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Politician "demanding" a new inclusive roadplate for bikes

LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
Here is a good one, while more product variety would be more than welcome by LEGO I think these people have decided to make it a political situation:
While bikes are a better method of transportation than cars in my LEGO City since it's under construction my minifigures prefer to walk to work or even ride Dinosaurs:

Comments

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,988
    Many countries don't have cycle lanes. Also there is nothing to say that road plates are actually roads. If users want them to be cycle tracks, nothing stops them. 

    Plus LEGO cars are not powered by internal combustion engines. They are push along! Although they could easily represent electric cars too.
    madforLEGOCharmiefcbLordmoralgmonkey76
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    CCC said:
    Many countries don't have cycle lanes. Also there is nothing to say that road plates are actually roads. If users want them to be cycle tracks, nothing stops them. 

    Plus LEGO cars are not powered by internal combustion engines. They are push along! Although they could easily represent electric cars too.
    I honestly suspect that politician and the article writers just want attention.
    LusiferSam
  • datsunrobbiedatsunrobbie West Haven , CTMember Posts: 1,573
    Instead of altering the baseplate, just use tiles to make a bike lane if you want one.
    LordmoralCyberdragon
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    Instead of altering the baseplate, just use tiles to make a bike lane if you want one.
    It's as the politician and the magazine just don't understand LEGO.
  • pxchrispxchris Oregon, USAMember Posts: 919
    🤣 🤣 🤣 

    😂

    OK, I'm done now. 
    LordmoralCymbeline
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,139
    Is it weird that I install plastic-burning internal combustion engines in all of my LEGO vehicles?

    Politicians looking for headlines based in incorrect information?  Never!

    Also, I won the Iowa Caucusessesessesessseseess.
    Lordmoral560Heliportdavetheoxygenmangmonkey76
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    MrJackson said:
    Brickadelphia actually has a ban on minifigures using bicycles as transportation. This comes from my own personal experience with bicyclists: I, as an automobile driver, am expected to follow the rules of the road, but bicyclists apparently only have to when it's convenient for them. I can't tell you how many times I've had a green light at a major intersection only to not be able to go because an opposing bicyclist decides their red light doesn't apply to them.  I almost got slammed into by a bicyclist last summer at the beach at an intersection: the guy in the SUV stopped to let me, who was carrying my 2 year old son, across, and the bicyclist came within a hair's-breadth of slamming into the both of us.  Think he stopped? Or even realized we were there? I was recounting this story to a guy I work with who's a big bike-rider and said that if he's at the bottom of a hill, he isn't necessarily going to stop for the stop sign so that he doesn't lose momentum going back up the hill.  I told him that if you don't feel like pedaling, drive a car

    The streets are for cars. You want to ride a bike, sign up for the Tour de France. Don't get me started about how the face of bicycling is a convicted doper and cheater who had his medals stripped. 

    Needless to say, this is a bit of pet peeve of mine. 
    Just today I stopped at a red light and a cyclist decided to ignore it, the cops have warned that they are subject to law so for the most part I dont mind people riding bicycles on the roads so long as they follow the law. 
    LusiferSam
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Twin Cities, MN, USAMember Posts: 1,893
    I have have total respect for bicyclists who obey the traffic laws... and none whatsoever for those who don't. 
    LordmoralLusiferSam
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    SumoLego said:
    Is it weird that I install plastic-burning internal combustion engines in all of my LEGO vehicles?

    Politicians looking for headlines based in incorrect information?  Never!

    Also, I won the Iowa Caucusessesessesessseseess.
    How did it felt winning the Iowa caucus? Will you vouch for free LEGO for everybody, jokimg aside the politician in the story started saying he felt strange not seeing a lane dedicated for zero emissions vehicles.
  • benbacardibenbacardi EnglandMember Posts: 594
    I definitely don't agree that "the streets are for cars", but I do agree that cyclists who ignore the rules of the road shouldn't be on them. But that equally applies to motorists too… 
    Lordmoral560HeliportLusiferSamCharmiefcb
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    I definitely don't agree that "the streets are for cars", but I do agree that cyclists who ignore the rules of the road shouldn't be on them. But that equally applies to motorists too… 
    Thank you, but what about people riding dinosaurs?
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,524
    MrJackson said:
    Brickadelphia actually has a ban on minifigures using bicycles as transportation. This comes from my own personal experience with bicyclists: I, as an automobile driver, am expected to follow the rules of the road, but bicyclists apparently only have to when it's convenient for them. I can't tell you how many times I've had a green light at a major intersection only to not be able to go because an opposing bicyclist decides their red light doesn't apply to them.  I almost got slammed into by a bicyclist last summer at the beach at an intersection: the guy in the SUV stopped to let me, who was carrying my 2 year old son, across, and the bicyclist came within a hair's-breadth of slamming into the both of us.  Think he stopped? Or even realized we were there? I was recounting this story to a guy I work with who's a big bike-rider and said that if he's at the bottom of a hill, he isn't necessarily going to stop for the stop sign so that he doesn't lose momentum going back up the hill.  I told him that if you don't feel like pedaling, drive a car

    The streets are for cars. You want to ride a bike, sign up for the Tour de France. Don't get me started about how the face of bicycling is a convicted doper and cheater who had his medals stripped. 

    Needless to say, this is a bit of pet peeve of mine. 
       I can't like this comment enough because of my own exact experiences with bicycle riders. A million likes to you. 
    LordmoraldatsunrobbieM1J0Edavetheoxygenmangmonkey76SumoLego
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,877
    This topic title seems inaccurate — nothing about the article in question describes anybody "demanding" anything, just a parent who's disappointed about the lack of bike lanes and hoping that LEGO can be convinced to change that.

    I don't feel like that's an unreasonable thing to feel disappointed about, especially in a country like the Netherlands where bikes are a pretty standard means of transportation. After all, one of the purported strengths of the old-school Town Plan sets was how they helped kids to learn to understand and think about traffic patterns and road safety organically via play. What's more, many old-school road plates DID include a studless shoulder wide enough to function as a bike path — which has since been eliminated to make room for wider travel lanes.

    Honestly, stuff like this is a big part of why I feel like LEGO ought to work on introducing a new road system entirely. For all that AFOLs tend to complain about giant, hyper-specialized elements, road plates really exemplify all those characteristics. The fixed number of lanes, fixed placement of crosswalks/road markings, mandatory horizontal terrain, lack of connection points underneath, and forcing of town layouts into a rectangular grid of 32x32 segments all impede creativity in considerable ways.

    Even something as basic as securely adding a median can't be done without using even MORE specialized road elements that have been retired for decades, some of which hardly ever appeared in sets when they were current! Plus, road plates with a fixed, studded "curb" are a lot of trouble to integrate with sets that contain built-in curbs or driveways, including the Modular Buildings as well as much older sets like https://brickset.com/sets/6416-1/Poolside-Paradise and

    AFOLs can (and do) work around this with custom brick-built roads, but I don't see why this outdated system should remain the baseline for all-ages LEGO play. After all, if LEGO was able to create a much more versatile and customizable system for LEGO train tracks a good 30 years ago and stick with it ever since, why can't they find a road system that improves on at least some of these faults?

    All in all, I am not super invested in bike lanes for any sort of political reason (at least, outside of a preference for more pedestrian-friendly and less automobile-centric urban planning in general). But LEGO road plates are frustratingly prescriptive in general. And a parent desiring the option of LEGO roads that reflect the standards in many parts of the world and the lives of many people is hardly a frivolous ideological stance.

    benbacardiizxstlux
  • madejp86madejp86 IllinoisMember Posts: 276
    Little man has been loving the Lego Trains later especially the High Speed Passenger train so I started looking for a train station but Lego has no made one in a while and the latest one is crazy high in price. Where is the new lego train station?
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,877
    Instead of altering the baseplate, just use tiles to make a bike lane if you want one.
    If only it were so easy! But this is not really an option for intersections with marked bike lanes, which are common in the Netherlands and also in some U.S. and Canadian cities.
    MrJackson said:
    Brickadelphia actually has a ban on minifigures using bicycles as transportation. This comes from my own personal experience with bicyclists: I, as an automobile driver, am expected to follow the rules of the road, but bicyclists apparently only have to when it's convenient for them. I can't tell you how many times I've had a green light at a major intersection only to not be able to go because an opposing bicyclist decides their red light doesn't apply to them.  I almost got slammed into by a bicyclist last summer at the beach at an intersection: the guy in the SUV stopped to let me, who was carrying my 2 year old son, across, and the bicyclist came within a hair's-breadth of slamming into the both of us.  Think he stopped? Or even realized we were there? I was recounting this story to a guy I work with who's a big bike-rider and said that if he's at the bottom of a hill, he isn't necessarily going to stop for the stop sign so that he doesn't lose momentum going back up the hill.  I told him that if you don't feel like pedaling, drive a car

    The streets are for cars. You want to ride a bike, sign up for the Tour de France. Don't get me started about how the face of bicycling is a convicted doper and cheater who had his medals stripped.
    Do you realize that part of the point of bike lanes is to make it so cyclists and drivers don't need to cross paths except at intersections, reducing the danger to both parties?

    Also, the idea that "the streets are for cars" is the product of historical revisionism. Before automobiles were as widely used as they are today, cyclists, pedestrians, equestrians, and carriage drivers shared the roads.

    Automotive companies spent lots of money on lobbying and propaganda campaigns to prioritize automobile traffic over pedestrian traffic and to blame non-drivers for their own injuries or deaths in traffic collisions (thereby minimizing negative press that could impact their profitability).

    Obviously from a practical standpoint, you're right that being on a street without being behind the wheel of a motor vehicle usually amounts to taking your life into your own hands. But I think it's important to recognize that most streets from before the 20th century were not created with cars in mind, but rather repurposed for cars after the fact.

    So it shouldn't be surprising when that imperfect transition continues to cause problems in a lot of cities — whether it's a lack of safe transit options for non-drivers, or persistent traffic slowdowns in big cities where the streets were simply never planned to handle so many cars at once.

    Jumping off of this point, even a lot of the roads that ARE specifically made for drivers like four-lane freeways/expressways are themselves poorly represented by LEGO road plates — so replacing them with a newer, more customizable road system would benefit that type of driver-focused infrastructure as well!
    560HeliportTkattizxvizzitorstluxomnium
  • MrJacksonMrJackson Member Posts: 394
    This is literally my point: in my experience, bicyclists don't abide the etiquette of intersections, choosing to go when it's convenient for them regardless of traffic patterns.

    "Also, the idea that 'the streets are for cars' is the product of historical revisionism. Before automobiles were as widely used as they are today, cyclists, pedestrians, equestrians, and carriage drivers shared the roads."

    This is nonsense. "Historical revisionism"???!??! The modern concept of the road derives from the Roman road network: arced in the middle to allow runoff, with a multilayer foundation to support weight distribution. The whole point of roads was to allow the Roman army to access the disparate areas of the empire. The modern US Interstate system, as conceived by Eisenhower in the 1950's, was designed so that the US military could easily get to any part of the county in the event of an issue or kerfuffle with the Soviet Union.  Pedestrian access was simply a bonus. 
    Lordmoraldavetheoxygenmangmonkey76
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,485
    instead of road baseplates it could simply be printed tiles. you could make it easy by using 8x16 tiles for a road that would be 16 studs wide, or smaller tiles with like just one line on them.
    Lordmoral
  • izxizx USAMember Posts: 36
    MrJackson said:
    The modern US Interstate system, ...  Pedestrian access was simply a bonus. 
    Does not compute. We're talking about local streets, not (controlled-access) freeways.

    That said, I do agree that it's well past time for LEGO to revamp the road 'system'. But the vast majority of kids--these days at least--aren't into making city layouts, so I doubt there's any incentive for LEGO to do so.
    madejp86 said:
    Little man has been loving the Lego Trains later especially the High Speed Passenger train so I started looking for a train station but Lego has no made one in a while and the latest one is crazy high in price. Where is the new lego train station?
    60050 can be bricklinked for WAY cheaper -- think $50-ish -- without making any compromises (less if you don't need the original minifigs). Other than that, nothing on the horizon unless LEGO takes a shine to this idea.
  • panchox1panchox1 The Outer RimMember Posts: 468
    madejp86 said:
    Little man has been loving the Lego Trains later especially the High Speed Passenger train so I started looking for a train station but Lego has no made one in a while and the latest one is crazy high in price. Where is the new lego train station?

    The Hidden Side train has a nice little station included with it.
    klinton
  • CyberdragonCyberdragon Maryland, U.S.AMember Posts: 493
    How about you just paint bike lines on? (queue infuriated purists)

    Lego is about building things out of standardized parts, they may have had bike lane roads in the past, but they also had much less parts in general, stuff gets retired for a reason. There would have to be enough demand or a new set planned for them to add new parts to production, otherwise it would just not be worth it. Lego is not meant to to be a perfect city planning analog, it's a model building toy. It just seems a bit nitpicky.

    It would be like complaining that when building roads in Minecraft you don't have perfect corners or smooth round slopes (even with mods there would still be sharp angles).
    Lordmoral
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,988
    The answer is simple, and many families already do this. Get a piece of wood and paint it with roads, grass, lakes, etc. My dad did it for me in the 1970s. I did it for my kids.

    You get what you want on the base, the size is customisable and it is significantly cheaper than lego baseplates.

    If only sheets of wood or MDF were available in The Netherlands.


    Lordmoraldrdavewatfordomniumklinton
  • omniumomnium Brickenham, UKMember Posts: 815
    It's as if the word "cyclist" was never invented.
    Lordmoral
  • daewoodaewoo TexasMember Posts: 455
    I agree that Lego should rethink how they do roads.  Baseplates are limiting and I HATE the fact that you can't buy just straights or curves or intersections, but instead they come bundled, so you end up with a bunch of plates you don't want or need.  They don't even make them available via LUGBulk.  Hrmph!
    LordmoralCymbeline
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    daewoo said:
    I agree that Lego should rethink how they do roads.  Baseplates are limiting and I HATE the fact that you can't buy just straights or curves or intersections, but instead they come bundled, so you end up with a bunch of plates you don't want or need.  They don't even make them available via LUGBulk.  Hrmph!
    Nor Brick and Pieces extra bricks market. Like I stated they could desing more plates to give us a better choice of sets and more $$$ for them.
  • LordmoralLordmoral Puerto RicoMember Posts: 705
    Only vaguely related but there is some doofus aerobic walker in my current neighborhood who chooses to ignore the perfectly smooth sidewalks (pavement) built just for people like him and strut his stuff not just in the street, but at least 1M away from the edge. It is like he wants to be hit by a truck. Anyway he pisses me off and this thread reminded me of it and now I am pissed at that guy again. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
    Well your welcome for providing you some place to vent, I also love those pedestrians.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,988
    Only vaguely related but there is some doofus aerobic walker in my current neighborhood who chooses to ignore the perfectly smooth sidewalks (pavement) built just for people like him and strut his stuff not just in the street, but at least 1M away from the edge. It is like he wants to be hit by a truck. Anyway he pisses me off and this thread reminded me of it and now I am pissed at that guy again. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
    It is probably the opposite. By being in the road he is seen, whereas being at the kerb is not being seen. Although at walking speed he should be on the pavement. Similarly joggers / runners in the cycle lanes piss me off. They don't have wheels, and do not run at anywhere near the speed of even modest cyclists. They are closer to pedestrians than bicycles.

    I cycle a lot, and here the advice is to be in the traffic rather than to be at the curb.  (see here: https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/how-to/road-positioning )

    The idea is that if you are at the kerb, then you are likely to be going over drain covers, poorly finished edges, glass, etc plus you get hit by car doors opening at the edge of the road and drivers rush past you. Whereas if you are out further, then you are seen by motorists, you miss all the road edge obstacles, and so on. Also the cars have to properly overtake you, rather than zoom past you. It is often safer to be in the traffic, than be at the side of it.

    I know some drivers think that cyclists away from the kerb are a PITA, but it is only because of the stupid PITA drivers that refuse to acknowledge cyclists that is is necessary. Of course, having distinct cycle lanes would be great if only they were not used as car parks by drivers and also maintained so that they are not completely pot-holed, have frequent drains in them and full of road debris.


  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,139
    I like PITA with hummus.
    davetheoxygenman
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 1,186
    Cyclists here are just complete asshats. I generally walk to work if there's no rain in the forecast and I'm constantly at odds with cyclists who behave like pedestrians or cars, depending on which is most convenient for them in that moment. I've never once in 15 years of making my daily trek had an issue with a motorist, but as the weather warms, my walk gets more and more adventurous as those... people... take to the bikes. We have an elaborate system of marked paths for them here, and very distinct regulations for their conduct (and an overzealous police force who generously disburse fines for transgressions)... but they are a constant, unrelenting hazard.
    I get that car culture needs to change, but there has to be something better than these people. They're a nuisance.
    Lordmoralpanchox1
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,988
    klinton said:
    ... I'm constantly at odds with cyclists who behave like pedestrians or cars, depending on which is most convenient for them in that moment. ...

    ... We have an elaborate system of marked paths for them here ...
    I don't know what your infrastructure is like there. Here, it is quite poor. Cyclists often have to behave partly like cars and partly like pedestrians as there is no separate infrastructure for them. Sometimes a cycle path will be marked in the road, then on the pavement, then not at all. Cycle paths are an afterthought. The Netherlands is great compared to here - they have clearly separate paths from both the pavement and the road (at least in towns), with kerbs in between all three at both sides. They planned properly and people can safely use them and so people do use them.
    Lordmoral
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