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The Role of Resellers in Collecting LEGO

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Comments

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ It isn't us resellers saying that buyers set the market price, every Economics class in every University on Earth says it... (or at least any one that has sense)

    Keep in mind that I can get away with selling one or two such sets for 50% more than the "going rate", but as someone else said, if I had 100 of them, I'd have to lower my price to the market, or I'd never sell them all.

    Keep in mind that it took 2 months to move a single unit at that price, that would work out to just 6 units a year. That is a nice side income, but not much of a business.

    I have multiple Ninjago sets that I have hundreds of each set, rest assured I sell those for "market price", which is what they are really moving for every day. When I raise my price, they stop selling.

    Right now I have a mint condition 10143 in the original Lego shipping box, seals intact, nearly mark free, almost perfect. I also have a 10179 in mint condition, that one is mark free as far as I can tell, also in Lego shipping box.

    Both are really, really nice, 9.5/10 condition at least, both will command a superior price. Both will be shipped in large, double-wall heavy duty boxes (the boxes alone cost me $6 each to buy in bulk), and they will arrive in perfect condition to the buyers.

    I want $1,500 for the former, $3,000 for the latter, and I'll be happy to wait for my price. :) But I only have 1 of each, so I can wait. If I had a dozen of each, that would be a foolish thing to do.

    Just my 2 horses worth... ;)
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    edited June 2012
    ...If you (and other resellers who agree on the margin) are setting the price, in some sense--not in every sense- you are "forcing" people to buy at that price...
    I think this could, in some fantasy scenario or very short-term situation, be correct. In reality, however, this would/could almost never happen. What you effectively describe is a cartel. Collusion of cartels is virtually never sustainable based on commonly accepted game theory (ie the prisoner's dilemma); one member of the cartel is always going to undercut the other one to get ahead in the short term, regardless of whether or not it is in their best interest long term.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ Not to mention that such "cartel" action is illegal in most of the world...

    But you're right, someone always breaks, someone gets greedy, someone wants that extra sale...

    Also, it doesn't "force" people to buy at that price, they can choose not to buy. How many copies of 3450 are on the market? 2? Maybe 3? The prices being asked for a sealed copy of this set are quite high, but I don't have to buy them either... Sooner or later, someone will want one of them. It only takes someone with a different view of money to not care and buy one.

    http://www.brickset.com/detail/?Set=3450-1

    Keep in mind that David Beckham moved a lot of copies of Taj Mahal:
    http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-22/living/beckham.lego.sales_1_lego-group-lego-model-lego-headquarters?_s=PM:LIVING

    Do you really think he would care about spending $5,000 to buy a copy of that set, if he wanted it? He could easily buy 3450 without thinking twice, new and sealed, for a similar price.

    Are there many people in the world who can do that? More than you'd think... but perhaps less than we all wish. :)
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    edited June 2012
    ^That's exactly right, that no one is forced to buy at a certain price. It's not like we're talking food, water or gasoline here. It's a toy; an entirely and utterly discretionary purchase. If folks think the price is too high, they simply wont buy. No one is going to die because they couldn't afford Lego toys!
  • KulshanGirlKulshanGirl Member Posts: 67
    ^True that. No matter how many people want to pay how much for a retired set, there is going to be someone who wants the BEST one, a perfect one, on their doorstep tomorrow, at whatever cost. It might take a while, but it'll happen.

    (Dead horse is still dead!)
  • Brick_ObsessionBrick_Obsession in a "Brick" house - Calgary, AlbertaMember Posts: 656
    "(Dead horse is still dead!)"

    Really? I thought it was more than dead now, more like smashed to pulp and put in a can and ready to serve many a hungry dogs out here.

    Re-sellers give me a second chance at sets that I originally missed on. Based on that, it's up to me whether I want it bad enough to pay what the re-seller feels they want for the set.

    Nuff said!
  • AFFOL_Shellz_BellzAFFOL_Shellz_Bellz Member Posts: 1,263
    Reselling is all part of free enterprise imho, but at the same time I have to say I think sellers who put an item up for sale, on any site, which is readily available at lower prices make themselves look a bit, or a lot, foolish if they think buyers will pay their exhorbitant asking prices for their merchandise. I prefer the supply and demand pricing meaning starting with a reasonable price based on what the seller paid, what the average asking price in the market is, and let the market determine final selling price. Too simplistic? Probably, but it's still what I think is fair.

    Two years ago we found the Statue of Liberty #3450 at a garage sale for $20 with about 30 or so pieces missing. One of those pieces, a 2 x 2 sand green macaroni, cost $22.50 to replace because there were, at that time, only 5 for sale on bricklink throughout the world and only 2 in the USA. The cheapest today on bricklink is $30. A used #3450 set was selling on ebay at that time for close to and sometimes over $1,000 USD. It was a matter of supply and demand. I didn't hesitate to pay the price, because in the end that set cost us about $150 even after paying to have the instructions printed at FedEx/Kinko.
  • Pacific493Pacific493 Member Posts: 379
    Resellers have the right to do what they want, but its doesnt make them some gallant knights riding in too save the hobby.
    You are the only person saying that resellers are viewed as "gallant knights riding in too [sic] save the hobby."
    How many people here have used Bricklink to find parts for a MOC or to complete a childhood set? I have used BL and am extremely happy that it exists. We in America live in a free market and anyone who wants and can afford it can buy a LEGO set during the year and a half or more it is being produced. If you miss out and have to pay a premium to a reseller down the line, at least you still have the opportunity to do so thanks to Bricklink. If the item you want isn't listed at a price you are willing to pay you can still pass on the set, give in to your collecting instincts and buy the set on BL or you can use the inventory on BL to try and build the set from your loose parts and then just order the stickers if there are any.

    The role of resellers is to provide a person looking for LEGO a venue to do so. Like any other BUSINESS, resellers are investing capital, time and space to make a profit. Otherwise why would they be in business? Simple if you really think about it.
    I use Bricklink extensively to fill in the used sets that I sell. In fact, without Bricklink, I would not have a thriving business selling used sets. In the 6 years that I've been at this, I can count the number of sets on one hand that I have not been able to complete using Bricklink.

  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    Reselling is all part of free enterprise imho, but at the same time I have to say I think sellers who put an item up for sale, on any site, which is readily available at lower prices make themselves look a bit, or a lot, foolish if they think buyers will pay their exhorbitant asking prices for their merchandise. I prefer the supply and demand pricing meaning starting with a reasonable price based on what the seller paid, what the average asking price in the market is, and let the market determine final selling price. Too simplistic? Probably, but it's still what I think is fair.
    .
    Bingo. I especially appreciate the shocking use of the "F" word at the end.

    But you're right, someone always breaks, someone gets greedy, someone wants that extra sale...

    Also, it doesn't "force" people to buy at that price, they can choose not to buy.
    Regarding the first: I've never seen a reseller use the word "greed(y)" in a pejorative sense, so why now? Usually it's all "it's not greed it's just business I deserve to profit from my efforts." And truly, which is greedy: setting the price "too high" and waiting, or undercutting to make a sale? I know, it depends on x y and z... Regarding "force": it isn't a crass and mechanistic depiction (I.e. Seller = hammer, buyer = nail) or some Cold War relic of physical coercion I was trying to convey, merely that the reseller mantra "we don't set the prices too high, The Market takes them there" contains more ambiguity than is immediately evident.

    @nkx1 It is similar to a cartel, though I did not intend it that way. But also consider the language many resellers use when talking about waiting for the quick-flippers or the Johnny-come-lately's to sell off the initial stock before listing their own items at a price they deem worthy. A bit of colluding here, a bit of business there, laws and ethics are notoriously lost in that shadowland.
    ^ It isn't us resellers saying that buyers set the market price, every Economics class in every University on Earth says it... (or at least any one that has sense)
    Economics is not a unanimous field. Just like The Market, there are numerous competing theories proffered to explain the same phenomena.

    To defend @pvancil27 the whole "gallant/saint/whatever" thing got started when resellers asserted that they deserved thanks (and the money, duh). To some of us it seemed a tad hubristic. It then went through many versions, increasingly rhetorical. The plain point is that thanks may grease the wheels but money runs the machine, so resellers should not pretend they are in it for the grease.

    BL is absolutely wonderful. Period. But I think there are some people who treat it as a business and others who do it because they love it, profit or not. This latter group can be counted to do things they will never get paid for, like maintaining an encyclopedic inventory or detailing thousands of relationships between thousands of elements; they were doing this before Lego meant Big Money and they'll be doing it after. Sitting on a set is easy; parting it out, keeping it neat and clean, filling orders precisely and quickly... is not.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,207
    But also consider the language many resellers use when talking about waiting for the quick-flippers or the Johnny-come-lately's to sell off the initial stock before listing their own items at a price they deem worthy. A bit of colluding here, a bit of business there, laws and ethics are notoriously lost in that shadowland.
    Agreeing on standard / sound business principles is not colluding in my book. New sellers are getting advice from our uber-sellers here everyday in the Buying and Selling category discussions. But how they proceed is absolutely a function of the varying X,Y,Z, etc.
    To defend @pvancil27 the whole "gallant/saint/whatever" thing got started when resellers asserted that they deserved thanks (and the money, duh). To some of us it seemed a tad hubristic. It then went through many versions, increasingly rhetorical. The plain point is that thanks may grease the wheels but money runs the machine, so resellers should not pretend they are in it for the grease.
    Perhaps I overlooked it, but I don't recall any resellers asserting here that "they deserved thanks." Can someone point me to these posts?
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    Reselling is all part of free enterprise imho, but at the same time I have to say I think sellers who put an item up for sale, on any site, which is readily available at lower prices make themselves look a bit, or a lot, foolish if they think buyers will pay their exhorbitant asking prices for their merchandise. I prefer the supply and demand pricing meaning starting with a reasonable price based on what the seller paid, what the average asking price in the market is, and let the market determine final selling price. Too simplistic? Probably, but it's still what I think is fair.
    Often there are reasons for higher than normal prices. Much of the time higher priced auctions are meant for international bidders since added cost and risk is involved. LFT's example is another. By simply producing a more professional auction one can demand a greater price.

    Supply and demand does not determine a set or "reasonable" price. Rather its a scale representing how much product will move at different price levels. What the seller paid has absolutely nothing to do with it -- only what people are willing to pay.

    The only thing fair is two parties "agreeing" on a price. How can that be considered otherwise?
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,207
    FYI - I found the original "Resellers" discussion and have merged it with this new one.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    Would you rather find them "much overpriced" or not at all? Thank a reseller if you like having opportunities to get sets you missed out on while they were available.
    And:
    They could be available for less if not for the reseller though.
    No, they could not...

    Without resellers buying current production sets to sell after they are end-of-life, you couldn't get retired sets new in the box for anything near reasonable prices.

    The very few that would exist would be personal collection items that people decided to sell rather than keep.

    Resellers keep aftermarket prices lower than they otherwise would be.
    it's nothing but profiteering.
    And what is it that you're doing when you collect your paycheck every two weeks?

    Profiteering is not a dirty word, that is how money and economies work.
    Doesn't mean I'm personally going to thank them for trying to make a profit on me ;)
    You should thank them... The more supply a reseller buys to sell on after a set EOLs, the lower the price in the aftermarket.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^ It isn't us resellers saying that buyers set the market price, every Economics class in every University on Earth says it... (or at least any one that has sense)

    Keep in mind that I can get away with selling one or two such sets for 50% more than the "going rate", but as someone else said, if I had 100 of them, I'd have to lower my price to the market, or I'd never sell them all.

    Keep in mind that it took 2 months to move a single unit at that price, that would work out to just 6 units a year. That is a nice side income, but not much of a business.

    I have multiple Ninjago sets that I have hundreds of each set, rest assured I sell those for "market price", which is what they are really moving for every day. When I raise my price, they stop selling.

    Right now I have a mint condition 10143 in the original Lego shipping box, seals intact, nearly mark free, almost perfect. I also have a 10179 in mint condition, that one is mark free as far as I can tell, also in Lego shipping box.

    Both are really, really nice, 9.5/10 condition at least, both will command a superior price. Both will be shipped in large, double-wall heavy duty boxes (the boxes alone cost me $6 each to buy in bulk), and they will arrive in perfect condition to the buyers.

    I want $1,500 for the former, $3,000 for the latter, and I'll be happy to wait for my price. :) But I only have 1 of each, so I can wait. If I had a dozen of each, that would be a foolish thing to do.

    Just my 2 horses worth... ;)
    We own 2 businesses and we provide a great level of service. Our clients will pay more for the same product they can get anywhere, but rather come to our store because we provide a superior service. We can't make everyone happy, but that's business.

    You will sell your sets at your asking price eventually.

    Did you know Death Star II was featured in an episode of The Big Bang Theory?

  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,207
    Thanks @Brickarmor. I obviously missed those two sentiments.

    That being said, I still stand by my assertion that the attitude that resellers as a whole thought they were "gallant white knights of heroism goodness", etc. was a hyperbolized machination of someone unwilling or unable to challenge those ideas presented thoughtfully / rationally / convincingly.
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,923
    Reselling is all part of free enterprise imho, but at the same time I have to say I think sellers who put an item up for sale, on any site, which is readily available at lower prices make themselves look a bit, or a lot, foolish if they think buyers will pay their exhorbitant asking prices for their merchandise.
    This reminds me of something. A few years back I had posted a sealed 7675 (AT-TE) on eBay for $120. This is while they were still at Wal-Mart for $90. No bids, only emails for people asking why I would charge $30 more for something available in the stores. Constant emails.

    Yes - I was looking to make a small profit to buy more sets for my collection.

    So I de-listed and said to myself, let's shove them in a closet for a few years. So know it's 2012, and these sell sealed for $200 consistently, and may go even higher yet. If I listed one now for $120, it'd be gone in less than an hour.

    Stupid is as stupid does. Time and patience matters most.

  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    Thanks @Brickarmor. I obviously missed those two sentiments.

    That being said, I still stand by my assertion that the attitude that resellers as a whole thought they were "gallant white knights of heroism goodness", etc. was a hyperbolized machination of someone unwilling or unable to challenge those ideas presented thoughtfully / rationally / convincingly.
    My rationality gets lost when points I make and reasonable questions I ask get overlooked. Like the fact you called my posting "simply troll-like behavior." This was of course in response to using something a reseller himself said to argue against one of the many things that was used against my argument. I don't consider that "troll-like behavior" but hey, you are the admin and if you say it is then so be it. But I do want to know how that can be considered "troll-like behavior" while again, being told that I'm just "butt hurt" and then the page of doodad stories and horse beating jokes isn't. If I went into the secondary value thread and saw them posting about DS and FB hanging around too long and affecting their aftermarket value, wouldn't you considered it pretty troll like If I posted "Oh, beating this dead horse again" since its been talked about 15 times the past month already. Those posts added nothing to the discussion, at all, and yet they are fine.

    If you want to say I'm not thoughtful, rational or convincing, that's fine. But there are a lot of other posts in this thread that are as equally unthoughtful, rational and convincing as any I've posted, and I don't see you saying a thing you any of them. @Brickarmor pointed a couple cases you said you missed, and your response was still a "yea but." I made the white knights out to save the hobby comment after countless people said over and over that resellers do nothing to hurt the hobby, in that no one loses. Here's the thing, people do lose, When I pointed out the ways people do lose, I was told "little jimmy" was a fictional thing and completely hypothetical. Guess what, many of the counter arguments themselves are hypothetical too, I just didn't use that argument against them because its lame and that DOES lead to circular logic. For example everyone says "resellers stock helps keep the aftermarket prices low" but you can not prove that. You cant prove it because you can not re-do a specific set at a specific time frame again. For example, saying "if there were more UCS MF's out there, the price would be lower" is just as hypothetical. Those same people who own it now that wouldn't had the resellers got them would be aftermarket consumers looking for the product now themselves, meaning a larger buyer market. Hell the entire aftermarket value thread is nothing but theoretical guessing, it doesn't devalue its purpose though. Yea, I don't have a video of a kid standing in a Lego isle crying cause he missed out on a Lego set, it doesn't devalue the point that overbuying of mass stock does hurt people.

    People say the free market decides itself, but then you had a reseller tell you he set a price and stuck to it. I'll be very clear here, since the cartel argument was used. It's not price fixing, price fixing would be if all the resellers together agreed to sell them at 1500. It is setting a high cap on the market, and by refusing to go any lower, it does have a prolonged effect on the market. He said the avg for it was 900, by selling it for 1500, It moved that average up. That is part of the marketplace and the right of any seller to do that. And it's not a bad thing in and of itself, but its an example of the market not being allowed to set itself. People argued that it was because a person could choose not to pay that. And that is true, but it also means that a person's only options are buy or don't, not saying "well I think 1200 is fair" and paying that, which is how the secondary market is supposed to work.

    I point out resellers change the way hobbyists value things. And they do, and this is something I myself have changed with over the years because of. I'd love to get a Green Lantern minifig for a friend of mine. He's a huge Green Lantern fan, has the tattoos, the room filled with stuff, the whole nine yards. Only thing I know he doesn't have is the Mini fig. I'd love to surprise him with one. I don't remember how much that thing sold for but I remember it was a decent bit. If I were to try and trade for one, and only offer what stuff I have now (some lose open fairly current sets) or say a new sealed X Wing, people would laugh me off the boards, because its an unfair deal. It didn't used to be that way, now a days everything is value based, there is little to almost no thought put into the human value of anything. And that's fine, I am not a fan of a hobby that is business like in its approach. That the point of a hobby, to have a fun diversion. In this case, its at the point of why trade sets at all? With how people value things, its smarter to just list them on BL/epay and use the money to buy what you want. I'm sorry but that kills an aspect of the hobby to me. When you were a kid you traded baseball cards, you traded them one for one, didn't care much what the value was, you just knew he had one you wanted and you had one he wanted. You didn't care if one was worth a quarter and the other was worth a dollar, you just traded them cause it made everyone happy. That aspect is lost when you get resellers involved.

    When resellers try and take advantage of new people by offing them really bad deals, it sours people on the hobby. My first post was a trading thread. My first two offers were from resellers here, both offering me pretty lousy packages. I knew enough to not get hung out to dry but some people don't. Those people will get screwed over, look back and have a bad opinion of the hobby and be jaded. I mean I gave a factual example of this (Except for the fact I refused to publicly call out the specific people. If you really want the names yellow I can send you screen caps of my pm box as I still have them.) which was then used to tell me I'm just mad and bitter because of that. Those are the type of arguments I don't know how you want me to respond too.

    There's other stuff too, but I don't see the point in trying to bring more things into the convo since it will just be said I'm changing my argument again. I don't think resellers are bad people on the whole, I do think some show selfish and greedy tendencies which I will admit are two personality traits I really dislike in people.

    If if any of this is troll-like, please let me know, Its not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have a decent discussion on a topic. I'm not trying to change peoples minds, you cant do that. I'm just stating my point of view (Or opinion for the person who will no doubt try and say I'm saying everything is fact) and would like to see reasonable responses. Way more people have sat here and said "NO NO NO YOUR WRONG!!!" then "hey, I get where you are coming from, I disagree and here's why:" I instead get told that I'm beating dead horses, or that I'm butt hurt, or that I didn't buy the red doodad in time, or that I sound like a commie." As I asked before, PLEASE tell me how any of those are not trollish, and that you cant understand how that stuff would make me frustrated.

    Patrick
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    "He's dead Jim"
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    The one thing that stood out in the post above ^^ was that in the "good old days" you could do unfair trades and it was fine before we all became Lego capitalists, and now we know the market value of the items making a trade that doesn't balance value isn't right anymore. For me a bad deal was always a bad deal, but back then maybe you could be the one making the unfair deals and it didn't matter because we didn't weigh up true worth.
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890

    Guess what, many of the counter arguments themselves are hypothetical too, I just didn't use that argument against them because its lame and that DOES lead to circular logic. For example everyone says "resellers stock helps keep the aftermarket prices low" but you can not prove that. You cant prove it because you can not re-do a specific set at a specific time frame again. For example, saying "if there were more UCS MF's out there, the price would be lower" is just as hypothetical.
    I'm seriously not sure if this is a joke or what, but this statement is so completely wrong I don't even know what to say. You can argue lots of things, but this isn't one of them.

    I also can't believe you're comparing naive kids trading baseball cards of dubious worth to intelligent adults collecting Lego of relatively massive worth. I'm sorry, if I have something worth $100, and you have something worth $50, why on earth would I trade or give it to you? If you were my best friend, and I was giving you a gift or wanting to do you a massive favor, fine. But a complete stranger on an internet message board? You have to be kidding me. If you want hand outs, apply for welfare. If resellers didn't exist, my entire Lego collection would be worth considerably more than it is now, and there's even less of a chance I'd be giving it away to some charity case on an internet message board.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    The one thing that stood out in the post above ^^ was that in the "good old days" you could do unfair trades and it was fine before we all became Lego capitalists, and now we know the market value of the items making a trade that doesn't balance value isn't right anymore. For me a bad deal was always a bad deal, but back then maybe you could be the one making the unfair deals and it didn't matter because we didn't weigh up true worth.
    A fair point, not what I meant for it to come across as but I can see how it could be taken that way. I meant it more in the light of people took care of each other. In that case yes I might have gotten the better items, but in the future I'd help that person out (maybe sending them another new set or two coming out they want.) I was for sure not trying to be "I'm just mad because I don't get only good deals anymore." It's harder to take care of others when you don't know them, that's part of being new to a community and finding a place within it. I wouldn't just ship something blindly to someone here myself. But I've had several good deals with people here. If one of them said to me "hey pat, I really want your loose Obi's UCS but don't really have anything you want" I'd like to think I'd try to help them out. Maybe I'd take if off the list and set it aside until they got something I needed, or If I knew them and trusted them enough (and in one case I would as she has a great rep here plus I had a great dealing with her) I'd probably just send it to her and say "just hook me up with something in the future whenever." I don't think that's 100% dead, but I do think its much rarer, and its also to get to the point of trusting people to do that kind of thing is harder because people have to be guarded, and some of that guard is not wanting people to take advantage of your kindness to turn around and profit. It's like when LFT said if I had a 50$ CC he;s be happy to take it. I'm sure he would, but I'd also never offer him that kind of deal because I think he'd just turn around and resell it which totally ruins the point of why I offered it cheap.

    I hope that explains it better.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,207
    @pvancil27 - Initially, I felt you were pulling the "Thank Me" comments out of thin air. I was wrong and thanks go to @brickarmor for putting in the effort to show me so. But two or three references out of hundreds of posts still tells me that these were minor comments and should be dwarfed by the sheer volume of other, more valuable comments. I was frustrated that you continued to attack those few minor comments while ignoring all the more legitimate / rational / thoughtful / convincing points (yes, I was talking about their points not your behavior). Throw in the fact that you supposedly were "walking away" a couple of times only to come back in making the same arguments tells me that you might just want to argue. And I stand by my opinion that that kind of behavior is troll-like. I certainly meant no offense and do very much apologize if any were taken. That being said, I stand by my posts.

    Back on topic...

    I too would like a Green Lantern minifig but will have to wait until they release a Green Lantern set. I'm certainly a collector but not so much to pay those rates.

    As for the reseller debate, I still think @dougts and @meyerc13 said it best above so I'm not sure I have much more to add.
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    edited June 2012
    ^^ I think there are plenty of people like that here. There are also plenty that aren't. But the fact that a reseller market exists has nothing to do with that. Like we've said a million times, the lack of resellers would drive prices up immensely, making it even less likely to find people willing to do this. Everyone knows what the value of their stuff is, if they're willing to do trades and whatnot to help out other fellow collectors they've come to know, that's great. But if they could sell every set they'd be dealing with for $3000 instead, I'm pretty sure at some point they all would take the money and run. I dare say there is not one here or anywhere willing to sell a MF to someone for $500, friend or not. That would just be crazy and irresponsible (to yourself and your family) to throw away $1500.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Ok, here we go... ;)
    But I do want to know how that can be considered "troll-like behavior" while again, being told that I'm just "butt hurt" and then the page of doodad stories and horse beating jokes isn't.
    Because the Doodad story and horse jokes are funny, and a fair reply to the general thread...

    That is why they aren't troll behavior, they are honest replies that added to the conversation, even if only in a funny way.

    I'm STILL laughing at the "hey look, dead horses, I beat them" line, that is funny... :) The picture of the Lego troll with the large hammer standing over a Lego horse on its side, also laugh out loud funny...
    If I went into the secondary value thread and saw them posting about DS and FB hanging around too long and affecting their aftermarket value, wouldn't you considered it pretty troll like If I posted "Oh, beating this dead horse again" since its been talked about 15 times the past month already. Those posts added nothing to the discussion, at all, and yet they are fine.
    Actually, that isn't an unfair point... (sorry for the double negative, my 5th grade grammar teacher is rolling her eyes right now)

    We do perhaps talk about FB and DS too much, less so recently, but yes, that thread has lots of dead horses in it.
    I made the white knights out to save the hobby comment after countless people said over and over that resellers do nothing to hurt the hobby, in that no one loses. Here's the thing, people do lose
    You keep saying that, the thing is, I believe that the general belief around here is that we all disagree with your point.

    You of course may have your opinion, and that's fine. We simply disagree. It seems like you're being flogged because you have 20 people telling you that you're wrong, and you don't have 20 people defending you, so it looks like you're outnumbered, which you are.

    Have you stopped to consider that if so many people posting disagree with you, perhaps... you might be the one who might be mistaken?
    When I pointed out the ways people do lose, I was told "little jimmy" was a fictional thing and completely hypothetical.
    Because he is, the "real" little jimmy might well not get that about to be retired set at 50% off, so instead his mom/dad will just buy him another Lego set.

    End result, "little jimmy" goes home with a Lego set and is ultimately happy.
    For example everyone says "resellers stock helps keep the aftermarket prices low" but you can not prove that.
    I don't think it needs to be proven, it is just a fact. Economics 101 would teach anyone that.

    I would have a hard time proving gravity exists by just typing words on this forum, but we all agree it does.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    People say the free market decides itself, but then you had a reseller tell you he set a price and stuck to it.
    Their are outliers in every free market, but most of the volume will be found clustered together in a tight trading range.

    Just look at the 6 month selling history of Bricklink for many sets, the high and low selling prices vary by quite a bit. Look at the 30 day closed auction history on eBay for a given set, many people get a great deal, others overpay... Somewhere in the middle, is the "average" price, but very little in this world is "average".

    For example, the average family might have 2.5 kids, but I have never actually met one of them. (kinda hard to have half a kid)
    I'll be very clear here, since the cartel argument was used. It's not price fixing, price fixing would be if all the resellers together agreed to sell them at 1500. It is setting a high cap on the market, and by refusing to go any lower, it does have a prolonged effect on the market. He said the avg for it was 900, by selling it for 1500, It moved that average up.
    I'm going to have to disagree with you here... It might move the average up, but it doesn't really affect the overall market.

    I can go list Death Star right now for $1,999, and that brings up the average and "sets a high cap on the market", but do you really think it makes a lick of difference when the set is still for sale everywhere for $399?

    Asking prices and selling prices are two very different things.
    That is part of the marketplace and the right of any seller to do that. And it's not a bad thing in and of itself, but its an example of the market not being allowed to set itself.
    This is where, to be blunt (but not trying to be rude), you're simply in error.

    It is a perfect example of the market being allowed to set itself. I'm putting an item out there into the market for the price I want, it will either sell, showing there to be a market at that price, or it won't, showing there to NOT be a market at that price.

    If it doesn't sell, I can either choose to stay out of the market, or lower my price to come down into the market.

    The market is set by the buyers, not the sellers, this is known economics and it is just how it works.

    A perfect example of this is house sales... Listings do not set the market, Real Estate Agents do not set the "value" or "price" of a house based only on other listings on the market, what they really look at are sold comps, what has actually sold over the past few months. People can list their house for anything, means very little, what matters is what has actually gone to closing.

    The only real effect listings have on the market is to show general trends, are the prices moving up or down... Same thing for the Price Guide on Bricklink, look at the 6 month history compared to the current listings, that will tell you if prices are flat, going up, or going down...
    People argued that it was because a person could choose not to pay that. And that is true, but it also means that a person's only options are buy or don't, not saying "well I think 1200 is fair" and paying that, which is how the secondary market is supposed to work.
    You are mistaken on how the secondary market is "supposed to work", I think this is where the confusion is...

    You think the buyer gets to tell the seller "well I think 1200 is fair", and gets to buy it for that. If it worked that way, why not just say it is worth $5?

    Not buying, is a perfectly reasonable option... If no one buys for long enough, the sellers will lower their price sooner or later.

    Besides, "not buying" isn't the only other option, because I wasn't the only person on Earth with this set. Someone who thinks I'm asking too much, can find a seller asking less.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I point out resellers change the way hobbyists value things.
    No, the market demand is what does that, not resellers.

    The reason resellers of Lego exist is because the product has demand, has value, and that value and demand remain after TLG discontinues a set.

    Lego would not just drop in value if resellers went away, the demand would remain, supply would dry up, prices would jump sky-high.

    Before you said that we had no "proof" that this would happen. We don't require proof, it is a fact and clear based on the world around us that this would happen. Just like I don't require proof that throwing a large Lego set across the room would smash it into a hundred separate parts, I don't require proof that this above is true.

    It just is.
    It didn't used to be that way, now a days everything is value based, there is little to almost no thought put into the human value of anything.
    Ahh, a classic "good ol' days" line...

    The thing is, you keep forgetting supply and demand. You need a hobby that has tons of supply, little demand, and then you'd get what you want.

    Lego isn't it...

    Maybe it was in the 90s when Lego produced tons of junk sets, perhaps it will be again some day in the future.

    Consider Beany Babies... 10 years ago those were quite valuable, being traded back and forth on eBay like prized valuables...

    Today, they are worth far less than retail price, a dollar each maybe...

    So you could go collect those, trade them around, and not worry about it being "value based".
    In this case, its at the point of why trade sets at all? With how people value things, its smarter to just list them on BL/epay and use the money to buy what you want.
    Which is probably what you should do... :)

    There are exceptions of course... I have done deals on here for sets at less than their BL value, as a favor to Brickset members... A few months ago, I had 3 new Hogwarts Express sets, the retail boxes were damaged, but the sets were still brand new. Sold them for 30% under Bricklink prices here... Took maybe 30 minutes to move all 3.

    Of course, nothing stops those buyers from turning around and selling them for full price on Bricklink. Which is the flaw in your "just do good for humanity" plan...

    You once said, if you found a Cafe Corner for $50, you'd rather sell it for $50 to another collector and let him/her enjoy it, rather than make $800 selling it.

    Fair enough, lets say you did that. The fact that you paid $50 means nothing, it is worth $800, you just WAY underpaid... The "collector" who bought it, might well enjoy it for a month, until he/she notices that it can be sold and they can buy a brand new copy of FB, GE, PS, and TH for the value of that set.

    So that collector goes and sells it for full price. Then what?

    The "pay it forward" matra works in small scale, and it works at the edges, but it does not work in large scale, and Lego is currently a large scale hobby.

    I buy and sell a lot of Lego. I also do trades and deals here. I've gotten some very good deals here and given some back. But those are side deals unrelated to the bulk of my Lego deals.
    I'm sorry but that kills an aspect of the hobby to me. When you were a kid you traded baseball cards, you traded them one for one, didn't care much what the value was, you just knew he had one you wanted and you had one he wanted. You didn't care if one was worth a quarter and the other was worth a dollar, you just traded them cause it made everyone happy. That aspect is lost when you get resellers involved.
    I actually agree with you here... When building sets, I often find myself thinking "boy this set will be worth a lot one way". I agree that takes something away from it...

    Then again, it is also paying for all of my sets, so I can't really complain. :)

    Another factor is this... When you were 10 years old trading baseball cards, you didn't have bills to pay... I'm not 10 years old, I'm 36 years old, I have a mortgage, bills, kids to pay for, a wife to keep happy, etc.

    So it can't "just be a fun hobby" anymore... It either has to support itself, or I have to keep it very small scale. So I resell to make money, because I can't mail "good feelings" to the mortgage company. :)
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    edited June 2012
    Since I had one of the original "thank a reseller" comments I feel it might be in order to explain. I thought the comment stood on its own merits. I wasn't literally saying, "oh you should go run out and thank the reseller for having a set you can't get otherwise." It was more of a rhetorical sort of comment. I also don't think it was totally thoughtless or flip. Mostly a succinct statement. Could I have elaborated? Sure. Did I accomplish the same general sentiment that has been repeated here ad nauseum? I think so.

    I do resell and the only thanks I really care about is you buying the product and leaving me positive feedback (if any at all). That said, I have had many dozens of people that have actually thanked me in feedback for a variety of reasons. I've never had someone leave feedback and say "it's terrible I had to pay this price for this set."

    For what it is worth, if you need a human decency sort of story from a reseller. I had a friend a few years ago that also sold LEGO. He had a slip up and ended up selling something he thought he had in his inventory but didn't. It was close to Christmas and this was a Christmas present for the customer's son. He and I really didn't know each other very well outside of some interactions on the forums, but he felt he could trust me and asked if I had a copy of the set that I would be willing to ship to the mom if he just sent me the money for it. I did. It was my only copy of the set and it was a fair profit, but nothing crazy. I didn't want some kid to be disappointed for Christmas so I mailed it to the mom, she got it in time and all parties were happy. See, we do have hearts sometimes.

    I don't do this to be altruistic, however, I have often done nice things for people as a seller. Throwing in a CMF here and there. Adding a small set to someones larger order just to say thanks. It is as much a fun "hobby" of mine to sell on the side as it is an investment. I don't "need" the money to pay bills (but seriously, who couldn't use extra cash Jimmy Fallon). The hobby is self sustaining which keeps my wife happier than she would be otherwise. So it's fun for me. I really don't have time to build sets so I don't collect much for myself. However I do have four 18 gallon tubs with pieces still in their bags (just open the boxes and dump them in) for my kids one day. I will continue to add to that "collection" with sets I want to keep.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    ^^ I think there are plenty of people like that here. There are also plenty that aren't. But the fact that a reseller market exists has nothing to do with that. Like we've said a million times, the lack of resellers would drive prices up immensely, making it even less likely to find people willing to do this. Everyone knows what the value of their stuff is, if they're willing to do trades and whatnot to help out other fellow collectors they've come to know, that's great. But if they could sell every set they'd be dealing with for $3000 instead, I'm pretty sure at some point they all would take the money and run. I dare say there is not one here or anywhere willing to sell a MF to someone for $500, friend or not. That would just be crazy and irresponsible (to yourself and your family) to throw away $1500.
    Like i said, I'm sure there are people like that here. I didn't use it as a argument at first because you can not prove or disprove it, but you cant point to any specific example of a set being regulated based on resellers having more stock. That would actually be what happens within the market IF all those resellers listed their product starting the day items go out of market. By sitting on stock for a specific time frame or till it hits a specific price point within the market, you are not actually keeping thing cost controlled, but rather determining the point in the market at which stock becomes available. You can argue that by selling a 100$ set for 200$, you are keeping that set from reaching 300$ had you not had your stock. However you cant say that the price wouldn't have stayed down had that stock not been preemptively removed from the market in the first place, as the number of buyers on the aftermarket would also be smaller.

    As LFT said, Eco 101 teaches more product = less demand, but thats also from a manufacturing POV. As you move up into more advanced economics you learn that its more complex then supply+demand=price. The complexities of that market are what create bubbles. The more people who do it, the less everyone makes, which doesnt work when people are trying to set a specific price. the undercutting is always what leads to the bubble busting. It's exactly what happened with tech stocks in the late 90s and housing in 2008.

    I asked earlier that if sellers cant affect the production rates, can they really affect the aftermarket rate. Again in the Aftermarket thread, I've seen it argued that the DS at this point is bought by mostly resellers as everyone who wants one has one. If we assume this is correct, then resellers are in fact buying enough product that lego sees it being worth their while to produce the set, and as such yes, the Reseller have had an impact on production, which in turn will impact the future aftermarket.

    As for the 500$ MF thing, I disagree and agree. You are 100% correct that from a purely financial standpoint selling the MF to anyone for 1/4 of its value is irresponsible. For a humanistic standpoint, I'd way more personal satisfaction out of the 500$ and knowing I made someone incredibly happy then I would out of anything that extra 1500$ could buy. I understand that's not how most of the world thinks, and I understand that where most people's POV on this subject comes from, is from money. They see it straight forward as "resellers save me money, money is good, therefor resellers are good." I'm looking at from non-fiscal ways as well, I just dont have the capability to ignore the ethical aspects in the name of dollar value.

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    @pvancil27 - Initially, I felt you were pulling the "Thank Me" comments out of thin air. I was wrong and thanks go to @brickarmor for putting in the effort to show me so. But two or three references out of hundreds of posts still tells me that these were minor comments and should be dwarfed by the sheer volume of other, more valuable comments. I was frustrated that you continued to attack those few minor comments while ignoring all the more legitimate / rational / thoughtful / convincing points (yes, I was talking about their points not your behavior). Throw in the fact that you supposedly were "walking away" a couple of times only to come back in making the same arguments tells me that you might just want to argue. And I stand by my opinion that that kind of behavior is troll-like. I certainly meant no offense and do very much apologize if any were taken. That being said, I stand by my posts.

    Back on topic...

    I too would like a Green Lantern minifig but will have to wait until they release a Green Lantern set. I'm certainly a collector but not so much to pay those rates.

    As for the reseller debate, I still think @dougts and @meyerc13 said it best above so I'm not sure I have much more to add.
    Don't feel bad for missing a sentence here and there. If you now anything about the passage of our Health Care Bill you would know that most of the people that voted for it didn't bother to read it :)

  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    @pvancil27 - Initially, I felt you were pulling the "Thank Me" comments out of thin air. I was wrong and thanks go to @brickarmor for putting in the effort to show me so. But two or three references out of hundreds of posts still tells me that these were minor comments and should be dwarfed by the sheer volume of other, more valuable comments. I was frustrated that you continued to attack those few minor comments while ignoring all the more legitimate / rational / thoughtful / convincing points (yes, I was talking about their points not your behavior). Throw in the fact that you supposedly were "walking away" a couple of times only to come back in making the same arguments tells me that you might just want to argue. And I stand by my opinion that that kind of behavior is troll-like. I certainly meant no offense and do very much apologize if any were taken. That being said, I stand by my posts.

    Back on topic...

    I too would like a Green Lantern minifig but will have to wait until they release a Green Lantern set. I'm certainly a collector but not so much to pay those rates.

    As for the reseller debate, I still think @dougts and @meyerc13 said it best above so I'm not sure I have much more to add.
    I did say I was walking away, and probably should have. but when I see people attacking me personally and not any aspect of my point, I do find that hard to walk away from. SO in that aspect, I as well am sorry. I will try and be more thoughtful and less emotional when I post about this or any other topic in the future in an effort to keep any posts from coming across as troll-like in the future. One thing I would like to know, and if you want to tell me privately in a PM that's fine as I dont really want to derail this topic more then it already has been, is why the posts I asked about are not considered trolling in nature.
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890

    If if any of this is troll-like, please let me know, Its not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to have a decent discussion on a topic. I'm not trying to change peoples minds, you cant do that. I'm just stating my point of view (Or opinion for the person who will no doubt try and say I'm saying everything is fact) and would like to see reasonable responses. Way more people have sat here and said "NO NO NO YOUR WRONG!!!" then "hey, I get where you are coming from, I disagree and here's why:" I instead get told that I'm beating dead horses, or that I'm butt hurt, or that I didn't buy the red doodad in time, or that I sound like a commie." As I asked before, PLEASE tell me how any of those are not trollish, and that you cant understand how that stuff would make me frustrated.
    I would consider continuously disregarding proven Economic principles as trollish behavior, as well as continuously declaring as fact non-existent hypothetical events that fit your argument. When you have an argument based on even one fact that shows how the overall reseller community hurts anyone, we will listen.

    I also find it humorous that you keep bringing up these bad deals you were offered on the board here. How do you know they were bad deals, and why do you care? You seem to want to live in a world where everything has the same value, so what do you care if someone offered you something of lesser value? You just want to trade right? Who cares what it's all worth? What if the deal were reversed and you were getting the better deal? The fact that you keep making such a big deal about this only seems to reinforce all of our points, and lessen yours.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    If anyone on here wants to feel better about themselves, they can sell me their 6211 for thirty quid, and I will build and display it....no-one? Where's the humanity in here? :-p
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    LFT: its mostly we agree to disagree, and thats fair enough. The only point I will argue is:
    Because he is, the "real" little jimmy might well not get that about to be retired set at 50% off, so instead his mom/dad will just buy him another Lego set.

    End result, "little jimmy" goes home with a Lego set and is ultimately happy.
    You gave an example of you yourself giving a very specific set to a kid that was in the store looking for that set. I said What if the mom and her kid got there 5 mins later, Or what if she didnt think you were a stocker and ask if she could have one. That kid goes home without one. It happens. I know everyone wants to write little jimmy off as a figment of my imagination, but that kind of thing happens.

    Also I 100% understand the wife. kids, bills thing. And I've said plenty of times that if you are buying a few sets here and there to help fund the hobby, that in and of itself is not a bad thing. I get you cant pay a mortgage with good feeling, in 2008 when I lost my job I lost my condo, my car and pretty much everything else I had. Everything I had left fit in a 5X5 storage unit while I either slept in my car (before I turned it back over to the dealer) or on a friends floor. If good feelings paid bills i'd be in great shape. But if you have to start changing a hobby into a business to support it or yourself, you might be living beyond your means.

  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890

    As for the 500$ MF thing, I disagree and agree. You are 100% correct that from a purely financial standpoint selling the MF to anyone for 1/4 of its value is irresponsible. For a humanistic standpoint, I'd way more personal satisfaction out of the 500$ and knowing I made someone incredibly happy then I would out of anything that extra 1500$ could buy. I understand that's not how most of the world thinks, and I understand that where most people's POV on this subject comes from, is from money. They see it straight forward as "resellers save me money, money is good, therefor resellers are good." I'm looking at from non-fiscal ways as well, I just dont have the capability to ignore the ethical aspects in the name of dollar value.
    If I won Powerball tomorrow, I would be the first person to do this. I would literally travel around the country giving Lego away, and I would love it. However, that's not a realistic goal for me in life right now. :)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    This is all very ammusing to me. I would love to go anywhere and convince them to sell me anything at or below the cost to them. "Wouldn't you feel better selling me this car for exactly what you paid for it to help a fellow out?" I think I am going to try a similar approach today when I take my family out to dinner tonight. We all love food right?
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588

    As for the 500$ MF thing, I disagree and agree. You are 100% correct that from a purely financial standpoint selling the MF to anyone for 1/4 of its value is irresponsible. For a humanistic standpoint, I'd way more personal satisfaction out of the 500$ and knowing I made someone incredibly happy then I would out of anything that extra 1500$ could buy. I understand that's not how most of the world thinks, and I understand that where most people's POV on this subject comes from, is from money. They see it straight forward as "resellers save me money, money is good, therefor resellers are good." I'm looking at from non-fiscal ways as well, I just dont have the capability to ignore the ethical aspects in the name of dollar value.
    If I won Powerball tomorrow, I would be the first person to do this. I would literally travel around the country giving Lego away, and I would love it. However, that's not a realistic goal for me in life right now. :)
    Same thing for me. I dont have the money and would still do it. That said, If i didnt know someone who really wanted the MF and that I trusted wouldnt turn around and just sell it themselves, I would for sure get a good value for it. I still might give someone a decent deal (let say I'd trade it for a DS, SSD and IS. Thats a really good trade for the person getting the falcon and would make me very happy in the deal. everyone wins.

    It would be pretty fun too buy out bricklink of product and give it away wouldnt it.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Fantastic. Im sure everyone would be in a charitible mood once they have won millions. I know people that have no money, yet donate their time and whatever little money they have to help those who are less fortunate. What you should do is do note much of your collection to those who can't afford Legos. I will wait to read about it in the papers...until then.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    *donate
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    I don't think you are necessarily living beyond your means just to have a hobby that pays and you rely on it as a second income, as long as it is reliable as a second source of income. If it works then you're not being financially reckless. Once again it seems like envy and and in a roundabout way you're calling people greedy by being resellers.

    A lot of people live beyond their means, have no savings of any kind, maybe lose their jobs and are literally 2 pay days from losing their house/car etc, are they the ones who live beyond their means? For some a measure of their wealth is not what they own, but how much they are approved to borrow.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I have had my differences with fellow Brickset members, the latest being with that Evil reseller Darth Texas. It was over a miscommunication. Now we joke with each other. It happens alot in here. Don't sweat it unless someone is attacking you on a personal level. There are enough moderators that will remedy the situation :)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    @monkeyhanger

    I agree , hence my sarcasm.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    @monkeyhanger

    I agree , hence my sarcasm.
    I get your point. I actually do a lot of charity work on the side because I dont have money to flatly donate it. I will say that if I ever decide to stop collecting I'd rather donate my collection to a charity like a battered womans shelter or a Childrens hospital where the items can be used and enjoyed rather then just cashing out and taking my money elsewhere. (yea, I'm a pretty severe idealist.)
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    edited June 2012
    Every year here at work we have one of those charity Christmas Trees with the tags on it, where poor kids write something down that they want. Every year there is always the one kid who writes 'Star Wars Lego'. And every year that kid gets a big set worth double the spending limit they give, that I got for 40%-75% off at some point earlier in the year. Until I win powerball, that's all I got. :)

    And if little Jimmy missed out on that set because I snagged it first, screw little Jimmy. ;)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    A great parody would be someone using the Cantina scene to make fun of the role of resellers in the Lego community.

    Pvancil turns to brickarmor and says "you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villany" as they look over onto a bunch of lights that are blinking Ebay and Bricklink or every other place to buy Lego on the secondary market.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    Very awesome gesture. The Christmas tree tags are one thing I've never done. maybe this year.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,207
    ^ Just to close the loop on this off topic tangent...

    I'm definitely no Van Helsing, so I'll rely on Wikipedia to guide you on trolling.

    And yes, I'd agree that name calling and personal insults are also troll-like. The doodahs and horse beatings, however, were just funny. :o)

    By the way, your long post above was excellent and is exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping we'd see in this discussion.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Ok. So we are done. If you haven't read most of my comments in the past I tend to be very facetious and I hope that nothing that I say offends.

    It is obvious the dead horse has been beaten, but maybe it's like a pinata and the more you beat it, the more treasures will spill out

  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    ^ I think you're close, but more like the scene after the treasures spill out and there are 20 kids beating each other silly to grab as many as possible. ;)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^ I think you're close, but more like the scene after the treasures spill out and there are 20 kids beating each other silly to grab as many as possible. ;)
    I have seen it happen before. Black Friday sales and one time waiting in front of target for an exclusive star Wars figure. The doors opened and people ran to the Star Wars aisle. One guy slipped and fell. All the exclusives were being handed out at the door, but everyone was in such a rush they didn't notice.

  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,270
    So far in this thread I have agreed with pretty much everything LFT has said. But I do believe in some cases (definitely not all) this quote is false.
    Besides, "not buying" isn't the only other option, because I wasn't the only person on Earth with this set. Someone who thinks I'm asking too much, can find a seller asking less.
    Here is my example. The Virgin Atlantic Glider set 4442. I sourced some of these when they came out and was able to provide at cost a few members here with them and then I sold a few on ebay. The first 2 I sold on ebay sold within the first 2 days of them being up at $55.99. The third I reposted for a few weeks and had someone contact me asking to lower the price. At the time I was the only person in the US selling one on ebay or BL and I still am, and there were only 2 other people at all on ebay selling them. I didn't repost it on ebay but then put it on BL at $55 and someone bought it within a couple days.

    At that time the person not willing to pay my asking price did not have the option to "find a seller asking less" since there were none. This definitely isn't the case for most sets but in some cases this does happen.
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