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Why are these minifigures different?

King_JKing_J United StatesMember Posts: 25
I've been trying to collect all the Marvel minifigures, and am trying to understand something.  There's two Iron Man figures—sh231 and sh036—that I can't seem to spot any difference between.  Are these the same minifigure?

Comments

  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,404
    The two trans blue tubes at the bottom of his feet. 
    thenos
  • klintonklinton CanadaMember Posts: 421
    Perhaps he has a different face print under the mask? Or even just a minor variation in the metalic tones. For the sake of a collection, they clearly both represent the same armor model, so you're probably safe with either one rather than both. Unless it'll haunt you. Then you need both, just to be safe. :p
  • iliketoastiliketoast AustraliaMember Posts: 255
    I had this same question a while ago...
    As best I can tell, Bricklink made a new listing to protect the value of the figs from the Quinjet set that was retired at the time of the release of the juniors set.
    When I was looking, both listings were called ‘Iron Man with circle on chest (xxxx)’ The renaming to Mark 7 was done November last year.
    Given that the inventory is identical, there is no reason for what I would consider a duplicate listing.
  • Th1nDieselTh1nDiesel UKMember Posts: 515
    This is a good article on the difference between the two:

    http://jaysbrickblog.com/2016/02/28/review-lego-10721-juniors-iron-man-vs-loki/

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    I had this same question a while ago...
    As best I can tell, Bricklink made a new listing to protect the value of the figs from the Quinjet set that was retired at the time of the release of the juniors set.

    This is a good article on the difference between the two:

    http://jaysbrickblog.com/2016/02/28/review-lego-10721-juniors-iron-man-vs-loki/

    The assignment is nothing to do with protecting value, it is to do with the parts contained. As @oldtodd33 has mentioned, here it is to do with the tubes on the feet. Remove those from the Quinjet one, and you have the Juniors one. Add them to the Juniors one, and you have the Quinjet one. The other parts are the same, as seen in BL inventories. What the author of that article is discussing is minor print variations, which happen in many figures. Loki is different as he has a different type of fabric cape.

    There is the same situation with Yoda, sw471 (£7.59) and sw707 (£3.35) - prices are six month averages on BL. The difference is a neck bracket, worth about 10-20p.
    thenos
  • iliketoastiliketoast AustraliaMember Posts: 255
    ^ I was so focussed on the armour prints, I completely missed this... I bought my Juniors Iron Man before I really understood Bricklink. What makes it worse, is that I have been collecting the variants of Emmet where some figs only differ by a neck bracket or trans-red plate.... 
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    Yeah, the are similar examples such as Frodo where there is a difference in the colour of the cape, or a face expression on the reverse of the head. And others that come with hair or a hat, such as Gandalf. If displaying them together they can look a bit odd. And don't start on Batman variations!

    King_J
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,404
    I don't know about Batman but there are 44 different minfigures based on this torso pattern alone. https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=973pb0300c01&idColor=11#T=I&C=11

    All it takes is a minor one piece change in the minifigure and you have a whole new one. 
  • King_JKing_J United StatesMember Posts: 25
    Gotcha, thank you all!  I love collecting small variants in print or hair and whatnot (as in the two Vision's and the two Dr. Strange's), but yeah, if the variation is just "comes with tube accessories", I'll pass on that one.

    Funny you mention Batman.  I've been building these 56 minifigure frames this week and just yesterday had the thought "Man, it would be so cool to fill one of these frames with 56 different Batmen".  I own no Batmen, but that didn't stop me from researching prices for all of them on BrickLink and considering embarking on the dark path.
    sid3windr
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    oldtodd33 said:
    I don't know about Batman but there are 44 different minfigures based on this torso pattern alone. https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=973pb0300c01&idColor=11#T=I&C=11

    All it takes is a minor one piece change in the minifigure and you have a whole new one. 
    Yeah, some City style ones get re-used again and again, but the one you pointed out is quite excessive. Although I'm not sure I'd display those all together in a frame.

    This one shows up a lot too ...


  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,404
    CCC said:
    oldtodd33 said:
    I don't know about Batman but there are 44 different minfigures based on this torso pattern alone. https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=973pb0300c01&idColor=11#T=I&C=11

    All it takes is a minor one piece change in the minifigure and you have a whole new one. 
    Yeah, some City style ones get re-used again and again, but the one you pointed out is quite excessive. Although I'm not sure I'd display those all together in a frame.

    This one shows up a lot too ...


       That one only came to mind because I've been cataloging my loose minifigures lately and I have pretty much every version of that one.  It took me forever to get through all of those. 
  • dmcc0dmcc0 Nae far fae AberdeenMember Posts: 671
    King_J said:

    Funny you mention Batman.  I've been building these 56 minifigure frames this week and just yesterday had the thought "Man, it would be so cool to fill one of these frames with 56 different Batmen".  I own no Batmen, but that didn't stop me from researching prices for all of them on BrickLink and considering embarking on the dark path.
    I'm currently on that path!  I've got around 50 at the moment I think, but still feels like there I've loads to go and they add more every wave; Haven't even updated my want list with the last wave yet.  Resigned to the fact I'll never have them all though, can't justify some of the silly prices for comic-con exclusives etc.
  • CommanderRaabCommanderRaab Edinburgh, ScotlandMember Posts: 597
    This is a good article on the difference between the two:

    http://jaysbrickblog.com/2016/02/28/review-lego-10721-juniors-iron-man-vs-loki/


    My favourite line from that article :)
    For example, I don’t think that they will start pumping out Classic Space sets, or UCS Millennium Falcons or Cafe Corners but the key takeaway here is that nothing is safe


    SprinkleOtter
  • LuLegoLuLego UKMember Posts: 893
    I bought the juniors Ironman to fill the gap believing it was the same figure.
    Thanks for linking the interesting article @Th1nDiesel
    The article mentions slight differences, but to be honest these can also be seen in the same figure. You’ve only got to look at the variation in printing in the MF Black VIP Card holders’ to see that.

    I don’t think I’ll be buying both Ironman figures but will still consider my collection complete.
  • Th1nDieselTh1nDiesel UKMember Posts: 515
    @LuLego Yes, that's why I did. I already had the Quinjet set so never bothered with the other one when I was buying individual Iron Man figures.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    edited January 10
    Just remember when reading it, that the article is wrong.
  • HugeYellowBrickHugeYellowBrick At my PCMember Posts: 482
    But does it answer the question "Why are these minifigures different?" rather than "How are these minifigures different?".
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    The minifigures are made of the same parts, with the only difference being the two transparent cylinders for the feet. 
    thenos
  • Th1nDieselTh1nDiesel UKMember Posts: 515
    edited January 11
    But why are those cylinders classed as part of the minifigure and not treated as a separate item like a weapon? As an example, the Winter Soldier minifigure sh257 appears in two sets, both with different guns but only gets one listing.

    It makes more sense when there is something about the figure itself tahtbia different, like the two Mark 42 figures (where one has a plain head). However, in my eyes they're still the same figure. 
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,111
    Your argument is with Bricklink, it's their weird logic
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    But why are those cylinders classed as part of the minifigure and not treated as a separate item like a weapon? As an example, the Winter Soldier minifigure sh257 appears in two sets, both with different guns but only gets one listing.

    It makes more sense when there is something about the figure itself tahtbia different, like the two Mark 42 figures (where one has a plain head). However, in my eyes they're still the same figure. 
    Because that is the rule at bricklink. Or at least, an interpretation of a rule that  an admin applied at the time. Hand held items are usually not included - this goes as far as not included Wolverine's claws. They are part of his body (albeit retractable) but are still not included as an admin decided that they are hand held weapons.

    So while "powers / energy effects" connected to the feet are included, hand-held powers are not.

    Another recent contradiction, Sweet Mayhem has been catalogued like this:


    When according to the LEGO instructions, she should have "energy effect" type things coming out of her feet. There was an argument last week about this (between BL admins, although one has since resigned (for other reasons)): https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1122928



    Yet another contradiction, minifigures with ice and roller skates are allowed. However, minifigures wearing skis are not. Crazy.

    These are the sort of problems when rules are written before a lot of these items and minifigures were developed and the rules never updated to keep up with the times. So they try to stick to the rules without really applying common sense as to what should be included in a minifigure. 

    There was also talk last week of cataloguing minifigures including handheld accessories, meaning that there would instantly be many more minifigures, differing by hand held elements rather than body parts.
    LuLegoBaby_YodaSprinkleOtter
  • Baby_YodaBaby_Yoda The world's backsideMember Posts: 1,174
    That'd be a nightmare if they catalogued based on handheld accessories! Considering many sets don't even explicitly indicate whether certain items are meant for certain figures, and many once generic and common figures would be split into a multitude of different designs each exclusive to a given set. It makes sense in some regards, but it'd seriously confuse many others.
    Bumblepantsgmonkey76
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Sofia BG/Dallas TXMember Posts: 5,653
    Baby_Yoda said:
    That'd be a nightmare if they catalogued based on handheld accessories! Considering many sets don't even explicitly indicate whether certain items are meant for certain figures, and many once generic and common figures would be split into a multitude of different designs each exclusive to a given set. It makes sense in some regards, but it'd seriously confuse many others.
    I sometimes wonder if Bricklink has 'overly complicated' as a design goal.
    OldfanSumoLegoBaby_YodaSprinkleOtter
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,731
    ^ I agree - but their messageboard is beyond antiquated and simplistic.
    Bumblepantssid3windrAanchirSprinkleOtter
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,515
    edited January 12
    Baby_Yoda said:
    That'd be a nightmare if they catalogued based on handheld accessories! Considering many sets don't even explicitly indicate whether certain items are meant for certain figures, and many once generic and common figures would be split into a multitude of different designs each exclusive to a given set. It makes sense in some regards, but it'd seriously confuse many others.
    BL rules are typically based on what is shown in the instructions.
  • bandit778bandit778 Docking Bay 94. Member Posts: 1,904
    CCC said:
    When according to the LEGO instructions, she should have "energy effect" type things coming out of her feet. There was an argument last week about this (between BL admins, although one has since resigned (for other reasons)): https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1122928
    Found it mildly amusing how this thread mentions a Bricklink thread that mentions this Brickset discussion as a point of reference.


    Baby_YodathenosBumblepantsstluxOldfandatsunrobbieSprinkleOtter
  • Th1nDieselTh1nDiesel UKMember Posts: 515
    ^ Brickception?
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 11,731
    ^ Brickception?
    I'm waiting for my top to stop spinning...


    Also, this is rumours start on the internet.
    AstrobricksSprinkleOtter
  • AstrobricksAstrobricks Minnesota, USMember Posts: 2,314
    How?
    SprinkleOtter
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,731
    SumoLego said:
    ^ I agree - but their messageboard is beyond antiquated and simplistic.
    Amen....
    SumoLego
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