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Anyone else miss LoTR...

2

Comments

  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,431
    ^I completely understand this criticism but I think if you look beyond the box there's a good start for a lot of fantasy stuff. And they have included some of the catapult type play features often included in castle themes.

    Take the Treetop Hideaway - change the leaves to green, add a couple of catapults/flick fire crossbows, replace the seating colours and change the mini dolls for forestmen minifigs and you've got something that could go alongside a general castle set. 

    Personally I like the funky leaf colours and the Dragons despite the cutesy manga like eyes- I just hope the theme continues the way it has getting more adventurous and further away from Friends (with magic)
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,472
    @Shib, I get your point, but I think you'd need to replace so much, that it would be pointless to buy the set in the first place. You'd probably do better to buy #31053 Treehouse Adventures and MOC off that instead.
    They're good parts packs, in moderation though, for when you do need an odd colour or two for a fantasy MOC...
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,431
    I suppose it's a bit of a numbers game with stuff like the leaves, they don't bother me and are often the biggest section of color that looks off. For me I think making the treehouse adventures creator set into something fantasy/castle based would be more hassle than using the elves set as a starting point.
     
    There are some sets in the theme that have been fantastic- Naida's Boat is probably one of my favourite sets, it's brilliantly designed, minimal bright out of place colours. I'm happy I got a couple of them very cheap- hoping to make a little fleet of them perhaps with some in different colours at some point.

    Ultimately I would prefer a new fully invested Fantasy era Castle theme, but I'm happy enough to have Elves as a crutch in the mean time. While Nexo Knights and Elves are running I can't see anything else Castle related being made without it being a licenced theme.
    catwrangler
  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,978
    ^Agreed. Naida's ship is brilliant in every facet. Many other great sets in the Elves line which seem to go underrated.
    richoklatu003
  • CaptainPirateManCaptainPirateMan MichiganMember Posts: 347
    This is actually the thread that FINALLY got me to sign up here. Yes, I very much miss LOTR and Hobbit sets. Even though I do consider LOTR to be superior to Hobbit in terms of sets, Hobbit did provide Bag End (which is one of the 2 or 3 best sets of the entire franchise imo), and both Lake Town sets are solid as well. Not to mention Smaug is magnificiant, even though the set he came in was lackluster. 

    But overall, I miss LOTR, POTC, Pirates, and Castle. I don't spend time or money on the Elves or any other minidolls sets, they just don't do it for me. Even though I know you can switch out the figures, I haven't seen anything that makes me think "I like that." 

    So for me, I am spending my time and energy on Modulars and City, which is good. I do really like them, but they are not my first love. They are more what I am settling for at the moment.
    MasterBeefyrichocatwrangler
  • Brinstar85Brinstar85 Member Posts: 42
    I do miss the LOTR sets. What frustrates me the most is that the theme was under-developed and Lego could have done so much more. I remember being really impressed with the first wave of sets (especially Helm's Deep) but the second wave failed to live up to expectations. I'm sure it's been said many times but I think it is a real shame that Lego didn't release any Mordor sets or any battle packs for that matter. I remember having to spend a small fortune on 9471 Uruk Hai Army's just to put together a small army of Rohan soldiers.
    richoMasterBeefy
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 725
    edited September 2016
    @stlux asked if there was a LDD file for Lisqr's Minas Tirith.  I have developed a LDD for the basic structure that I can share.  Is there a good place where it can be uploaded?
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 725
  • msandersmsanders Member Posts: 1,006
    I do miss the LOTR. I think that the Hobbit films prevented Lego from further developing the LOTR sets. However, I`m not convinced that kids liked these sets. I had this discussion with my wife once. At the age that kids watch these films, are they massively into Lego? Lets not forget that they are over 2 hours long.... Also, its pretty gruesome in places so certainly children between 4-8 won`t be watching it (?). Compare this to the other themes (around at the time, I think), Ninjago, Chima, City, Friends, Superheroes (there are lots of cartoons young children can watch). I just have this feeling that LOTR wouldn`t have been massively popular with the majority of kids - I could be wrong.

    I have all the sets but I`m not sure when I`ll be getting them out to build and play with. My (4yr old) son can easily play with Ninjago, Nexo knights, batman, superheroes etc, because there is material that he can identify with in comics and cartoons. (Of course, you don`t always need this for imaginative play but we`re talking about the popularity of the LOTR sets). 

    I love the Hobbit book and I think it was originally written for kids. However, the films are way too long and gruesome in places, so I`m not sure what age kids will watch the films and buy the Lego. I think I picked up most (if not all) of the LOTR/Hobbit sets at 50% (how times have changed) so I`m happy but I do wish that there was more focus on LOTR and not the Hobbit. 
    BumblepantsLostInTranslationYodaliciousSumoLegoklatu003catwranglerDontcopythatfloppy
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    I watched all three extended editions of the films last week, on consecutive evenings. They run to about 3.5, 3.5 and 4 hours respectively.

    Also, don't forget that there was plenty of LOTR lego building going on before lego made any LOTR sets. There will be plenty afterwards too. It is a shame we are missing official versions of a few key characters (Witch King and Sauron are probably the main ones) or parts with specific symbols (Gondor torsos and shields, helmets), but that just means people will do what they did before. Come up with either purist or non-purist ways of getting what they want.

    As to sets, most MOCs are better than the official sets anyway.
    LostInTranslationdougtsMasterBeefy
  • LostInTranslationLostInTranslation UKMember Posts: 5,594
    There are still Lotr sets on the shelf in the Toymaster near my work! 
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,472
    There are still Lotr sets on the shelf in the Toymaster near my work! 
    Where are you and what do they have?
  • LostInTranslationLostInTranslation UKMember Posts: 5,594
    Gerrards Cross.  Think they had Weathertop,  Council of Elrond,  The Black Gate and the Pirate/ghost ship last time I was in (a month or so ago). All about 10% above RRP. 
  • ecmo47ecmo47 North CarolinaMember Posts: 2,101
    Found a Black Gate and a stack of Wizards Duel at an off the beaten path TRU here in the US
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    Gerrards Cross.  Think they had Weathertop,  Council of Elrond,  The Black Gate and the Pirate/ghost ship last time I was in (a month or so ago). All about 10% above RRP. 
    Based on BL prices for UK, those prices are about right for those sets.

    I had a look back at what they once were. At one stage, Weathertops were £12 for a set (Aug 2013).
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,472
    CCC said:
    Gerrards Cross.  Think they had Weathertop,  Council of Elrond,  The Black Gate and the Pirate/ghost ship last time I was in (a month or so ago). All about 10% above RRP. 
    Based on BL prices for UK, those prices are about right for those sets.

    I had a look back at what they once were. At one stage, Weathertops were £12 for a set (Aug 2013).
    I think I'm going to cry...
  • Legopassion8Legopassion8 North CarolinaMember Posts: 1,181
    I don't miss the theme, I just hate the Balrog or that Ring wraiths pet dragon never made it into a set.  
    pharmjod
  • A.BrickovskyA.Brickovsky PolandMember Posts: 56
    The Disney Castle and even Ragana's Castle are great offerings, but yeah... no taste of man flesh. 
  • JudgeChuckJudgeChuck UKMember Posts: 1,472
    I don't miss the theme, I just hate the Balrog or that Ring wraiths pet dragon never made it into a set.  
    Definitely... A "Bridge of Khazad-dûm" set with the Balrog, Gandalf and perhaps a couple of orcs would have been a fantastic set.

    I've seen a few good MOCs of this scene, but I'm not sure anyone has captured the Balrog perfectly. Having said that, Tolkien aficionados still can't agree on whether the Balrog had wings or not, so perhaps that's not surprising! ;-)

    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Balrogs/Wings
    klatu003MasterBeefyLegopassion8Dontcopythatfloppy
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    CCC said:

    As to sets, most MOCs are better than the official sets anyway.
    That can be said for most Lego sets.  The interesting thing about LotR and The Hobbit is that they offered a more mature take on the classic Castle theme.  Even if some of the sets were lackluster due to various constraints we did get a lot of useful pieces and building techniques.  For example Helm's Deep:  Even though it felt incomplete; what we did get was very well done and closer to a MOC than your usual bucket based Lego Castle.  An Unexpected Gathering of course was great all around.  This thread is more or less aimed at the sad current state of affairs as far as Lego and Castle goes.  
    klatu003Brinstar85MasterBeefyDontcopythatfloppyTheBigLegoski
  • natro220natro220 USAMember Posts: 545
    It goes further than Castle though.  To me, the core themes for Lego will always be Space, Town, Castle, and Pirates.  Sadly, the only one that has gotten proper representation the past 5 years is Town/City.  Space hasn't been the same since Star Wars came along, with an occasional rehash (Space Police 3), poorly conceived and executed idea (Galaxy Squad), or now the fusion with Castle (Nexo Knights).  Pirates sets that were released last year were blah and uninspired, resulting in likely poor sales which likely means we won't see that theme again anytime soon short of Pirates of the Caribbean.  I fear some of these themes might disappear all together in favor of the possibly more lucrative licensed themes.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ like it or not, the licensed themes sell, and it seems as though the in-house non-licensed stuff doesn't.  we can try to blame that on designs or other things, but I think the more honest assessment is that the market (kids and their parents) is speaking.  it goes beyond toys and into many other realms as well.  existing known characters/IPs are such an easier sell to consumers than trying to introduce them to something new or generic in this oversaturated world with a never ending supply of options.  looks at movie sequels and remakes galore, TV spinoffs, Video game series, etc.  

    the Pirates sets weren't bad at all.  Castle 2013 weren't either.  Galaxy Squad had some great designs as well, and to a lesser degree so did Alien Conquest.  but they languished on shelves.  Outside of City, which is relatable for the fact that it is familiar and omnipresent, the in house evergreen themes appear to be tanking.  LEGO is just following the money.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 14,219
    ^ I wouldn't assume that the higher stock levels of in-house themes is due to lagging sales.  If they produce 20% more of those in-house sets (because the margins are higher, and there are no royalties or licensing fees), and they sit longer on the shelves (and retail discounts), that's still likely as profitable as SW, SH or other licensed properties.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    Obviously only LEGO knows for sure.  But we can draw some good guesses from anecdotal evidence as well as the fact that in house themes aren't being released. As posted in another thread, outside of the big-bang NEXO, LEGO hasn't put out an in-house non-evergreen theme since Ultra Agents, and wave 2 of that got scuttled in some regions. Pirates 2015 didn't get a follow-up.  Space hasn't seen anything since GS.  And there is currently nothing - evergreen or otherwise - rumored for 2017 either.  If these themes and waves were as profitable as the licensed stuff, LEGO would be releasing them.

    For me, I'm concerned they aren't just going all-in on licensed themes, and limiting their non-licensed stuff to omnipresent Creator and City, and their current Big Bang offering.  it looks like the right business decision given what we know and can surmise, but it doesn't mean we have to like it.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 14,219
    I can't say as I put much stock on whether something is labeled as 'big bang' or not.

    And something is 'evergreen' until they stop making them - Bionicle.

    I do think that Lego is very heavy on licensing, but has also expanded the overall number sets in 'their' themes.  Going back 10 years, there are significantly more sets available, and a greater variety within those themes.  Friends and City have sub-themes in years past would probably be their own theme.

    I'd love a rotating 'classic' line, but that doesn't seem to be a priority.
  • DevastatorDevastator Member Posts: 66
    I agree with everything being said. I think I could see a scenario in the near future in which I purchase few to none of the actual sets and focus parts for MOCs or designs we see featured by users.
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    I never understood the hate for Galaxy Squad. I'll admit I personally avoided them like the plague until I started getting them on deep discount but once in hand and built, firmly believe there some of the most solid sets released in a long time! The hive crawler actually holds top slot on my my personal most underrated sets list and most of the sets still get dragged out by my 10 year old above a LOT of stuff the adult community consider better...
    MasterBeefyLyichirDontcopythatfloppy
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    I never understood the hate for Galaxy Squad. I'll admit I personally avoided them like the plague until I started getting them on deep discount but once in hand and built, firmly believe there some of the most solid sets released in a long time! The hive crawler actually holds top slot on my my personal most underrated sets list and most of the sets still get dragged out by my 10 year old above a LOT of stuff the adult community consider better...
    The Hive Crawler is indeed a highly inventive set.  I broke my down for parts but it was a lot of fun to play with.  The Galactic Titan was also a very good set for the money (especially on discount).  You get a respectable alien base included which is something Lego doesn't do often.
    TheBigLegoski
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,552
    maybe the problem is with the parents having the money. the kid will want galaxy squad sets because they are colorful and look funny, and the parents will be like, don't you want star wars sets instead?

    I remember the star wars theme began just before my dark age, and that's what I would receive as gifts, though I didn't think it was better than other themes, I would rather have gotten adventurers or ninjas set (though getting darth maul was cool)
  • VenunderVenunder Nottingham, UK.Member Posts: 2,570
    I still think there is a permanent market for Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. TLG should release some battle packs for LOTR.
    I feel the problem is that TLG are seeking huge profits from each theme, instead of going for a slow burn of constant smaller profits.
    They could rotate the themes every few years.
    Interspersed with in-house Dwarves,In-house Trolls and in-house Classic Castle.
    Keep the Building Sets well designed instead of minifigure heavy. Then save the minifigs for the battle packs.
    MasterBeefyTheBigLegoskilegomental
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    Venunder said:
    I still think there is a permanent market for Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. 
    there is a permanent market for nearly anything.  it's the size of that market that is in question.  I don't think there is much doubt that the permanent LotR LEGO market would be orders of magnitude smaller than LEGO's current offerings- CITY, Star Wars, Super Heroes, Ninjago, etc.

    There is only so much production capacity - and even more critically, shelf space - available.  In the case of the former, it's inefficient to use that capacity to manufacture low-volume batches of sets/themes.  In the case of the former, you end up just replacing your own product on the shelf, cannibilizing your own sales.  I think the only hope  at some point in the future when production capacity isn't such a big concern is that LEGO could get to the point of offerring some of these fan favorite, low-volume sets and themes as online only products.  I don't think the odds of that are very good however unfortunately.
  • ecmo47ecmo47 North CarolinaMember Posts: 2,101
    edited September 2016
    It would be neat to see Lego make LOTR (or HP) an annual offering much like Winter Village. Once a year we could be treated to well-designed set that targets the AFOL side of the hobby. It's doesn't  have to be a 10000 piece Minas Tirith. I'd think it would sell like hot-cakes. Only available at Lego.com or store at one per person. They didn't go full-bore on the Ghostbuster franchise (only three sets plus the Dimension offering) so I don't see why it wouldn't work.   
    MasterBeefyTheBigLegoskilegomental
  • sklambsklamb speaker of American EnglishMember Posts: 511

    Well, but one of the Ghostbuster sets costs as much as some entire theme waves... ;-)

    And how many annual offerings can TLG afford to make anyway, in addition to the seasonal sets and Winter Village?

    If there were a few more LOTR offerings as part of Dimension (say, Merry and Pippen in their Rohan and Gondor armor) I could be happy enough. It will be interesting to see if HP is revived given the new movie and theater show!

  • tamamahmtamamahm Member Posts: 1,977
    I do not miss LOTR. 
    I miss what LOTR could have been, and wasn't.




    legomental
  • ecmo47ecmo47 North CarolinaMember Posts: 2,101
    ^^If Lego thought it would make enough money, as many as they want. 

    As already discussed, We could easily think up 10+ years worth of sets (big and small) that we would look forward to.

    1. Grond
    2. Oliphant
    3. Eowyn vs Witch King
    4. Fight at the ford (Frodo's escape).
    5. Gray Haven (another boat!)
    6. Old Man Willow encounter
    7. In the Barrow Wright
    8. Tom Bombidil's garden
    9. The Prancing Pony
    10. Bilbo's Party

    and the list go on......


  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 14,219
    I never understood the hate for Galaxy Squad. I'll admit I personally avoided them like the plague until I started getting them on deep discount but once in hand and built, firmly believe there some of the most solid sets released in a long time! The hive crawler actually holds top slot on my my personal most underrated sets list and most of the sets still get dragged out by my 10 year old above a LOT of stuff the adult community consider better...
    It's similar to the 'hate' that Nexo Knights will probably get in a few years.
    MasterBeefyA.Brickovsky
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769

    ecmo47 said:
    ^^If Lego thought it would make enough money, as many as they want. 

    As already discussed, We could easily think up 10+ years worth of sets (big and small) that we would look forward to.

    1. Grond
    2. Oliphant
    3. Eowyn vs Witch King
    4. Fight at the ford (Frodo's escape).
    5. Gray Haven (another boat!)
    6. Old Man Willow encounter
    7. In the Barrow Wright
    8. Tom Bombidil's garden
    9. The Prancing Pony
    10. Bilbo's Party

    and the list go on......


    I guess the problem is who will be buying Eowyn vs Witch King in 3 years time or The Prancing Pony in 9 years time, when the rest of the minifigs for LOTR haven't been available for many years.

    Ghostbusters worked quite well as the number of core characters is quite low. Simpsons worked well as they backed up the big sets with CMF series, although the house would have been fine on its own, containing just the family.
  • ecmo47ecmo47 North CarolinaMember Posts: 2,101
    edited September 2016
    I'd opine that the current fan base originates from the books and LOTR genre in general not specifically from the movies. They have been around since the books were first published in 1954 (1937 for the Hobbit). I think there'd always be a good core of interested buyers.  Granted, LOTR will never be a evergreen as Star Wars but it is a regenerating fanbase due to darn good books.

    On the minfig point, I'd say that since Lego has the capacity to crank out 3+ CMF's per YEAR, they should not have a problem creating a few new LOTR figures. Hey, how about a LOTR CMF series! That would be the cat's pajamas.    
    MasterBeefyTheBigLegoski
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,431
    On that defence I'd say Harry Potter has far more evergreen potential - the renewing fan base skews younger than the Tolkien fan base and there in closer to LEGO's General target.

    all in all though you can't blame LEGO for focusing more on the bigger easier markets (tie ins to current films etc) rather than trying to keep a smaller (likely harder to please) market happy when there's less profit in it for them.
    wardmcatwranglerDontcopythatfloppy
  • CaptainPirateManCaptainPirateMan MichiganMember Posts: 347
    I would be ok with a return of Harry Potter sets.
    wardmdspigeltamamahmDontcopythatfloppyryjaylegomental
  • monkyby87monkyby87 Member Posts: 316
    ecmo47 said:
    ^^If Lego thought it would make enough money, as many as they want. 

    As already discussed, We could easily think up 10+ years worth of sets (big and small) that we would look forward to.

    1. Grond
    2. Oliphant
    3. Eowyn vs Witch King
    4. Fight at the ford (Frodo's escape).
    5. Gray Haven (another boat!)
    6. Old Man Willow encounter
    7. In the Barrow Wright
    8. Tom Bombidil's garden
    9. The Prancing Pony
    10. Bilbo's Party

    and the list go on......



    Those are awfully niche in terms of appeal.  As a fan of the movies alone (which the sets were based off of), I couldn't tell you what half of those would include or look like.  Harry Potter does seem to have more lasting appeal.  With a theme park, a new movie, and books constantly in circulation it's always out there. 

    I might buy a LOTR cmf series, but I don't see many people doing that.  Same with Harry Potter, but I do think a Harry Potter cmf series would sell better. 

  • VenunderVenunder Nottingham, UK.Member Posts: 2,570
    edited September 2016
    Depending on which CMF are included I think LoTR cmf could sell really well.

    Include a couple of Blue Mountain Dwarves and some Iron Hill Dwarves, a few Elves like Glorfindel and Celeborn in Elven armour with the Elven Glaive, Some of the Knights of Gondor, Some Soldiers of Minas Tirith, one or two variant Army of the dead soldiers, and a few lesser Orcs of Moria, Some Easterlings, Some Men of Nurn, Some Rangers of Ithilien, Some Southron soldiers Throw in some Hillmen of Saruman if you like and you could sell millions.
    But that is probably replacing the battlepacks that should have been made. ;)

    Include the main characters again and people would just select the army builders. :(
    Although if TLG could do a few more LoTR building sets people who have the originals and new FOL's might want to pick up a new version of the main characters?
      

     
    MasterBeefyTheBigLegoskilegomental
  • MaffyDMaffyD West YorkshireMember Posts: 3,024
    Minas Tirith, Minas Tirith, Minas Tirith.
    That is all.
    MasterBeefyGoldchainsBumblepantsrichl
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 14,219
    Probably should update this topic to:  Anyone else miss LoTR... and LotR Pipe Dreams
    gmonkey76Goldchainsbandit778MaffyDDontcopythatfloppy
  • devilheaddevilhead Member Posts: 282
    ecmo47 said:

    7. In the Barrow Wright
    8. Tom Bombidil's garden
    Neither the barrow-wight (which is a ghost of sorts, not a location) nor Tom Bombadil's garden were not featured in the movies so it is unlikely that LEGO would or even could make those into sets.
  • VenunderVenunder Nottingham, UK.Member Posts: 2,570
    However the fans of the books would buy them and say " Thank TLG for recognising a beloved integral part of the books which got overlooked by PJ. " 
    Aragorn did not just "give" the hobbits their swords.
    Tom Bombadil rescued the hobbits from the Barrow Wight, woken by The Witch King Wraith to stop the hobbits from reaching Rivendell .........
    Tom Bombadil then gave them the magic swords made by the Men of Westernesse, to help them fight off the Wraiths throughout the rest of their journey. Particularly at Weathertop where Frodo would have been captured by the Wraiths if the magic swords had not been used to fight them off. 
    Frodo is later given "Sting" by Bilbo.

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    I'm trying to think ... has LEGO ever done any licensed sets based on a book?
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,431
    Some of the early Harry Potter sets looked like they took stuff from the books that weren't in the films, but not explicitly I don't think.
  • monkyby87monkyby87 Member Posts: 316
    edited September 2016
    I'm a HUGE LotR/Hobbit fan and would welcome additional sets with open arms, but some are grossly overestimating the market. Without a movie, the market is a small percentage of what it would be with one. Yes, the books are timeless classics with many fans throughout the world, but that's not where Lego's license sits. As with almost everything else on this site, we have to remember we are the smallest of the small percentage of Lego fans. What we do is not always indicative of the market. In fact, it probably rarely is. We are super fans and collectors and even investors. The other 99.9% are buying toys. 

    I think this is pretty accurate.  All of us here may want to see some of those sets, but the rest of the world that buys Lego has no idea what they are.  And we have to remember, some kids buying and collecting Lego weren't around when the original 3 movies came out. 
    Yodaliciousgmonkey76SumoLegoryjay
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