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LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

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  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    speaking of Apple, is there a less intuitive, more buggy, terribly designed and performing POS software than iTunes ?  Why am I still forced to use this trash for certain things I need to do with my phone.  it's maddening
    davetheoxygenmanPitfall69plasmodiumSumoLegoBrickfan50
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,313
    TheBigLegoski said:
    Uugh!
    People comparing Lego to Apple, how ludicrous.

    The big huge vast enormous gigantuous difference:
    • Apple is all about: worship how we have decided you can only use our products as we see fit. Buy it now! Not because the last version you bought was at the end of its 'life cycle', has become obsolete, but because we have released a new version we want you to buy. Show off to all your hipster/snobby friends your new Apple product that in many cases doesn't do anything your last apple product didn't already do too.
    So what happened with the Death Star ...
    Pitfall69datsunrobbieRecceJern92Rainstorm26lordzarak
  • TheBigLegoskiTheBigLegoski Amsterdam, NederlandMember Posts: 1,435
    ^
    What about that piece of technological terror...............
    Pitfall69
  • MaffyDMaffyD West YorkshireMember Posts: 3,241
    edited September 2016
    ^^ That's funny. But I'll think it an adequate comparison when I find people carrying around the Death Star in their pockets, brandishing it so people can see the logo on every stud, and talking about how all the new functions change the product completely, despite being only marginal changes individually. :-)
    TheBigLegoskiPitfall69SumoLegoTheMaker37
  • plasmodiumplasmodium UKMember Posts: 1,950
    dougts said:
    speaking of Apple, is there a less intuitive, more buggy, terribly designed and performing POS software than iTunes ?  Why am I still forced to use this trash for certain things I need to do with my phone.  it's maddening
    Rhythmbox on Linux is a 'clone' in the sense that it has a main window with column browser and iPod support, but works much better because it's so much simpler. Less time faffing with DRM and other useless features - more time making software that does what it's supposed to.
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,979
    Pitfall69 said:
    Recce said:
    It's interesting to compare Apple with TLG. Apple is no longer a monopoly whereas TLG still is in terms of the toy bricks market. 

    The first few years of the iphone we saw lots of copycats appearing with Apple launching lawsuits left and right. Thank god that didn't stop the advancement of technological innovations and now we have products from other companies that have better features and at cheaper prices, can't imagine what the world would be like if Apple was able to stop all copycats and remain a monopoly till today, l'd imagine the Apple tax would be astronomical, not that it isn't now (with competitors no less). 

    The Lego tax situation is exactly same as the Apple tax. Even the fan boy behaviours are the same, countless times I've seen and heard people saying "I would never buy a product just because it is not Apple", and blindly disregard logical thinkings of features and price point benefits. A fan boy is a fan boy after all, regardless of which company they worship. 

    No one doubted the efforts of innovators, engineers and designers that throughout the years come out with ideas and brilliantly designed products as they have every right to be monetarily compensated, but when the company is making billions of dollars out of those products you had to wonder how much they really overcharged on the products and when will the monopoly ends. It's a good thing there is a time limit for copyright holders, else they would be earning billions or even trillions till eternity.

    And you know what? The sad truth out of all these is that most if not all of the money are pocketed by the company's top executives with close to nothing left for the actual designers, except the basic salary. 
    What "brilliantly designed products" or "innovative technology" has LEPIN put forth? 
    On top of that, how is LEGO a monopoly? There are plenty of legitimate alternative building toys like Mega Bloks, K'nex, and Kre-O. Which, I suppose, in your analogy, would be analogous to Android or Windows phones — legitimate competition that innovates on the base concept in their own ways, instead of just copying another company's specifications.

    Companies like LEPIN are more like actual iPhone knock-offs like the AirPhone No.4, right down to the shamelessly stolen box art. Sure, they have their fans due to their low price, but they aren't innovating or advancing the industry in any meaningful ways, just leeching off of other people's design and engineering work.
    TheBigLegoski said:
    Uugh!
    People comparing Lego to Apple, how ludicrous.

    The big huge vast enormous gigantuous difference:
    • Lego is all about: do whatever you like with the bricks, be creative or not (keep the sets MISB for all TLG cares). Use your new bricks and 40 year old bricks, and have fun!
    • Apple is all about: worship how we have decided you can only use our products as we see fit. Buy it now! Not because the last version you bought was at the end of its 'life cycle', has become obsolete, but because we have released a new version we want you to buy. Show off to all your hipster/snobby friends your new Apple product that in many cases doesn't do anything your last apple product didn't already do too.
    These kind of stereotypes about Apple products (and fans) really confuse me. First of all, if Apple products somehow stifled creativity, they wouldn't be the standard for so many creative industries. When I began studying Industrial Design in 2012, the computers we used for all of our classes were Apple computers. The new design lab at the college I'm transferring to also uses Apple computers.

    Although I was not used to Apple products in 2012, I quickly adapted, because my new laptop could do everything I ever needed my old one to do without demanding as much maintenance on my part to keep it running smoothly. The biggest drawback I've encountered with my MacBook Pro (which I'm still using today) is that I can't get homebrew LEGO fan software like LDD2POVray or Bluerender to run on it, because they weren't designed to.

    Just a month ago I finally upgraded from my four-year-old 8gb iPhone 4S to a 64gb iPhone SE. The only ways the old phone gave me trouble were that I was running out of space for music and apps, and that some of this year's LEGO apps don't run well on anything older than an iPhone 5. Nothing Apple has done has ever pressured me to upgrade — if anything, it's LEGO whose software developers have consciously chosen to stop designing for four-year-old hardware.

    At this point I guess I'd be comfortable saying I'm an Apple fan, but it's not because I've been brainwashed into worshiping everything they do or buying the newest coolest product every year. Rather, it's because their products have been reliable enough that I've been able to go years without upgrading them, and they don't cause me endless headaches like my old Acer laptop.

    And if you think nobody can make a strawman argument like that about LEGO, just look at any of the innumerable thinkpieces and Facebook rants about how modern LEGO is nothing but collect-them-all consumerism, specialty parts that can only build one thing, kid-unfriendly simulated violence, and soulless pop culture licenses that stifle creativity. One man's "endless creativity" is another man's "mindless brand-worship".
    TheBigLegoskiDiggydoescatwranglerLyichirLegoPegasister2015
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    AustinPowers said:
    @Lunchietey: is that the Lepin SSD instruction manual? Do they make a ringbound version like the Lego original now? I thought they only had standard bound manuals.
    Yeah that's the manual I reecieved. Still has that "is that black or dark grey" issue which takes a few times to get used to and varies with page.

    When I've mentioned some parts are a bit off, I'm saying theyre only a tiny bit off. During the build I often actually forget it's not the real deal. 
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    @AustinPowers

    Heres a shot of the cover
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Aanchir said:

    These kind of stereotypes about Apple products (and fans) really confuse me.
    It's essentially because there are people who've been around long enough to know better. This isn't specific to Apple. If a product, from any manufacturer, is ramped as the best product in a particular field, whether by the manufacturer or their fans, then it will be ridiculed quite justifiably by those who know better - and I mean who KNOW better. And so too will the fans.

    Particularly in the IT industry, the solutions that survive aren't necessarily the best ones but the ones that are best-marketed. We tend to ignore the glitches, hiccups and things that are just a right pain in the proverbial, blaming it on the technology. It's not the technology; it comes down to a designer - and there are people who can see that something's been done in the wrong way. It will never be fixed because, before too long, somebody will go out there and reinvent the wheel, doing the same things in a completely different way that is somehow supposed to be better - but still doesn't quite work the way we want it too.
    Rather, it's because their products have been reliable enough...
    You said it. Don't you think that, after 40 years, Apple (and also Microsoft and even Google and everybody else) might've been able to get a bit further than "reliable enough"?
    TheBigLegoski
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,979
    TigerMoth said:
    You said it. Don't you think that, after 40 years, Apple (and also Microsoft and even Google and everybody else) might've been able to get a bit further than "reliable enough"?
    Maybe. Maybe not. But "reliable enough" is what matters to me when it comes to electronics. I don't believe that a device without any issues whatsoever exists, or that such a device CAN exist. But the Apple computer/phone have given me the least issues of any devices I've used. And since I'm pretty good at tolerating minor issues and not enough of a tech expert to know what issues are fixable, I'd rather settle for what I know works for me than worry about the possibility that it's not the best it could or should be.
    catwrangler
  • RecceRecce Tiny Little Red DotMember Posts: 923
    Pitfall69 said:
    Recce said:
    It's interesting to compare Apple with TLG. Apple is no longer a monopoly whereas TLG still is in terms of the toy bricks market. 

    The first few years of the iphone we saw lots of copycats appearing with Apple launching lawsuits left and right. Thank god that didn't stop the advancement of technological innovations and now we have products from other companies that have better features and at cheaper prices, can't imagine what the world would be like if Apple was able to stop all copycats and remain a monopoly till today, l'd imagine the Apple tax would be astronomical, not that it isn't now (with competitors no less). 

    The Lego tax situation is exactly same as the Apple tax. Even the fan boy behaviours are the same, countless times I've seen and heard people saying "I would never buy a product just because it is not Apple", and blindly disregard logical thinkings of features and price point benefits. A fan boy is a fan boy after all, regardless of which company they worship. 

    No one doubted the efforts of innovators, engineers and designers that throughout the years come out with ideas and brilliantly designed products as they have every right to be monetarily compensated, but when the company is making billions of dollars out of those products you had to wonder how much they really overcharged on the products and when will the monopoly ends. It's a good thing there is a time limit for copyright holders, else they would be earning billions or even trillions till eternity.

    And you know what? The sad truth out of all these is that most if not all of the money are pocketed by the company's top executives with close to nothing left for the actual designers, except the basic salary. 
    What "brilliantly designed products" or "innovative technology" has LEPIN put forth? 
    Er...  the paragraph is about companies like Apple and TLG that earn billions of dollars, how in the world could you think I'm referring to Lepin? 

    And the 3 likes to your post? I can only face palm...
    daewoo
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Aanchir said:

    I don't believe that a device without any issues whatsoever exists, or that such a device CAN exist.
    Better not have any nuclear power stations then! The point is that, today, we don't come close to devices without issues - even when we've developed principles that would do so.
    But the Apple computer/phone have given me the least issues of any devices I've used.
    People get used to the idiosyncrasies of the things they use.

    You like what you have - that's fine. If however, you crossed the line and started believing that what you had was superior, or worse, preaching it, especially if you hadn't really used the competition in anger since you became a convert, that's when you'd become a fan boy and all the stereotypes would be justified. You'd effectively be comparing a pile of mule droppings with a pile of hinny droppings and extolling the virtues of one over the other when you didn't actually know what droppings are.
  • TheBigLegoskiTheBigLegoski Amsterdam, NederlandMember Posts: 1,435
    Recce said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    Recce said:
    It's interesting to compare Apple with TLG. Apple is no longer a monopoly whereas TLG still is in terms of the toy bricks market. 

    The first few years of the iphone we saw lots of copycats appearing with Apple launching lawsuits left and right. Thank god that didn't stop the advancement of technological innovations and now we have products from other companies that have better features and at cheaper prices, can't imagine what the world would be like if Apple was able to stop all copycats and remain a monopoly till today, l'd imagine the Apple tax would be astronomical, not that it isn't now (with competitors no less). 

    The Lego tax situation is exactly same as the Apple tax. Even the fan boy behaviours are the same, countless times I've seen and heard people saying "I would never buy a product just because it is not Apple", and blindly disregard logical thinkings of features and price point benefits. A fan boy is a fan boy after all, regardless of which company they worship. 

    No one doubted the efforts of innovators, engineers and designers that throughout the years come out with ideas and brilliantly designed products as they have every right to be monetarily compensated, but when the company is making billions of dollars out of those products you had to wonder how much they really overcharged on the products and when will the monopoly ends. It's a good thing there is a time limit for copyright holders, else they would be earning billions or even trillions till eternity.

    And you know what? The sad truth out of all these is that most if not all of the money are pocketed by the company's top executives with close to nothing left for the actual designers, except the basic salary. 
    What "brilliantly designed products" or "innovative technology" has LEPIN put forth? 
    Er...  the paragraph is about companies like Apple and TLG that earn billions of dollars, how in the world could you think I'm referring to Lepin? 

    And the 3 likes to your post? I can only face palm...
    Your facepalm made me double face palm...  ; )

    You claim that Apple once "was a monopoly", to my knowledge Apple never had a monopoly as a consumer electronics company. Not even in 1976 when they released their first 'PC' the 'Apple 2', nor with the advent of the smartphone. Nonetheless you make an analogy between Apple and other consumer electronic brands (manufacturing smartphones/laptops etc.) AND TLG: 'creator' of the studded interlocking construction toy system (Lego system), and its competitor brands that manufacture patent free Lego compatible brick system toys too (as well as those violating current patents which have not expired; as well as IP infringement), thereby making your second claim that TLG supposedly has a monopoly also invalid. However since this thread is about Lego's fight against Chinese counterfeiters such as Lepin that is also in an unfair manner competing against TLG, as well as undermining the latter by flooding the global market (After all Alibaba dwarf's Amazon) with fake, imitation, 1on1 directly copied counterfeited Lego sets, how do you not see the irony/sarcasm of Pitfall69's remark regarding 'brilliantly designed products and innovative technology' on Lepin's part!?!

    Apple is listed at the NASDAQ, so anybody with shares will be very happy with Apple's marketing strategies, product development, the perceived quality of their products, and the company's profit maximization. TLG is privately owned. Whether or not we as consumers ought to be happy with the retail prices of Lego, and Lepin's counterfeiting are two separate issues. Having said that I believe there is a correlation, in that if Lego would be more affordable/cheaper everywhere, and more widely available on the Asian markets, the counterfeiters would not be as prolific as they now are.

    An argument I also made here:
    http://brickset.com/article/23648/the-lego-group-takes-action-against-clone-brand-lepin#comments

    Which is important if TLG want to remain market leader, and beneficial for all (A)FOL's too when they make their sets not more expensive than they already are, but rather the opposite: less expensive.
     
    ---------

    Plus it annoys a lot of consumers that the same set e.g.: #75152 (which CapnRex101 just reviewed) costs $29,99 in the USA, £29,99 in the UK, but €44,99 in NL/B/Lux, €39,99 in some other European countries D/FR, which all have the same VAT rates, and very similar general income rates and living standards. Especially given the fact that many of those sets are made in the EU, and that 1 Euro is worth $1,12 .  Why isn't that set priced at €29,99 or maybe even less expensive than that. Brand loyalty for many people is a fading concept, general attitudes of the public change, especially with people being online everyday, a global market and internet shopping having become an everyday thing. If TLG does not get this it will, I believe, seriously undermine them in the near future.

    I have never set foot on a Comiccon event or something similar. From what I understand watching clips, and reading this forum, and articles and entries elsewhere, at these event many elaborately printed imitation Lego minifigures are being sold openly. That again indicates one thing, many people want there favourite superhero or SW character in minifigure shape, if Lego does not make it, many apparently don't mind buying bootleg figs.
    Maybe it started with bootleg minifigs, now entire SSD and modular sets are sold, which people who have bought them, say are improving in quality (clutch power and colour etc.).
    TLG better step up their game!
    dougtspharmjod
  • RecceRecce Tiny Little Red DotMember Posts: 923
    edited September 2016
    TheBigLegoski said:

    Your facepalm made me double face palm...  ; )

    You claim that Apple once "was a monopoly", to my knowledge Apple never had a monopoly as a consumer electronics company. Not even in 1976 when they released their first 'PC' the 'Apple 2', nor with the advent of the smartphone. Nonetheless you make an analogy between Apple and other consumer electronic brands (manufacturing smartphones/laptops etc.) AND TLG: 'creator' of the studded interlocking construction toy system (Lego system), and its competitor brands that manufacture patent free Lego compatible brick system toys too (as well as those violating current patents which have not expired; as well as IP infringement), thereby making your second claim that TLG supposedly has a monopoly also invalid. However since this thread is about Lego's fight against Chinese counterfeiters such as Lepin that is also in an unfair manner competing against TLG, as well as undermining the latter by flooding the global market (After all Alibaba dwarf's Amazon) with fake, imitation, 1on1 directly copied counterfeited Lego sets, how do you not see the irony/sarcasm of Pitfall69's remark regarding 'brilliantly designed products and innovative technology' on Lepin's part!?!

    Apple is listed at the NASDAQ, so anybody with shares will be very happy with Apple's marketing strategies, product development, the perceived quality of their products, and the company's profit maximization. TLG is privately owned. Whether or not we as consumers ought to be happy with the retail prices of Lego, and Lepin's counterfeiting are two separate issues. Having said that I believe there is a correlation, in that if Lego would be more affordable/cheaper everywhere, and more widely available on the Asian markets, the counterfeiters would not be as prolific as they now are.

    An argument I also made here:
    http://brickset.com/article/23648/the-lego-group-takes-action-against-clone-brand-lepin#comments

    Which is important if TLG want to remain market leader, and beneficial for all (A)FOL's too when they make their sets not more expensive than they already are, but rather the opposite: less expensive.
     
    ---------

    Plus it annoys a lot of consumers that the same set e.g.: #75152 (which CapnRex101 just reviewed) costs $29,99 in the USA, £29,99 in the UK, but €44,99 in NL/B/Lux, €39,99 in some other European countries D/FR, which all have the same VAT rates, and very similar general income rates and living standards. Especially given the fact that many of those sets are made in the EU, and that 1 Euro is worth $1,12 .  Why isn't that set priced at €29,99 or maybe even less expensive than that. Brand loyalty for many people is a fading concept, general attitudes of the public change, especially with people being online everyday, a global market and internet shopping having become an everyday thing. If TLG does not get this it will, I believe, seriously undermine them in the near future.

    I have never set foot on a Comiccon event or something similar. From what I understand watching clips, and reading this forum, and articles and entries elsewhere, at these event many elaborately printed imitation Lego minifigures are being sold openly. That again indicates one thing, many people want there favourite superhero or SW character in minifigure shape, if Lego does not make it, many apparently don't mind buying bootleg figs.
    Maybe it started with bootleg minifigs, now entire SSD and modular sets are sold, which people who have bought them, say are improving in quality (clutch power and colour etc.).
    TLG better step up their game!
    Your face palm I can accept since you bring out valid points to my argument. :)

    You're seriously in denial if you think TLG is not in a monopoly position with regards to interlocking bricks toys, what is the market share of the nearest competitor again? There is no "brilliantly designed products and innovative technology" from Lepin, just copycats with slight modifications.

    Indeed, price point could be the biggest downfall of TLG. They priced it high because they believe the market can absorb it but obviously they did not anticipate copycat brands such as Lepin to come in and mess up the market (at least in China). Now people start to wonder what exactly is the total cost of a Lego set? And how much they markup from the R&D, BOM, operating, marketing, packaging, after sales support etc, to arrive at the final RRP. Of course the fact that the same product having a huge price difference across geographic regions also means they try to price it as high as possibly can, regardless of the actual cost needed to produce it.

    With more copycats coming out, one might think that TLG would try to lower their product prices to compete, but on the contrary, I believe they will instead INCREASE the price. They have to give comsumers the impression that their product is of premium branding, higher quality, better made and better supported, and having a high price point is one of the strategies that companies take to enforce that impression, not necessarily to profit more, though obviously it wouldn't hurt at all.
    dougts
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,446
    Recce said:
    Pitfall69 said:
    Recce said:
    It's interesting to compare Apple with TLG. Apple is no longer a monopoly whereas TLG still is in terms of the toy bricks market. 

    The first few years of the iphone we saw lots of copycats appearing with Apple launching lawsuits left and right. Thank god that didn't stop the advancement of technological innovations and now we have products from other companies that have better features and at cheaper prices, can't imagine what the world would be like if Apple was able to stop all copycats and remain a monopoly till today, l'd imagine the Apple tax would be astronomical, not that it isn't now (with competitors no less). 

    The Lego tax situation is exactly same as the Apple tax. Even the fan boy behaviours are the same, countless times I've seen and heard people saying "I would never buy a product just because it is not Apple", and blindly disregard logical thinkings of features and price point benefits. A fan boy is a fan boy after all, regardless of which company they worship. 

    No one doubted the efforts of innovators, engineers and designers that throughout the years come out with ideas and brilliantly designed products as they have every right to be monetarily compensated, but when the company is making billions of dollars out of those products you had to wonder how much they really overcharged on the products and when will the monopoly ends. It's a good thing there is a time limit for copyright holders, else they would be earning billions or even trillions till eternity.

    And you know what? The sad truth out of all these is that most if not all of the money are pocketed by the company's top executives with close to nothing left for the actual designers, except the basic salary. 
    What "brilliantly designed products" or "innovative technology" has LEPIN put forth? 
    Er...  the paragraph is about companies like Apple and TLG that earn billions of dollars, how in the world could you think I'm referring to Lepin? 

    And the 3 likes to your post? I can only face palm...
    You compared Apple with TLG and then went on to say that you "thank god" that all the lawsuits by Apple didn't stop the "advancement of innovative technology", so I asked you what "innovative technology" has LEPIN produced? You did not have to mention LEPIN by name for us to gather what point you were trying to make. You continue by comparing the "Apple Tax" and "LEGO tax". Other than a "cheaper product" what "brilliantly designed products with "better features" have LEPIN come out with? 
    Sven_F
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,446
    Recce said:


    And you know what? The sad truth out of all these is that most if not all of the money are pocketed by the company's top executives with close to nothing left for the actual designers, except the basic salary. 
    I do not know what line of work you are in, but that is how the "world" works. When I was in Structural Engineering field, I worked for a Pulp and Paper manufacturer; in the 6-7 years I was there, I personally came up with a lot of innovative ideas, but never got specifically paid for them, nor do many people. Like at many companies, I had to sign disclosure agreements saying I wouldn't take the companies "secrets" to another company. I had to do the same thing when I worked in aerospace and the automotive industry. 
  • AustinPowersAustinPowers GermanyMember Posts: 278
    TheBigLegoski said:
    Plus it annoys a lot of consumers that the same set e.g.: #75152 (which CapnRex101 just reviewed) costs $29,99 in the USA, £29,99 in the UK, but €44,99 in NL/B/Lux, €39,99 in some other European countries D/FR, which all have the same VAT rates, and very similar general income rates and living standards. Especially given the fact that many of those sets are made in the EU, and that 1 Euro is worth $1,12 .  Why isn't that set priced at €29,99 or maybe even less expensive than that. Brand loyalty for many people is a fading concept, general attitudes of the public change, especially with people being online everyday, a global market and internet shopping having become an everyday thing. If TLG does not get this it will, I believe, seriously undermine them in the near future.
    THAT is something TLG could do to help fight against Chinese counterfeiters. Fair pricing. The argument has been discussed already, but it can't be repeated often enough: if the rest of the world wouldn't have to pay a surcharge for Lego in order to allow Lego products in the US to be sold much cheaper, a lot of people might think twice about buying counterfeit products like Lepin, Decool and others.
    TheBigLegoski
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,446
    AustinPowers said:
    TheBigLegoski said:
    Plus it annoys a lot of consumers that the same set e.g.: #75152 (which CapnRex101 just reviewed) costs $29,99 in the USA, £29,99 in the UK, but €44,99 in NL/B/Lux, €39,99 in some other European countries D/FR, which all have the same VAT rates, and very similar general income rates and living standards. Especially given the fact that many of those sets are made in the EU, and that 1 Euro is worth $1,12 .  Why isn't that set priced at €29,99 or maybe even less expensive than that. Brand loyalty for many people is a fading concept, general attitudes of the public change, especially with people being online everyday, a global market and internet shopping having become an everyday thing. If TLG does not get this it will, I believe, seriously undermine them in the near future.
    THAT is something TLG could do to help fight against Chinese counterfeiters. Fair pricing. The argument has been discussed already, but it can't be repeated often enough: if the rest of the world wouldn't have to pay a surcharge for Lego in order to allow Lego products in the US to be sold much cheaper, a lot of people might think twice about buying counterfeit products like Lepin, Decool and others.
    I do understand TLG's pricing bothers people, but as I pointed out before that US pricing doesn't include tax. I cannot say the same for other countries. Also, LEPIN does not have the overhead that TLG does and therefore can offer their product for cheaper. LEPIN is also not paying Disney or any other company to create licenced products. I do not even want to imagine how their manufacturing process is and how they trwat their workers. Speaking of Apple, this has been a HUGE issue for them in the past. If you are "paying" your workers scraps, you can also lower costs.
    catwranglerdougtsSprinkleOtter
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,313
    edited September 2016
    AustinPowers said:
    THAT is something TLG could do to help fight against Chinese counterfeiters. Fair pricing. The argument has been discussed already, but it can't be repeated often enough: if the rest of the world wouldn't have to pay a surcharge for Lego in order to allow Lego products in the US to be sold much cheaper, a lot of people might think twice about buying counterfeit products like Lepin, Decool and others.
    What is "fair" pricing? Do you mean equal? As it costs more to do business in some countries than others. There is then the problem that if they cannot produce enough stock to fulfill the world supply, but need to have equal pricing in all countries where they well, then they could stop selling in some countries. They might make a profit in those countries, but more profit in other countries, so they cut supply.  Whereas if they charge more in countries where it costs them more to do business (regulations, translations, storage / transport, ...) then they maintain a presence.

    Although the headline is that lego is cheaper in the US, it is not always the case (tax, frequency of sales). And even when it is it is still understandable when you consider how many regulations some smaller countries have (so they have less population, and less lego buyers to spread those costs over).
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited September 2016
    ^ and ^^ Consistency would be a good start. Been like this for ages though, I remember in 2012 #6873 Spider-Man's Doc Ock Ambush was $30, £35 and E40 but (as an example) #3061 City Park Cafe was $35, £30 and E30.

    Its TLGs product so they can set whatever price they want but it suggests a degree of unfairness (impact due to VAT and cost of doing business would be the same for all sets) and that the price is purely what they perceive the market will withstand (which is of course fine too, but don't be surprised if people start to get pissed off about it).
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    It would be interesting to know the scale of LEPIN, a quick look at Cafe Corner sales on ebay shows 12 in September (compared to 4 LEGO CC sales) but as most of the sales will be through AliExpress god knows what the real numbers are.
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,549
    #21125 The Jungle Treehouse is especially egregious, for both UK and EU:

    USA: $69.99, UK: £74.99, EU: 89.99€

    Compared to #21124 The End Portal:

    USA: $59.99, UK: £49.99, EU: 59.99€
    Muftak1
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,313
    cheshirecat said:

    Its TLGs product so they can set whatever price they want but it suggests a degree of unfairness (impact due to VAT and cost of doing business would be the same for all sets) and that the price is purely what they perceive the market will withstand (which is of course fine too, but don't be surprised if people start to get pissed off about it).
    Given how much product sells from a lego store, even though the same thing is probably cheaper from a supermarket or another store within a mile, I doubt many (normal) people price check even locally, let alone globally.
    stluxcheshirecatcatwrangler
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited September 2016
    Can't argue with that, it's only because of brickset I'm aware, although I might have messed around with shop at home as well.

    Although the point still stands,  the pricing make me feel less enamoured with LEGO and shows that the pricing isn't anything other than market driven, even if most customers aren't aware of it.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,313
    Yeah, I'm sure that's right. I bought a camera lens last week. I checked online and local prices before buying (and bought online), but I didn't check US prices.

    I did just check them out of curiosity. The ratio of UK to US prices across their range is not constant. Probably not as much variation as lego's prices. But still, not constant. No doubt there is a forum somewhere discussing it...
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    And to be clear I don't mind that it's priced for what the market can take, most things are but let's not pretend that the contribution of oil price fluctuations, parts or designer salaries are anything more than a small fraction of the cost of a lego set. 
    JudgeChuckpharmjod
  • danstraindepotdanstraindepot Member Posts: 172
    Lepin is a parasite.  Benefiting at the expense of LEGO.

    There are obviously some smart people working for Lepin, or their quality would not be nearly as good, and their dodging of legal issues as proficient.  But to give them any type of kudos for innovation is ridiculous. 

    I appreciate some of the points made about not understanding cultures, being naive thinking our way is the 'only' way, that does make sense.  But I cannot see how any could be applauding what Lepin is doing here.

    I think if I was LEGO I'd just start producing Lepin sets, and fill them with trash parts, and flood the market with absolute garbage under the Lepin name.  How can Lepin complain?  Perhaps this would trash their growing reputation.
    SumoLegoFireheartSven_F
  • danstraindepotdanstraindepot Member Posts: 172
    I say that 'tongue in cheek' of course.  It really is not the way I would actually choose to do business.
  • ericbericb Member Posts: 97
    I'm surprised at how many people feel the need for LEGO to lower their prices.  They produce great products, have excellent customer service, and successfully cater to a diverse fan base.  They're the best at what they do.  All these factor into pricing.  People/companies with those credentials usually don't sell themselves short.
  • dspigeldspigel Newport NewsMember Posts: 461
    So here is a perfect example why Lego will always have a problem with counterfeits. First off I like to troll my coworkers. I can't seem to help it. So they thought they'd return the favor. My coworkers are aware of my fondness of Lego. So they bought a "Lego" bridge (since trolls live under bridges) to display on my desk. I wasn't aware they were going to do this.

    So I came in this morning and saw it. First thing I noticed it wasn't a Lego set. It was some sort of knock off. I laughed and asked why they didn't get the official Lego one? They stated it was $240 and the fake was $35 and it's the same thing. It just shows that individuals that don't care about Lego won't go and pay extra when you can get the same thing at a fraction of the official cost.

    Additionally it isn't even a Lepin product. It's a Wange. :) 
    dougtsTheBigLegoskiTheMaker37
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    it's also not at all similar to the LEGO product, so there is no IP/design infringement here.  it looks awful to be sure, but doesn't appear they are doing anything wrong at all.
    cheshirecatSprinkleOtterPitfall69
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    danstraindepot said:

    I appreciate some of the points made about not understanding cultures, being naive thinking our way is the 'only' way, that does make sense.  But I cannot see how any could be applauding what Lepin is doing here.
    That's very easy to say if you're in the wealthiest 10% or whatever. It's rather different if you are not.

    You can argue about the rights and wrongs, about morals, about stealing ideas, about LEGO sets being a luxury item or about countless other aspects of the situation, but you're not going to change the view of those people for whom LEPIN make something available which would otherwise not be. They will applaud LEPIN. You don't have to agree with any of the arguments about what LEPIN do, but it is just simple logic as to why there are people that appreciate them.

    We tend to celebrate companies that makes an item, previously only available to the rich, available to the common man or the man on the street. Is it so hard to understand that when it's somebody else's street?
    TheBigLegoskipharmjodmaaaaaaa
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    dspigel said:

    So I came in this morning and saw it. First thing I noticed it wasn't a Lego set. It was some sort of knock off.
    Are you sure about that?

    You might be right, but you have to be very careful when throwing mud at Wange, because some of their sets pre-date the LEGO equivalent by a long way. Then, whose would be the knock off?
  • CaptainPirateManCaptainPirateMan MichiganMember Posts: 353
    dspigel said:
    So here is a perfect example why Lego will always have a problem with counterfeits. First off I like to troll my coworkers. I can't seem to help it. So they thought they'd return the favor. My coworkers are aware of my fondness of Lego. So they bought a "Lego" bridge (since trolls live under bridges) to display on my desk. I wasn't aware they were going to do this.

    So I came in this morning and saw it. First thing I noticed it wasn't a Lego set. It was some sort of knock off. I laughed and asked why they didn't get the official Lego one? They stated it was $240 and the fake was $35 and it's the same thing. It just shows that individuals that don't care about Lego won't go and pay extra when you can get the same thing at a fraction of the official cost.

    Additionally it isn't even a Lepin product. It's a Wange. :) 
    Did you put it together? I have always been curious if what those sets are like. Is it smaller than the Lego version, etc. 
  • dspigeldspigel Newport NewsMember Posts: 461
    edited September 2016
     
    I did not build it. But, it is built on my desk this morning. It really doesn't look bad. I played a minifig on it for scale.

    Edit: so doing this on my phone was a pain and I messed it all up. However the photo is above in a quote for some reason.
    catwrangler
  • MaffyDMaffyD West YorkshireMember Posts: 3,241
    edited September 2016
    ^ Too many. Please don't start! No monkey business! :-)
    SprinkleOtterPitfall69
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,758
    MaffyD said:
    ^ Too many. Please don't start! No monkey business! :-)
     I fear you've started us down a slippery slope...
    Pitfall69TheMaker37
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    Well Lepin has made an error. I have actually seen other reviews with the same issue so was kinda expecting it haha. Have contacted them for replacements, lets see how the customer service is
  • CaptainPirateManCaptainPirateMan MichiganMember Posts: 353
    dspigel said:
     
    I did not build it. But, it is built on my desk this morning. It really doesn't look bad. I played a minifig on it for scale.

    Edit: so doing this on my phone was a pain and I messed it all up. However the photo is above in a quote for some reason.
    Clearly smaller than the Lego version. Thanks for the pic, I've always been curious about these sets. How are the bricks?
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,549
    Lunchietey said:
    Well Lepin has made an error. I have actually seen other reviews with the same issue so was kinda expecting it haha. Have contacted them for replacements, lets see how the customer service is
    Isn't it strange how those plates just don't "look right" without the Lego logo... They look far too smooth...
    SprinkleOtterPitfall69plasmodiumcatwranglerlordzarak
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    edited September 2016
    Whoops. My mistake. No Lepin haven't made an error. I was caught by the light grey/dark grey again haha and I have all the pieces I need. Will just need to 'hide' 2 dark grey angled plates and swap for 2 light grey. 

    So yeah, seems as though all parts are present with only 15 pages to go.

    Yeah you do notice the lack of lego printing on the studs at first but your brain just ignores it as time goes on. Apart from tiny niggles (and me being a dumba$$) it has been a great build and stupidly good for the money!
  • nhyonenhyone Member Posts: 145
    CaptainPirateMan said:
    Clearly smaller than the Lego version. Thanks for the pic, I've always been curious about these sets. How are the bricks?
    The Wange version is smaller, but it is by no means small!

    Wange has a line of 11 large-ish architectural buildings, 8011 to 8021. The TB is 8013. They are not as cheap as you might expect (around US$23 each) -- well, someone has to pay for the design.

    Wange's Building series is one the reasons I started to wonder why TLG can't do the same: have a line-up of architectural buildings.
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    edited September 2016
    All done. No missing bits. Minifigs are actually better than reviews led me to believe. In pic, left figure is Lepin, Bespin guard is genuine.
    And gratuitous finished pic minus lego repro UCS label I've ordered from ebay that doesn't say "Star Weiners" haha

    Hmm pics not loading... will try again soon 
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,446
    edited September 2016
    "Star Weiners"? Pics not loading? Sounds like your browser has some sort of disfunction. You better toss some "Viagra" at it ;)
    SprinkleOtter
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,446
    SumoLego said:
    ^ How many 'banana and wange' jokes can we possibly make?

    8.jpg 195.5K
    SumoLego
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,758
    Pitfall69 said:
    "Star Weiners"? Pics not loading? Sounds like your browser has some sort of disfunction. You better toss some "Viagra" at it ;)
    Throw in some Cialis, too. Take that "lasting longer than four hours" thing as a challenge. ;)
    Pitfall69SumoLego
  • LunchieteyLunchietey Australia Member Posts: 24
    edited September 2016
    [IMG]http://i1314.photobucket.com/albums/t576/LanceGreenaway80/Mobile Uploads/20160928_093121_zpsqbdd23vd.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

    Seems this forum uses different image tags. Hang on haha
  • Johnyk668Johnyk668 Melbourne, Australia Member Posts: 73
    On a completely off topic question @Lunchietey you do you happwn to drive a Toyota?
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