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LEGO Trolls

24

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  • cody6268cody6268 Member Posts: 298
    My problem is I feel LEGO is making way too many licensed themes and too many have been utter failures, with millions spent on new tooling useless for anything but those sets.  An ideal licensed theme, in my opinion, has stuff for people that are both familiar and unfamiliar with the IP that both will like.

     But then again, the Lone Ranger remake (was familiar with the show, but only liked the sets for the US Cavalry soldiers) was that for me, and like the film, it was a flop. I remember our Kmart (uh, back when we still had one) struggling to get rid of the sets. 
  • AyliffeAyliffe Member Posts: 323
    edited May 2019
    Honestly if there's anything that bewilders me about this whole Trolls reveal, it's how amazingly early they've announced their existence - at the soonest we're 7 months away from 2020, and if the sets turn out to be a spring release like the main homepage article speculates then we're nearly 10 months away from the sets launching! Heck, there hasn't even been a trailer for this film yet - is there a precedent for this kinda thing, or am I the only one that considers the timing of this really darn odd?

    As for my personal thoughts on the theme, I can't say I'm personally interested in it myself but there's certainly some potential for neat recoloured and new parts so it'll be interesting to see how the final sets look in terms of those. That aside, I'll probably be more occupied by other themes in 2020 so... eh, whatever I guess. It's a thing.
    Shibcatwrangler
  • AanchirAanchir Member Posts: 3,044
    SMC said:
    Aanchir said:
    Honestly, it's unlikely that anyone in the world has what it takes to reliably predict any new product's chances of success
    Hang on never mind, there's no point.
    If the only point you see in forums is to make predictions on what will succeed or what will fail before there's any supporting evidence one way or the other, then sure, you're wasting your time being on forums. But that's a ridiculous reason to be on sites like this to begin with. Sites like Brickset are aimed at LEGO fans, not at aspiring prophets and soothsayers.

    Also you left out the "before it launches" bit of that sentence, arguably the most important part. Even the people CREATING new LEGO themes can't guarantee whether they will or won't be a hit before they even hit the shelves, and they have much more insight into the details of those themes (how much they cost to make, how well they've tested with kids compared to other themes, how they're going to be advertised, who they expect them to appeal to, etc) than we typically do.
    LyichirBaby_Yodastluxdmcc0datsunrobbiecatwranglerJenni
  • SumoLegoSumoLego Member Posts: 15,241
    cody6268 said:
    My problem is I feel LEGO is making way too many licensed themes and too many have been utter failures, with millions spent on new tooling useless for anything but those sets.
    I don't think that's accurate at all.  If licensing were unpopular, then they wouldn't exist.  And LEGO wouldn't have a billion dollars in profit.

    Nonetheless, I get the sense we're going to get Exo-Force like tall rubbery hair.  I can't imagine we'll get actual stringy hair.
    Baby_Yodagmonkey76stluxMr_Crosscatwrangler
  • pharmjodpharmjod Member Posts: 2,916
    I am ambivalent about trolls. It will likely just save me money since I doubt I'll be interested in the sets, but I don't mind LEGO doing the theme. 
    AyliffeSumoLegomadforLEGO
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda Member Posts: 1,295
    I must say, this discussion has become very philosophical very quickly. "What is the purpose of this forum? Why are we even here? Can we even be sure of anything?"
    560Heliportbrickventurescatwranglerkhmellymel
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 Member Posts: 11,454
    ^I ask these questions every day and it isn't about the forum ;)
    gmonkey76Baby_Yodadmcc0SumoLego
  • pharmjodpharmjod Member Posts: 2,916
    Pitfall69 said:
    ^I ask these questions every day and it isn't about the forum ;)
    I'm just imagining you asking them in jar jar's voice...
    Aanchirgmonkey76Baby_Yodadmcc0560HeliportSumoLegocatwrangler
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,478
    SumoLego said:


    Nonetheless, I get the sense we're going to get Exo-Force like tall rubbery hair.  I can't imagine we'll get actual stringy hair.
    I don’t know why but I kind of imagine the hair will be a requirement of the licence agreement - probably because the only merch I can remember seeing from the first film that had plastic hair was the result of function (lights, money jars or just characters printed onto things) and the Kreo sets included interchangeable “stringy” hair pieces.
    catwrangler
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    cody6268 said:
    My problem is I feel LEGO is making way too many licensed themes and too many have been utter failures, with millions spent on new tooling useless for anything but those sets.  An ideal licensed theme, in my opinion, has stuff for people that are both familiar and unfamiliar with the IP that both will like.

    Which ones were utter failures? And why should a licensed set have to appeal to people that are unfamiliar with the license? Better to appeal to fans of the license than dilute the branding. Of course, they could have done really bad Angry Birds characters with brick built birds / pigs so the parts were useful to LEGO fans that were not fans of the license. But Angry Birds fans would probably not have bought them, and LEGO fans would have bought them for parts on clearance. Although LEGO fans have 100s of other sets to choose from. If they are going to do a license, they should do it right, for the fans of that license.

    And now apply that reasoning to in-house sets. If licenses are utter failures, then based on the same criteria (sets sitting on shelves) then so are in-house sets. City is a top seller for LEGO, yet I see City sets clearanced, and often sit on shelves during clearance.
    ShibstluxBumblepantsSumoLegogmonkey76
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,478
    ^that last point is one I often bring up when people talk about shelf warmer sets.

    Yes it could be that the theme didn't sell well but it could also be that a particular retailer (or retail group) over stocked a particular theme. This is what I think happened with Unikitty - Tesco exclusivity made them over confident so they over stocked, when they tried to clearance them it took too long and other retailers were already selling them making them even less desirable.

    Did LEGO over produce the sets or did the retailers over order? 
    dmcc0AanchirSumoLegoLyichirgmonkey76pharmjod
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    Yes, and worse still with the apparent overprice as well. Tesco may well have sold them all if the price was right, but they seemed to over order for sale at the RRP. 

    It is also a strange way to handle exclusivity. If similar ranges are going to be time exclusive, I probably wouldn't buy until other stores get them and compete.
  • 560Heliport560Heliport Member Posts: 4,277
    ^ Or maybe a theme actually sold very well, and only a few had to be clearanced. Those are the ones we see- because they're still on the shelf. We can't see the ones that sold at full price.
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    ^ OR if it looks like a duck... 
  • TheOriginalSimonBTheOriginalSimonB Member Posts: 1,795
    And of course by the time a set is sitting on a shelf, LEGO have already made their money from it.  If they sell thousands to the wholesalers/retailers then the only reason for worry is if those people don't buy similar quantities of future product.  

    If they don't already, canny retailers should base their income predictions on having to sell EVERYTHING they stock at a reduced price, so everything that sells at full RRP is just extra profit.
    klinton
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda Member Posts: 1,295
    SMC said:
    ^ OR if it looks like a duck... 
    What if it looks like a duck but is actually Deadpool?
    Bumblepantsplaywelldmcc0gmonkey76BrickByBrick
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Member Posts: 7,730
    Baby_Yoda said:
    SMC said:
    ^ OR if it looks like a duck... 
    What if it looks like a duck but is actually Deadpool?
    What if it weighs the same as a duck and therefore is a witch?
    datsunrobbiepxchrisgmonkey76Baby_YodapharmjodMr_CrossJenniAstrobricks
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    560Heliport said:
    ^ Or maybe a theme actually sold very well, and only a few had to be clearanced. Those are the ones we see- because they're still on the shelf. We can't see the ones that sold at full price.
    This is where other tools can help a bit - such as comments on deals type websites once something is reduced.

    Also, in the past (not in tesco though) I have stacked sets in a certain way. In one stock, I stacked the remaining brickheadz Rey on top of Leia on top of Rey on top of Leia and left them on the shelf. The same stack being there a month later indicates that they didn't sell. Of course, they may have sold 100s of them and those ones weren't touched, but I doubt it.

    Baby_Yoda
  • SumoLegoSumoLego Member Posts: 15,241
    edited May 2019
    pharmjod said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    ^I ask these questions every day and it isn't about the forum ;)
    I'm just imagining you asking them in jar jar's voice...
    Whysa whysa weesa weesa here, okey-daye?  
    Pitfall69gmonkey76pharmjoddavetheoxygenman
  • pxchrispxchris Member Posts: 2,438
    edited October 2019
    Video out from LEGO on social media...

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B4CzNemgNQ-/

    https://www.facebook.com/LEGO/videos/2430516403888492/
    klintonvwong19FizyxBumblepantsAanchir
  • vwong19vwong19 Member Posts: 1,191
    I think they look better than Angry Birds and would buy them when on clearance. 
    FizyxBumblepantsSumoLegojpeg07
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    edited October 2019
    Yeah, but do you buy at 50% or wait for 75% ... such a dilemma! :-)

    Hopefully some kids like them and parents buy them. It's good that LEGO tries new things.

    FizyxMr_Cross560Heliportgmonkey76jpeg07
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    There also appears to be a centaur minifigure body in there. Although even recoloured it probably wouldn't fit with fantasy settings.
    Mr_Cross
  • catwranglercatwrangler Member Posts: 1,895
    Not bad at all! Very colourful and fun, and I like the microfigures as well. 
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    CCC said:
    There also appears to be a centaur minifigure body in there. Although even recoloured it probably wouldn't fit with fantasy settings.
    And this is where Lego drive me crazy, I have wanted a centaur for so long and once they made the mold they could reuse it. Trolls have so many new molds that will never be used again, what a waste. I think Lego loss something with all the single use molds like the cmf balloon when there was nothing wrong with the new part from the angry birds sets.
    SumoLegogmonkey76
  • SumoLegoSumoLego Member Posts: 15,241
    I'm sure the folks over at Dreamworks more than subsidize the cost for the unusual molds their product demands.

    I'm sure it's justified in having LEGO supporting the movie and it's associated marketing/merchandise.
    playwellpharmjod
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    SumoLego said:
    I'm sure the folks over at Dreamworks more than subsidize the cost for the unusual molds their product demands.

    I'm sure it's justified in having LEGO supporting the movie and it's associated marketing/merchandise.
    I am sure they are not paying Lego but you make a good point. I would like to know how much Lego paid for this and the angry birds license. Start the bidding at nothing?
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego Member Posts: 15,241
    edited October 2019
    I have no doubt that Sony and Dreamworks paid some enhanced royalty to license the IP to LEGO.

    This isn't SW or Disney, where the IP is far more valuable to LEGO.
    pharmjod
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    It looks like the heads have 4 studs on the top so you can change the hair hats up.

    Are the minions sets coming out around the same time or later?
    Lyichir
  • TheOriginalSimonBTheOriginalSimonB Member Posts: 1,795
    Definitely some funky torsos and other bits I can see uses for.
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    If minions are also new molds, maybe feet, body and head all with 4 studs on top you might be able to put the trolls hair/hat on them.
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,478
    edited October 2019
    I hate to be negative but I'm disappointed with the figures. At best they look OK, but I really thing that Kreo did the figures better. To my mind these don't have fallen into an awkward middle ground of not looking enough like LEGO figs to obviously be LEGO while also loosing too much of the typical Troll features to not look like official Trolls merch. They might grow on me, but I doubt it. 

    I'm just hoping for a lot of weird and wonderful recolours of existing parts in the sets, the first film was full of bright colours, pastel colours and glitter, if this film is similar there could at least be unusual recolours of parts. 
  • colaycolay Member Posts: 547
    Well, as an adult, I loved the first Trolls film. I will have to get these, I feel, just so I can recreate the 'and the other way leads to certain death death death death' scene
    Jenniblakusdk
  • FauchFauch Member Posts: 2,712
    Are they CMFs?
  • LyichirLyichir Member Posts: 1,027
    Fauch said:
    Are they CMFs?
    The fact that the video has them on CMF stands might suggest that, but then that might just have been a convenience for the sake of having them "bounce" to the music without falling over. Hard to tell at this point.
    stluxFizyx
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    I'm not sure someone from Lego saying it "did very well" is any more meaningful than us seeing the sets at 70% off or then not making any sets for the second film.
    BrainsluggedAyliffeCCCpharmjodRecce
  • klintonklinton Member Posts: 1,256
    SMC said:
    I'm not sure someone from Lego saying it "did very well" is any more meaningful than us seeing the sets at 70% off or then not making any sets for the second film.
    Whatever the sets may or may not have have ended up clearancing out at, as Long as Lego met or exceeded their wholesale thresholds for the line, then it was a success. As long as retailers placed those initial orders, Lego came out on top. It didn't need to be a runaway success to do "very well" for Lego.
    AanchirLyichir
  • CapnRex101CapnRex101 Administrator Posts: 2,364
    edited October 2019
    I think product sales are difficult to assess on an anecdotal basis. I certainly saw the Angry Birds range discounted significantly and they struggled at LEGO stores across the UK, apparently.

    However, I have also been informed that Dimensions and DC Super Hero Girls are the only themes which have fallen short of LEGO's expectations in recent years. Even so, I got the impression that they were ended because LEGO felt there was greater potential in focusing attention elsewhere, rather than because they were costing the company money.

    The only piece of sales-related information which I have ever been given and can publicly attribute comes from Jens Kronvold Frederiksen, the design director for LEGO Star Wars. I asked him about Star Wars sets which have performed poorly and he stated that #7119 Twin-Pod Cloud Car had struggled.
    560HeliportstluxFizyxBaby_YodaAyliffeLyichirMynattcatwrangler
  • AanchirAanchir Member Posts: 3,044
    CapnRex101 said:
    I think product sales are difficult to assess on an anecdotal basis. I certainly saw the Angry Birds range discounted significantly and they struggled at LEGO stores across the UK, apparently.

    However, I have also been informed that Dimensions and DC Super Hero Girls are the only themes which have fallen short of LEGO's expectations in recent years. Even so, I got the impression that they were ended because LEGO felt there was greater potential in focusing attention elsewhere, rather than because they were costing the company money.

    The only piece of sales-related information which I have ever been given and can publicly attribute comes from Jens Kronvold Frederiksen, the design director for LEGO Star Wars. I asked him about Star Wars sets which have performed poorly and he stated that #7119 Twin-Pod Cloud Car had struggled.
    And as I mentioned, anecdotal info about which sets/themes sell well or poorly is hard to read into without any sort of confirmation bias influencing how it's interpreted.
    I mean, I've seen numerous comments over the years predicting that LEGO Ninjago and LEGO Friends were on their last legs because they saw a lot of sets from past waves lingering on shelves.
    Unsurprisingly, a lot of those forecasts were made by people who'd hated those themes from the get-go. But both those themes have managed to last many years since some of those comments were made, and are even considered evergreen these days if I'm not mistaken.
    What's more, any time a Castle or Pirates line (licensed or non-licensed) is short-lived or ends up needing price cuts to clear the shelves, it hardly ever results in posts about how LEGO shouldn't have bothered with those themes. At worst, people talk about ways they think LEGO mishandled the designs or marketing, or treat it like LEGO's mistake was in not making ENOUGH sets in these themes to both attract and maintain buyers' attention.

    But AFOLs have been far less charitable towards licensed themes like The Angry Birds Movie, Trolls: World Tour, and Minions 2. In all of these cases, the wailing and moaning about what a pointless mistake these themes were began with the very first teaser, even before anything was known about the actual set designs. Just look at all the doom-and-gloom predictions people made in response to the first article about LEGO Angry Birds on Brickset, with no set details other than a release date.
    And it's telling that many of the loudest naysayers have not deviated from this narrative no matter what new info or developments have turned up regarding these themes. Instead, pretty much everything that happens with these themes going forward is upheld as proof that they were right to assume the worst from the very beginning. Suffice to say, that smacks of confirmation bias.
    FizyxstluxLyichircatwrangler
  • AanchirAanchir Member Posts: 3,044
    And besides — what incentive would Samuel Johnson have to lie about this? He's a member of the design department, not marketing or community relations, so he isn't paid to defend the company on social media. Particularly by publicly replying to a post that wasn't directed at him, with a comment defending a long-discontinued theme, in the comments of an article that isn't even about that theme.
    At a certain point, claims that any comment from any LEGO employee or publication can be dismissed as propaganda become indistinguishable from kooky conspiracy theories, and I'd say that scenarios like this, much like claims that *insert designer name here* stole a LEGO Ideas project and lied about it to protect their employer, are well past that point.
    FizyxstluxLyichirBaby_Yodajpeg07catwrangler
  • FodderFodder Member Posts: 360
    My boys (4 & 6 1/2) have seen the teaser and are excited for LEGO Trolls - I dare say that we will end up with a set or two in this house, even though this AFOL has no personal interest in the theme..
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Member Posts: 10,837
    Aanchir said:
    And besides — what incentive would Samuel Johnson have to lie about this? He's a member of the design department, not marketing or community relations, so he isn't paid to defend the company on social media. Particularly by publicly replying to a post that wasn't directed at him, with a comment defending a long-discontinued theme, in the comments of an article that isn't even about that theme.
    At a certain point, claims that any comment from any LEGO employee or publication can be dismissed as propaganda become indistinguishable from kooky conspiracy theories, and I'd say that scenarios like this, much like claims that *insert designer name here* stole a LEGO Ideas project and lied about it to protect their employer, are well past that point.
    Ok, then how could a member of the design dept then know it did 'well' if they are not in the marketing or social relations depts? Or is he also part of the accounting dept as well?

    My point is that employees, whether asked directly or not, are not paid by their employer to publicly bad mouth their product or way their employer does something, lest they want to be on the outside looking in. However, I have seen tons of employees defend something their company did to gain favor within said company (i.e. being a 'team player'). Or they just take it personally that someone calls out something about 'their' company (even if said statement could be true)-which I can see someone from the design dept take exception to the comment that the Angry Bird line was 'bad'.
    I always take anything an employee, or book/story about their company, says with a HUUUGE grain of salt. They have the number of reasons equal to their paycheck as to why they would say or do things that portray the company, or even their 'old product', in a good light.
    Conversely, I think that anyone who appears to blindly treat every comment from a company, book/story, or an employee as 100% truthful is setting themselves up for disappointment as well. There is a middle ground sure, but in addition to the hardcore skeptics, I have also seen posters on this forum talk about LEGO as if it is infallible.
    I think @SumoLego put it best. That a product may do 'well' in one regard, but not 'well' in another.
    gmonkey76SumoLegoBrainsluggedBaby_YodaAyliffepharmjodReccesonatine01
  • SumoLegoSumoLego Member Posts: 15,241
    edited October 2019
    Aanchir said:
    ...At a certain point, claims that any comment from any LEGO employee or publication can be dismissed as propaganda become indistinguishable from kooky conspiracy theories...
    My point is that some of the folks at LEGO may not know what performed well.  And certainly, a bunch of AFOLs that don't like a theme have zero insight into how LEGO assesses success.

    If that were remotely true, there'd be no Friends or Disney sets.  They seem to sell and linger from year to year.

    I'm not accusing anyone of lying, but since no one can verify sales, margins or profitability for any set, theme or promotion - we'd be none the wiser anyway!

    Bionicle forever! Or until it is abruptly cancelled to make room for other product.

    madforLEGO said:
    I think @SumoLego put it best.
    Nah, he's an only slightly informed knucklehead.  But I hear he's looking to trade for a Christmas Snowglobe.
    FizyxmadforLEGOKungFuKennyBumblepantsBaby_Yodagmonkey76Recce
  • stluxstlux Member Posts: 2,450
    edited October 2019
    Lego designers actually DO know how well their sets sell - they get regular sales updates on the sets they have created. I don't immediately find back the interview, but I think it's every 2 weeks?
    Pretty sure Samuel Johnson, as a Design Manager, knows what's selling in his portfolio.

    Internally TLG is not shy about communicating which sets are successful: the building where the designers work, has the top 10 selling sets on permanent display at the entrance. I don't recall anymore which sets where on display when I was there last year, but this year @Roebuck spotted these 10 as shared elsewhere on the forum:
    #41340 Police Station 60141
    #41340 Friendship House
    #17101 BOOST Creative Toolbox
    #10698 LEGO® Large Creative Brick Box
    #75192 Millennium Falcon
    #42083 Bugatti Chiron
    #75954 Hogwarts Great Hall
    #75953 Hogwarts Whomping Willow
    #71022 Minifigures - Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts Series 1
    #71043 Hogwarts Castle 

    I have no insight in when TLG considers a theme/set successful, but it might be related to meeting/exceeding their 30% profit margin goal.


    AanchirKungFuKennySumoLegoBaby_Yoda
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,556
    As we don't know sales figures and we don't know what the sales targets were, it doesn't really matter whether LEGO says they did well or not. What does matter though is how well we saw them do. Angry Birds sold badly, at least locally to me, in the sense that they were on at least 50% clearance for a long time. If I had wanted them as parts packs, I could have picked them up cheaply. LEGO, either as a company or as a single employee, may claim they "did very well"* but that has no bearing on what the public saw.

    * Note that he doesn't say what they did well. There is no financial statement there. Was it reach sales targets, was it that all sets sold eventually, was it that they had good feedback from Columbia / Sony, was it that they play tested well with younger kids, or was it something else?  
    dmcc0BrainsluggedSumoLegopharmjodRecce
  • monkyby87monkyby87 Member Posts: 316
    CCC said:
    As we don't know sales figures and we don't know what the sales targets were, it doesn't really matter whether LEGO says they did well or not. What does matter though is how well we saw them do. Angry Birds sold badly, at least locally to me, in the sense that they were on at least 50% clearance for a long time. If I had wanted them as parts packs, I could have picked them up cheaply. LEGO, either as a company or as a single employee, may claim they "did very well"* but that has no bearing on what the public saw.

    * Note that he doesn't say what they did well. There is no financial statement there. Was it reach sales targets, was it that all sets sold eventually, was it that they had good feedback from Columbia / Sony, was it that they play tested well with younger kids, or was it something else?  

    I'm confused, why would what WE think and observe matter?  Why does it matter if we think a theme did poorly if they actually did, based upon whatever criteria Lego uses for such a statement.  I just don't understand why it matters what the public saw compared to what actually happened.
    benbacardistluxAanchirBaby_YodaTkatt
  • playwellplaywell Member Posts: 2,333
    stlux said:
    #41340 Police Station 60141
    #41340 Friendship House
    #17101 BOOST Creative Toolbox
    #10698 LEGO® Large Creative Brick Box
    #75192 Millennium Falcon
    #42083 Bugatti Chiron
    #75954 Hogwarts Great Hall
    #75953 Hogwarts Whomping Willow
    #71022 Minifigures - Harry Potter and Fantastic Beasts Series 1
    #71043 Hogwarts Castle
    I wound be shocked if this list was made using blind data, as in these are the 10 sets that sold the most units, had the highest revenue or so on.
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