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Predictions on Discontinuing Sets and their Secondary Market Value

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Comments

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,453
    So far, I haven't had an issue with a buyer who wasn't happy with their product, but I am probably due...Ugh... I do use stock images of sets that have normal shelf wear, but beyond that, I always take pictures of any imperfections. I also point them out in my listing. Even if the set is mint, I will not list it as such because anything can happen to the set during shipment and/or one's idea of mint may be different than another. 

    Question though; if you are worried about a set being damaged by the carrier, why wouldn't you take out insurance? 
    VorpalRyuFarmer_John
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    If there are imperfections I photograph them, multiple pictures of them.  I also say the set is damaged in the description.  I never say things like MISB anywhere.  Usually if I get a picky buyer it is someone with very low feedback.  Last person had a total of 3.  I do like giving people a chance so I won't disallow newbies.  It does irk me sometimes, but I usually just write it off as someone new to collecting and buying on eBay, they are just learning the ropes I hope.

    As for insurance.  It is a total waste of money.  Insurance definitely wasn't invented by a scientist, just a money lender.  Money lenders are 100% useless in this age.  Since all our economies are struggling I suggest we get back to real growth instead of made up "pay me just in case something goes wrong, then we can argue about it and you'll never receive compensation because insurance is a scam".  My dad had a friend who was in insurance.  Nice big house, big family, total asshole.  Complete douche.  I'm not worried about carriers damaging sets, just picky buyers that haven't been brought down to reality yet.
    VorpalRyukiki180703dougts
  • scotty12scotty12 United States, IowaMember Posts: 778

    No..I never labeled it as mint.  If there's a dent in the box, I take pics and describe it in details.  I was taken by surprise when  it was...barely squeezed in shipping...it was double boxed...but ebay told him it could be returned and gave him a returned shipping label.  So I said fine...no problem...didn't have a problem with it...ebay gave him the return shipping label so I thought I was in the clear.....until at the end of the month I got my Ebay monthly invoice and they had charged me another $8.xx for return shipping.  So I ended up paying shipping twice.

      So now I even make sure there isn't one of those line indentations across the front or back because of "mint" collectors.  It seems like sometimes it's only a matter of time before we're sending off sealed boxes to be graded like coins/cards.

    VorpalRyuDougout
  • janscjansc The Netherlands Member Posts: 60
    I mark my sets MISB because the Lego is mint in sealed box. It does not say anything about the quality of the box. Is this a weird way of reasoning on my part?
    VorpalRyuDougout
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    It is one way to reason it. But you will also get complaints from people that MISB means the box is also mint.

    That's the problem with using non universal acronyms.
    VorpalRyudougtspharmjod
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,923
    Another aspect is the increase in mobile buying (via cell phone or tablet). On eBay, one does not have to look at the description to buy. They can literally see the primary image and purchase. Of course this is incredibly lazy, and in the end causes miscommunication and more issues for buyer/seller relationship.
    VorpalRyu
  • 3stackshs3stackshs Member Posts: 299
    Santa's Workshop available on US Amazon
    preverejuggles7
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    edited September 2015
    Pitfall69 said:
    Question though; if you are worried about a set being damaged by the carrier, why wouldn't you take out insurance? 
    Now that is a darn good question, isn't it? I've had to deal with more than a few issues where the item was damaged by the carrier, and our local USPS usually makes me feel like I just went through the Spanish inquisition whenever I do. However, at least there's an option if the item's been insured. These days, insurance is almost mandatory.

    For large sets that I've traded on Brickset, I quote insurance in the price just to cover myself. In the back of my mind I always believe that the carriers are a little more cautious with insured shipments. Probably not true, but it makes me feel a little better anyway.

    What really ticks me off is when sellers (on eBay or Amazon) ship sets in a plastic shipping bag (not a box) just to shave a couple ounces off the package and a few cents off the shipping cost. To make things laughable, most of these sellers make a big deal in the description of how important their feedback is to them and they want their buyers to be happy. In my view it's very short-sighted trading a few cents for negative feedback, and doing that is an automatic negative from me (unless we've agreed to it beforehand). A person shouldn't be selling Lego sets if they don't understand the proclivities of their buyers. I can tell you that I do look at comments in the feedback before purchasing or bidding on a seller's items, and it's easy to tell from the comments if the buyer is being petty or the seller is someone to avoid at all costs.

    Finally, I can live with slow-to-ship sellers as long as there's communication going on. Things happen and that's life. But what I do expect is that it you're going to sell Lego sets, make sure you're honest in the description of the condition (including the set box) and pack/ship the item reasonably well to protect it. That way if the set is damaged in transit, I know the seller did their part and it was Murphy's fault.

    Sorry for the venting...
    pharmjod
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    A ha!


    kiki180703Pitfall69VorpalRyuGoldchains
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    ^
    However, in all seriousness, it is very difficult to get a common carrier to replace an item that is not missing or actually broken.  You need a fair amount of corroborating evidence (photos of the condition before and after, and demonstrable evidence of the loss of value) to convince them to pay a claim.

    The insurance is really intended for missing or destroyed items.
    BuriedinBricksdougtsVorpalRyuCCC
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    FedEx once requested I bring in the carcass of a DVD player that had been stomped into a plastic jigsaw puzzle.  (Despite having the FedEx driver snap a photo of the demolished box at the time of delivery.)

    They paid it... after two months.
    kiki180703
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,528
    Pitfall69 said:
    @scotty12 , Did you list the Kingdoms set as MISB? Box condition is subjective; I never list any of my sets MISB because of anal buyers such as the one you encountered. There is nothing wrong with being anal about your Lego; I'm a tad obsessive about some things. 
    Yeah I use NISB (New in sealed box) now to stress that while not opened it could have at the very least shelf ware. I also take photos of the box itself and never rely on eBay catalog photos, even as some sort of reference I do not, I want no miscommunication and that really is the name of the game IMO with eBay. If you are clear enough in your photos (not catalog stock photos) and in your description, and even a bit more subjective than many would be in regards to condition (Im always more negative than positive in my descriptions knowing there are those out there that anal about the condition), it should be an easy transaction with good feedback. Though to be fair I have had people come to be asking if the box is mint and I try to give them a good description, but more times than naught the box has a bit of wear here or there. These must be the same people buying whole sets encased in plastic with a rating on them.
    Pitfall69
  • juggles7juggles7 United StatesMember Posts: 452
    Things I've heard from Ebay sellers: "If I had known you wanted it shipped in a box, I wouldn't have accepted your offer." "I didn't see your request to ship it in a box." "I ship stuff in envelopes all the time. Never had any trouble." and my favorite "I don't think I can ship it in a box. After all, you got free shipping."
    kiki180703
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,923
    Add BL sellers to that list. I had a newbie send me parts in a letter envelope. Luckily it made it ok, but with some advice he may not want to do that again.
    SumoLegoPitfall69kiki180703
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    If you're worried about a courier damaging something in the post, use a better box.
  • goshe7goshe7 Columbus, Ohio, USAMember Posts: 516
    ^ Things that should never have to be said.  

    If you are in the game of selling (anything), it is your responsibility to ensure the item arrives to the buyer in the condition sold.  I know I've made mistakes before and had to eat unexpected cost (higher postage, purchase better materials, refund when something went bad despite my good intentions).  If you can't stand to lose the occasional $5-$10 due to your error, you shouldn't be selling.
    pharmjod
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,528
    edited September 2015
    CCC said:
    If you're worried about a courier damaging something in the post, use a better box.
    While I agree that shippers should use new, or at least sturdy boxes. They cannot control carriers such as Fed Ex throwing it over a fence or at a door. I have seen what appeared to be sturdy boxes arrive that looked crushed by a forklift/some other heavy piece of equipment, jumped on, kicked like a soccer ball, or thrown off of a roof two stories, so unless you are prepared to pay for it to ship it in a hard plastic container there is always the chance for postal, or freight carrier... 'mishaps'
    MasterBeefyPitfall69kiki180703Dougout
  • ryjayryjay Member Posts: 1,001
    goshe7 said:
    ^ Things that should never have to be said.  

    If you are in the game of selling (anything), it is your responsibility to ensure the item arrives to the buyer in the condition sold.  I know I've made mistakes before and had to eat unexpected cost (higher postage, purchase better materials, refund when something went bad despite my good intentions).  If you can't stand to lose the occasional $5-$10 due to your error, you shouldn't be selling.
    And if you are in the game of buying anything online, expect things can happen from time to time.   Buyers who cant afford to have anything arrived damaged can also pay to have the items double boxed or have the seller use more dunnage packaging.  

    I'm in the packaging design and manufacturing business, typically we design for a 97-98% success rate.  Obviously, that number can increase or decrease depending upon the cost and importance of an item,  But to ensure a 100% it becomes extremely expensive, way more then the typical cost of the 2 or 3 lost.   My best guess is Lego targets mid 90's .

    So, if you are a seller and 97 of every 100 items arrive safely, keep doing what you do, unless those lost/damaged 3 cost more then the fix.   If you drop to 93 start to look at your packaging and shipping.  
    Pitfall69goshe7kiki180703
  • stevemackstevemack 1567km Drive From BillundMember Posts: 934
    Target 100% in the first place and then you don't have to worry about dropping!
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    I wouldn't be worried about a courier damaging a parcel if the box was adequate 97% of the time.
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    edited September 2015
    ^So you do admit that providing a "better box" won't solve shipping mishaps 100% of the time?

    If Lego themselves can't get a package to me without a minifigure scrapping up a $200 set, then I have no idea why people on this forum RELENTLESSLY suggest it's somehow the sellers fault to appease super picky buyers.
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    edited September 2015
    Okay...so much for the "Bat-Pod's #5004590 gonna go for around $1000 in 6 months" discussion above.

    Insanity!!!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEGO-5004590-Bat-Pod-Ultra-Rare-Giveaway-Batman-DC-batpod-set-only-750-made-/271984935409?hash=item3f5390c1f1
    goshe7
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,453
    Dougout said:
    ^So you do admit that providing a "better box" won't solve shipping mishaps 100% of the time?

    If Lego themselves can't get a package to me without a minifigure scrapping up a $200 set, then I have no idea why people on this forum RELENTLESSLY suggest it's somehow the sellers fault to appease super picky buyers.
    Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! I must be in the minority. If a package is crushed beyond belief; how is this the sellers fault? If the box is sturdy and the cintents are packed properly; I don't see how it is the sellers responsibility. That is why I mentioned taking out insurance. Yes, it is a pain in the arse, but at least you have a leg to stand on if the package is mishandled. 
    SumoLegoBumblepantskiki180703madforLEGOFarmer_JohnMilne44
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    Okay...so much for the "Bat-Pod's #5004590 gonna go for around $1000 in 6 months" discussion above.

    Insanity!!!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/LEGO-5004590-Bat-Pod-Ultra-Rare-Giveaway-Batman-DC-batpod-set-only-750-made-/271984935409?hash=item3f5390c1f1
    This right there is the reason I entered the contest every day.  I don't care much about batman to begin with, but knew there would be big money to be had. Too bad I didn't win 

    sorry, but that is just way too much cash to pass up for this thing, unless you are cash rich or some kind of über batman fanatic 
    pharmjodPitfall69
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    Ditto.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,453
    Looks like the Bat-Pod is worth 7 Fire Brigades ;)
    SumoLegokiki180703
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    Sing it with me!

    ... 6 Helicarriers
    ... 5 Gold C-3POs (still sealed in the package)
    ... bah dah dah dah...
    ... 4 Shinkai Submarines
    ... 3 Super Star Destroyers
    ... 2 Mr. Golds
    and a NISB Taj Mahal...



    That's just about enough of that.
    LegoboyVorpalRyukiki180703Pitfall69preverePenkid11brickupdate
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    edited September 2015
    Dougout said:
    ^So you do admit that providing a "better box" won't solve shipping mishaps 100% of the time?

    If Lego themselves can't get a package to me without a minifigure scrapping up a $200 set, then I have no idea why people on this forum RELENTLESSLY suggest it's somehow the sellers fault to appease super picky buyers.
    Of course. But I don't worry about a courier attacking a box with a pick-axe or using it as a football. The only times I worry about damage in the post is if I knowingly use packaging that is not likely to be adequate to get it there without damage. Which I don't do. For example, I would worry about damage if I sent a set wrapped in a bin bag and nothing else. Which is why I don't do it.

    I don't expect violence towards the packages, but I do expect them to be thrown, piled up (probably not the right way up), pushed back and forward in a van, etc.

    The lego scenario is also easy to fix, with an extra layer of air pillows between the minifig and the set. But presumably when promos are on they are working so fast that they just stick the promo minifig bags in with the sets into a very sturdy outer box without thinking too much about what is going to happen inside the box.
    SumoLego
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    These reasons are precisely why I always send with insurance these days.  The only real question is adding signature confirmation or not, which I normally do for anything above $100.

    I also feel that stating it'll be insured, signature, etc. for bigger things reduces the risk of buyers trying to scam.  It's harder to scam with insurance coverage and face-to-face involvement.  Mail fraud has teeth.
    Farmer_JohnPitfall69kiki180703
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,528
    edited September 2015
    These reasons are precisely why I always send with insurance these days.  The only real question is adding signature confirmation or not, which I normally do for anything above $100.

    I also feel that stating it'll be insured, signature, etc. for bigger things reduces the risk of buyers trying to scam.  It's harder to scam with insurance coverage and face-to-face involvement.  Mail fraud has teeth.
    I believe with eBay, in the US at least, the sig confirmation is now required for items over 750 USD instead of what it used to be (which I think was 230 USD) if you want seller protection to stay intact.



    As for the Bat-pod I have to question the validity of these prices until someone here actually gets there and does manage to sell it to someone else for that kind of money. Otherwise I just chalk it up to those trying to artificially drive up the value of them on eBay.
    What I am having a hard time processing is that even at 1K USD it still is an awful lot for a set the Bat-Pod's size.
    1000 USD for a set that is, what-something like 200-300 pieces, is just not fathomable for me. For around %5 of that you can bl an all black version to put next to the Tumbler.
    Sure, sets like Grand Carousel go for 1500 USD but you feel like you are getting a lot for that cost IMO.

    Again to each their own, just seems like an awful waste of money, especially if LEGO does think more of the set after seeing the demand for it and decides to release a production model.

  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    What I am having a hard time processing is that even at 1K USD it still is an awful lot for a set the Bat-Pod's size.
    1000 USD for a set that is, what-something like 200-300 pieces, is just not fathomable for me. For around %5 of that you can bl an all black version to put next to the Tumbler.
    Sure, sets like Grand Carousel go for 1500 USD but you feel like you are getting a lot for that cost IMO.

    Again to each their own, just seems like an awful waste of money, especially if LEGO does think more of the set after seeing the demand for it and decides to release a production model.

    If you think that's bad, what about the prices on a Mr. Gold CMF? I do like him though and splurged...by picking up a custom copy on eBay for under $20 (which is still high for a Lego minifig in my book).
    SumoLegokiki180703
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    edited September 2015
    Why anyone is surprised at the prices of the bat pod are a mystery to me. Exclusive / nice packaging? Check. Very limited production? Check. Extremely popular license and vechicle from said license? Check. Fans with more money than sense? Check. I have expected it to be $1000 from the beginning so $2,500 is just another step up the ladder. I can understand high prices for this way more than Mr. Gold or any of the comic con / toy fair figs. 
    CCCdougtsRainstorm26kiki180703gmonkey76roxio
  • brumeybrumey AustriaMember Posts: 1,002
    i m wondering if my ninjago will rise in value?
    i have all sets (that are 60,- or more) sealed, sitting in my drawer...
    kiki180703
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,528
    pharmjod said:
    Why anyone is surprised at the prices of the bat pod are a mystery to me. Exclusive / nice packaging? Check. Very limited production? Check. Extremely popular license and vechicle from said license? Check. Fans with more money than sense? Check. I have expected it to be $1000 from the beginning so $2,500 is just another step up the ladder. I can understand high prices for this way more than Mr. Gold or any of the comic con / toy fair figs. 
    Very surprising to me when you can build one via BL (albeit likely in black) for about 50-75 dollars. Plus you are assuming these are real people buying these and not just sellers using another person's account to build up the interest and price in these.
    Again to each their own but it is surprising to me.

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    pharmjod said:
    Why anyone is surprised at the prices of the bat pod are a mystery to me. Exclusive / nice packaging? Check. Very limited production? Check. Extremely popular license and vechicle from said license? Check. Fans with more money than sense? Check. I have expected it to be $1000 from the beginning so $2,500 is just another step up the ladder. I can understand high prices for this way more than Mr. Gold or any of the comic con / toy fair figs. 
    Very surprising to me when you can build one via BL (albeit likely in black) for about 50-75 dollars. Plus you are assuming these are real people buying these and not just sellers using another person's account to build up the interest and price in these.

    And you are assuming that comic book readers / fans / collectors know of bricklink. Come to think of it, I am always surprised how many lego fans either don't know about bricklink or refuse to use it.
    BuriedinBrickspharmjodkiki180703gmonkey76
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    At these prices it would be difficult for any winner not to sell their set even if they had the intention initially of building it. 
    Farmer_Johnkiki180703Draug
  • prevereprevere North of Bellville, East of Heartlake, South of Bricksburg, West of Ninjago City Member Posts: 2,923
    The prices are surprising to me, only in that, it doesn't come with a fig. A tribute to the Batman Fanboys/girls out there.
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404
    Very surprising to me when you can build one via BL (albeit likely in black) for about 50-75 dollars.
    I don't think that's possible anymore, and hasn't been for awhile. There was only one black #92222 (Hero Factory Armor piece) on BL in the past week, and I ended up purchasing that one.

    Now, I do agree with your statement if you substitute the words "lime green" in for "black." ;-)
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    CCC said:

    And you are assuming that comic book readers / fans / collectors know of bricklink. Come to think of it, I am always surprised how many lego fans either don't know about bricklink or refuse to use it.
    I don't find anything surprising about why people would refuse to use Bricklink.
    SumoLegopharmjodkiki180703
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    ^ yeah probably true if you don't want to put in 100 hours learning time :-)
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,528
    edited September 2015
    CCC said:
    ^ yeah probably true if you don't want to put in 100 hours learning time :-)
    Actually it became vastly easier to use BL once you realize you can search by catalog items. To me that greatly simplified BL for me.
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    I'm sure there is a way to search multiple items simultaneously to minimize the number of stores, but I haven't figured that out yet...
  • goshe7goshe7 Columbus, Ohio, USAMember Posts: 516
    ^ Brick Wizard is one way.  I think someone else developed a companion program for cost minimization as well.  

    Another way is to make a WishList on BrickOwl and shop there.  While it doesn't automatically search and optimize for you, it gives you the ability to quickly see results as you manually optimize.
  • ColoradoBricksColoradoBricks Denver, CO, USAMember Posts: 1,678
    @SumLego, Wanted List in BrickList, once you understand them BL is a breeze to use.
    thedingman5kiki180703
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited September 2015
    FBTB put up an interesting dissertation on Lego collecting/reselling (though I think he gets a little obtuse on his view of the latter):

    http://www.fbtb.net/2015/09/13/lego-doesnt-care-about-your-collection/
    SumoLegoTechnicNick
  • MAGNINOMINISUMBRAMAGNINOMINISUMBRA Member Posts: 993
    As someone mentioned earlier - the term MISB (which I DO consider a universal acronym in the collecting world) makes no reference whatsoever to the packaging - it is simply a descriptor of the contents of the packaging and that the packaging is sealed. The term MIMSB does however include a descriptor of the packaging. Any claim back by buyers indicating problems with packaging is literally just taking the piss and trying to secure an item for cheaper than they purchased it for or suffering buyer remorse. If you're expecting mint packaging - perhaps stuck to purchasing AFA graded sets (which is a whole NEW can of worms entirely)!
  • SumoLegoSumoLego New YorkMember Posts: 15,064
    I happen to agree that the AFOL and secondary market is but a blip on the current Lego radar.

    Our community tends to overlook that the vast, vast majority of Lego is purchased on a consumer basis by unknowing parents for kids.  The higher purchase cost is justified in that the bricks will endure for years and can be repurposed.

    I tend to direct people to where the money is being made...
    VorpalRyumonkeyhanger
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,365
    As someone mentioned earlier - the term MISB (which I DO consider a universal acronym in the collecting world) makes no reference whatsoever to the packaging - it is simply a descriptor of the contents of the packaging and that the packaging is sealed. The term MIMSB does however include a descriptor of the packaging. Any claim back by buyers indicating problems with packaging is literally just taking the piss and trying to secure an item for cheaper than they purchased it for or suffering buyer remorse. If you're expecting mint packaging - perhaps stuck to purchasing AFA graded sets (which is a whole NEW can of worms entirely)!
    It is not universal since some people use MISB to mean what you mean by MIMSB.

    When it comes to Lego, you rarely know items are mint in sealed box, you know they are NISB (new), but how do you check they are mint? They are unlike collectibles that are placed in clear packaging that you can see through and display the item in.
    pharmjodVorpalRyuPitfall69madforLEGO
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    @CCC 100% agree. Referring to Lego as MISB is foolish and asking for trouble. NISB is much safer but I prefer just saying NEW Sealed then giving a description of the box in the listing details.
    JamesJTVorpalRyukiki180703
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