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The Role of Resellers in Collecting LEGO

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Comments

  • MinifiguresPlusMinifiguresPlus Member Posts: 164
    Nice thread!
    I actually used to buy LEGO as a hobby, now I resell 100% - only not the way described here. It is mainly an instant resale and not based on discontinuation of sets for me and many others out there.
  • sidersddsidersdd USAMember Posts: 2,432
    I'll just say whenever I find a deal I post it here to share with others. If I were a real slime ball I'd keep the deals to myself.

    That being said I think my buying/selling days will be coming to an end soon - or slowing down considerably. I've spent a huge amount of time on buying/selling that I haven't been able to focus on MOCing. I've got multiple events coming up that I need to build for as well - including the store display in January. I've accomplished my mission of building up income to purchase parts, and I think I have some to coast on for a while. I might just spend 2012 building only... if only those Super Heroes sets weren't coming out...
  • sidersddsidersdd USAMember Posts: 2,432
    Just got the LUGBULK 2012 info as well - might need to shed some sets to pay for that.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    This is truly an interesting discussion and one that I took part in when the forum first started in April. I was a baseball card dealer and there are alot of similarities here. I buy ALOT of sets. Some are for personal consumption, some are for eventual retail. Idon't see people being jealous of people buying large amounts of sets, I see it as usurping the opportunity for others to take advantage of good prices. If I went into Walmart looking for a set on sale only to see someone walk off with an entire pallet of them, I would be mad too.

    The difference in all of these are supply and demand. Some sets have a shorter print run and will have a higher demand than others. Emerald Night and MMV will probably not see a metoric rise because eveyone has one or two. The availalbilty of these sets through TRU and BOGOs will drive down the aftermarket price. Sets like the Limo and Helicopter may see a large percentage increase because the print run was low and the distrbution was limited. This aftermarket will stabalize at a decreased profit margin for resellers. My advice is to buy what you like and if you get stuck with it, you're no worse off.
  • 12651265 Member Posts: 949
    Wow....lots of great responses and opinions. Gives me a perspective on if the market has shifted to a resellers' mindset. It's clear that prices have skyrocketed for discounted sets, which, fuels the fire for others to jump in to make a quick and/or future buck. I do see the trend of paying a premium for discounted sets slowing down based on more folks jumping on the bandwagon to "hold and sell" later. I think it's great for those who enter the hobby to get the set(s) they missed out on. Without resellers, I wouldn't buy the older sets I do today.

    @LegoFanTexas - Most likely I probably bumped into you one time since I frequent the Lego store in Frisco weekly.
  • brickupdatebrickupdate Member Posts: 1,020
    I buy really just to collect. I try to tell myself that some are for "investments" but I don't really sell all that often. If I get bored of a set, I'll ebay it to make room for other stuff. I will buy multiples of sets so I have one MIB and one I can build. For really cool sets, I'll buy a third with the idea that maybe one day I will sell it. But... it's easy to buy, and sort of a pain to go through the process of selling.

    As far as the binging on sales this time of year... I have found that these couple months are filled with incredible deals, then it's pretty much a draught for the rest of the year. Sure, TRU will have a sale every now and again, LEGO will have some okay sales throughout the year, but nothing really incredible. So I take advantage of the sales while I can.

    In the end, I just enjoy the experience of LEGO, and the community around them. So thanks to all of you for being a core part of that!
    -Dan
  • Bosstone100Bosstone100 USAMember Posts: 1,417
    @Wagnerml2 - That's what I'm talking about. Buying up product to resell and thus preventing legitimate buyers the opportunity to save money too is what I'm talking about. My brother works at a Walmart and he picked up one each of the $30 boxes for me. He asked me if that was all I wanted and I told him that it wouldn't be fair to other people. Maybe that's just me. I guess I felt sorta bad picking up all of those Target gift card sets and the clearance polybags. I got caught up with everyone buying them all up. But... maybe I shouldn't care because others were doing the same.

    All in all.. I want this to remain a fun hobby. We all make our own rules. I guess I just need to figure out what will keep fun for me.

    << If I went into Walmart looking for a set on sale only to see someone walk off with an entire pallet of them, I would be mad too. >>

  • andystarandystar Member Posts: 275
    I buy primarily for myself and my kids to enjoy, however the deals lately have been way too good to pass up. I usually buy two of the really good sets that appeal to adults, one to build with my kids and let them play with, and one to keep for myself.

    That said, I've recently gone beyond this and picked up 3 of certain sets, mostly to maximize a BOGO deal with the plan on selling off the 3rd set at some point.

    I must admit, I am also jealous of the lists @LegoFanTexas, @sidersdd, and others have purchased recently, but I understand... the deals are just too good. I wish the merchants would stop having such good sales (okay not really) but I'm beginning to fear what my credit card statement is going to look like next month.
  • BTHodgemanBTHodgeman Member Posts: 622


    As far as the binging on sales this time of year... I have found that these couple months are filled with incredible deals, then it's pretty much a draught for the rest of the year. Sure, TRU will have a sale every now and again, LEGO will have some okay sales throughout the year, but nothing really incredible. So I take advantage of the sales while I can.

    In the end, I just enjoy the experience of LEGO, and the community around them. So thanks to all of you for being a core part of that!
    -Dan
    You said it perfectly. The "good times" begin with Bricktober at TRU and end with the after-Christmas sales.

    Other than that, Target's July clearance can sometimes produce some good deals, but not nearly as much as this time of the year.

    Brent
  • BTHodgemanBTHodgeman Member Posts: 622
    The only time I clear a shelf is if it is a clearance item that would be gone shortly anyway OR if it is something I legitimately want and there are only a couple on the shelf. Example: 119 S5 minifigs at Walmart for $1 each last week.

    My philosophy: if the store puts it on clearance, there has been ample time for anyone who wanted the item to have bought it AND the store wants it gone. If I'm in the right place at the right time, I'll take advantage. If it's an item I'm not interested in, I send an e-mail to the local LUGs and let them know of the sale/clearance.

    Target gift cards... meh - I could have had hundreds this year. Pretty much every Target up here still has them in stock. But how many do I need? Will I really ever re-sell them? Maybe in 10 years.

    Brent
  • tvihtvih Member Posts: 92
    Mostly I'm currently worried about whether not the Death Star and Super Star Destroyer will be around long enough for me to afford them... though a major annoyance with the Death Star is it being so ridiculously much cheaper in the UK than it is in Finland. 120 euros... really, LEGO? :(

    As for the secondary market, gotta say I'm a bit annoyed, even if not surprised, by some of its trends. It's a problem because I missed out on some Star Wars and Kingdoms sets that if I can find now online are much overpriced because of "resellers" :/
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,904
    Would you rather find them "much overpriced" or not at all? Thank a reseller if you like having opportunities to get sets you missed out on while they were available.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^^ So true... They are not "overpriced", they are priced correctly to the market demand, there are people willing to pay those prices...
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,938
    tvih: If you want a DS at normal retail prices then find a way before it goes EOL, and check out amazon.es or amazon.it for a "fairer" price in Euros. Something is worth what someone else will pay for it. I have given up on buying a UCS MF long ago, I am not prepared to buy one at 3 x retail, but someone will. DS should be higher priority for you than the young and slightly unpopular SSD, as it is less likely to be discounted much and it is always in danger of going EOL.
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    ^^Have to chime in here and concur with pharm and LFT. If secondary market prices weren't sufficiently high, then resellers generally wouldn't exist. So you're pretty much screwed either way (your choices are high prices or no product).

    I would venture a guess that if such altruistic sellers existed that sold in-demand EOL sets for at/near MSRP, those sets would be sold so quickly that most people wouldn't have much a chance at buying them anyway. So perhaps people should, in a way, be appreciative of the supply/demand pricing on EOL sets, as it gives people that are willing and able to purchase EOL sets to do so.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    My only real issue with re-sellers is when they go out of their way to buy large amounts of sale product that prevents others from being able to getting it. (I refer more to the hearing people place multiple orders to get around limits and such)
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    My only real issue with re-sellers is when they go out of their way to buy large amounts of sale product that prevents others from being able to getting it. (I refer more to the hearing people place multiple orders to get around limits and such)
    I actually completely agree with this, in spite of being a smaller reseller myself. I think these limits specifically exist so that everyone has at least an opportunity to purchase these sets, but that's a conversation for another thread.

    More on topic, how long do we think I have to pick up the Creator Lighthouse? I like the set quite a bit, but apparently not enough to pull the trigger just yet.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I actually completely agree with this, in spite of being a smaller reseller myself. I think these limits specifically exist so that everyone has at least an opportunity to purchase these sets, but that's a conversation for another thread.
    I think it is worth being clear on the meaning here... because the way you said it, makes it sound like the resellers are making it impossible to buy these sets at all.

    What they are doing, in some limited cases, is making it harder to get the sets at a discount when they are on sale or discounted.

    In no way are resellers preventing the end customer from buying the set at all. Most of the sets being discounted have been available for awhile, and are freely for sale from many sources.
  • tvihtvih Member Posts: 92
    Would you rather find them "much overpriced" or not at all? Thank a reseller if you like having opportunities to get sets you missed out on while they were available.
    They could be available for less if not for the reseller though. It's especially fun, like LFT mentioned, when they buy a large amount of clearance items etc and then sell for way above retail. Plenty of that happening, it's nothing but profiteering. Obviously if people want to do this, well, that's their prerogative, and such things are hardly exclusive to the Lego community - and I'm sure they'll have enough customers willing to pay those priced. Doesn't mean I'm personally going to thank them for trying to make a profit on me ;) I'm trying to stay away from the second-hand market as much as possible anyway - both for used as well unused sets, but especially the former.

    Anyway I realize this is a bit off-topic so I'll just stop here. No one's gonna change anyone's mind about the matter anyway :)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    They could be available for less if not for the reseller though.
    No, they could not...

    Without resellers buying current production sets to sell after they are end-of-life, you couldn't get retired sets new in the box for anything near reasonable prices.

    The very few that would exist would be personal collection items that people decided to sell rather than keep.

    Resellers keep aftermarket prices lower than they otherwise would be.
    it's nothing but profiteering.
    And what is it that you're doing when you collect your paycheck every two weeks?

    Profiteering is not a dirty word, that is how money and economies work.
    Doesn't mean I'm personally going to thank them for trying to make a profit on me ;)
    You should thank them... The more supply a reseller buys to sell on after a set EOLs, the lower the price in the aftermarket.
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    I actually completely agree with this, in spite of being a smaller reseller myself. I think these limits specifically exist so that everyone has at least an opportunity to purchase these sets, but that's a conversation for another thread.
    I think it is worth being clear on the meaning here... because the way you said it, makes it sound like the resellers are making it impossible to buy these sets at all.

    What they are doing, in some limited cases, is making it harder to get the sets at a discount when they are on sale or discounted.

    In no way are resellers preventing the end customer from buying the set at all. Most of the sets being discounted have been available for awhile, and are freely for sale from many sources.
    Really, I felt it went without saying that I was speaking to discounted prices, as there's no logical reason for a reseller to circumvent product limits when the set is still selling for RRP, as there is ample opportunity to buy at that particular price point.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    Resellers are not the enemy. Scammers and drop shippers are. There is nothing wrong with buying alot of Lego sets at a discount and selling them above retail. It's business and people do this with everything.
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    Resellers are not the enemy. Scammers and drop shippers are. There is nothing wrong with buying alot of Lego sets at a discount and selling them above retail. It's business and people do this with everything.
    I don't disagree. I do disagree with circumventing a store's quantity limits in order to buy more sets than they'd actually like to sell you. If I buy fifteen more sets than limits allow, that's fifteen sets that I've more-or-less cheated out of the available pool. Maybe I've taken five sets apiece from three other resellers, or maybe I've quashed fifteen fans' hopes of obtaining said set at a price they find more reasonable.

    It's a grey area, to be sure, but it's something that I, even as a reseller, choose not to do.
  • Pacific493Pacific493 Member Posts: 379
    They could be available for less if not for the reseller though.
    How exactly would that work? Are resellers, such as myself, somehow impeding the hoardes of altruistic after-market sellers that would otherwise sell EOL sets for less?
    It's especially fun, like LFT mentioned, when they buy a large amount of clearance items etc and then sell for way above retail. Plenty of that happening, it's nothing but profiteering. .
    It's not all profiteering...just ask LFT about all of the clearance sets that he bought that haven't risen in value.

  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    ^Also, when was it bad to make a profit? Isn't that what keeps the world moving forward?

    For myself as a buyer, resellers have only helped my situations; not the other way around. There were plenty of sets that were released and EOL before I came out of the dark, so it's been nice they held those sets for me until I came around a few years later =) As a return on their 'kind' gesture, I gave them a few bucks extra for storing it during the time. I consider it 'handling fees' and they see it as 'financial return/incentive'. If it makes one feel better, just assume a 10% compounding annual interest on the RRP price to reflect the negative impact of cash flow and inflation. Then see how much 'profit' the evil reseller is actually getting (exceptions for gems such as UCS & Modulars).
  • Pacific493Pacific493 Member Posts: 379
    Resellers are not the enemy. Scammers and drop shippers are. There is nothing wrong with buying alot of Lego sets at a discount and selling them above retail. It's business and people do this with everything.
    I don't disagree. I do disagree with circumventing a store's quantity limits in order to buy more sets than they'd actually like to sell you. If I buy fifteen more sets than limits allow, that's fifteen sets that I've more-or-less cheated out of the available pool. Maybe I've taken five sets apiece from three other resellers, or maybe I've quashed fifteen fans' hopes of obtaining said set at a price they find more reasonable.

    It's a grey area, to be sure, but it's something that I, even as a reseller, choose not to do.
    If a store is really interested in only selling you a certain number of sets, there are plenty of ways that it could go about enforcing a hard cap on the number of sets that you could purchase. However, the reality is that the retailers -- even those who set "limits" -- don't really care how many copies of a given set that they sell to any given consumer. If one consumer walks in on the day that a set goes on sale and buys every single copy that the retailer has, that's a great transaction for the retailer. If the retailer truly cared about enforcing a set limit, they would takes steps necessary to impose and enforce the limit. However, when a consumer can "circumvent" a store's set limit simply by placing two separate orders, that consumer is buying from a store that doesn't really care about how many copies of the set they sell to any given consumer.
    nhyone
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    ^Two separate orders usually gets your second order cancelled (at least through [email protected], Target and Amazon). You actually need to jump through a lot of hoops to get around item limits in most cases (set up a second account, ship to a different address, use a different card, etc.). As I've already stated, though, it's absolutely a grey area, and to each their own. Just because I disagree with the practice doesn't mean anyone else has to.
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    I was fairly negative towards resellers in the beginning but now I don't care. Probably because I now think like them. I just don't have the patience or funds to buy multiple sets and then hang onto them for the necessary time to make a profit.

    Anyone else find the scene in that AFOL documentary funny when the guy in the Lego store picks up the Town Plan set and then puts it back on the shelf. I'm thinking to myself, "Only if he knew..."
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    I actually completely agree with this, in spite of being a smaller reseller myself. I think these limits specifically exist so that everyone has at least an opportunity to purchase these sets, but that's a conversation for another thread.
    I think it is worth being clear on the meaning here... because the way you said it, makes it sound like the resellers are making it impossible to buy these sets at all.

    What they are doing, in some limited cases, is making it harder to get the sets at a discount when they are on sale or discounted.

    In no way are resellers preventing the end customer from buying the set at all. Most of the sets being discounted have been available for awhile, and are freely for sale from many sources.
    I'm referring to this. Say this past May the 4th sale, Lego decided to discount the Death star 50% off for one day. They set a limit of one set per person. I'm talking the person with 20 email accounts that puts in 20 orders at midnight, then races to the store and stand out front of it offering people 20-30 bucks to go inside and buy one for them. Yes, you can argue the DS has been out forever but there are a lot of people who can afford 200 instead of 400. That's not a fair thing to me.

    Now fast forward to the end of the day, if you go in to the lego store 5 minutes before it closes and ask if you can buy whats left, thats fair game as people had a fair shot to get it.

    I've dealt with toys and collectibles for probably 15 years now and the way some resellers are sickens me to no end. You know the types that will yank a hot wheel out of a kids hand because its a rare one (Sadly this happens way more often then you'd think) That said, I also know most people are not that way.

    My overall take on people who's main reason for buying is reselling is they are a necessary evil.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    Anything above the level of funding the hobby--by which I mean buying extra sets to sell in order to purchase sets to build which would otherwise be financially unfeasible--verges on ruining it for everybody. And I'm pretty sure the next few years are going to verify this pessimistic prediction. Reselling is perfectly fine, but let's say I make poverty level wages and yet really like Lego; I save for months to buy two sets instead of one, hoping that everything I've read on the Interwebs is true and I'll be able to sell it for double in about a year. Time passes, and I can't sell my one and get that new set because Jimbo and Billy Boy and Susie Q are selling 1000 of them for less. They're like the Wal Mart of Lego hobbyists.

    Poke holes in this scenario all you want ("that's the risk you take...only X sets double...who cares about the poor"), its rudimentariness makes the point. Resellers are nobody's friend if they, en masse, alter the conditions of collecting. To say they deserve any thanks (besides the only kind that matters to them: ROI) is a misplaced piety. A necessary evil, perhaps, but angelic saviors of the hobby, I think not. I understand that there are genuine AFOLs who have thousands of sets hoarded, but this type of profiteering off a hobby in which everyone could participate and break even is certain to create a bubble, if not a backlash. I truly hope I'm wrong and it's blue skies forever, but...

    The wife is taking the iPad away now, so I have to shut up. There's no final word here, or anywhere, ever, I would just like to believe that already financially well-endowed adults aren't going to allow lust for ever more money corrupt the joy of playing with kids toys (and not going into debt in the process).
  • LegofanscottLegofanscott Member Posts: 622
    edited June 2012
    Anything above the level of funding the hobby--by which I mean buying extra sets to sell in order to purchase sets to build which would otherwise be financially unfeasible--verges on ruining it for everybody. And I'm pretty sure the next few years are going to verify this pessimistic prediction. Reselling is perfectly fine, but let's say I make poverty level wages and yet really like Lego; I save for months to buy two sets instead of one, hoping that everything I've read on the Interwebs is true and I'll be able to sell it for double in about a year. Time passes, and I can't sell my one and get that new set because Jimbo and Billy Boy and Susie Q are selling 1000 of them for less. They're like the Wal Mart of Lego hobbyists.

    Poke holes in this scenario all you want ("that's the risk you take...only X sets double...who cares about the poor"), its rudimentariness makes the point. Resellers are nobody's friend if they, en masse, alter the conditions of collecting. To say they deserve any thanks (besides the only kind that matters to them: ROI) is a misplaced piety. A necessary evil, perhaps, but angelic saviors of the hobby, I think not. I understand that there are genuine AFOLs who have thousands of sets hoarded, but this type of profiteering off a hobby in which everyone could participate and break even is certain to create a bubble, if not a backlash. I truly hope I'm wrong and it's blue skies forever, but...

    The wife is taking the iPad away now, so I have to shut up. There's no final word here, or anywhere, ever, I would just like to believe that already financially well-endowed adults aren't going to allow lust for ever more money corrupt the joy of playing with kids toys (and not going into debt in the process).
    I think alot of people would disagree with this, I have no problem with resellers, i wish there was as many resellers when the UCS falcon was released as there is now as i may have still been able to afford one today.

    They may not be doing the hobbyists who buy the extra set for investment any good but for new AFOL who want EOL sets that are still affordable they are a blessing.

    At the end of the day Lego is just a toy, everyone now just seems to be caught up in the profit making side of the hobby, me being one of them although i just don't have the willpower to keep the sets i buy sealed unfortunately xD

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    It's not all profiteering...just ask LFT about all of the clearance sets that he bought that haven't risen in value.
    Amen to that!!! :)

    I still have hundreds of PQ and Atlantis sets that I bought for 50% off from Walmart 6 months ago, that I can't make a dime on today, they are sell well below retail price.

    Ditto Cars and Toy Story stuff... The Toy Story stuff is finally starting to rise, slowly... I'd take it all back if I could however... ;)
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    I'm confident there's an existing thread that debates the role of resellers in this hobby. Let's continue this tangent there. I'll try to find time tomorrow to do some splitting/merging.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,613
    I think this whole argument is a moot point. the people that agree with your opinion will agree and those that do not will not, they will more than likely not be persuaded regardless..
    Resellers are what they are and sale/clearance hoarders are what they are no matter what you try to say about it you will not change anyone's opinion and it just takes away from this discussion thread which is to predict sets discontinuing and what their value may be later on.
  • MCNwakeboardMCNwakeboard VirginiaMember Posts: 279
    edited June 2012
    At some point the increased supply of sets due to resellers will keep prices low or at least slow the price increase. I would guess that green grocer has increased in value at a slower rate than cafe corner due to more resellers "hoarding" it. I would argue that the emerald night is a good example where a lot of people expected it to double but it has been pretty steady after the initial jump. I would argue that this benefits the buyer who was not interested in the set when it was available but for whatever reason wants the set later. Some people don't value old sets enough to pay a premium and that is fine. Am I "thankful" to a reseller for selling sets to me when they were no longer available? Not exactly, but I don't consider them the scum of the earth. I was happy with the transaction because a willing buyer and seller agreed on a price.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    I'm confident there's an existing thread that debates the role of resellers in this hobby. Let's continue this tangent there. I'll try to find time tomorrow to do some splitting/merging.
    ...and there it is

  • tvihtvih Member Posts: 92
    edited June 2012
    Didn't find the other thread yet, so I'll just put this here. Last one on the subject from me anyway.
    They could be available for less if not for the reseller though.
    How exactly would that work? Are resellers, such as myself, somehow impeding the hoardes of altruistic after-market sellers that would otherwise sell EOL sets for less?
    How exactly? Well, resellers don't magically materialize extra sets out of thin air as far as I know. So if they hadn't bought them all, the sets would either still be available in stores for those wanting them, or already in the hands of hobbyists/collectors/kids as they should be (rather than people just looking to sell them for a profit). Obviously some people that would want them still wouldn't have them. But that's always going to be the case, and resellers don't really change that - because as said they don't affect the number of sets produced/in existence.

    Anyway, look - I already said no one's going to change anyone's mind here, and I know full well this will inevitably keep on happening just like it always has with many different things rather than just Legos, and it's hardly the worst thing in the world anyway - but that doesn't mean I have to like it or that I can't mention my opinion on the subject. It honestly wasn't meant as a subject for an argument, though in retrospect I guess it was bound to happen.

    On a completely different note, that "UCS Minecraft" set's something that would really be a proper Minecraft set, rather than the one we have right now :) Of course, it'd cost a ton at that size, heh.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,454
    I'm trying to stay away from the second-hand market as much as possible anyway - both for used as well unused sets, but especially the former.
    How do you stay away from the second hand market for used sets? If it is used, it is second hand, so it is unavoidable to stay away if you buy used.

    Why not just buy everything for full RRP on the day of release. That way, stocks are available and you pay Lego what they want for the item.
  • tvihtvih Member Posts: 92
    Meh, I said last post but to clear a last few things (and then a few more, and more, and...)...

    How do you stay away from the second hand market for used sets? If it is used, it is second hand, so it is unavoidable to stay away if you buy used.

    Why not just buy everything for full RRP on the day of release. That way, stocks are available and you pay Lego what they want for the item.
    Well I admit that my sentence was a bit ambiguous - what it was supposed to say is that I try to stay away from used sets in general, and to a lesser extend also unopened ones if they're second hand and marked up - and there's just something that makes it much nicer to get a new, clean, off-the-shelf package. Though if the price is right compared to my needs, this "rule" is of course evaluated on an individual basis - never say never, and all that. And as a clarification I don't lose sleep over resellers if someone got that impression, I merely frown at some of the more... unscrupulous ones. There have been many good examples given in the last few pages.

    As for buying on the day of release - yes, I intend to buy sets I want when they come out in the future assuming I can afford them (something that is far from a given right now), but at the moment the situation is that I only just came out of my "Dark Age" and I'm mostly buying sets that have relatively recently gone out of production, like Kingdoms since Castle has generally been my favorite theme. But I've been fairly successful in getting new sets from stores at a good price so far. Main problems seem to be the King's Castle and Prison Tower Rescue, which, while available from specialty stores, are usually quite a bit more expensive than they would've been last year. But I'll get 'em yet!
  • SpaceCakeSpaceCake Member Posts: 291

    How exactly? Well, resellers don't magically materialize extra sets out of thin air as far as I know. So if they hadn't bought them all, the sets would either still be available in stores for those wanting them...
    No. Just, no. You make it sound like LEGO produce a limited number of any given set, instead of producing a set for a specific period of time. Resellers buying up multiple copies of a set does not prevent an end user from getting their hands on said set. Look at Fire Brigade, Death Star, Imperial Shuttle, etc - they have all been available on [email protected] since they restocked after May the 4th.

    I honestly cannot comprehend why this doesn't make perfect sense to you... It's such a simple matter of common sense that I have actually struggled to put it into words.

    Almost like trying to describe the colour "red" to somebody. It's just... red?!
  • tvihtvih Member Posts: 92
    Oh for the love of...
    No. Just, no. You make it sound like LEGO produce a limited number of any given set, instead of producing a set for a specific period of time. Resellers buying up multiple copies of a set does not prevent an end user from getting their hands on said set. Look at Fire Brigade, Death Star, Imperial Shuttle, etc - they have all been available on [email protected] since they restocked after May the 4th.
    Well it depends entirely on the type of reseller! I mean sure, if it's the kind of reseller that buys a ton of sets early on in the product's lifespan causing Lego to make more of them to meet demand, then great, more sets for everyone!

    I guess I could've been even more clear about it, but I was more referring to the folks that for example buy a metric ton of clearance items that are no longer produced - therefore, more purchases no longer equates to more being made - often at big discounts for the sole purpose of selling them at way above retail later, often earning many times the money compared to what they paid for it, or even what the original retail price was (30€ Imperial Dropships, anyone?). So they get lots of sets and lots of profit, while those hobbyists who would've wanted to buy a set too didn't get it at a discount because that one guy hogged them all from under his/her nose to make a payday on them. They aren't doing it to give other people chances to buy the set, they do it to make a profit on said other people. It's really that simple. I hope that that point now makes sense to you?

    To each their own what they think is "fair", but I personally do find it frown-worthy. I bought multiples of two Kingdoms sets at low prices myself, but I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit, I did it to build an army for a large scene I have in mind (especially as it seemed at the time of order that I wouldn't be able to get a Kingdoms Chess Set from [email protected] because people bought up the initial European batch in record time and a Lego representative claimed none more were coming when I inquired about it via email). But just looking to make a buck from fellow hobbyists... meh. Go ahead and do it, nothing can stop you, but don't tell me to thank you or consider you a patron saint of all Lego fans for it.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,454
    Oh for the love of...

    To each their own what they think is "fair", but I personally do find it frown-worthy. I bought multiples of two Kingdoms sets at low prices myself, but I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit, I did it to build an army for a large scene I have in mind ...
    But you did it, whether or not profit was involved. If that is OK, then why is that any different to someone else buying two and selling one, then using the profit from that one to buy something else for his Lego creation? And if that is OK, then why not five, ten, fifty sets? And why limit it to Lego, what if he spent the profit on food or rent?

    By buying just one item on clearance sale, you stop someone else buying it. The only difference between you and someone else buying 10 is the scale of the purchase and the number of people you stop getting a similar cheap deal at the time of the sale. However, you are both stopping someone else. And there will never be agreement on how many it is OK to take.

    You only need to look at The Sun promo in the UK. Some people think two free promo items is fair, others three, others five, others 10, and yet other people claim 100s, mainly for resale.

    Whatever you are comfortable with is all that matters. If you are stopping someone else getting something in a fixed number of items sale, then they should have got there earlier.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    I'm confident there's an existing thread that debates the role of resellers in this hobby. Let's continue this tangent there. I'll try to find time tomorrow to do some splitting/merging.
    Not to flog a dead horse, but I don't see how the role of resellers can logically be separate from the secondary market value of discontinued sets. Like asking how time is separate from space. Just to be clear, there is nothing wrong with reselling in general; to me it is a question of scope. One or two drinks a day promotes blood circulation, much more kills brain cells. The analogy is obvious. Large scale hoarders are going to keep rationalizing their behavior because people tend to promulgate notions that demand no change at all from whatever state they happen to find themselves in. I think in the near future this phenomenon is going to blow up in everybody's faces, resulting in a massive depression in aftermarket values, which I can't imagine any reseller wants to see. Builders with a bottomless income, however, will rejoice. Do what you will, I simply want a primary and secondary Lego community that is fair, fun, and open to all.

    I noticed that on UK [email protected] PotC did not vanish after the recent discounts but HP did. I assume another wave will come in July/August, perhaps in the US as well? The lackluster Dec 26 sales seemed to promise a thorough summer warehouse cleaning, though I can't imagine anyone is still holding their breath for #10193 and #10197 to go. AC, HP, PotC and maybe even 2506 and 2507 seem likely candidates. I hope.
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    How exactly? Well, resellers don't magically materialize extra sets out of thin air as far as I know. So if they hadn't bought them all, the sets would either still be available in stores for those wanting them, or already in the hands of hobbyists/collectors/kids as they should be (rather than people just looking to sell them for a profit). Obviously some people that would want them still wouldn't have them. But that's always going to be the case, and resellers don't really change that - because as said they don't affect the number of sets produced/in existence.
    You're obviously correct in that resellers buying clearanced Lego sets (or maybe even Lego sets in general to an extent) do not change the total number of sets in existence. However, they do change the total number of sets available to people to buy. If a reseller had not purchased the sets, the sets would have been purchased by a random person and likely fade out of existence one way or another (likely with the set pieces being mixed up with some kids' other Lego pieces and eventually donated to charity, sold by the pound on Craigslist, etc).

    I'm not necessarily defending resellers, so much as I am stating reality. I resell sets on a very small scale (I sometimes buy an extra copy or two of a set to sell later), but I really wouldn't miss out on much if for some reason I couldn't resell. So I really don't consider myself that biased regarding this discussion.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    Oh for the love of...

    To each their own what they think is "fair", but I personally do find it frown-worthy. I bought multiples of two Kingdoms sets at low prices myself, but I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit, I did it to build an army for a large scene I have in mind ...
    But you did it, whether or not profit was involved. If that is OK, then why is that any different to someone else buying two and selling one, then using the profit from that one to buy something else for his Lego creation? And if that is OK, then why not five, ten, fifty sets? And why limit it to Lego, what if he spent the profit on food or rent?

    By buying just one item on clearance sale, you stop someone else buying it. The only difference between you and someone else buying 10 is the scale of the purchase and the number of people you stop getting a similar cheap deal at the time of the sale. However, you are both stopping someone else. And there will never be agreement on how many it is OK to take.

    You only need to look at The Sun promo in the UK. Some people think two free promo items is fair, others three, others five, others 10, and yet other people claim 100s, mainly for resale.

    Whatever you are comfortable with is all that matters. If you are stopping someone else getting something in a fixed number of items sale, then they should have got there earlier.
    Should have gotten there earlier, Always loved that comment. MY Last job before I came back to school I was a warehouse Supervisor that works from 5 AM till at least 4PM, usually closer to 6 each day. SO I dont deserve the right to have a fair shot at something just because I have a job?

    If there is 10 of something and 10 people buy it so be it. If they make the limit 2 and 5 people each buy two so be it. My (biggest) problem is the people who go out of their way to go over those limits. I know I maybe a minority voice here, but if If I have to pay more for a set later because there is less stock, but it means more kids and real collectors got the set for a fair price earlier, I'm fine with that.

    One of the reasons I read this thread is to see what people are clamoring about not so I can "OMG MAKE MY MILLIONS!!1!" but so that I know what sets to make sure I do get before allowing them to go away. My first week here I had two resellers make me stupidly lopside trade offers which basically was meant to take advantage of someone not knowing their stuff. And THAT is when being a reseller and collector doesnt match.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    To all:

    Please, everyone, be civil... We all love Lego, we should each respect each other's opinion...

    To tvih:
    To each their own what they think is "fair", but I personally do find it frown-worthy. I bought multiples of two Kingdoms sets at low prices myself, but I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit, I did it to build an army for a large scene I have in mind
    I would like to talk about this point you made...

    You said "I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit."

    Your statement is implying that you see making a profit as bad. If this is correct, then do you consider The Lego Group to be evil, since they are in it to make a profit? Is all profit bad?

    I am finding this thought process more and more as I resell Lego, more so than in other areas I do business. If I buy up computer equipment to resell, no one tells me that is "bad" and that I'm "profiteering"... But when I do it with Lego, somehow I've become "evil"?

    Am I understanding what you meant correctly?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I guess I could've been even more clear about it, but I was more referring to the folks that for example buy a metric ton of clearance items that are no longer produced
    Something to consider... When Walmart marks down Lego to 50% off, they are not "doing a service for their customers", they are trying to make the stuff go away.

    Walmart actually wants someone to come along and buy it all, I've personally had a manager go get me another cart, help me check out, then take it all out to my truck and help load it. Took 5 shopping carts of Lego out of that Walmart, the manager was thrilled... All 50% off after Christmas.

    Did I stop some poor kid from having one of those sets?

    No, because they had all been for sale for years, the parents had every chance in the world to buy them and did not do so.
    therefore, more purchases no longer equates to more being made
    Actually, you don't know that... Some sets that are discounted or clearanced, end up being produced further... It isn't common, but it does happen...
    - often at big discounts for the sole purpose of selling them at way above retail later, often earning many times the money compared to what they paid for it
    You say that like it is a bad thing?

    Walmart probably pays about 60% of RRP for the sets they buy, how dare they sell them for full retail price? Look at all the millions of dollars in profit they are making, how evil of them! We should all go picket Walmart right now and demand they discount all Lego by 30% so they aren't making "too much money".

    Yes, your point really does sound that silly... You are implying that Walmart has a right to a profit, but I do not have the same right.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,454
    edited June 2012
    Oh for the love of...

    To each their own what they think is "fair", but I personally do find it frown-worthy. I bought multiples of two Kingdoms sets at low prices myself, but I don't see it as that bad because I didn't do it to make a profit, I did it to build an army for a large scene I have in mind ...
    But you did it, whether or not profit was involved. If that is OK, then why is that any different to someone else buying two and selling one, then using the profit from that one to buy something else for his Lego creation? And if that is OK, then why not five, ten, fifty sets? And why limit it to Lego, what if he spent the profit on food or rent?

    By buying just one item on clearance sale, you stop someone else buying it. The only difference between you and someone else buying 10 is the scale of the purchase and the number of people you stop getting a similar cheap deal at the time of the sale. However, you are both stopping someone else. And there will never be agreement on how many it is OK to take.

    You only need to look at The Sun promo in the UK. Some people think two free promo items is fair, others three, others five, others 10, and yet other people claim 100s, mainly for resale.

    Whatever you are comfortable with is all that matters. If you are stopping someone else getting something in a fixed number of items sale, then they should have got there earlier.
    Should have gotten there earlier, Always loved that comment. MY Last job before I came back to school I was a warehouse Supervisor that works from 5 AM till at least 4PM, usually closer to 6 each day. SO I dont deserve the right to have a fair shot at something just because I have a job?

    If there is 10 of something and 10 people buy it so be it. If they make the limit 2 and 5 people each buy two so be it. My (biggest) problem is the people who go out of their way to go over those limits. I know I maybe a minority voice here, but if If I have to pay more for a set later because there is less stock, but it means more kids and real collectors got the set for a fair price earlier, I'm fine with that.

    One of the reasons I read this thread is to see what people are clamoring about not so I can "OMG MAKE MY MILLIONS!!1!" but so that I know what sets to make sure I do get before allowing them to go away. My first week here I had two resellers make me stupidly lopside trade offers which basically was meant to take advantage of someone not knowing their stuff. And THAT is when being a reseller and collector doesnt match.

    It has been said a number of times before. The point of a clearance sale is to clear inventory. It is actually better for the store to clear it in one go, than it is to clear it in dribs and drabs. I am sure at most clearances, the store would love someone to buy 100 items rather than 100 people to buy 1.

    The having a job part - you get to the store when you get to the store. Clearance is first come, first served. If you get there as they mark down items you win, if not you lose. There is no fairness needed. The company wants rid of the stock, and they will sell to the first person that offers what they want for it.
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,904


    " SO I dont deserve the right to have a fair shot at something just because I have a job?"

    The essence of it all... entitlement. No one deserves to have the right to a "fair" shot at anything, least of all buying LEGO. Mod's, please for the love of all that is holy split this topic and merge with something else.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,454


    " SO I dont deserve the right to have a fair shot at something just because I have a job?"

    The essence of it all... entitlement. No one deserves to have the right to a "fair" shot at anything, least of all buying LEGO. Mod's, please for the love of all that is holy split this topic and merge with something else.
    I guess we could go down the route of is it fair that someone has a job, whereas someone else doesn't. It is not fair that someone with a job can afford to pay full RRP for a set, whereas someone that doesn't have a job has to really think hard about whether to buy Lego or food. Is it fair that some people work near a store so they can pop out in their lunch break. Is it fair that some cities get a Lego store, whereas others don't.
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