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Castle Theme: Dissecting the sub-genres.

aplbomr79aplbomr79 Member Posts: 159
edited February 2012 in Collecting
For you Castle AFOL's, I am wondering...

Do you classify your Sets and Minifigs by year, Series Release (such as Kingdoms or KKI), or by faction (Black Falcons, Wolfpack)?

My guess is the majority do so by faction. And so I then wonder, why does Brickset still allow for grouping of some Castle factions into Series Releases? It does not appear that Space is organized the same way...

I would say that there should be recognition for the Green Dragon Knights and the Kingdoms Knights (Which need a new name - this is too bland). I would also suggest that Knights Kingdom I needs a revision. There are the Bull Knights, and the ??? (King Leo Knights - I am fine with this, by the way).

I know I may have created a maelstrom, but I am working on a project and KKI, Classic Castle, and Kingdoms are really throwing a wrench into the works!

Please - let's hash it out.

Comments

  • Chang405Chang405 Member Posts: 88
    The other faction in Kingdoms is called the Red Lion Knights
  • davee123davee123 USAMember Posts: 815
    The problem with classifying by faction is that many sets don't fall under a single faction-- they can have 2 or more factions represented. And (of course) some sets like 6018 aren't really clear in terms of their affiliation with a particular faction.

    I would argue that attempting to classify a set into a *single* faction is too limiting-- any organizational structure should allow for a set to belong to *multiple* factions.

    For castle in particular, you've got no factions at all (everything's generic) from 1978-1983. So, that doesn't even really fit into ANY faction. From 1984-1997, factions are pretty clearly established, although there are some exceptions like 6010, 6041, 6018, etc. which are unclear as to which faction they belong. After that, castle seemed to break into different releases, like Ninja, Knight's Kingdom I, Vikings, Knight's Kingdom 2, Fantasy sets, and Kingdoms, which ... don't necessarily follow clear faction lines. And THEN you've got 10176 (maybe others?) that's just a standalone set.

    Out of curiosity, what's the project?

    DaveE
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 1,962
    I tend when working factions have the crusaders and red lion knights together as one faction with crusaders as lower knights. They have the same shield design in many ways so makes sense.

    Cause when it comes to castles etc they just lose all defining markers and murged into a super castle. seige equip etc again is a free for all
  • aplbomr79aplbomr79 Member Posts: 159
    I understand the complexity of the issue, that is why I posted this. What is the accepted name of the 'heros' of 10176?

    We know the Green Dragons, (just learned the Red Lions monikor), the Black Knights, Wolfpack, Dark Forest, the infamous Black Falcons...

    It just seems that LEGO Castle is a muddied theme. I am trying to sort it all out. That, in some semblance, my goal @davee123 I am trying to sort it all out. Hopefully in a few months I will have my project ready. But again, I need to sort it out as TLG never did.
  • davee123davee123 USAMember Posts: 815
    What is the accepted name of the 'heros' of 10176?
    I don't think there's an "accepted" name, actually. The set was SUPPOSEDLY inspired by 6090 ("Royal Knights"), but the emblem used is from KK1 ("King Leo's Knights"), and the knights themselves are most similar to the 3rd wave of KK2 ("Knights of Morcia"). I would expect hobbyists to be divided on the issue.
    I am trying to sort it all out. That, in some semblance, my goal @davee123 I am trying to sort it all out. Hopefully in a few months I will have my project ready. But again, I need to sort it out as TLG never did.
    :) People have been trying to do that for quite a while, but there's rarely any actual agreement. Some people adamantly insist that "Crusaders" is the incorrect name of the lion/cross-axe theme from 1984-1992 or so, and insist that they're called "Lion Knights", while others claim that those are distinctly different factions.

    And of course there's the fact that the name "Black Falcons" was never used by the LEGO company to refer to the faction until the newer reference books. From 1984 until 2000+, the theme was essentially nameless. The only time I know of where they're referred to by name is "the guardians of the gray castles", which... isn't all that inspiring.

    Basically, it's fun to sort it out for your own purposes, but the community at large can't seem to come to any sort of universal agreement, because the LEGO company wasn't consistent and was pretty ambiguous in places.

    DaveE
  • natro220natro220 USAMember Posts: 545
    I like to think of some of the factions as allies - I have the Lion Knights/Crusaders from the '80's and '90's allied with the King Leo and Red Lion factions, and the Black Knights/Dragon Knights from the 80's and 90's allied with the Green Dragons of today. They have their separate "kingdoms", but share symbols and fight together. That sounds like an interesting project though!
  • VorpalVorpal Member Posts: 11
    Well I think everyone believed the Black Falcons were the Black Falcons because of the super popular Black Falcon's Fortress.

    The axe/lion guys I think we called Lion Knights (don't remember why) but then I think the 'crusader' guys were the ones that opposed the Dragon Knights (the ones with the new shield and the scale mail instead of the lion/axe tunics.

    Then there the wolfpack and foresters, but those were pretty easy to explain.

    I like knowing which faction is in which set but setting up a 1:1 correspondence between them would be very hard.
  • davee123davee123 USAMember Posts: 815
    Well I think everyone believed the Black Falcons were the Black Falcons because of the super popular Black Falcon's Fortress.
    Exactly-- people interpreted it as "Black Falcons' Fortress". Essentially, since there wasn't a name provided for the faction, the closest thing to a name stuck like glue.
    The axe/lion guys I think we called Lion Knights (don't remember why) but then I think the 'crusader' guys were the ones that opposed the Dragon Knights (the ones with the new shield and the scale mail instead of the lion/axe tunics.
    "Lion Knights" was (I believe?) used to describe the faction in the UK. In the USA, the only time a name was used at all was late in the theme (1992 catalogs, I think), where they were referred to as "Crusaders". But I believe there were only 2 sets where the chain mail torso was used with the lion crest emblem-- 1480 (from 1991) and 6081 (from 1990).

    DaveE
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