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Online Fraud: Drop Shipped LEGO, etc. (eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Bricklink, etc.)

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Comments

  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    ^ Not likely a scam, but probably stolen merchandise. At this point, I just assume anyone selling most current, in production sets for anything close to retail is selling sets they stole one way or another. There's just absolutely no way you can do that and make money if you bought the sets legitimately.
  • gdelahoussegdelahousse Member Posts: 153
    ^^ looks very similar (inventory, pricing, etc) than drop ship seller I was a victim of a month ago. Looks like that new seller opened its store just after the previous seller I am talking about closed his..
  • LegobrandonCPLegobrandonCP CanadaMember Posts: 1,914
    edited May 2012
    What if the set was on sale or BOGO at TRU? Or maybe their kid got an unwanted set as a gift and they just put it on eBay lower than MSRP just to get rid of it quicker.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    ^ I'm sure that happens a lot. Unfortunately and IMO, it's no longer worth it to buy current sets in the online aftermarket. Let's force these criminals to go elsewhere by starving the beast.
  • gdelahoussegdelahousse Member Posts: 153
    edited May 2012
    ^^ One set is fine, multiple sets, having new ones every day is more than suspicious. Check its store once a day and you will see the inventory "changing"
  • LegobrandonCPLegobrandonCP CanadaMember Posts: 1,914
    ^ That is a good point. I did not think of it that way.
  • MarkVMarkV Member Posts: 42
    You're making me paranoid enough that it's discouraging me from buying on ebay. Buy It Nows on discontinued stuff at MSRP, large numbers of sets offered with the same end date of sale and selling at 25 to 35% under MSRP, it all looks too good to be true.

    Maybe it's time to focus on production sets instead of discontinued stuff and to check contents instead of waiting a few months until I get around to it.
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    What if the set was on sale or BOGO at TRU? Or maybe their kid got an unwanted set as a gift and they just put it on eBay lower than MSRP just to get rid of it quicker.
    If it was a gift, you'd be far better off returning it to the store for cash/credit. Selling on eBay in this case makes no sense. Even on 20% sale or bogo, you're not going to make enough selling at or below retail to even make it remotely worth it. After fees you've made next to nothing.

    Of course there are always exceptions, but unless we're talking about sets that have been clearanced at walmart or Kmart for 50%-75% off, I'd swear these are *all* stolen.
  • starfire2starfire2 Phoenix AZMember Posts: 1,329
    ^ Not always. Target won't take anything over $75 without a receipt in an 18 month period.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ Hmm, that is a weird one, but they don't have a lot for sale, however why chance it? The deals aren't that great, but are "good enough" that they raise a flag.

    Always an option to e-mail the seller and ask.
  • starfire2starfire2 Phoenix AZMember Posts: 1,329
    ^huh? Are you responding to my comment or Bandits?
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    Dumb question but why do they all always have the same sets for sale? I was about to get a Joust set cheap then the seller emailed me and said he couldn't sell it to me because the box was in bad shape. I told him I didn't care. I looked at where he was from (Belgium) and figured he was a drop shipper. I then guessed he couldn't "sell" it me because Lego was sold out. So I went to Lego.com and it was available. He offered me the Yellow Cargo Train instead. So how was he not able to buy a Joust set but could get me the train?
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ maybe he wasn't a drop-ship scammer after all, and what he was saying was true?
  • seonadancingseonadancing Member Posts: 92
    I've always wondered how much Lego sets are sold in Denmark, i was told by someone who visited that the Lego sets there cost less than that on US stores, so these sellers may have business in Denmark that allows them to buy sets and take it back with them wherever, then sell it on ebay at US retail price.
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    No, he was a drop shipper. His location in his ebay ID was Belgium and his ship from MS. Also now, I am hearing about another set they drop shippers have listed that can not be sent by them. It is really odd that they can not "buy" any and every set with thier stolen cards. If it is a credit card, why can they not "auction", say the Joust set? The other sets, which they all seem to "have" are ok for them to order. It's almost like Lego has too many of these sets and are not caring that the scammers are selling those specific sets. They get paid, and thier inventory goes down.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,005
    ^^ I don't think prices are better in Denmark. Danish friends often buy Lego when they visit the UK, and for most sets, the US has better prices than the UK too.
  • 260madison260madison Member Posts: 50
    @romdom

    it almost seems like you are looking for dropshippers specifically, so is your plan to rinse and repeat and have them use their "stolen card" to your benefit and justifying it to yourself at the process

    just stating my observation

    maybe you should email [email protected] and ask them why the dropshipper you were trying to buy a set of joust only to ask them to refund you after you receive the package cannot sell you the joust set
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    I'm stating my observations to what they do. It's a simple question. Why can't they "sell" anything? Why is it always the same sets they all sell on all the sites? These are sets that ar close to being done or have been even clearanced at Wal Mart. They don't sell anything new. They have tried I know as I have seen feedbacks on sites where they "offered" a new set then, according to the feedback, "backed out of the sale". This was for a Town Hall set three diff times by three diff people. If they use stlen credit cards, why can't it work to order Town Hall or Kingdoms Joust or another set? An order is an order isn't it?
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    ^ obviously this is a different scam. I'm sure there are countless types. Who knows what their process is...
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ [email protected] will often limit quantities for new/exclusive/direct items, even across multiple orders. its possible the drop ship scammer already sold several joust sets and had further orders for them picked up and flagged for CS review, then cancelled. Or perhaps based on past experience they know this is likely to occur, so they avoid it. that is human review they dont' want to be subject to.

    Remember May the 4th? remember how many of us had legitimate orders flagged and stuck in customer service review? thieves will want to avoid this like the plague, as it is the quickest, easiest way to draw unwanted attention.
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    @260madison - I completely agree with your observation.
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    @260madison - I completely agree with your observation.
    Which I am assuming is directed to me. I will say I am "blacklisted" by the sellers. They won't let me bid or buy. Yes, by all. There's a lot more to this than just random people selling on ebay and all the other sites. It's not just random people doing fly by night things. It will never stop unless they stop themselves. It goes way further than just some people scamming credit. Its what you would call organized crime I guess. It goes much deeper than what you only see on Amazon, Ebay and countless other sites.
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    ^ The point is that you've already bought three sets from these dropshippers, demanded and received your money back from them, contacted LEGO to clear your name off their blacklist, but then opened the sets so they wouldn't ask you to return them. Now you continue to try to buy from sellers you know to be dropshippers using stolen credit cards and seem to be getting frustrated that they won't allow you to buy, or allow you to buy the sets that you want.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    edited May 2012
    @romdam - I'm not sure how we as a group can make this any more clear to you. Based on your posts, it appears that you are intentionally targeting drop scammers in order to get "Free" LEGO. What they are doing is illegal and what you are doing is, at the very minimum, unethical, though I'd argue you are knowingly participating in fraud. I've given you the benefit of the doubt so far...
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    And I'm not sure how more I can I can make things to you. I can't "target" them anymore anyways. The "sellers" are a "group". They all work together. If I were to bid or buy, they willcancel my bid or the transaction. From any of them. They are all on the same page even tho the have diff accounts. They just do the bottom work of the selling. Basically the last link in a chain of commands per say. Just reporting them won't stop anything.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    ^ So you readily admit that you've been intentionally buying from them but that they, as a group, have now blacklisted you?
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,939
    Knowingly benefiting from fraud is an offence, even if you are scamming the scammers by claiming your refund knowing they won't kick up a fuss. What happened to honour amongst thieves? Aware customers of these fraudsters who still place orders are fuelling the demand.

    Are we supposed to feel sorry for you that the scammers have now blacklisted you? That makes everything better then!
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    Just reporting them won't stop anything.
    And I guess that by telling you that what you're doing is ethically, morally, and legally wrong is not going to stop you either.
  • brickmaticbrickmatic Member Posts: 1,071
    And I'm not sure how more I can I can make things to you. I can't "target" them anymore anyways. The "sellers" are a "group". They all work together.
    You seem super excited to tell us that they are all blacklisting you, as if this should be surprising. This should not be surprising. Like I explained before, the individual with access to the database of stolen credit card numbers is recruiting naive and unscrupulous eBay sellers to act as middlemen so that he or she can cover their trail from investigators. It isn't that the eBay sellers are working together, it's that they use the same individual for fulfillment. What is surprising is that you've manged to pull the same act of ordering the product and demanding refunds that the person at the top of this scam is now blacklisting you.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Just reporting them won't stop anything.
    And I guess that by telling you that what you're doing is ethically, morally, and legally wrong is not going to stop you either.
    Yea, rather sad, isn't it?

    Whatever happened to "Don't be evil!"

    :)
  • The_Brick_BuilderThe_Brick_Builder Member Posts: 658
    ^ Most likely not a fraudster.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,410
    ^ I'm sure that happens a lot. Unfortunately and IMO, it's no longer worth it to buy current sets in the online aftermarket. Let's force these criminals to go elsewhere by starving the beast.
    I agree totally. I only buy from Lego and TRU and sometimes Amazon, but only if it is from Amazon, not from a seller on Amazon.
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    Knowingly benefiting from fraud is an offence, even if you are scamming the scammers by claiming your refund knowing they won't kick up a fuss. What happened to honour amongst thieves? Aware customers of these fraudsters who still place orders are fuelling the demand.

    Are we supposed to feel sorry for you that the scammers have now blacklisted you? That makes everything better then!
    No, I could care less. What I am trying to say that I figured anyone with any kind of knowledge would understand, is that the whole selling/auction thing is bigger than anyone thinks. They all work together. It is not just 20 diff people doing it on the sites. They are all one group. Seriously, what is there not to understand?? Does anyone really not see what is going on? You want to jump on me, fine. I am trying to explain what THEY are doing. You all make posts about "look at this auction" or "look at this seller on Amazon". Big deal. They know you know. These sellers, again, are a group. They work for someone else. This group takes the sale/auctions. The one they work for has the card info. That group does the actually ordering/buying of the specific sets THEY KNOW TO SELL/AUCTION. I already mentioned some of that before, only phrased it in the form of a question. They know about this board and any board talking about this. One person even gets emails from people reporting the auctions/sales. So I don't know who you all are reporting these to but the reports/links of the auctions/sellers are getting right back to them. They won't get shut down unless ebay/Amazon/and ALL the other sites stop them. Do you not see Lego isn't trying to stop them? They won't for reasons. I don't know how black and white I need to say it.

    So, yea, I am told by one of the bottom ringers I am "blacklisted" and explained why.

    Makes everything better how may I ask? Because I know what is going on now? I try to explain but it comes back wanting people to feel sorry for me? Whatever. All I can say is only report the sellers from any/all sites directly to that site. Sending any links to anyone else is just going right back to the people who are doing the selling and making them more aware of things.

    Remember "item ships from MS" was the norm? Notice how it's not now? That's part of how they become more aware.

    I'm done with this. I was trying to shed some light on what is going on and you all think I want a pity party.

  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    And I'm not sure how more I can I can make things to you. I can't "target" them anymore anyways. The "sellers" are a "group". They all work together.
    You seem super excited to tell us that they are all blacklisting you, as if this should be surprising. This should not be surprising. Like I explained before, the individual with access to the database of stolen credit card numbers is recruiting naive and unscrupulous eBay sellers to act as middlemen so that he or she can cover their trail from investigators. It isn't that the eBay sellers are working together, it's that they use the same individual for fulfillment. What is surprising is that you've manged to pull the same act of ordering the product and demanding refunds that the person at the top of this scam is now blacklisting you.
    Not true. They are not "recruiting". The ones seller will recruit if they are told to look for more stuff to get rid of. Depends on supply. This is solely what they do. They are just the bottom rung. And, yes, the sellers DO work together. They are a group. It isnt just ebay, it is all others. Soon, if not already, Bricklink.

  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,939
    edited May 2012
    Romdam: The main issue here isn't that there's a scam going on (there always is), it's that you're knowingly participating as a way to get free lego. By scamming the scammers you're not better than them, you're joining them - the only difference is it's not in their interests to pursue you for their losses as it would draw attention to their own activities. Justify it as some misguided "Robin Hood" activity if you like but you're just as big a fraudster with your activities.

    I actually don't think the credit card companies to enough to follow leads to prosecution, they're happy enough to write fraud losses off, so I do believe they're partly to blame for fraud in their apathy.
  • brickmaticbrickmatic Member Posts: 1,071
    Not true. They are not "recruiting". The ones seller will recruit if they are told to look for more stuff to get rid of. Depends on supply. This is solely what they do. They are just the bottom rung. And, yes, the sellers DO work together. They are a group. It isnt just ebay, it is all others. Soon, if not already, Bricklink.
    You seriously have an issue listening to what other people are saying. This thread talks about how the scam artists try to recruit new eBay sellers. Both @LegoFanTexas and @bricknation were sent emails soliciting them into the scam, which of course they did not go for. For the most part, this thread has been great because it raises awareness of the issue and takes a step forward to combat this type of fraud. You, on the other other hand, offer little constructive feedback and get irrationally defensive about the comments you are getting from the community telling you that what you've been doing is not ok.
  • brickmaticbrickmatic Member Posts: 1,071
    I actually don't think the credit card companies to enough to follow leads to prosecution, they're happy enough to write fraud losses off, so I do believe they're partly to blame for fraud in their apathy.
    A lot of the time credit card companies are not liable for the loss because of credit card fraud, which is charged back to the merchants.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    A lot of the time credit card companies are not liable for the loss because of credit card fraud, which is charged back to the merchants.
    Keep in mind that it is largely up to the merchants who take credit cards to decide how much risk to take.

    For example, this would be fixed if Lego only shipped to the billing address of the credit card.

    I am selling a 10143 on eBay right now, I just got an email from someone wanting me to ship somewhere other than the PayPal confirmed address. Now in fairness, the ship to address is only a few miles from the bill to address, it is his work address he says. However if I do it, paypal will not cover me on a "not received" claim, so I turned the buyer down. He also wanted it shipped overnight, which is the first time I've ever been asked that.

    It could all be on the up and up, the story the guy had was reasonable, the english was very good, the problem is, for a thousand dollar set, it isn't worth the risk...
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    , on the other other hand, offer little constructive feedback and get irrationally defensive about the comments you are getting from the community telling you that what you've been doing is not ok.
    he wants his free Lego, what is to understand?
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,806
    edited May 2012
    It could all be on the up and up, the story the guy had was reasonable, the english was very good, the problem is, for a thousand dollar set, it isn't worth the risk...
    And I think that is why you have to reject those requests.. If something is not expensive and they explain why they need to ship to another address Ill do it, but for 1000 bucks they would get it where-ever paypal tells me to send it.
  • romdamromdam Member Posts: 136
    , on the other other hand, offer little constructive feedback and get irrationally defensive about the comments you are getting from the community telling you that what you've been doing is not ok.
    he wants his free Lego, what is to understand?
    If you all could read and understand the ENGLISH language, I am not getting mad and irrationlly defense about having bought sets. It is the fact that noone is understanding what is all going on here. I could give two craps about "free Lego". I am telling you how things are going on. Yes, the two were emailed about being "recruited". That is coming from the bottom link, not the higher up in the chain.

    Here is another bit. They are only given a certain amounts of those certain sets to sell during a certain amount of time. AGAIN, they are told which sets to sell when. I don't understand why people think this is all about me. You think you know what is going on but I am trying to tell you more. It's not hard to figure out. I tell you be careful you you report these to, as this helps the sellers. But no, I am offering nothing constructive. I tell you brickilink will have these people shortly, if not already, but that's nothing constructive.

    But no, it's all about me I guess.

  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    @romdam - please just drop it and move on.
  • AFFOL_Shellz_BellzAFFOL_Shellz_Bellz Member Posts: 1,263
    edited May 2012
    ^^ And we're supposed to believe you know exactly how this group of scammers works because? You've not mentioned anything about being a fraud investigator or given us any reason to believe you know what you're talking about. So why should we believe you know the inside scoop on how these scammers work and what they know and don't know?
  • starfire2starfire2 Phoenix AZMember Posts: 1,329
    @romdam: I think what most people are feeling/thinking, is this : If it happened to you once (drop shipped) then that is unfortunate. If it happens to you a second time then you are unlucky. If this happens to you a third, fourth and fifth time then it appears as if you are seeking out the criminals to be a part of their scam. Especially IF you lie to LEGO customer service and tell them you no longer have the sets, or you gave them away. I don't know you personally but some of the comments you have made appear as if you are doing this just to get something for nothing. Drop shippers, bar code switchers, shop lifters all give us honest collectors and lovers of LEGO a bad name.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    @ Everyone - I have already asked @romdam to drop this so please stop exacerbating the issue. Let's just let it go.
  • 260madison260madison Member Posts: 50
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aag/main?ie=UTF8&asin=B003A2JCR2&isAmazonFulfilled=0&tag=noref-20&isCBA=&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&seller=A1IV3OOM9TI4TD

    back on the subject, what do you guys think about this seller? no feedback, new seller with the usual suspects (train sets, $100+ sets only)

    but here is the tell tale part for me, the seller says "Limit of 2 per customer/household. We do not ship to forwarder address and business address. Brand New, Factory Sealed"

    correct me if i am wrong.
  • muffenmanmuffenman Member Posts: 75
    Ok so this got my attention today A seller on ebay selling as Yet unreleased Star wars planet/min fiq sets (series 2)

    ebay.co.uk/itm/LEGO-STAR-WARS-2012-9677-9678-9679-Series-2-New-Sealed-Not-Yet-Released-/120920464027?pt=UK_Construction_Toys_Kits&hash=item1c276bda9b#ht_1284wt_1185

    Ready to post, in hand has photo of them that looks like he took it him self!!
  • LegobrandonCPLegobrandonCP CanadaMember Posts: 1,914
    ^ They might be unreleased in North America but the seller could of have found it in his local toy shop. I've even seen reviews on some summer Friends sets on Eurobricks. So you never know.
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    ^^ Lol everything that Amazon seller is offering is without a doubt stolen.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    ^^^ They're available in some parts of Europe already...
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