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BBC picked up Lego violence research ...

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  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    @CCC,

    I think confusion with the actual word and terms, and how they are used is a fair point within politics, and yes I probably am guilty of throwing about the term liberal in the wrong way from time to time. I have read plenty of political biographies and autobiographies, and a pretty good example is Thatcher, not that we want a thread on Thatcherism, but really she was more a radical or Gladstonian Liberal over a right wing conservative. The politics of categorisation is too attractive now though, so people are pigeon holed. Grab a student on some March and ask them about Thatcher and they will say she was pretty far right for example, but in my view they would be wrong. 


    @Xefan

    we don't agree on everything, but you make some fair reasoned points. 


    Perhaps back to lego is my/our best bet!!

    richo
  • GallardoLUGallardoLU USAMember Posts: 644

    any chance we can get back to the debate of minfigs killing each other with weapons, or weapon like objects?

    xwingpilot
  • xwingpilotxwingpilot UKMember Posts: 797
    ^ Tell me about it. By the time angry clone had gotten tooled-up to make an appearance on page 1, the discussion had already turned serious :(
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 12,909

    any chance we can get back to the debate of minfigs killing each other with weapons, or weapon like objects?

    I propose DEATH BY CHEESE WEDGE!  
    catwranglerMattDawson
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    edited May 2016
    Partly my fault I must say! Apologies. i remember as a kid in the 80s playing with Britain toys. I had a little German 2 man team with mortar, you could snap matches in half and spring fire them out! 
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,709
    SumoLego said:

    any chance we can get back to the debate of minfigs killing each other with weapons, or weapon like objects?

    I propose DEATH BY CHEESE WEDGE!  
    What cracks first?
    SumoLegoSprinkleOtter
  • catwranglercatwrangler Northern IrelandMember Posts: 1,853
    CCC said:
    SumoLego said:

    any chance we can get back to the debate of minfigs killing each other with weapons, or weapon like objects?

    I propose DEATH BY CHEESE WEDGE!  
    What cracks first?
    Your resolve; they're awfully fiddly to pick up!
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,864

    It's pretty clear that even staple themes like Castle went from "a bunch of guys with swords and the occasional trebuchet" to good factions fighting evil factions, including the undead. Nexo Knights' schtick is that you upgrade your weaponry to fight better.
    There's no disputing that Nexo Knights is a violent theme. However, does it really make sense to say it's more violent than Castle? Sure, LEGO is no longer afraid to show characters fighting on the boxes. However, I feel like Nexo Knights has a lot more to it than fighting compared to some older Castle themes.

    Let's look at the two biggest Nexo Knights sets. #70317 The Fortrex is a heavily-armed battle station. However, on the inside, it has training gear, a round table, and a kitchen (with chefbot!). Not to mention a prison/dungeon, as is typical for any LEGO castle these days.

    #6080 King's Castle has a bunch of armed knights on the outside, but inside, it's got nothing. Well, nothing but some spare axes and swords.

    But let's look at the evil #70323 Jestro's Volcano Lair. Surely it will be an aggressive-looking place inside and out? Well, kind of. Outside, it's got a giant saw blade, a turret that fires goofy-looking monsters, an evil-looking throne, and a giant spinning mouth full of teeth (with a trap door above it). But inside, besides a dungeon and some spare weapons, it's got: a treasury, a luxurious-looking bedroom, a posh-looking bathroom (with a cute rubber frog!), a place for storing magic books, and even a kitchen with a cauldron, salt and pepper shakers, a caged chicken, and a banana!

    #6085 Black Monarch's Castle has a bunch of armed knights on the outside, but inside, it's got… a dungeon and some spare swords and spears.

    The fate of that chicken notwithstanding, it seems like these two Nexo Knights sets have a lot more lighthearted, nonviolent play potential built in than a lot of the big old-school castles! I think this is part of what LEGO means when they talk about using humor to tone down the gravity of the violence in their sets.

    Classic castles didn't have much going on inside at all, not even iconic medieval elements like a throne room or treasury. To an extent, they felt like, as the boys tested in this article described a more recent LEGO castle, "just the backdrop for the battle." The Fortrex and Jestro's Lair feel at least marginally more livable. There's more for the characters to do than just march around with or fight with their weapons.
  • FauchFauch FranceMember Posts: 2,465
    about that article, why is girly stuff so bad? girls doing boys stuff is fine but the contrary is shameful. even girls get criticized for acting too much like... girls.
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,864
    Fauch said:
    about that article, why is girly stuff so bad? girls doing boys stuff is fine but the contrary is shameful. even girls get criticized for acting too much like... girls.
    I definitely agree with your sentiment! It's frustrating when people belittle things just for being "girly" or "feminine".

    I think many critics of LEGO Friends are less worried about LEGO Friends being girly than it being stereotypically girly… as in, presenting girls with an extremely narrow definition of what kinds of products and interests are "appropriate" for them. A lot of these critics also believe that the different style of figure "segregates" it from other themes, so that instead of complementing other LEGO products it creates a new, separate bubble for girls to play in.

    IMO, these are all valid things to be concerned about, even though IMO they're not what we've seen happening for the most part. Gender diversity has not shrunk in other LEGO themes — if anything, I'd say it's increased — and there's been more girls playing with LEGO in general lately, not just with LEGO Friends. I've also seen some of the lessons from this research seemingly spilling into more boy-oriented themes like Ninjago and City.

    Honestly, I think both sides of the debate often get caught in the trap of trivializing the effort it takes to design and market products for girls in a positive way. One side falls into the trap of thinking that LEGO was mostly gender-neutral to begin with and that all they needed to get girls into it were more female characters in more diverse roles, meaning their R&D investments for LEGO Friends were a huge waste. The other side falls into the trap of thinking that it doesn't matter one bit how products are designed and marketed for different genders, and that LEGO Friends became successful simply by embracing stereotypes and "conventional wisdom" about how boys and girls play.

    But the truth is that creating LEGO products girls love was a huge challenge, and that it's still an ongoing learning process. I think this article, in spite of some bits I disagree with, does a good job acknowledging that middle ground. Anywho, this is all sort of off topic, so sorry for rambling.
    catwranglerrd1899MattDawsonLyichir
  • MattDawsonMattDawson Solihull, UKMember Posts: 1,214
    edited June 2016
    The trouble with female kid orientated stuff - if it's not pastel coloured/girly, it won't be attractive to buy, and if it goes with the pastel colours/girly nature, it gets accused or pandering to stereotypes. 

    Can't win situation, me thinks.
  • MrShinyAndNewMrShinyAndNew Member Posts: 273
    Aanchir said:

    It's pretty clear that even staple themes like Castle went from "a bunch of guys with swords and the occasional trebuchet" to good factions fighting evil factions, including the undead. Nexo Knights' schtick is that you upgrade your weaponry to fight better.
    There's no disputing that Nexo Knights is a violent theme. However, does it really make sense to say it's more violent than Castle? Sure, LEGO is no longer afraid to show characters fighting on the boxes. However, I feel like Nexo Knights has a lot more to it than fighting compared to some older Castle themes.

    Let's look at the two biggest Nexo Knights sets. #70317 The Fortrex is a heavily-armed battle station. However, on the inside, it has training gear, a round table, and a kitchen (with chefbot!). Not to mention a prison/dungeon, as is typical for any LEGO castle these days.


    I was actually referring to the older Castle lines such as the fantasy series where the enemy factions are undead skeletons, goblins, trolls, and evil wizards. But arguably, battle stations protected by rotating saw blades are more violent than battle stations protected by walls: saws are pretty gruesome ways to murder your enemies. Dead is still dead though.

    But my point was that the old Castle lines didn't have such strong war themes. A castle came with some knights to defend it but didn't usually come with siege equipment. That was sold separately and often the besiegers were the same faction as the defenders. Even when there were multiple factions it wasn't clear who should be fighting whom and there were often sets that mixed the factions. So arguably a series like fantasy-era Castle and Nexo Knights is explicitly more violent in that there are opposing sides who are by design fighting each other. A collection of random knights is one thing, a collection of fighters from two opposing factions who are seemingly sworn to destroy each other is another.

    I mean, it's not likely that the humans will ever form a truce with the undead skeletons, or the orcs, or the Nexo monsters. These are card-carrying villains. There is no peace, no diplomacy, nothing like that. (Of course a child is free to imagine these things in - that's beside the point).

    Anyway I don't think Lego has reached "too much" violence but I think it's pretty clear that it has a lot more than it used to.
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