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Negotiation Nightmares

Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
in Buying & Selling Topics
Do you have a story of a negotiation or sale/trade that went bad? If so; I want to hear them. 

*If your story involves someone in the forum or on Brickset; please do not use their name. We want to keep within the rules of the forum.

Cheers :)
FizyxKungFuKennykiki180703
«1

Comments

  • dmcc0dmcc0 Nae far fae AberdeenMember Posts: 778
    ^Wanting to get something off your chest? ;)
    KungFuKennyBludchylde1Pitfall69LegoboySprinkleOtterstarwars4ever
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,312
    edited November 2019
    I'm currently still waiting for some Series 19 CMFs that I bought from eBay, but the seller, who looked like an established business seller with over 700 feedback and over 99% positive, sent an update a couple of weeks ago that there had been a major theft of packages from a Royal Mail depot and that a load of parcels sent around the time mine was dispatched may have been lost. Since then he has not replied at all, made his feedback private and now has nothing for sale at all. His rating is now down around 91% and nearly all negative within the last month or so. Looks like a serious problem...
    I've raised a case with eBay, so should hopefully get money back, but I'm disappointed, as I had managed to get all the ones I wanted from him. :-(
    FizyxFowlerBricksPitfall69Jackad7
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    edited November 2019
    I was wearing pants...

    ...er, must've been someone else.  Confusion.
    Pitfall69M1J0EFizyxgmonkey76davetheoxygenmanBaby_YodaSprinkleOtter
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    hoodaddy said:
    I met a forum member at their house once for a trade as I was in town for something else. Nothing really went wrong but they had a really ugly rug in the entryway...
    I think I heard this one before ;)
    BumblepantsM1J0EFizyxdavetheoxygenmanSprinkleOtter
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    Brainslugged said:
    hoodaddy said:
    I met a forum member at their house once for a trade as I was in town for something else. Nothing really went wrong but they had a really ugly rug in the entryway...
    Next time just firmly, but politely, ask her to put some clothes on.
    I would imagine the rug didn't match the drapes.
    M1J0EFizyxFireheartdavetheoxygenmanSprinkleOtterLinuxBrickie
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    @JudgeChuck ; I once got a letter from the US Postal Service telling me that mail that was on it's way to me was on a truck that caught on fire and everything on that truck was destroyed. I should have saved the letter and framed it. 

    Thing is; stuff like this DOES happen and if that seller was honest about things; he would have communicated that with you and his other buyers. It's an unfortunate situation. I'm more than sure you'll get your money back. If you were here in the States, I'd sell you a set. I have an extra one since a buyer reneged on our deal.
    FizyxJudgeChuckLobotandheSprinkleOtter
  • M1J0EM1J0E Calgary, ABMember Posts: 644
    Stuff like that definitely does happen.  The worst I had was waiting 6 weeks for a BrickLink to show up from within country where it would normally take a week.  Seller was good about communicating, but without having any tracking info, I’m not sure what we would’ve done if it failed to show up.  
    Fizyx
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,897
    Not lego related but I ordered a custom made 8th Doctor custom made coat via etsy. Was meant to arrive on 26th October for a party. Intially had lots of communication about it, then it all went quiet. Twice the seller assured me it was on its way. Never turned up. Requests for a tracking number were never answered. I have opened a case with Etsy but it was a waste of £150 quid.
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,312
    @Pitfall69 @M1J0E Yes, I'm not questioning the truth of the matter, but very disappointed by his complete shutdown and lack of communication, after the initial generic response. He's obviously had a lot of stuff go missing and, rather than dealing with it, he's just going to start over again under another account and leave eBay to sort the mess out.
    M1J0E
  • piratemania7piratemania7 New EnglandMember Posts: 2,135
    Not a nightmare. But I once had a package go West instead of East before arriving - 2 days turned into a week. : )
  • Speedman29Speedman29 UKMember Posts: 1,716
    Bought the last few pieces required for a MOC from a BL seller a couple of years ago. The guys shop clearly stated he shipped all his orders within 2 days 1st class RM. Ordered on a monday and expected delivery by the friday. Nothing arrived that weekend either, finally turned up the following Friday with a post mark of the previous day. I'd messaged and got nothing. Messaged again regarding the huge delay in actually shipping, taking 8 days to post rather than two. Still no reply. Left negative feedback about the communication and delays and got neg'd back saying I was impatient!
    andhe
  • mr_bennmr_benn United KingdomMember Posts: 874
    Not Lego... but Chinese eBay sellers have become notorious for selling lots of stuff fine... fine... fine... then one day going rogue and taking a whole bunch of orders with them.  I had ordered a pricey Transformer from one who did exactly that, but luckily had paid with PayPal and got all my money back, very much a good thing.  It's a problem to the extent that there are a variety of places you can go that keep black and white-lists of Chinese sellers of transformers now!

    @JudgeChuck - the disappearing from ebay, removing all feedback etc is absolutely indicative of a scammer - best thing to do is to go through eBay, but if you paid via Paypal even more effective is to actually call them up, they were incredibly helpful.
  • CaptainRogersCaptainRogers Greensboro, NCMember Posts: 818
    edited November 2019
    Another one not Lego related, but an order from Walmart never showed up. I ordered some V8 energy juice for delivery since they had stopped carrying it in stores. I Got a notification from FedEx and Walmart that the package was delivered, but my doorstep was empty. I checked the FedEx email again and it looks like instead of delivering to my address, they delivered it to the Walmart about a half mile away from my apartment. So I went to Walmart. After 20 minutes of customer service, I found out that they had put the package back on the FedEx truck to be redelivered.

    Two weeks later, nothing. I filed a claim with FedEx for a lost package, and about ten days later I get a letter saying they have denied the claim. So I got on a chat box with a FedEx employee to help me. The person understood nothing I was saying, and said I should file a police report if the package went missing. I told them the whole situation but it went over his or her head. Asked for a manager. After waiting at least twenty minutes, I got a manager. Thankfully she could help me. Once I showed her the email confirming the package never made it to my house, I was refunded.

    After many weeks of waiting, over an hour and a half wasted at customer service and chatting with them... I got my 20 bucks back. These situations do happen. Between this and a Lego package going missing (and another dialing to deliver since they "couldn't find my apartment") all this year, I think it's driver error.
    SumoLegoJackad7
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    ^ This is why nobody drinks V8 Energy Juice.
    BumblepantsdavetheoxygenmanandheBaby_YodaeggshenSprinkleOtter
  • CyberdragonCyberdragon Maryland, U.S.AMember Posts: 516
    SumoLego said:
    ^ This is why nobody drinks V8 Energy Juice.
    Except probably that truck driver. XD

    Could've had a V8!
    andheKungFuKennySumoLegoSprinkleOtter
  • CyberdragonCyberdragon Maryland, U.S.AMember Posts: 516
    Nothing beats the "in-person item snipe" though. This is where you negotiate a price for an item at a live sale situation such as a flea market, yard/garage sale, exc and before you get a chance to pay for the item some dingus zooms up behind you, whips out their wallet, and out pays you and the seller doesn't even hesitate. It's as if they don't understand it's not an auction where you can see the price go up with demand automatically and they hurt themselves too by not seeing what you'd have actually paid given competition (even if the you agreed to pay at or a little less than asking price not totally cheaping them out). Needless to say the only thing to do is put away your wallet and walk away without looking back as trying to buy it off them would only make you look like a snob yourself. Though I have been more successful at auctions with box lots where you sort of mosey on around someones stuff and they might come up and offer to sell you a part of the lot they didn't want that you wanted but were't willing to buy the rest of it for the one or more items (or you'll just get shooed like and animal in someones garbage).
  • FireheartFireheart Suffolk, UKMember Posts: 613
    I found a buyer on eBay Germany that had some nice LEGO retail displays for sale, contacted them, and then made a deal outside of eBay.. naughty I know, but thought it was a good deal.
    The retail displays came, 1 was broken.. the seller said tough it was done in delivery, and I didn’t have any comeback as it was a private sale...

    Best part is eBay Germany then stopped my account for dealing outside of eBay ! 

    Lesson learnt on that one.. 
    FizyxKungFuKennyBaby_YodaCyberdragon
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,804
    Brainslugged said:
    hoodaddy said:
    I met a forum member at their house once for a trade as I was in town for something else. Nothing really went wrong but they had a really ugly rug in the entryway...
    Next time just firmly, but politely, ask her to put some clothes on.
    I’m sure he was firm when he asked.
    KungFuKennySumoLegoSprinkleOtterPitfall69
  • The_RancorThe_Rancor Dorset, UKMember Posts: 1,396
    Every time I go to a Lego event or toy fair with Lego resellers, at least one of the sellers usually acts like their licensed sets are worth 1.5x or more what they actually are. These environments are inherently open to a bit of negotiation on pricing but more than once the seller has often stopped going down saying “you’ve been watching too much American Pickers”. I’ve never watched American Pickers but I gather it’s basically Salvage Hunters in the USA so makes sense. The most greedy sellers i’ve seen leave one or two events or end the day with hardly any less stock than they started with - but i’m guessing they don’t care and they’ll just sell online?
    KungFuKennyFizyxSumoLegoFowlerBricks
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    High prices and lack of negotiation are hallmarks that the seller isn't trying to make a living moving a volume of items.  Oftentimes, hobbyists make the most miserable and/or obstinate sellers, as they have an emotional value and an unrelated inflated value (or condition) of their 'stuff'.

    I was tangentially involved in model railroading, and some folks just thought their beat-up garbage was pure gold.  I actually thank eBay for making 'hobby' stuff more ubiquitous.
    FizyxAstrobrickscatwranglerpxchrisdavetheoxygenman
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 3,717
    Or they just decide they’ll sell a set if they can get some arbitrary high price or profit off it, but otherwise they’d rather just keep it.

    I live in a neighborhood where the house prices keep rising, and I see people do this with their house 🙄. They go to the bother of putting it on the market at some inflated price, then take it off again several months later if they didn’t get any action.
    FizyxSumoLego
  • colaycolay OxfordshireMember Posts: 530
    SumoLego said:
    High prices and lack of negotiation are hallmarks that the seller isn't trying to make a living moving a volume of items.  Oftentimes, hobbyists make the most miserable and/or obstinate sellers, as they have an emotional value and an unrelated inflated value (or condition) of their 'stuff'.
    I don't do many toy fairs etc, but I have seen exactly this. You can tell the shops/stores/pros, from the chancers. But even some stores want to charge the earth for 'crap', but, as the saying goes, it's only ever worth what someone is willing to pay. I'll help out the small high street store if I can, but sometimes their prices become too prohibitive, that I wont even ask and put in a reasonable offer,as I think they are taking the p155
    Astrobricks said:
    Or they just decide they’ll sell a set if they can get some arbitrary high price or profit off it, but otherwise they’d rather just keep it.


    This I have been involved in. I own a lot of things/stuff/crap/junk/toys/lego/bottles, that I believe have a certain value that I have placed on eBay to see if they would sell. If they do, great, but if they don't Im not too bothered. There will come a day though I suppose, where everything must go and I do wonder, if I'm ever going to ever build all the lego sets I have bought because I like, and have them on display, because more recently, I have been thinking, I'm never ever gonna have the space to disaply all this, even if I did convert a room, and then, that just isnt practical.

    Anyway back to OP. I stopped using eBay for 2 years after my 15 years of 100% buying and selloing Feedback, and a 'kid' who said he didnt receive my PS4 game (despite him admitting in the Messages) that 'stuff goes missing all the time when I buy off of eBay', they took his side (less FB, less time on eBay and IMO not  'proof' but almost admittance that he has never received a number of eBay items) it really hacked me off. I now rarely sell on eBay.

    Once at a car boot sale here in the UK, a guy was looking to buy a load of clothes for his son, the more he picked up, the more he was trying to get the price down. He argues, that the more he bought the less it gets as thats how it works. I didnt want to cause a scene and have an argument, as you never know these days, but I did want the stuff gone and it was better than taking it home. I wish Id have stood my ground and told him to jog on, but, lesson learnt for sure.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,302
    The_Rancor said:
    Every time I go to a Lego event or toy fair with Lego resellers, at least one of the sellers usually acts like their licensed sets are worth 1.5x or more what they actually are.
    I'm shocked. I normally find there is at most one that doesn't act like their licensed sets are worth 1.5x what they are worth. But then, sometimes charges for tables at events like that can be very high so they have to screw money out of the punters somehow.

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,302
    Astrobricks said:
    Or they just decide they’ll sell a set if they can get some arbitrary high price or profit off it, but otherwise they’d rather just keep it.

    For a hobby seller this can make sense. If they are a professional and need cash flow to keep reinvesting, then so long as the profit is good enough they can be willing to let some of their stock go in order to get cashflow. Whereas if a hobby seller has one of a set (let's say they paid £100), and they have seen the same set sell for say £200, then why accept £180? They might as well keep it and wait for the right buyer. Professionals and hobby sellers often have different strategies.
    catwranglerLittleLoriFizyxdrdavewatfordBaby_YodaSumoLegoryjayBuriedinBricks
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    (Hobby Sellers have bad strategy...)
  • ryjayryjay Member Posts: 1,001
    ....and I'm sure there are plenty of buyers who think when they pay $20 for a set that the seller just made 20 bucks
    SumoLegoBuriedinBricks
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    Could be true, but unlikely.  Nonetheless, in this context it doesn't matter what the buyer thinks.  The buyer ultimately dictates the terms of the transaction.
    ryjay
  • ryjayryjay Member Posts: 1,001
    SumoLego said:
    Could be true, but unlikely.  Nonetheless, in this context it doesn't matter what the buyer thinks.  The buyer ultimately dictates the terms of the transaction.
    Now if we could just get Apple to belief that
    SumoLegodatsunrobbiecatwrangler
  • alaskaguyalaskaguy Member Posts: 335
    The_Rancor said:
    These environments are inherently open to a bit of negotiation on pricing but more than once the seller has often stopped going down saying “you’ve been watching too much American Pickers”. 
    I've never seen anyone go down at a Lego convention. 
  • colaycolay OxfordshireMember Posts: 530
    Apple products, apple sheep, apple arrogance. Apple crap.
    Years behind android for functions. My neighbour with iPhone whatever 3 years ago 'Look I can unlock with my face' Me 'Yeah, i could do that 3 years ago, along with everything else 'Apple' have just told you is new'

    Working with them a number of years ago, we had Apple in to talk about next gen thinfs (I'm going back a few years) and we asked (we work in education) 'would the iPad/iPod have 'N' wirless, everyone else is and itd be good to have our schools all being able to do it'
    'Well, we at Apple will do things if we want to, just becuase others are doing it, doesn't mean we will!

    WHAT? So you dont want to be able to have educators have better connectivity on your devices?
    Also, Apple were the company to say NO to standard charging cables, helping eliminate charger production and cable production waste, as they want to con you all in buying their over priced copyright crap, and help impact the environment

    Rant over!

    Lesson. Ditch Apple, your life and the world will be better.
    gmonkey76Pitfall69CyberdragonBrainslugged
  • MCNwakeboardMCNwakeboard VirginiaMember Posts: 308
    I once sent a box of Lego to Australia but accidentally selected Azerbaijan for the postage label/customs form from the country drop down option. It took about a 10 weeks to arrive in Australia and was luckily for a very patient friend. 
    SumoLegoFizyxBaby_YodaandhePitfall69
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    None of my packages ever make it to Kerplakistan.  
    gmonkey76Pitfall69davetheoxygenman
  • datsunrobbiedatsunrobbie West Haven , CTMember Posts: 1,608
    I stayed away from all things Apple until earlier this year when Comcast was selling 128GB iPads for $120, and for that price I think it is a fairly good tablet. Comparing specs, Apple always seems to be a few years behind the competition. 
    Baby_Yoda
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,448
    It is tougher to keep ahead when you limit the number of developers and engineers that have the ability to innovate with your products.

    But whatever, that's not the point of this discussion.

    I'm not sure what the point of offering an item that you really don't want to sell.  Unless you're using eBay as an inventory management tool.  (And if that's the case, why are you using eBay?)
    Baby_Yoda
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda The world's backsideMember Posts: 1,295
    ^ Well, I guess the point is that you do want to sell it, but only for a certain price; otherwise, you'd just rather keep it. It's the same as selling anything, except the chance of you keeping the item is much greater when the price you want is unusually high.
    ryjay said:
    SumoLego said:
    Could be true, but unlikely.  Nonetheless, in this context it doesn't matter what the buyer thinks.  The buyer ultimately dictates the terms of the transaction.
    Now if we could just get Apple to belief that
    They do. It just so happens that there are plenty of buyers who don't know/care about paying a reasonable price.
  • colaycolay OxfordshireMember Posts: 530
    SumoLego said:
    But whatever, that's not the point of this discussion.

    I'm not sure what the point of offering an item that you really don't want to sell.  Unless you're using eBay as an inventory management tool.  (And if that's the case, why are you using eBay?)
    No different to people who 'flip' or try to flip exclusive models of car. 911s especially in recent years. Have the money to buy it/be on a list, then sell it for 3 to 4 times what you paid for it. However, it doesnt always work. eBayers (casual Lego ones and some ) want to see if they can get more for something than they paid, due to 'demand/hype'

    I have posted about it in another thread though before, that a lot of 'expensive' listings, especially if someone has, lets say, 4 Mint Carded original Darth Vader SW Toys, at £3k each, normally, A they don't have 4, B it's a scam for selling 'something else' (insert your illegal item of choice) 'under the radar'

    Back to OP. My neighbor was talking to me about listing some of my mums Xmas items, as she can't put up all her decorations anymore, it takes too long and effort. He said, if I do list them, I can't ask him to bid on them, as our other neighbour always asks him to 'up bid' and has ended up 'winning' roof racks, bikes and all sorts of stuff that the other neighbour 'just wanted a little bit more for' lol
    LittleLoriandhe
  • msandersmsanders Member Posts: 992
    I sold on ebay some Lego and sent the package to the buyer. After a bit of time they made a claim on eBay that it wasn't delivered. Luckily for me I had tracking and proof of delivery, however, it was delivered to a big apartment block and the buyer claimed it wasn't their signature. I did my own investigation and found out the signature was from the mail room of that apartment block. They have a record of every parcel that comes in and signed for. I called them and they said yes, it's their signature on the delivery note and importantly the occupant of the apartment (the buyer) had already come to pick it up! Absolute cheek! 

    I think (not sure if the rules have changed) but ebay/PayPal didn't care about the lies but since I had proof of delivery I was covered as the seller. They closed the case in my favour. I banned the person from buying and sent a message to tell them I found out their lies! 
    FizyxAstrobricksFireheartBrickfan50MaffyDBaby_YodaLittleLoriMr_Cross
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    ^ Theresa, is that you?
    (And if so...stop telling porkies!)
    msandersRedbullgivesuwindKungFuKenny
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    MCNwakeboard said:
    I once sent a box of Lego to Australia but accidentally selected Azerbaijan for the postage label/customs form from the country drop down option. It took about a 10 weeks to arrive in Australia and was luckily for a very patient friend. 
    SumoLego said:
    None of my packages ever make it to Kerplakistan.  
    I once sent a package of protein bars to Hungrystan....
    Bumblepantsgmonkey76GothamConstructionCoKungFuKenny
  • ryjayryjay Member Posts: 1,001
    SumoLego said:
    ryjay said:
    Now if we could just get Apple to belief that
    You'd have to start with initially not buying one.  Thus, I have purchased the sum total of ZERO Apple computers, laptops or phones.  Although I admire Apple as an entity, their marketing/production methods are closer to the antithesis of what I look for when spending my consumer dollar.  I also have a huge problem with people pretending Apple is some sort of people-sensitive future-looking high-minded company when their production is based in China.

    I did get an iPad Shuffle in the early '00's.  But that's due my Diamond Rio MP3 player repeatedly crapping out.
    100% agree.   There are a couple shows I'd like to see on their Apple TV+, but I wont even subscribe to that.   
    Pitfall69
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    I have an ongoing negotiation now that's frustrating me. This guy keeps changing the price on me and I have to go back through my texts; screen shot the conversation; then text him the screenshot. He's one of those people you see on TV. You both agree on a price and just as you are shaking on it, they bark out a lower price. I can't stand people like that. Unfortunately, I've dealt with many of these types of people too often. 
    Fizyx
  • FireheartFireheart Suffolk, UKMember Posts: 613
    ^ Just say take it or leave it.. and walk away. They will soon be back paying what you agreed.
    KungFuKenny560HeliportPitfall69
  • colaycolay OxfordshireMember Posts: 530
    Pitfall69 said:
    I have an ongoing negotiation now that's frustrating me. This guy keeps changing the price on me and I have to go back through my texts; screen shot the conversation; then text him the screenshot. He's one of those people you see on TV. You both agree on a price and just as you are shaking on it, they bark out a lower price. I can't stand people like that. Unfortunately, I've dealt with many of these types of people too often. 
    I've been dealing with a guy Ive been selling a few spare football tickets too. We agree a price, then he says, Oh Ive been offered at Face value (mine included fees, posting to him Spec Del and somehting for my hasslees as he texts constantly) so I said take them from the other person. Then he's like, can you hold them. I said I will till Tuesday. He then wanted them held till 12 today
    Needless to say, its the last time Im dealong with him
    Pitfall69
  • Th1nDieselTh1nDiesel UKMember Posts: 585
    ^ People asking to hold things are the scourge of Facebook Marketplace. I've been let down so often, that now I'll agree to hold something with the caveat that if someone offers me the same price or higher I'll let it go.

    As a buyer, I generally don't offer to buy anything unless I can collect the same day, or next day at the latest.
    Pitfall69SumoLegoMr_Crossgmonkey76
  • piratemania7piratemania7 New EnglandMember Posts: 2,135
    To play devils advocate, has anyone experienced any difficult or irrational sellers?  They do exist - although probably not as plentiful as the buyer side of things.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,423
    colay said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    I have an ongoing negotiation now that's frustrating me. This guy keeps changing the price on me and I have to go back through my texts; screen shot the conversation; then text him the screenshot. He's one of those people you see on TV. You both agree on a price and just as you are shaking on it, they bark out a lower price. I can't stand people like that. Unfortunately, I've dealt with many of these types of people too often. 
    I've been dealing with a guy Ive been selling a few spare football tickets too. We agree a price, then he says, Oh Ive been offered at Face value (mine included fees, posting to him Spec Del and somehting for my hasslees as he texts constantly) so I said take them from the other person. Then he's like, can you hold them. I said I will till Tuesday. He then wanted them held till 12 today
    Needless to say, its the last time Im dealong with him
    I've said: "Oh good, if you found a cheaper price, go acquire the item from them." many times. Most of the time they come back with some nonsense.

    Oh, I love it when you agree on a price and then when they come to pick it up, they say "I only have $X.XX on me; can we just do that? I always say: "You you have PayPal,  Cash App, Venmo?" If they say no, I come back with "It's a shame that you drove all the way out here wasting money on gas." Most of the time, they miraculously come up with the money. 
    datsunrobbieFizyxWookie2560HeliportMCNwakeboard
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