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10184 Town Plan, not a city set.
playwell
Member Posts: 2,333
Hi at the moment brickset has 10184 Town Plan as a city set but I don't think it should be. I can see why some would but it does not have city on the box or any similarities with city boxes. It is also a different era from the present day city sets. So the question is what category should it come under?
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Comments
It was in the same sort of box as the modulars, and appeared in the same sections of the web site as they did (at least, it did in January 2009) - Exclusives and Town Essentials (a sub-category of City), but not Creator. That's presumably why Brickset lists it that way.
Things like the Taj Mahal and the Volkswagen Beetle were under Exclusives and Creator, but they were the only large sets in Creator.
I think it makes a lot more sense to have Town Plan with the Taj Mahal and Beetle because of the box type and the fact its more of a one off set. A little oddly these sets are not under creator but advanced models, maybe advanced models should be changed to creator expert.
Town Hall was, at least originally, not labelled with a theme.
By 2010, the modulars were tagged as being both City / Town Essentials and Creator on the web site. I don't think Town Plan got that far.
What do you mean by "box type"? If you mean the design with the background of blue studs, then the modulars were like that too when they classified as Town Essentials, but not Creator.
If you want to classify sets, don't look to TLG because they change their minds! If you're not using their classification, then you can do whatever you want. You can spend forever with old catalogues and the Wayback Machine and not be any the wiser about what to do.
^ Yeah by box type I meant the box art and I am looking at how brickset classify sets. At the moment 10184 Town Plan is the only set in the city theme (on brickset) that does not have city on the box. I think it would be better in advanced models. I also think advanced models should have a name change to creator expert because as you have said in the past the boxes have had no theme on the box but these same type of sets now are labelled as creator expert.
If it's confusing now, it'll be even more confusing in ten years when TLG have changed their minds again. They're likely to wreck any system you invent even if it works now.
Who buys this set, why, and what for?
I think people buy this because they are into the city theme: trains, modulars, public transportation sets, fire stations, police-stations, harbour sets, forest police, volcano & (ant-)arctic explorers, are all full blown city sets, as I see them.
This set has a nice art-deco architecture style cinema, a service station, and a town hall. Too me that has CITY written all over it, even if TLG did not stick that label onto the box.
Then again maybe I am still kind of looking at a lot of Lego stuff the way I did back as a kid. It is either medieval, city/town, space, full blown scifi, pirates, or any of the licensed themes, which in some cases are just regular themed sets, but with fleshy coloured minifigs (e.g.: POTC) modelled after a movie franchise.
The modular firestation, well at least the car that is included in the set, as well as those firefighter helmets, also looks very antiquated. Sort of pre WW2 or mid 20th century. To me it is just one of the modulars, and a city set.
Yeah basically I am trying to work out if 10184 Town Plan is listed correctly in the brickset database, if not I will get it changed.
I actually think its easier to categories sets now than in the past as everything is branded. Look at 10214 Tower Bridge it used to have very little on the box but the newer box shows it is a creator expert set.
I do not own Market street, so I do not know how advanced the building techniques of that set are, so whether or not the label 'creator' or 'expert' can or should be applied, I cannot tell. What I, and most other people who know just a little bit about Lego sets, do know is; that it falls into that category of big city type buildings, with a certain amount and quality of detail, and stackable modular floors, which may or may not be fitted with a fully furnished minifigure scale interior.
Too me it made more sense having it listed as a 'Pirate' theme set, and being listed with my other 'Pirate' theme sets, which are immediately followed by all my 'Pirates of the Caribbean' sets. That way all sets (and ships from the same 'historic' time period and 'place'; granted the seven seas are all over the place) are bundled. You can argue that it is not a pirate ship, because it is the ship of the adversaries of the pirates, namely 'the Imperials', but so is e.g. #6462 (the set called: soldier's fort) which is also labelled a pirate set. And like the Imperial Flag ship, it only contains one pirate: Captain Brickbeard, who in both sets is the outlaw. The crafty mischievous hero/criminal or escaping prisoner of the Imperials. Actually the IFS contains a second minifig, which is labelled a 'pirate', which I always just thought of as the ships cook.
Too me whether or not a set is labelled an 'advanced model' is secondary to the 'theme/historical time period' of a particular set. And I suppose whether or not TLG sold that particular set only as D2C (direct to customer) from their Legoshop@home website or via telephone is even tertiary.
Of course this is just my personal preference, and I do not know how many other people hold a similar view? Whether the set being tagged as an 'advanced model' bears more weight than the theme it is part of, I think is debatable. Plus it merits another question: what constitutes an 'advanced' model? This is also debatable. The building techniques of the IFS are not much more advanced than that of e.g. the POTC Queen Anne's Revenge. The hull of the IFS contrary to the QAR of course is enclosed, instead of being an open deck, and counts more parts, as is the admiral's cabin, though I would not claim it is really more difficult to build. Or for that matter whether it is as advanced a the build as e.g. numerous Star Wars ships/ vehicles such as the AT-AT, or many other sets, which do not bear that tag, but do encompass quite a few 'technic' parts, SNOT techniques, technic mechanisms etc. Granted, I remember, when I build the compact Winter Village Toy Shop, I was pleasantly surprised at the design, attention to detail, and the integrated building techniques of just a 'little house'. The IFS was fun to build, but mostly a very long build, because the bags of the set are not numbered, and it contains a lot of parts, which just like the Medieval Market Village need to be sorted first before you can commence building the set, without having to look for ages all the time for the parts needed along the way. But that in it self does not make it an advanced build. I think the reason why TLG has put a higher age (14+) on the packaging of the IFS is, that first and foremost many younger children may grow weary of a set with so many parts, and no numbered bags.
This is why I Personally preferred the way it was before; with the IFS set happily anchored, docked and towering over all the other pirate theme sets here on Brickset.
Or something like that.
I think it should appear alongside the D2C Creator sets, and not as an also-rand Pirates set.
So can we take it further and changed the theme to Creator Expert?
Are all Advanced Models Creator Expert sets?
Since 2013 all the sets in this theme have been labelled Creator Expert these include the subthemes:
Modular Buildings
Landmark Buildings
Fairground
Winter Village
Vehicles
Trains
Maersk Line
We can also see from the new Tower Bridge box that older sets can also be part of this Creator Expert line and that Lego just didn't have a name for it before 2013 but the line has existed for some time. In fact there have only been 4 changes to the box art and all can be link together through sets.
Clouds 2000-2002 (linked through 2 Sopwith Camel sets)
Plain Blue 2003-2004 (linked through Maersk sets)
Studs 2006-2012 (many links including Tower Bridge with two different boxes)
Creator Expert 2013 ongoing
So isn't it time brickset gave Creator Expert its own theme rather than just a tag?
^ Good point
10173 Holiday Train has now been added to Advanced Models for the same reasons as the other sets.
But should its subtheme be Trains or Winter Village?
Are there any other sets that should be in Advanced Models/Creator Expert ?
^ Some people who until now had a complete Winter Village collection won't be happy :)
But its the same as 10187 Volkswagen Beetle being in the Vehicles subtheme and 10196 Grand Carousel being in the Fairground subtheme, you could say there is an odd one out in all 3.
Frankly, I wouldn't include the original holiday train in the WV collection, or the Carousel in the Fairground collection.
There is a palatable difference between those earlier offerings and the more recent connected sets.
But if we are talking about tags - if it's a train, it should have the train tag. No matter the theme or quality of the build. Brickset is a database - I'd rather have more relevant information than less when I do a search.