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LEGO fight Against Chinese counterfeit LEGO

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Comments

  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    ^ exactly.  If they had drastically different pricing by region, then re-importation for a profit would be a boom business.
  • eggsheneggshen Middleton, WIMember Posts: 591
    I found this link when doing a little research, it is to CNBC with info on how TLG plans to crack the market in China. A couple of things I learned from it:

    1. It seems that maybe Ninjago was extended so that TLG could sell Asian culture based action sets in China and Japan. Because nothing sells better than something based on your culture as interpreted by another culture. Just look at how much better Americans made Cadbury bars here in the States!!! Oh, and don't get me started on American "beer".
    2. TLG has been partnering with professors in China to start encouraging "learning through play" which is well established in the west but not so much in China. Um, I don't think that will help TLG sell toys. I think it will help LEPIN sell toys. And I've heard of playing the long game, but that is the "we'll get them hooked in a couple of generations" long game.
    3. Online gaming is huge, and TLG is open to trying to crack the mobile market with apps associated with their products. If TLG is having a hard time getting people interested in their online games in the west, wait until they start trying to navigate the excessively muddy waters of app development in China. I know a lot of app developers that have tried and absolutely given up. It's a mess.

    Maybe I'm way off base, and TLG knows what they are doing. But I think their efforts will just help OTHER companies in China make money. Sounds bad to me.

    brumey
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Edmic said:

    Do that 5 times a week and that's an extra $600,- a month. I myself would so do that if Lego would offer me that option. And someone from China would do it for even less i guess.
    To put that into perspective, that's 2-4 times (depending on the province) the minimum wage.

    If this is viable for LEPIN on a longer-term basis then about the only thing that can happen is that TLG would have to reduce their prices - worldwide. People simply aren't going to pay double the price for the same thing - and let's face it, we're talking about a toy. The alternative is it they will become a secondary, or even non-existent, brand.

    There's also no reason why it shouldn't be viable. If you strip out the profit made by TLG and retailers, the price isn't too different. However, Chinese companies tend to make money out of larger volumes with smaller margins; in the west, it's the opposite.
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    eggshen said:

    Maybe I'm way off base, and TLG knows what they are doing. But I think their efforts will just help OTHER companies in China make money. Sounds bad to me.
    For whom?

    For a long time TLG has had the market largely to itself. Yes, there have been clones, but they've all either been regarded as either "cheap Chinese rubbish" or, when it comes to things like Mega Bloks, somehow they're not-quite-equal.

    If other brands come along and manage to present themselves as equals, just in a different country, then suddenly TLG will have to do what most businesses in the world have to do - compete. As customers, that's probably good.
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    TigerMoth said:
    eggshen said:

    Maybe I'm way off base, and TLG knows what they are doing. But I think their efforts will just help OTHER companies in China make money. Sounds bad to me.
    For whom?

    For a long time TLG has had the market largely to itself. Yes, there have been clones, but they've all either been regarded as either "cheap Chinese rubbish" or, when it comes to things like Mega Bloks, somehow they're not-quite-equal.

    If other brands come along and manage to present themselves as equals, just in a different country, then suddenly TLG will have to do what most businesses in the world have to do - compete. As customers, that's probably good.
    This just comes off as wrong to me. That used to be the case- LEGO had a patent on their bricks, and had the market about to themselves. But since then, LEGO has had to compete. What you you think almost killed LEGO back when their patent expired? But that pushed LEGO on to great things.
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    SprinkleOtter said:

    But since then, LEGO has had to compete.
    But not on equal terms. Everything else wasn't quite in the same league.

    That leads into a vicious circle. If you're going to be regarded as the underdog then you can't afford to invest in developing a comprehensive range - and you stay the underdog.

    LEPIN have "cheated" by stealing a range, which gives them a more equal footing.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    edited July 2016
    I don't think Lego ever had a corner on the building market.  There have always been competitiors.

    I think it important to point out that Lego is as popular and profitable as ever.  I don't think the clone market was quite as vibrant in the late '90's/early '00's.  I don't recall MB taking over and converting any measurable share of the building block market.

    And the patent expiring had little to do with the brink of bankruptcy period of Lego.  And obviously would have no impact on clone manufacturers that don't have issues producing 'illegal' bricks.

    TigerMoth said:

    That leads into a vicious circle.
    My 2nd favorite vicious cycle.


    MattDawson
  • RecceRecce Tiny Little Red DotMember Posts: 923
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
  • RecceRecce Tiny Little Red DotMember Posts: 923
    ^ And also wouldn't make any business sense at all...
    Isn't that what TLG is already doing now, given the US and Japan markets had the lowest RRP across the Globe?

    They price the products where the market can absorb, hence why it is expensive here in SE Asia and the Middle East. 
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    Maybe not so much on their website...
    SprinkleOtterRainstorm26SumoLegobandit778Pitfall69Jern92davetheoxygenmanstluxTheLoneTensor
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    pharmjod said:
    Maybe not so much on their website...
    No contest on that one...
    pharmjodPitfall69
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    pharmjod said:
    Maybe not so much on their website...
    They spent all of their permanent website budget in 2003.
    Pitfall69SprinkleOtterpharmjod
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    LEGO has a website?
    Pitfall69pharmjod
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    SprinkleOtter said:

    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin.
    Actually, we do. I just don't have time to prove it.

    Perhaps somebody would like to wade through the company statements and the annual report?
  • AllBrickAllBrick UKMember Posts: 1,490
    ^^ I dont think we need to really.

    Injection moulding is only expensive when you first buy the machines and I'm pretty certain TLGs machines have paid for themselves by now.
  • FireheartFireheart Suffolk, UKMember Posts: 631
    I wouldn't worry about LEPIN being a competitor to the LEGO market in any way, until if / when LEPIN bring out a range that is unique to them. And competes with LEGO on an equal footing i.e. non counterfeit goods.
    Others have tried like MY, and I can say from seeing this first hand, kids don't want the MY products, they want LEGO.
    I showed my 8 year old the LEPIN pictures of the product and he looked for a couple of minutes, then said Star Wars isn't spelt right, and why is Lego spelt wrong...
    There maybe some that want to purchase LEPIN, but that is up to them... The 2nd hand market for them will be non existent... The only concern I would have is purchasing loose parts via a bricklink kind of site, as then it might be hard to know (depending on the quality of the counterfeit, if it's sold as Lego) what you are getting.. Especially if these guys also see value in the loose brick market compared to the boxes products...

    And then of course buying a complete 2nd hand no box or instruction Lego item on eBay will be risky...
    But on the bright side of that, the market for MISB Lego items will be better..
  • nhyonenhyone Member Posts: 145
    TigerMoth said:

    I bumped into a new term the other day. Apparently, the LEPIN sets are "premium clones". To most people, most of the time, a premium clone is as good as the original - actually, it's better because it's cheaper. In fact, on that basis, it's AFOLs that are out of step.
    Comparing the same sets, LEPIN is cheaper than Lele and Bela. How is that premium?

    Which brings us to Pogo. Until recently, they only produced figures. Now, they have released a couple of modulars, but without LEPIN's discrepancies. Indeed, they actually claim they are completely accurate copies of the originals. Not only do we have other manufacturers pushing out copies of LEGO sets, they're competing amongst themselves to produce better copies.
    That may be their objective, but based on one forum feedback (not that I was searching for it), the quality leaves much to be desired -- even worse than LEPIN. I would avoid the first batch. :-D

    And speaking of improvement, that brings me to the Helicarrier. The Lego set has 2,996 pieces. LEPIN's one is supposed to have 3,057 pieces. SY has announced one that has 4,288 pieces and is 15cm longer. Is it still a copy?
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    AllBrick said:
    ^^ I dont think we need to really.

    Injection moulding is only expensive when you first buy the machines and I'm pretty certain TLGs machines have paid for themselves by now.
    Nope, the molds are expensive. As is quality control.
    MattDawson
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    nhyone said:


    And speaking of improvement, that brings me to the Helicarrier. The Lego set has 2,996 pieces. LEPIN's one is supposed to have 3,057 pieces. SY has announced one that has 4,288 pieces and is 15cm longer. Is it still a copy?
    I think a distinction has to be made somewhat between copying LEGO's in-house IP (modulars, etc), or copying a LEGO third party IP product (Star Wars, Superheroes, etc.).

    Even if you say the SY version is nothing like the LEGO one and definitely NOT a copy, you still can't get around the fact that they almost certainly do not have a third party licensing agreement with Marvel, and that Marvel is not going to receive royalties on the sales. So it's still IP theft.

    Now, if they created a new design of a Modular building in the same/size scale as all the other modulars, then they would be completely int he clear obviously.
    Pitfall69
  • AllBrickAllBrick UKMember Posts: 1,490
    AllBrick said:
    ^^ I dont think we need to really.

    Injection moulding is only expensive when you first buy the machines and I'm pretty certain TLGs machines have paid for themselves by now.
    Nope, the molds are expensive. As is quality control.
    And I stated they are, they've paid for themselves I said.

    Quality control can.be done by a computer too, not that I have any facts as to what TLG use.
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    AllBrick said:
    AllBrick said:
    ^^ I dont think we need to really.

    Injection moulding is only expensive when you first buy the machines and I'm pretty certain TLGs machines have paid for themselves by now.
    Nope, the molds are expensive. As is quality control.
    And I stated they are, they've paid for themselves I said.

    Quality control can.be done by a computer too, not that I have any facts as to what TLG use.
    Yet they make new molds all the time.

    And computers aren't expensive?
  • EdmicEdmic ZürichMember Posts: 102
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
    2014:

    • Revenue increased by 13% in DKK to DKK 28.6 billion against DKK 25.3 billion the year before
    • The year's operating profit increased to DKK 9.7billion against DKK 8.3 billion in 2013 – an increase of 16%
    • Net profit was DKK 7.0 billion compared to DKK 6.1 billion in 2013 – an increase of 15%
    So Net profit is 25% of Revenue.

    That is huge in today's market.

    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    2014:

    • Revenue increased by 13% in DKK to DKK 28.6 billion against DKK 25.3 billion the year before
    • The year's operating profit increased to DKK 9.7billion against DKK 8.3 billion in 2013 – an increase of 16%
    • Net profit was DKK 7.0 billion compared to DKK 6.1 billion in 2013 – an increase of 15%
    So Net profit is 25% of Revenue.

    That is huge in today's market.

    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    However, that data is skewed. The LEGO Movie came out that year, and was an unprecedented success. Does data from the previous year of following year agree with the above?
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    edited July 2016
    AllBrick said:
    AllBrick said:
    ^^ I dont think we need to really.

    Injection moulding is only expensive when you first buy the machines and I'm pretty certain TLGs machines have paid for themselves by now.
    Nope, the molds are expensive. As is quality control.
    And I stated they are, they've paid for themselves I said.

    Quality control can.be done by a computer too, not that I have any facts as to what TLG use.
    Yet they make new molds all the time.

    And computers aren't expensive?

    Injection molds represent the greatest expense in upfront production costs. There are several factors that go into making a mold as well and the stricker the tolerances, the more expensive the mold will be. Another determining factor is how many cycles the mold is going to be used for. How many different parts does Lego currently make? 

    Quality control should also be figured into the cost. On average quality control makes up 15-20% of total sales revenue for a company; some companies as high as 40%. 

    I have a limited background in injection molding, but I did design some injection molds for prototypes. A prototype mold is generally less expensive than a regular production mold because the tolerances and quality of a prototype do not have to be as strict and you aren't going to use it like you would a production mold. 
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764

    I have a limited background in injection molding, but I did design some injection molds for prototypes. A prototype mold is generally less expensive than a regular production mold because the tolerances and quality of a prototype do not have to be as strict and you aren't going to use it like you would a production mold. 

    ^
    ... As a barber?
    Pitfall69bandit778ricecake
  • EdmicEdmic ZürichMember Posts: 102
    2014:

    • Revenue increased by 13% in DKK to DKK 28.6 billion against DKK 25.3 billion the year before
    • The year's operating profit increased to DKK 9.7billion against DKK 8.3 billion in 2013 – an increase of 16%
    • Net profit was DKK 7.0 billion compared to DKK 6.1 billion in 2013 – an increase of 15%
    So Net profit is 25% of Revenue.

    That is huge in today's market.

    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    However, that data is skewed. The LEGO Movie came out that year, and was an unprecedented success. Does data from the previous year of following year agree with the above?
    Looked up some data, and all of these figures come from Lego reports itself.

    2015 Whole year net profit of 25.6%
    2014 Whole year net profit of 24.6%
    2013 Whole year net profit of 24.2%
    2012 Whole year net profit of 24,3%

    Also both Revenue and Net profit show enormous growth over the last years.

    So yeah i'd say those margins are a consistency for the company.

    It's good for LEGO that they can pul this of, and if it was my company i'd do the exact same thing, but profits are high. And even if there's a crisis, LEGO seems to have no notice of it.

    MaffyDLittleLori
  • MaffyDMaffyD West YorkshireMember Posts: 3,397
    ^ My like above was for @Edmic doing the homework. Thank you. Interesting percentages there...
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    Pitfall69 said:

    Injection molds represent the greatest expense in upfront production costs.
    A typical mould costs $50-100,000. The most expensive was $250,000.

    I think that TLG aims to run 18 million cycles before it retires a mould, but each cycle can easily yield a dozen bricks.

    More than 200 million bricks from a less than $100,000 mould, is less than peanuts. Whilst the mould still has a cost, it's negligible.

    It's only expensive to a small child when they ask why LEGO products are so expensive. TLG is just as capable as other companies when it comes to spinning things.
    Edmic said:

    So yeah i'd say those margins are a consistency for the company.
    Yes. I've looked at it before, knew it was high, but couldn't remember how high. If I'd guessed at 30%, somebody would then have diverted attention to me apparently over-egging the situation (out with that UK/US dictionary again!), and the basic point would've been lost.

    But it means that TLG have plenty of elbow-room when it comes to dealing with clones that undercut them.
    nhyone said:

    Comparing the same sets, LEPIN is cheaper than Lele and Bela. How is that premium?
    A premium clone is a good-quality clone; it has nothing to do with price. And despite what some people want to believe, as both the moulds and the moulding machines are made by third parties (in both cases, German), there is no real reason why other manufacturers can't achieve similar results, whether they're from the west, China, or the Back of Beyond.
    Jern92
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin.
    Actually, we do. I just don't have time to prove it.

    Perhaps somebody would like to wade through the company statements and the annual report?
    I've always found their annual reports to be vague and nowhere near specific enough to predict future Lego behaviour.
    SprinkleOtter
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    edited July 2016
    @Pitfall69 said:
    I have a limited background in injection molding, but I did design some injection molds for prototypes.
    ^... As a barber?
    Never had an injection mold haircut?  It'll change your life.  

    Also useful if you have male-pattern baldness.  If you don't mind being mistaken for Ken.  You may not know this, but Stone Phillips was bald in the mid-'90's before meeting @Pitfall69.
    SprinkleOtterPitfall69catwrangler
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    SumoLego said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin.
    Actually, we do. I just don't have time to prove it.

    Perhaps somebody would like to wade through the company statements and the annual report?
    I've always found their annual reports to be vague and nowhere near specific enough to predict future Lego behaviour.
    As a private company, their filing requirements are a lot lower.
    SumoLegoPitfall69
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    ^ Yes, that was my point.  I'm sure those sales and production figures are guarded secrets in Denmark.

    Frankly, it'd just like to know the production and sales figures on the Dolphin Cruiser and CMFs.  I'm sure I'd be floored.  

    I have the sneaking suspicion that despite the early retirement of the Town Hall, they probably did very well in terms of profitability on the set.
    Pitfall69
  • SprinkleOtterSprinkleOtter Member Posts: 2,764
    SumoLego said:
    ^ Yes, that was my point.  I'm sure those sales and production figures are guarded secrets in Denmark.

    Frankly, it'd just like to know the production and sales figures on the Dolphin Cruiser and CMFs.  I'm sure I'd be floored.  

    I have the sneaking suspicion that despite the early retirement of the Town Hall, they probably did very well in terms of profitability on the set.
    I just want to know the sales figures for Galidor...
    catwrangler
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    I cannot wait until a company pops up and starts making knock-offs of Lepin sets ;) There's actually a Chinese clone motorcycle that is a clone of a clone of a BMW Motorcycle from the late 1930's. How about that?
    SprinkleOtter
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    SumoLego said:

    I'm sure those sales and production figures are guarded secrets in Denmark.
    They'd be guarded secrets for any company, private or listed.
    Frankly, it'd just like to know the production and sales figures on the Dolphin Cruiser and CMFs.  I'm sure I'd be floored. 
    Before you get that far, can you get your head around what the numbers would actually mean? When number get big, people have problems. If you start talking about the numbers of stars in the universe, most people can't "feel" what that means. The number of LEGO sets is a lot smaller but for a lot of people it still doesn't give them any idea of how that pans out across the world.

    A few years ago, one statistic was published - just over a million (the largest number for any set) Mindstorms sets had been produced over time. OK, that was a few years ago so we've moved on - and what did "Mindstorms" mean anyway. TLG like telling us how many bricks they make, so we can probably update the numbers a little. But then comes the hard part - what does a million or two copies or whatever, spread across world, actually represent?
    SumoLego
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,146
    I suppose you're right in that a comparative analysis of sets would yield more insight.

    Knowing that Lego produced 800,000 Dolphin Cruisers really doesn't tell us much.  And it also wouldn't reflect retailer discounted sets - on Lego's wholesale cost.  

    Maybe having the Retail Stores sales figures and stock levels would serve as a crude microcosm of how Lego approaches evaluating their products.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,481
    Pitfall69 said:
    I cannot wait until a company pops up and starts making knock-offs of Lepin sets ;) There's actually a Chinese clone motorcycle that is a clone of a clone of a BMW Motorcycle from the late 1930's. How about that?
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    SumoLego said:
    I suppose you're right in that a comparative analysis of sets would yield more insight.

    Knowing that Lego produced 800,000 Dolphin Cruisers really doesn't tell us much.  And it also wouldn't reflect retailer discounted sets - on Lego's wholesale cost.  

    Maybe having the Retail Stores sales figures and stock levels would serve as a crude microcosm of how Lego approaches evaluating their products.
    Depending on what you want, there's more data out there than might be obvious. TLG tell us what are the most popular themes. We know how many sets they produce and how many bricks (but you have to factor in things like display models). If Mindstorms sold a million, but that was the most, everything else was less (although the operative word there is "was"). We know that 20,000 is a "limited edition", so anything else should be more.

    If you try to narrow it down, you're not going to get very far because it's obviously commercially sensitive. If you just want an idea of how many sets are typically produced then you'll probably get some sort of ball-park figure.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,937
    edited July 2016
    Edmic said:
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    Not sure about all the words, but if you show previous quotes, it looks really neat.  And blaim.
    catwrangler
  • ricecakericecake Maryland, USAMember Posts: 878
    Edmic said:
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    Not sure about all the words, but if you show previous quotes, it looks really neat.  And blaim.
    On another forum I'm on, they call this a "quote tunnel".
    catwrangler
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    SprinkleOtterTheLoneTensorSumoLegoricecakegmonkey76
  • masterX244masterX244 GermanyMember Posts: 531
    10XXX under attack again by the chinese copycats
    this time 10221
    http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=94997&st=9325#entry2612309


  • bandit778bandit778 Docking Bay 94. Member Posts: 2,349
    @masterX244
    After looking at the post, I carried on reading - It appears some of the members on Eurobricks are a lot less concerned about the copycat sets than most of the posters on Brickset. 

  • masterX244masterX244 GermanyMember Posts: 531
    @bandit778 not good. not that Ebay and other sources get downgraded to a lottery with regards to what you get. really wondering if Disney got those on their radar to sue them into pieces.....
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,481
    Remember Eurobricks has a much larger MOC community than brickset, and is much more open to non-purist ideas about modding parts, or using clone parts where they don't exist in lego. There are quite a few users there that buy clones just for the unique torso prints.
    SumoLego
  • nhyonenhyone Member Posts: 145
    edited July 2016
    Lepin must have gotten some flak over their big sets, because this one says 100% replica, no missing pieces (I think) and no substitutions! :-D

    What is really interesting to me is that a few posts down, there is a link to POGO's page on TaoBao and they offer a 2nd-floor for the Cafe Corner for those who want to mod it taller! Wow. (It is only available in 15 days time.)
  • MaffyDMaffyD West YorkshireMember Posts: 3,397
    ricecake said:
    Edmic said:
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    Not sure about all the words, but if you show previous quotes, it looks really neat.  And blaim.
    On another forum I'm on, they call this a "quote tunnel".

    On YAF I used to visit it's called a "quote pit". The original quote has to work hard to climb out of it!
    ricecake
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,481
    edited July 2016
    nhyone said:

    What is really interesting to me is that a few posts down, there is a link to POGO's page on TaoBao and they offer a 2nd-floor for the Cafe Corner for those who want to mod it taller! Wow. (It is only available in 15 days time.)
    It is funny in a way that the fake manufacturers almost seem to be listening to customers, giving them what lego won't. Next step, carriages for Emerald Night.
    pharmjod
  • masterX244masterX244 GermanyMember Posts: 531
    MaffyD said:
    ricecake said:
    Edmic said:
    Recce said:
    TigerMoth said:
    SprinkleOtter said:

    Not necessarily- they may have thought that they were going to make money on them, but are not. Happens all the time in business.
    Strictly speaking, you're right, but they seem to have an awful lot of confidence in terms of the range:
    Confidence is not the same as competence.

    (I'm not saying that they are losing money- I'm just saying that it is a distinct possibility.)
    They're not losing money, just that they have a very very thin profit margin, unlike TLG. 
    We don't know LEGO has a large profit margin. They have to spend a lot on advertising, unlike clones. And customer service, unlike clones. And a website, and ambassador programs, and retail....
    I won't blaim them, things are still selling by containers a day, but it is a large profit margin.
    Not sure about all the words, but if you show previous quotes, it looks really neat.  And blaim.
    On another forum I'm on, they call this a "quote tunnel".

    On YAF I used to visit it's called a "quote pit". The original quote has to work hard to climb out of it!
    Achivement get! "We need to go deeper" :). wondering when this one manages to break the forum style
    catwrangler
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