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UCS falcon rumours (that turned out to be true!)

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Comments

  • Mr_CrossMr_Cross East Anglia (UK)Member Posts: 1,333
    1. I have to agree on a new cockpit canopy (but I think this is already coming, as discussed earlier in the thread), I'd also welcome a faceted dish for the front something akin to the scala dish maybe?
    2. I'd also like a piece or pieces to more closely represent the docking rings. Whether made from a new curved quarter panel or some form of "macaroni" slope.
    3. The box to 10179 was nice, but I'd love to see a vac formed tray with a selection of pieces being shown off. This is a collector's set, aimed at the AFOL, a touch of nostalgia would be great to make this a real event!
    4. The instructions were a bit unwieldy, I'd prefer two or three books, hardbacks... and whilst we're in fantasy land, lets have them in a slipcase too!
    5. If possible, a greater variation of greebling parts being used, I understand the logistics side of things for Lego to create a set of this size, but it was a little disappointing to have such repetition in parts across the whole of the fuselage.
    I think the 10179 is great, I really enjoyed building it, but to buy any new UCS it needs to be very different, it can't simply be a reiteration using a few new parts.
    VorpalRyuBrickfan50bok2snowhitie
  • LobotLobot UKMember Posts: 984
    How about a Rathtar suckered to the outside of a new cockpit piece?

    It will be covered in Mynocks, so there won't be room unfortunately :-)

     

    Mr_Cross
  • LuccideLuccide Member Posts: 42
    Lobot said:
    How about a Rathtar suckered to the outside of a new cockpit piece?

    It will be covered in Mynocks, so there won't be room unfortunately :-)

     

    With the size of the brick built mynock it only takes one to cover the cockput
    Lobot
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    @Luccide do you know something we don't?
  • LuccideLuccide Member Posts: 42
    @Matt89190
     
    No comment ;)
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    edited July 2017
    @Luccide just give us something - a price, piece count, minifigs, anything, please?
    (Don't judge me - you're all thinking the same thing!)
    Lobot
  • Mr_CrossMr_Cross East Anglia (UK)Member Posts: 1,333
    Lobot said:
    How about a Rathtar suckered to the outside of a new cockpit piece?

    It will be covered in Mynocks, so there won't be room unfortunately :-)

     

    See that ^, there, that's a white 2x2! Han really did make some (very) special modifications!

    WAIT! That's not the scale of the new UCS, a ride in, actual size falcon? Suddenly that £600-£700 is looking like much better value! ;-P
    Bumblepantsmonstblitz
  • ecmo47ecmo47 North CarolinaMember Posts: 2,101
    @CapnRex101. I'm surprised that you didn't start a new thread with your question that is worthy of comment and discussion. 

    I'm pretty much on board with what others have been saying but here are a few more thoughts with the assumption that it will be around the $800.00 price point.

    1. Lots of attention on the interior do not do much for me. I definitely would like to see a detailed cockpit and gunports, places that can be seen from the outside. Interiors can be left for the playset MF's in my book.

    2. Less studs! I would expect this to happen as it would be in line with the current building methods used on Slave 1, TIE Fighter and Snow Speeder. Hopefully we would see a combination of SNOT building and tiles to accomplish this. 

    3. A robust display stand with the MF in flight. This would be a difficult to accomplish since we expect the model to be about 1 yard/meter in length. It certainly would eat into the piece count. Perhaps a better idea would be for Lego to design the model so that it could be mounted on a display stand with plans available on line. Also, engineer in some attachment points so that the model could be suspended.

    4. Make the bottom hull as detailed as the top. 

    5. Illuminated engines and cockpit would be fantastic. 

    6. A rounded cockpit tube vice the 10179 octagon shape.

    7. I'd like to to see them do pre-orderings much like they did with the original release of 10179. All pre-orders would come with some exclusive minfig or certificate. This would give Lego an idea of how much of an initial production run would be needed. Also, I hope that it is available ONLY through Lego so that they can control a strict 1-per-customer limit. If they spring this on the public with little to no warning, it will be another public-relations nightmare.    

    My two cents....
    dspigelomniumcatwrangler
  • masterX244masterX244 GermanyMember Posts: 524
    Mynatt said:
    --SNIP--

    For the instructions, I hope that they do not come spiral bound like the SSD and Death Star. I enjoy the recent way the books have been made and hope it's not like the previous large sets.

    --SNIP--
    spiral bound is easier to lay flat though.
    gmonkey76khmellymelMattDawsonMuftak1
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    @CapnRex101 I think my list would just echo what others have said, but I'll share it nonetheless:
    1) Wider minifigure selection (Nien Nunb!)
    2) Improved cockpit (namely something that's actually enclosed so our figs aren't sucked out into the vastness of space)
    3) Display stand (displaying an MF in landing mode doesn't seem as exciting)
    4) Substantial interior - at the least cockpit, lounge area with dejarik, gunner areas and a corridor or two, but for £600 a full interior would be preferable
    5) Any necessary changes to 10179 exterior to bring it up to date - I'm not saying the original was ugly, but the style of Lego has changed a bit, and with so many new pieces, not updating the exterior would be a huge wasted opportunity
  • waynlewiswaynlewis USAMember Posts: 86


    Spotted!!!! 
    CM4Ssnowhitie
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 13,265
    UCS Akbar?!?!?!?
    MAGNINOMINISUMBRAstluxMynattCM4Spharmjodsid3windrsnowhitie
  • CM4SCM4S United StatesMember Posts: 1,363
    waynlewis said:


    Spotted!!!! 
    Wow that's a huge letdown!! 
  • SirBenSirBen In the Hall of the Mountain KingMember Posts: 577
    Can they squeeze in a helicopter-shaped escape pod too?
    MrKettle
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,865
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
  • BartelasBartelas Hiking Into Mordor Member Posts: 130
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
    Pls just say "1" already! I can't wait for the falcon any longer!
    sid3windr[Deleted User]
  • MynattMynatt OH/NYMember Posts: 592
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
    Well if the price tag is going to be increased to $799 or $899, where will all those extra pieces go to?
  • dmcc0dmcc0 Nae far fae AberdeenMember Posts: 778
    ^Inflation?
    madforLEGOgmonkey76nicoyagomez[Deleted User]
  • CM4SCM4S United StatesMember Posts: 1,363
    Someone I no then kMynatt said:
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
    Well if the price tag is going to be increased to $799 or $899, where will all those extra pieces go to?
    Someone in the know on a Eurobricks claims to have seen the box and that 7500 is roughly the piece count so in case you thought different !!
  • BartelasBartelas Hiking Into Mordor Member Posts: 130
    CM4S said:
    Someone I no then kMynatt said:
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
    Well if the price tag is going to be increased to $799 or $899, where will all those extra pieces go to?
    Someone in the know on a Eurobricks claims to have seen the box and that 7500 is roughly the piece count so in case you thought different !!
    Yeah listen up I have seen it too and oh boy it's fckn massive... roughly 12738 parts, one minifig ( probably an ewok, yeah I'm to dumb to remember) and it costs around 197,98 $€£ 

    BTW: It will be released on the 32nd of August 
    [Deleted User]snowhitie
  • roxioroxio UKMember Posts: 1,350
    Mynatt said:
    I think people are thinking way to much about what the wish for in a new UCS falcon. IMO it is not going to be much different other than improvements to the existing figures and some minor improvements to the build. Why do I say this? Exhibit 'A': The 'new' Death Star.
    Heck I would not be surprised to see the same exact characters as in the first, but updated.

    So, for a lot of folks, be prepared to be disappointed in 5,4,3,2,......
    Well if the price tag is going to be increased to $799 or $899, where will all those extra pieces go to?
    same place as the death star increase, disney $$$£££$$$
    203 extra pieces cost us £135 more 
    madforLEGO
  • Mr_CrossMr_Cross East Anglia (UK)Member Posts: 1,333
    I love the speculation. So little generates anticipation these days. The internet and in particular, certain social media accelerates the desire for the new, and when it ceases to be new (usually when whatever it is drops to the bottom of your feed) i.e. after no time at all, we crave more, new, now!
    When I was a kid, the life cycles of products were longer. It's not just my perceptions it really is "accelerated pace of change". So with the Falcon, I can wait, even if it's disappointment that awaits, the journey there is fun.
    When it finally comes, I'm not going to get upset if it doesn't meet my expectations, I'm an adult and I can make a value judgement call on whether I want it or not. In the meantime, I'm going to be excited for the possibilities of what is to come, a little bit like I am with episode VIII and the debatable chances of there ever being more Classic Space sets!
    catwranglerA.Brickovskybrickventures
  • LuccideLuccide Member Posts: 42
    Just pointing out the death star had no intention of being a new set it was purely to update the old which has been one of the longest running lego sets. The increase is price is almost exactly what you would predict with only inflation.

    @Matt89190 most of that information has already been leaked and is in this thread. The problem is providing ironclad evidence is hard. This is because the design and information has been closely guarded putting up a picture puts friends at risk at the benefit of having a few people on the internet claim you faked it so why bother.

     
  • PmhPmh netherlandsMember Posts: 128
    edited July 2017

    what I would want from a new ucs falcon:

    No:printed structural elements on the outer shell.

    This includes the cockpit. Structure should be created by using lego bricks. Having (big) printed structural elements on the outside (like the normal falcon has now) would make me not want to buy this set! (yes it is that important to me)

    Stickers:Rather not but if it must then its ok with me. Rather stickers with the option to omit them then nothing at all. This set wont need many stickers though I think.

    Yes:detailed interior.

    We have gotten spoiled with nice interiors lately in the modular sets and while I don't mind the absence of an interior with a set like the SSD or other out of scale sets,i think a minifigure scale set (what this seems to be) should have a nice interior. No halve interior pls,where they only make a cockpit and a position for the cannon or something. Interior has to be in the whole falcon,smugling hatches and maybe even details of the engine.

    Minifigures:there should be some minifigures but I personally do not care if they are new, old and or exclusive. Just the main characters will do.

    Overall it should be absolutely awesome for me to buy it,price above 600 will probably be to high even when it is awesome. I hope they can get a deal on this license with starwars,you pay like 50% extra for starwars sets and with such a big set that becomes an annoyingly high amount.


  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,120
    Luccide said:
    Just pointing out the death star had no intention of being a new set it was purely to update the old which has been one of the longest running lego sets. The increase is price is almost exactly what you would predict with only inflation.

    It is a new set, as it has a new number. Of course, lego's POV could be why improve what is already perfect at that part count. So just re-release as a new set.

    What will they do with the Falcon? Probably minor improvements but not much. People want the old UCS Falcon as it is (secondary market prices), so why make the new one deviate from it too much? Give the people what they want at minimal cost to the company.
  • CaptAPJTCaptAPJT Member Posts: 223
    I don't mind the absence of an interior with a set like the SSD or other out of scale sets
    SSD has a bridge section interior which I'm pretty sure no one has ever shown on display.

    im down with having a limited interior. A turret section that lifts off to show a lounge area. I'm conscious that this will be a huge model (if it exists) and that internally we might have to make some concessions for structure. 

    As I'm all about display having a dynamic option appeals to me, much like we got with 10240 maybe where the bottom quad turret is removeable to accept a stand. Admittedly with a model of the anticipated size and mass it might just not be possible.

    love the idea of power functions, illuminated engines, cockpit, nav light. While we're at it why not even include motorised rotating turrets. It doesn't have to be included in the set but if they put in the option to add it then they'll probably get even more of my money.

    Talking of price I guess I'd struggle to pay any more than a high 3 figure number.

    Minifigs aren't my thing, so long as I have a Han and Chewie to sit in the cockpit I'll be fine. 
  • sid3windrsid3windr BelgiumMember Posts: 1,452
    dmcc0 said:
    ^Inflation?
    Wow, inflatable LEGO? What will they come up with next! :D
    Mr_Cross
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    Serious questions for those talking about increased size and complete interior.  How much larger than minifig scale do you want it?  How do you envisage a complete interior while retaining structural integrity?
    Bumblepants
  • BobflipBobflip Member Posts: 546
    CCC said:
    Luccide said:
    Just pointing out the death star had no intention of being a new set it was purely to update the old which has been one of the longest running lego sets. The increase is price is almost exactly what you would predict with only inflation.

    It is a new set, as it has a new number. Of course, lego's POV could be why improve what is already perfect at that part count. So just re-release as a new set.

    What will they do with the Falcon? Probably minor improvements but not much. People want the old UCS Falcon as it is (secondary market prices), so why make the new one deviate from it too much? Give the people what they want at minimal cost to the company.
    Of course there's some Lego sets that have a couple of set numbers. Good points though.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,562
    Serious questions for those talking about increased size and complete interior.  How much larger than minifig scale do you want it?  How do you envisage a complete interior while retaining structural integrity?
    Good point. I would hate for an interior to compromise the exterior shape and design in any way. If the outside of the ship is responsible for structural integrity it almost certainly will.
    MAGNINOMINISUMBRA
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    I've got a reasonably good idea of the Falcon that most fans want - I've got no idea whatsoever how they expect it to stay together...
    Mr_CrossRainstorm26
  • LyichirLyichir United StatesMember Posts: 875
    edited July 2017
    Serious questions for those talking about increased size and complete interior.  How much d larger than minifig scale do you want it?  How do you envisage a complete interior while retaining structural integrity?
    Good point. I would hate for an interior to compromise the exterior shape and design in any way. If the outside of the ship is responsible for structural integrity it almost certainly will.
    How accurate would you necessarily need the interior to be? One thing I've noticed in some sets is that for interior space that is only visible when "opened", you don't necessarily need the space to be a realistic height. You can display figs when the set is opened to show the interior and remove them or sit them down when you close it up, since only the cockpit is visible from outside.

    Another related option is a partial interior like in the Super Star Destroyer set. If display space for figs is all you need, you could potentially fit enough space for a small scene (say, the area with the Dejarik table) without necessarily having it in the correct scale and position to correspond to the ship exterior, or having to include less essential spaces like corridors.
  • drdesignzdrdesignz USMember Posts: 104
    I would like a hot chicks room, in my MF.  I'd pay 800 for that.
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    So I was thinking about everything we actually know, and I decided it was time to compile. Why? Because I like compiling. Here you go:
    • A UCS Falcon is coming. This has been stated by numerous reliable sources, and the "coming soon" thing on [email protected] also provides strong circumstantial evidence.
    • It will have two radar dishes to switch between OT and ST. Confirmed by our very own @Paperballpark.
    • It will cost roughly $800. Confirmed by Stash2Sixx on EB. We might not like the dude, but he does know stuff.
    • It will have close to 7500 pieces. Confirmed by TragicBanjo on EB, who saw @CM4Sci's fake leak and noted how he was close with the piece count.
    • Allegedly, it has 7 figures.I don't know if this is reliable, and I just noticed it today, but this was stated by someone else (LEGOscum) after seeing Sci's leak. I don't know if he's a reliable source.
    • The packaging will somehow differ to previous UCS sets. Stated by TragicBanjo, who was commenting on how the fake leakers' assumptions were wrong.
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit. As stated by our own @Luccide (If you want to share anything else, tell me within the next 6 minutes so I can update this post :P)

    I think that's everything. I hope you find this useful and informative :)

    CM4SPaperballparkBartelasC0chiseecmo47SeanTheCollectorFowlerBricksricecakesnowhitie
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark UK / KLMember Posts: 3,864
    ^ I think @Luccide was joking when he said that...

    Also, I was only telling what I've been told by what I consider to be two reliable sources :)
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    ^Do your two reliable sources want to tell anything else? :p
  • catwranglercatwrangler Northern IrelandMember Posts: 1,854
    Okay, with the proviso that I'll never be able to afford this thing, but clearly there's an element of fantasising/wish-fulfilment here:

    - light-up engines and cockpit: whenever there's a MOC that has this we all go wild, so clearly it's something that needs to happen and would look amazing on display
    - if there must be stickers, then none on curved or round pieces
    - I'm relaxed about minifigs; OT would be nice but as long as Han and Chewie are there in some form, what's not to like
    - for the love of bricks, ONE per customer on the official website - the pre-order someone suggested above might not be a bad idea
    bandit778omnium
  • bandit778bandit778 Docking Bay 94. Member Posts: 2,158
    edited July 2017

    - if there must be stickers, then none on curved, round or transparent pieces.
    You forgot one (damn speck of dust stuck under the sticker).  ;)
    omniumcatwrangler
  • BartelasBartelas Hiking Into Mordor Member Posts: 130
    Matt89190 said:
    So I was thinking about everything we actually know, and I decided it was time to compile. Why? Because I like compiling. Here you go:
    • A UCS Falcon is coming. This has been stated by numerous reliable sources, and the "coming soon" thing on [email protected] also provides strong circumstantial evidence.
    • It will have two radar dishes to switch between OT and ST. Confirmed by our very own @Paperballpark.
    • It will cost roughly $800. Confirmed by Stash2Sixx on EB. We might not like the dude, but he does know stuff.
    • It will have close to 7500 pieces. Confirmed by TragicBanjo on EB, who saw @CM4Sci's fake leak and noted how he was close with the piece count.
    • Allegedly, it has 7 figures.I don't know if this is reliable, and I just noticed it today, but this was stated by someone else (LEGOscum) after seeing Sci's leak. I don't know if he's a reliable source.
    • The packaging will somehow differ to previous UCS sets. Stated by TragicBanjo, who was commenting on how the fake leakers' assumptions were wrong.
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit. As stated by our own @Luccide (If you want to share anything else, tell me within the next 6 minutes so I can update this post :P)

    I think that's everything. I hope you find this useful and informative :)

    Now that's something. I really do hope that they have redesigned it completely (7500 pieces!!!),there are a lot of new pieces and building techniques out there since then... I mean they had nearly a decade to do so.
  • monstblitzmonstblitz Alexandria, VAMember Posts: 622
    Matt89190 said:
    So I was thinking about everything we actually know, and I decided it was time to compile. Why? Because I like compiling. Here you go:
    • A UCS Falcon is coming. This has been stated by numerous reliable sources, and the "coming soon" thing on [email protected] also provides strong circumstantial evidence.
    • It will have two radar dishes to switch between OT and ST. Confirmed by our very own @Paperballpark.
    • It will cost roughly $800. Confirmed by Stash2Sixx on EB. We might not like the dude, but he does know stuff.
    • It will have close to 7500 pieces. Confirmed by TragicBanjo on EB, who saw @CM4Sci's fake leak and noted how he was close with the piece count.
    • Allegedly, it has 7 figures.I don't know if this is reliable, and I just noticed it today, but this was stated by someone else (LEGOscum) after seeing Sci's leak. I don't know if he's a reliable source.
    • The packaging will somehow differ to previous UCS sets. Stated by TragicBanjo, who was commenting on how the fake leakers' assumptions were wrong.
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit. As stated by our own @Luccide (If you want to share anything else, tell me within the next 6 minutes so I can update this post :P)

    I think that's everything. I hope you find this useful and informative :)

    "Know"?  I'll let @SumoLego handle this...
    stlux
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    ^Uh oh. I guess I brought this upon myself......
  • roxioroxio UKMember Posts: 1,350
    Matt89190 said:
    So I was thinking about everything we actually know, and I decided it was time to compile. Why? Because I like compiling. Here you go:
    • A UCS Falcon is coming. This has been stated by numerous reliable sources, and the "coming soon" thing on [email protected] also provides strong circumstantial evidence.
    • It will have two radar dishes to switch between OT and ST. Confirmed by our very own @Paperballpark.
    • It will cost roughly $800. Confirmed by Stash2Sixx on EB. We might not like the dude, but he does know stuff.
    • It will have close to 7500 pieces. Confirmed by TragicBanjo on EB, who saw @CM4Sci's fake leak and noted how he was close with the piece count.
    • Allegedly, it has 7 figures.I don't know if this is reliable, and I just noticed it today, but this was stated by someone else (LEGOscum) after seeing Sci's leak. I don't know if he's a reliable source.
    • The packaging will somehow differ to previous UCS sets. Stated by TragicBanjo, who was commenting on how the fake leakers' assumptions were wrong.
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit. As stated by our own @Luccide (If you want to share anything else, tell me within the next 6 minutes so I can update this post :P)

    I think that's everything. I hope you find this useful and informative :)

    So we are where we were then, a bunch of unsubstantiated rumours ;)
    stluxMr_Crossprevere
  • Matt89190Matt89190 UKMember Posts: 307
    roxio said:
    So we are where we were then, a bunch of unsubstantiated rumours ;)
    A bunch of unsubstantiated compiled rumors!
    Mr_CrossGothamConstructionCoJohnyk668SumoLegobobabrickssonsofscevacatwrangler
  • MynattMynatt OH/NYMember Posts: 592
    edited July 2017
    Matt89190 said:
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit
    Feeling mildly self conscious when ever Mynocks are mentioned. That being said I would accept one in the set with open arms.
  • Habitant99Habitant99 FloridaMember Posts: 99
    bandit778 said:

    - if there must be stickers, then none on curved, round or transparent pieces.
    You forgot one (damn speck of dust stuck under the sticker).  ;)
    1,000,000 times YES!
  • sid3windrsid3windr BelgiumMember Posts: 1,452
    UCS Rumor Compilation July 2017 - You'll never believe what happened next!
  • monstblitzmonstblitz Alexandria, VAMember Posts: 622
    Matt89190 said:
    ^Uh oh. I guess I brought this upon myself......
    I think it's a fine list, except for that word "KNOW".  It's a well compiled list of the rumors and speculation from both boards though!
    SumoLego
  • LobotLobot UKMember Posts: 984
    Mynatt said:
    Matt89190 said:
    • It will have a brick-built Mynock, which will be large enough to cover the cockpit
    Feeling mildly self conscious when ever Mynocks are mentioned. That being said I would accept one in the set with open arms

    Perhaps they'll just re-purpose the old Ewok glider from 8038; don't worry the thought of heavily armed, flying, carnivorous teddy bears scares me as well......

  • TheFewTheFew EnglandMember Posts: 1,526
    Is there a new UCS MF yet?
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    A Rumsfeld known unknowns meme would be handy right now...
    TheFewRainstorm26gmonkey76snowhitie
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