Next Expert Train?

CCC · July 2017

SumoLego said:

CCC said:

Bumblepants said:

It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

And a sizeable investment in floor space!

I think you mean a sizeable investment in storage space that happens to have a table-height platform above it.

I've got kids. The floor is the storage space.

Paperballpark · July 2017

Astrobricks said:

@Paperballpark are there pictures of your train station somewhere? I'd love to see that.

Yes, I've displayed it at a few shows (twice in collaboration). You can see it on my Flickr stream here, here and here.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA said:

That's also around 95 METRES of straight track alone so it MAY be considered by some to be a complete overkill!
GLORIOUS.
MAGNIFICENT.
OVERKILL!

Oh yes! I had the opportunity a few years ago to get a load of it cheap, so I worked out how much I needed for my station layout, then doubled it. And then I doubled it again, just in case! ;)

And despite having displayed it at seven shows, I've never quite managed to use all that track in one layout. The main problem is that despite owning a lot of baseplates now, I've never owned quite enough to cover the amount of display space that all the track would take up. Also, there's virtually no UK shows which have - or are willing to give you - the space such a layout would require. The largest I did was 9m x 4m (about 30ft x 13ft) at two shows last year, but that was in collaboration with another train guy who specialises in doing scenery.

Still, at least I've never run out of track! :D

Thoughtsonblocks · July 2017

Wow, forgot about their trains! That picture jogged my memory of having some of those when I was a kid. They were surprisingly decent quality. Similar toys now days have noticeably poorer quality paint application and detailing.

piratemania7 · July 2017

Bumblepants said:

^yeah the size oval you get from a typical set is pretty pathetic. It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

Coupled with numerous road plates to make a nice layout equals lots of cash.

piratemania7 · July 2017

SumoLego said:

CCC said:

Bumblepants said:

It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

And a sizeable investment in floor space!

I think you mean a sizeable investment in storage space that happens to have a table-height platform above it.

My thought too.

nkx1 · July 2017

piratemania7 said:

Bumblepants said:

^yeah the size oval you get from a typical set is pretty pathetic. It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

Coupled with numerous road plates to make a nice layout equals lots of cash.

If your pieces don't have to say "Lego" on them, road plates and track pieces can be had for a substantially smaller investment.

SumoLego · July 2017

^Bah! Everyone should have 20 or so extra 4-way roadplates.

stlux · July 2017

Ha! By building 100% brick-built roads, I have 0 extra 4-way roadplates!

The hole in my wallet is some magnitude larger though...

graphite · July 2017

stlux said:

Ha! By building 100% brick-built roads, I have 0 extra 4-way roadplates!

The hole in my wallet is some magnitude larger though...

Same here.

piratemania7 · July 2017

Love it. Per usual. Off topic. What do road plates have to do with the next expert train.

sid3windr · July 2017

What next expert train? :D

SumoLego · July 2017

piratemania7 said:

Love it. Per usual. Off topic. What do road plates have to do with the next expert train.

Um, some guy named @piratemania7 started us on the dark path by mentioning roadplates:

piratemania7 said:

Bumblepants said:

^yeah the size oval you get from a typical set is pretty pathetic. It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

Coupled with numerous road plates to make a nice layout equals lots of cash.

I..... ronic!

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA · July 2017

Blue Choo Choo
(Is that better?)

Bumblepants · July 2017

Remember that time last year we all got hyped at the set name 'Creator Blue Express' and it turned out to be a $5 set? I 'member.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA · July 2017

Remember that time eight years ago that we all got hyped at the set named 'Emerald Night' and it turned out to not work very well straight out of the box? I 'member.

Sometimes it's amazing how much insects and ducks have in common.

The two things you CAN take to the bank? Its AT LEAST a year away and it looks NOTHING like a Metroliner rehash (despite what some people may tell you)

piratemania7 · July 2017

SumoLego said:

piratemania7 said:

Love it. Per usual. Off topic. What do road plates have to do with the next expert train.

Um, some guy named @piratemania7 started us on the dark path by mentioning roadplates:

piratemania7 said:

Bumblepants said:

^yeah the size oval you get from a typical set is pretty pathetic. It takes a sizeable investment in track packs to get a layout that is enjoyable.

Coupled with numerous road plates to make a nice layout equals lots of cash.

I..... ronic!

Ahh your write!

Russell844 · July 2017

Bumblepants said:

Remember that time last year we all got hyped at the set name 'Creator Blue Express' and it turned out to be a $5 set? I 'member.

Same thing happened with the Emerald Express and the Christmas Train polybag.

Astrobricks · July 2017

Paperballpark said:

Astrobricks said:

@Paperballpark are there pictures of your train station somewhere? I'd love to see that.

Yes, I've displayed it at a few shows (twice in collaboration). You can see it on my Flickr stream here, here and here.

MAGNINOMINISUMBRA said:

That's also around 95 METRES of straight track alone so it MAY be considered by some to be a complete overkill!
GLORIOUS.
MAGNIFICENT.
OVERKILL!

Oh yes! I had the opportunity a few years ago to get a load of it cheap, so I worked out how much I needed for my station layout, then doubled it. And then I doubled it again, just in case! ;)

And despite having displayed it at seven shows, I've never quite managed to use all that track in one layout. The main problem is that despite owning a lot of baseplates now, I've never owned quite enough to cover the amount of display space that all the track would take up. Also, there's virtually no UK shows which have - or are willing to give you - the space such a layout would require. The largest I did was 9m x 4m (about 30ft x 13ft) at two shows last year, but that was in collaboration with another train guy who specialises in doing scenery.

Still, at least I've never run out of track! :D

Wow, that train station is amazing!

KingDave · June 2020

So I am resurrecting this thread, a full 7 years after #10233 Horizon Express we are now getting #10277 Crocodile Locomotive. No idea why they took so long but this new train looks awesome.

Fauch · June 2020

Because creator expert trains only appealed to train fans, so they chose the most obvious train model to appeal to a larger audience.

KingDave · June 2020

The re-sale value of the expert trains would point to a high demand. They are also very good entry points for people coming out of their dark ages in the same way as the rash of big technics sports cars in recent years.

autolycus · June 2020

KingDave said:

The re-sale value of the expert trains would point to a high demand. They are also very good entry points for people coming out of their dark ages in the same way as the rash of big technics sports cars in recent years.

Jamie Berard has said several times that the trains generally don't seem to sell outside of train fans, and that market alone isn't enough to support new products. They did the Disney train as an effort to appeal to both train and Disney fans. They set up the Crocodile as a display piece in the hopes that it will sell to train fans and to others who might want something interesting and different as an office or home decoration. I hope for all the train fans that it works and sells really well.

Astrobricks · June 2020

I don’t know if my thinking is common, but while train sets appeal to me, I don’t buy them because I have nowhere to set up track.

madforLEGO · June 2020

KingDave said:

The re-sale value of the expert trains would point to a high demand. They are also very good entry points for people coming out of their dark ages in the same way as the rash of big technics sports cars in recent years.

I love the trains them and have almost every train set from 1980 til now, but to me, the resale value of expert trains does not point to a demand. It only points to a low supply of them in the aftermarket (especially new in box) compared to average demand. While there are new train fans every year (many may be l was and came back from my 'dark ages' when I wanted to get into LEGO trains) the overall demand for the train theme is somewhat low. I think people forget (or were not buying LEGO then) when the Emerald Night was out, LEGO had to discount their remaining stock to sell them off after their end of line (plus they could not really take a std LEGO curve either), I think the same with the Maersk train (discount that is). The Horizon Express was not that much in demand (partly due to design and partly due to price point) so I do not think LEGO made many to begin with. All of these examples point more toward collectors who want them but not enough to spur LEGO into making them a regular thing anymore

Then there is the price points to get into LEGO trains. LEGO charging 160 USD for a Passenger train, and 230USD for a Cargo train does not help their cause any) (and no c station is currently made). LEGO has tried different angles to attract LEGO fans to the train theme: My Own Trains being the biggest, but at the end of the day it gets pricey.

Also, as @Astrobricks notes, the space constraints also do not help with trains being purchased by most fans (or fans that like the City theme for example). A std LEGO 180 degree curve is something like 3+Ft, a large foot print for a kids layout.

Finally, as for the Technic comparisons, Im not sure that is a great example. Technic (especially the larger car sets) are more to be displayed than played with (and their price point is definitely not for entry level LEGO fans). When I see a train the first I think about is running it around a track and not necessarily just displaying it on a wall or shelf. Plus LEGO has always seen Train as part of City and therefore want to see kids (or more notably, their parents buying them).

Does this train mean that maybe LEGO is starting to gear trains toward Collectors only? I'm not sure, given the pricey points of their current city line trains you have to be 'well heeled' to get into them for yourself or your children.

I will be getting this train, as this one has an especially good price point (IMO), but I'm sure that is that way due to no power functions with it, or enough track to make an oval.

Mynatt · June 2020

I think it is a very smart move to include the display stand. I hope that LEGO is right that the packaging and display aspect will appeal to more buyers.

I am just surprised that this is the train they decided to go for. I think something like the Flying Scottsman or the Mallard would be more of an appeal. Not to mention the bright colors would help it pop on the shelf.

playwell · June 2020

The Emerald Night is very Flying Scottsman like in looks but a Mallard would be great.

Paperballpark · June 2020

I built my own version of the Flying Scotsman about 5 years ago. The large Lego train wheels are too small for it (and therefore would be for the Mallard too). I used Big Ben Bricks' XL train wheels, and got them overprinted with green printing.

560Heliport · June 2020

Wow! More pictures, please!

CCC · June 2020

The big downsides of Lego collectable trains are that Lego don't make enough of them to make a collection to appeal to train collectors, and they are more expensive, less detailed and larger than scale models that train collectors often collect.

Bumblepants · June 2020

I wish they would just add something like a Trains Xtra pack. $10-20 with the wheels, couplings, etc. It's cumbersome to try and get what you need off B&P. (Although the move away from the metal axles might have helped)

stlux · June 2020

CCC said:

The big downsides of Lego collectable trains are that Lego don't make enough of them to make a collection to appeal to train collectors, and they are more expensive, less detailed and larger than scale models that train collectors often collect.

Having looked at the current model train market offering earlier this week (reminiscing about the trains we had as kids), I can assure you that Lego trains being more expensive doesn't apply 😉

The starter boxes for kids might be cheap - e.g. Märklin will sell you a mostly plastic ICE with track and a controller for well under EUR 100. The model for adults on the other hand has an RRP of EUR 750...

Märklin's Ce 6/8 Crocodile has an RRP of EUR 300. Their 100 year anniversary edition of this iconic train was a breathtaking EUR 1100.

Price ranges for other brands seem to be fairly similar.

Lego_Lord_Mayorca · June 2020

I can second what @stlux said, as it applies to the USA as well. For a time in my childhood, I wanted to go hard into model railroading at N-scale (I already owned HO-scale trains, but N-scale was small enough for my limited space in my house). Even at N-scale, which is pretty small (a locomotive is about as wide as a finger), everything was expensive! The first locomotive I bought at a hobby store back in the late 90s was $26! Adjust that for inflation, and you know that is expensive for a tiny motor and plastic shell. Then you throw in track, rolling stock, buildings, electrical components...it makes LEGO Trains look like a peasants' toy. Before I gave up the model railroading dream, I was saving money by learning how to build simple buildings and structures out of cardboard. I was that serious about making a good layout. But then LEGO Star Wars came along, and I had to make a choice. Bye-bye model trains!

Nowadays, I am so glad I finally have a LEGO train collection. It's mostly 9V, but it hasn't been so expensive because aside from the train sets themselves and a few related buildings (helloooo Metro Station!), I didn't really need anything else for a good layout. After decades of making a LEGO Town, plus the advent of Modular Buildings, I already have a layout!

Like most, I hope LEGO is working on a Mallard A4 for 2022. Hopefully, part of the process is designing some new pieces that can be used in many sets for curves and will bring some extra realism to the Mallard.

Paperballpark · June 2020

560Heliport said:

Wow! More pictures, please!

Oh and it has Power Functions integrated into it.

Mr_Cross · June 2020

@Paperballpark That is wonderful work!

Astrobricks · June 2020

More pictures of that train station please!

Modeltrainman · June 2020

@Paperballpark
*grabs dropped eyes and jaw*
@Bumblepants, *would buy multiples of an Xtras train kit*

Paperballpark · June 2020

Astrobricks said:

More pictures of that train station please!

You mean this little thing?

That's a photo from STEAM in 2015, the first time I displayed it. Below is a photo from STEAM 2016:

Below is a photo from Bricktastic in 2016 when I did a collaboration with Tim Ross on a 9m (30ft) x 4m (13ft) display. He did the scenery and I did the trains.

I have more photos, but they're on Flickr. The ones above are the only ones I have easily to hand.

The last place I displayed it was at Cotswold Bricks and Trains in 2017. I had 7 trains running at once on the layout there.

Redbullgivesuwind · June 2020

^That is not accurate to Manchester Piccadilly, you need to have all the trains stacked outside of the station for two hours as the points have failed and there is a train stuck at the platform.

Mr_Cross · June 2020

^Ah, but this is Brickadilly, where all the trains run like blockwork!

Sorry.

Redbullgivesuwind · June 2020

Mr_Cross said:

^Ah, but this is Brickadilly, where all the trains run like blockwork!

Sorry.

I would groan, but, I am so acclimatised to the bad jokes on here I now actually laugh at them.

560Heliport · June 2020

@Paperballpark Thanks!

Bumblepants · June 2020

On the new Croc I really appreciate the SNOTwork under the main windowframe parts to avoid unsightly gaps that would have occurred by just stacking 2x2 angled corner bricks. A great attention to detail.

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