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I have seen that often it is the younger that gravitate to generic themes...Castle, Pirates, Space, Police, Fire...but.. they quickly transition out of these themes in today’s society to more licensed detailed themes. These generic themes were huge when I was a kid for a much larger age range than they are today. In preschool, I might see kids play those type of generic themes, but by the time they were hitting K-2nd in the states, many of them were far more into a theme like Ninjago, Star Wars, Marvel/DC. This was not the case when I was a kid. Generic themes just ran far longer. (Lego ran across this when they tried a reboot of Western, and found that it truly was a dead theme and not really a younger kid theme.)
Because of this, I think putting out these sorts of generic themes today, are not going to do as well with the group where the real sales are (6-10 year olds).
I almost think what Lego needs to do is make a Lego Classic Theme line or rebrand Lego City to something like that. Then is your theme you have your generic items such as Police/Fire/Pirates/Space/Castle, where your sellers are really targeted to your much younger builder. Imaginext actually did something like this, so it seems they recognized the reality of some of these generic themes.
They just need to figure out what the analogous large sets are of fire and police station in those added lines. Obviously for Castle it is a Castle, and Pirate is probably a ship. Then either you keep refreshing those 5 themes, or you target 4 of them out at once, and continual rotate one back in, and you continually refresh your big seller.
Then you still have your detailed license specific castles in your various lines, from HP, Nexo Nights, Chima, Elves, Angry Birds, etc.
I actually think a modern day castle theme in terms of Fortnite, would sell crazy well to their core, even while that is truly not what many AFOL’s would like. What I think would be awesome for AFOLs would be for TLG do a Castle them akin to modulars. A modular castle system, where there is one big release a year. I think that would better fit.
But I have no problem with Lego making a series aimed primarily at girls (my daughter has quite a few of the sets), I just wonder if it would have sold better and lasted longer if it had been marketed towards girls and boys. I bought half a dozen Farran minidolls that my son plays with when he plays with his sister.
With regard to the question I asked at the end of my last post, I get the sense you're securely in the latter camp. That's not something you have to apologize for… so long as you understand that doesn't mean LEGO is totally letting down kids and adults with a taste for castles and related medieval fantasy sets. And as I said in my earlier reply in this topic, I have the utmost confidence that another take on LEGO Castle will be coming before long. It always does, even if the form it takes isn't always to everyone's particular tastes (least of all mine).
The rest of your comment about facial hair is mis-directed as these were also the first years where Lego started to get more detailed with the faces which by today's standards are pretty plain but more detailed nonetheless. Other than lipstick there wasn't much they could do for female representation.
I still don't see a downside for putting mostly or all male characters in what is generally a boys toy line. And there is nothing wrong with assigning gender roles to people. I also defy you to find more than .00000000001 percent of the female population on the earth having thick dark facial hair. That trait is practically unheard of.
Other than lipstick there wasnt much they could do? Truly? Im not sure if you’ve noticed but lipstick isnt what defines men and women, its quite easy to make designs that are women without giving lipstick if thats the goal.
I’d argue that Lego is certainly much less of a ‘boys’ line then it once was, so introducing a better balance of men and women is much better. Not to mention the idea that boys cant enjoy a line of toys as much if it has female characters is utterly ridiculous, I suppose the millions of children now growing up with Star Wars cant enjoy the films because the protagonist is now a girl. (Id also argue gender roles are inherently not good, they’re literally key to why sexism is prevalent in society!)
My comment about lipstick was meant for the times. Look at the smiley faces back then, the print was too fat for a lot of detail to be printed in that small of an area. The capabilities and quality have gotten much better since then.
You are completely incorrect about sexism being caused by gender roles. Sexism's root cause is a lack of respect, period.
Obviously a lack of respect is part of it, but ingraining in the minds of children that boys or girls can only be (or should be) certain things is extremely harmful. It paves the way for harmful thinking
Lord of the Rings- I wasn’t buying Legos when these were available and this is a theme I would love to own.
Indiana Jones- once again I wasn’t buying Legos at the time, but I just picked up 4 sets at a garage sale and love how they are completely packed with play features.
Halloween- not necessarily Monster Fighters, you don’t need to fight them. But let’s just say that my daughter started asking when Halloween was back in May and still won’t stop talking about it. We need to have Halloween monster minifigures! Also, pumpkins would be extremely important as well.
Mickey Mouse- they now exist in Duplo, which is great for my daughter, but my son has outgrown Duplos but would definitely love some Mickey Mouse sets.
Ewoks- I know, Star Wars is Legos biggest seller, but it’s been forever since they released any Ewoks sets, plus there needs to be some affordable ones. Imagine if they made sets for the Ewoks movies, I probably watched those more as a kid than I watched Star Wars, of course it helped that we had recorded it onto VHS.
This is not to say that I don't fully appreciate some of the castles Lego has produced in recent years. I was all over the D2C Cinderella's Castle model. It's an amazing build! I've a couple of thier other castle-esque sets as well, from the Little Mermaid (I bought this one mainly to get Sebastian to tuck into the kitchen in the Cinderella castle, hahaha) and Eclipso's Castle from the SHG line (actually one of my top ten sets, ever, that one!). I did eye several of the Elves sets, but I never did jump in. I understand that I've missed out on some great sets though. The minidolls and brightly coloured parts don't bother me in the slightest. If it's fun to build and looks sharp on a shelf, I'm all set.
I do appreciate that castles are ever present in Lego's product line. I just have a hankering for the castles I enjoyed as a kid, with all of the banners and medieval accouterments. I won't lose any sleep if it never happens, but I was just glibly replying to the thread topic. I'm sorry that it started a heated debate about gender politics.
@Aanchir I learned long ago that it is simply not worth it on this site to have any sort of discussion in regards to gender.
Again, while I truly understand the want of AFOLs to have those classic themes they grew up with, I think the reality of today’s kids and play is different. Those generic themes truly are far more often geared to preschool kids, while many school kids have gravitated to licensed sets. It is why I think for TLG to release a classic Castle set, they have to go one of two directions...
1) to add Castle, Pirate and classic Space into a new line akin and targeted at the same age range and easier complexity as Police and Fire
2) Create a really awesome modular Castle line, akin to the modulars, carnival, etc. lines that is actually targeted at AFOLs. Think LOTR Castle, but on steroids.
I think focusing on those two niche areas would actual have reasonable sales. I think based on the disappointment by many of Hogwarts being microfig, and not a monstrous large minifig castle that could have been modular, indicates that option 2 is a very viable area for sales.
As @tamamahm said, these conversations are sadly fruitless here.
My final note on the subject: you know a side has no true response to a debate when terms like SJW are tossed arround meaninglessly.
I should also like to mention that for the time period vikings were around (I forget the exact dates I think it was like 900AD to the 12th century or something) Viking women had the most rights of all women in the world. They were allowed fight to defend their farms and homes while the men were away 'going a viking' and I believe could have some sort of democratic say in matters (the men still had more rights but it was pretty good for the time period). So in a Viking theme, female warriors would be acceptable.
But in a regular European medieval theme Aanchir, they would NOT. Whether its political correctness or simply a design choice, there should not be female knights or soldiers in a historical setting. Lego could do a medieval theme which is sort of Lion Knights VS 'barbarians' (they wouldnt be called barbarians maybe just wolf clan or something but be obviously be based on the Huns and barbarian tribes of present day Germany and central Europe) in which case, again, female warriors (for example Boudicca [not spelt right sorry] although she would need to be in a Roman theme) would be acceptable/somewhat make sense.
I also believe that people really just need to accept that girls and boys are interested in different things and however much society tries to ban everything old and hate all tradition boys are going to want to play with knights and castles (and maybe dragons and skeleton warriors or whatever) and girls are going to want to play 'shops' or have more French chateau style castles with Disney princesses. Btw, Aanchir, we know its 2019 and it doesnt matter whether its 1719, 1919 or 2019 boys are NOT interested in barbie doll rip off elf/fairies whose main colours and pink, purple and teal. (and yes we all know 'its just a colour' but you can push breaking gender stereotypes as much as you want, boys go for blue, girls go for pink, its not discrimination or a huge problem, its just life)
The Vikings actually did have a very fair and democratic society for that period. Villages regularly held a thing called, well, a Thing, and it somewhat resembles our modern day court system. However, I doubt Lego would ever go for a hyper-realistic Vikings theme. Fantasy Vikings is niche as it is.
Blue/pink being assigned to male/female is most certainly not "just life". In fact, up until roughly the late 19th century, pink was considered masculine and blue feminine. This is because pink is essentially a lighter shade of red, which symbolises passion, conflict, strength etc. whereas blue symbolises calmness, empathy and to an extent intelligence.
An original IP theme I pitched to designers in a competition on my Inside Tour was a slightly different sci-fi route. It suggested a world further in the future where robots had become controlled by a sentient hive mind (thanks to an experimental power crystal/mineral) and had found a way to EMP or disable all other human technology. But rather than going the typical apocalyptic route, I was suggesting that the humans fought back in hand-built contraptions predominately made from natural resources like logs, stone etc. More importantly, the robots can't stand water and try to avoid the natural world - it's like kryptonite to them.
The idea was that the humans would have some mechanism-heavy vehicles and dwellings quite colourful with foliage and plants whilst the robots are mostly black or grey with trans-red or pink accents. The robots want to gather more power crystals (something to collect and trigger conflict like some of our favourite themes) whilst the human characters focus on destroying the hive mind - and perhaps develop their own little characteristics and back stories along the way (akin to Ninjago/Nexo Knights). Some of the topics here are somewhat familiar so I can't claim it's 100% original - but I'd like something like this to replace the slot previously used by Nexo Knights. I also think some sets could have additional cross-appeal to girls particularly if one or more of the main characters was female, but admit this might be a harder sell if the theme doesn't use minidolls (I can see why Aanchir suggested them for an Exo Force reboot, perhaps to broaden the appeal).
Pretty sure the old themes I'd like to return won't return in the format I'd like again - although I do like the way we're getting more creative space craft and gender crossover in Lego Movie 2 sets for example. I've never particularly bought much of TLG's girls themes historically - but I can't get enough of my Pop-up Party Bus!
A) Elves is not a Barbie doll rip off
B) My son was quite interested in Elves, and could have cared less about the color
C) It is what society and marketing pushes onto kids that causes them to go for pink and blue, and has nothing to do with anything else. I have a son who is equally happy with a bright pink HP Pygmy puff blanket as he is with his dark blue Star Wars blanket. Why the love of a pink blanket, because it is freaking awesome Pygmy puff, and Nothing wrong with pink. I had girls just as easily prefer blue over pink.
D) The idea that girls like X and boys like Y and that is it, is just silly. Nope. My son never wanted to play knights and castle. Nope. My girls never wanted to play shops and French chateau style (not even sure what that is supposed to be) . In fact, most people I know with kids where certain toys expectations have not been pushed over other toys, have had kids with a vast range of interests. It doesn’t mean that a boy may not love cars, but may also love a wider range of interests. It does not means girls might not love dolls, but here, dolls were action figures, escaping volcanoes, climbing mountains, dodging evil villains, and the idea of my girls having just sat and and played shop because that is what girls do, is laughable..
E) None of the above matters. These discussions truly do not go anywhere. Person says X. Person says Y. Eyerolls across the board from everyone on everyone’s comments, and nobody has a different opinion. I mean really. Nothing I said above will cause someone to go, “WOW you are right. I have been wrong all this time. I can see now that there is a certain impact on kids based on what marketing and society pushes, and that maybe certain preferences are more inate, but that does not mean they are as inate as I was thinking. “ The flip, Nothing someone else said is going to cause me or others to suddenly go, “Wow you were right. All this time I had not realized boys like blue and girls pink, and they only play certain items based on their gender., and their is far more happening that is simply gender and that is just how it is.”
None of this is meant to disparage the classics. But as sacrilegious as it might sound, themes like Ninjago and Friends have raised the bar. So even if themes like Castle and Pirates were still as popular as they'd ever been, it might not guarantee them the kind of annual presence in the LEGO roster it did back when there WEREN'T other themes achieving Town/City levels of success.