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Tags discussion

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  • TheOneVeyronianTheOneVeyronian Member Posts: 1,372
    @plasmodium Currently, they include:

    Me
    @Sir_Gareth‌
    @CapnRex101‌
    @Huw‌
    @Matthew‌

    :-)
  • klatu003klatu003 Member Posts: 729
    @Huw - thanks for letting us tag away for a while ;-) I hope you gained some value from the crowd source experiment along with the headaches. It was fun for me, although I think most of my tags were redacted (and I was trying to be helpful-thoughtful......)
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    edited November 2014
    @Sir_Gareth
    @Matthew‌
    @TheOneVeyronian‌
    @CapnRex101‌
  • icey117icey117 Member Posts: 510
    Sometime in the future when the clean up is done, can one send a TAG-suggestion with list of set suggestions it applies for?
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    No -- you can become a tag contributor and add them yourself :)
  • icey117icey117 Member Posts: 510
    Ah, ok! Let me know if/when you need more help then.
  • GallardoLUGallardoLU Member Posts: 644
    just a thought, and I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement, but for those that do acquire the ability add tags in the future. Is it possible to add a "suggested tag, pop-up/prompt" that will try to inform you of similar existing tags that might be what you are intending.

    example being, Motorcycle, it was pointed out there were several different spellings used for the same thing in the first tag wave. so if a person adding a tag wants to add Motor Cycle, or even Motor Bike. it would find "Motor" in the name and display a list of tags containing "Motor" one of which likely being Motorcycle. this if possible would limit some of the moderation needed for duplicated tags.

    like I said just a thought (I'm no programmer so I've no clue how hard that might be)
  • LegogeekLegogeek Member Posts: 714
    Huw said:

    Agreed. However, it has been an interesting exercise in crowd sourcing, and one which, unfortunately has not worked out quite how I had hoped.

    Having thought about it more since posting the message above I think what I'll do is grant specific users the ability to add tags, and not open the doors to all and sundry Tags added would not be moderated, since these users would be trusted to do a good job, so moderators will then just keep a general eye on things.

    Glad to see the use of tags evolving. When first announced I was fearful that leaving it up to all users would lead to too many (useless) tags.

    I'd like to suggest the inclusion of tags that would include packaging types. Right now you can't search for Polybags or other non-box items and there are no options for packaging when Browsing.

    I don't feel the need to include Box as a tag, but do think it would be useful to include:
    > Polybag
    > Blister (pack)
    > Foil (pack)
    etc...

  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    To me the most useful benefit of something like tags is to be able to have many different ways to classify something that helps someone find something. My suggestion would be not to show tags by default in the right bar but make them a tab at the bottom so that people can go look at what is there and if something didn't come up when they searched they could go to that set and see why by noting that what they searched didn't result in that set coming out and notifying a moderator to decide if it needs to be added. It seems like with all of the web crawling search terms it would be best to add as much as you can that is relevant.

    So "motorcycle" "cycle" "motor" "bike" etc are all valid if there is a motorcycle in the set instead of trying to decide on a pre-set list of terms to use and fixing them all to only use that term. This would fix the "Gresh" issue as it would be fine to have it as a tag also. Then to make the search easier the default search would search everything but add an additional search selection in the drop down (or a checkbox or something) for title only so if you want helicopter sets that actually have helicopter in the title and not any that have anything to do with a helicopter you can find them easier.
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    edited November 2014
    I've submitted a correction to a set, its now been reviewed and the tags are visible, but the tags are still wrong (a diesel train tagged as electric). What do I do now submit another correction via the form?
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Administrator Posts: 6,756
    curious said:

    I've submitted a correction to a set, its now been reviewed and the tags are visible, but the tags are still wrong (a diesel train tagged as electric). What do I do now submit another correction via the form?

    If you post details in this thread I'm sure someone will sort it.
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    http://brickset.com/sets/7735-1/Freight-Train-Set

    This is tagged as electric. I'm fairly sure its a diesel. All other lego electric trains have a pantograph, as you can see in all the other sets with the tag. The loco looks like a small shunting diesel. I am not a train expert though so could be wrong.
  • plasmodiumplasmodium Member Posts: 1,956
    curious said:

    http://brickset.com/sets/7735-1/Freight-Train-Set

    This is tagged as electric. I'm fairly sure its a diesel. All other lego electric trains have a pantograph, as you can see in all the other sets with the tag. The loco looks like a small shunting diesel. I am not a train expert though so could be wrong.

    Is it not "electric" as in it has a 12v motor?
    andhe
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    edited November 2014
    plasmodium said:

    curious said:

    http://brickset.com/sets/7735-1/Freight-Train-Set

    This is tagged as electric. I'm fairly sure its a diesel. All other lego electric trains have a pantograph, as you can see in all the other sets with the tag. The loco looks like a small shunting diesel. I am not a train expert though so could be wrong.

    Is it not "electric" as in it has a 12v motor?
    No. There are 3 tags, "Steam Locomotive", "Diesel Locomotive", and "Electric Locomotive". These describe the type of real-world train being modelled. If you look at the electric locomotive tag you can see that its all sets with a pantograph and modelling an electric train, and has many sets that are nothing to do with 12V.
    plasmodium
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    We could probably use some additional tags for push-along or powered.
  • LegogeekLegogeek Member Posts: 714
    curious said:

    plasmodium said:

    curious said:

    http://brickset.com/sets/7735-1/Freight-Train-Set

    This is tagged as electric. I'm fairly sure its a diesel. All other lego electric trains have a pantograph, as you can see in all the other sets with the tag. The loco looks like a small shunting diesel. I am not a train expert though so could be wrong.

    Is it not "electric" as in it has a 12v motor?
    No. There are 3 tags, "Steam Locomotive", "Diesel Locomotive", and "Electric Locomotive". These describe the type of real-world train being modelled. If you look at the electric locomotive tag you can see that its all sets with a pantograph and modelling an electric train, and has many sets that are nothing to do with 12V.
    That's one of the problems with tags, different peoples interpretations.

    Maybe those type of tags need to be worded differently:
    Locomotive, Electric
    Locomotive, Diesel
    Locomotive, Steam

    Something different for power source...
    Motor, 9 volt
    Motor, 12 volt
    Etc
    plasmodium
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    I also wonder if we need a way to group tags beyond similar naming. Like a tag group "Locomotive" that shows you all the locomotive tags.
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    edited November 2014
    The ability to tag tags would probably work like categories on wikipedia?
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    I've been sorting out all the trains tags today for System and Duplo sets. I've corrected the diesel/electric issue you note. They won't be perfect and I welcome any comments, and I tend to agree with you about the naming convention you suggest.

    Train, freight
    Train, passenger

    would also be logical.

    Tag groups is something we may need to look at at some point, otherwise sets could end up with too many. Maybe it could be done automatically if tags are formatted like this, with a comma separating the more generic term from the specific one. I'll give it some thought...
  • mikelenniummikelennium Member Posts: 4
    How is it going with the tagging? Do you need some help? If you do so, I surely would like to help sort things out (especially the Town section)
  • TarDomoTarDomo Member Posts: 515
    The tag idea is great and helps seaching. By the way, are the LSW qubes from SDCC in the database? I wasn´t able to find them with SDCC tag.
  • curiouscurious Member Posts: 36
    http://brickset.com/sets/7898-1/Cargo-Train-Deluxe

    Why does this have 2 forklift tags? Its also picked up a diesel tag along with

    http://brickset.com/sets/7939-1/Cargo-Train

    Both of these have pantographs which is why they have the electric loco tag, not sure where they've picked up diesel from.
  • LegogeekLegogeek Member Posts: 714
    Since we're on the topic of Trains, I'd like to make another observation and random remarks....

    Train, or Trains seems to be very messed up.

    A search for Train will reveal the Trains (Theme) in the drop-down menu.
    There is also a Train (Tag), but nothing is listed if you select it.

    Random examples...

    Hogwarts Express has various incarnations. They are all trains. There seem to be various sub-theme for trains within various themes, but the sub-theme is not all-inclusive, and does not exist within the Harry Potter theme. Also Hogwarts Express is not tagged as a train or trains (because there is no simple "train" tag).

    Logically, I would think that all trains should show up under an all inclusive sub-theme of trains, or there should be a tag for trains.

    Same goes for 31015-1: Emerald Express.

    There are too many ways to look for various trains, but no one single way.

    Do I make any sense?
    TarDomo
  • ChgoMattChgoMatt Member Posts: 107
    #70812 deserves an OCTAN tag. TASTY MEAT!
  • TarDomoTarDomo Member Posts: 515
    edited December 2014
    Lothal tag to TIE Advanced Prototype
  • binaryeyebinaryeye Member Posts: 1,831
    One of the Series 4 Mixels tribes is "Orbitons" (see here) but the tag is "Orbitronz" (see here) .
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    Thanks, now sorted.
  • carabinocarabino Member Posts: 1
    While reading http://brickset.com/article/12871/classic-lego-sets-airports-planes-and-air-travel-part-1 I ended up seeking out http://brickset.com/sets/6368-1 , originally based on the name "Commuter Jet".

    I couldn't find it, even after ending up looking at the Aircraft tag based on comments.  I noticed when looking it up directly by set# that the Aircraft tag is not on it.
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    Tagging is nowhere near complete but we have been through and checked all that were added back in November now. The challenge now is for me to work out how to enable people to add them again without it getting in a mess and without creating a administrative overhead.

    Probably I will invite people to apply to be able to add them and vet them on application, to try and keep kids away :-)
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    edited February 2015
    Chris and I have been through all the tags that were added in November and have sorted them out. Now I'd like to invite people to start adding them again but rather than it being a free for all I've created two new roles: tag contributor and tag moderator.

    - Contributors can add them, and delete their own
    - Moderators can add, delete and manage them.

    If you'd like to be a tag contributor please drop me a PM with your Brickset username and explain briefly why you'd like to do it and what you're an expert in.  I don't expect I'll refuse anyone who asks but the last bit is just to keep some sort of control on who's adding them to avoid it getting in a mess again.

    Chris, myself and a couple of others are moderating but if it become arduous I'll ask for volunteers for that role too.

    I look forward to receiving your applications!

  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    Might be a good idea before letting loose the tag contributors to come up with a basic set of rules for the contributors to add according to and the moderators to manage against. (Also would be willing to help with moderation to help alleviate the work all you admin do if you get to the point of wanting moderation help.)

    Things like:
    -use singular nouns for basic/generic items (train not trains, plane on planes) For consistency more than search ability assuming a 'plane' search would find tags of 'planes' just makes it nicer if the terms used are consistent.

    -addressing some of the Power (12v, PF) and locomotive type concerns in this thread

    -using single terms that will actually provide results and not multi-term strings that someone might not know to search for, assuming a full term needs to match (the "locomotive, diesel" etc example would be one that shouldn't be multiple words if it wont find it without both. Plus it should already have 'train' as a tag so just 'diesel' would be fine. And '12V' '9V' 'Power Functions' should suffice for powered options instead of a 'category, type' tag like 'motor, 9V')

    -whether proper names of things in the set or related to the set should be included (i think there was discussion on having bionicle names in the tag even though the set was named with it
    BumblepantsLegogeek
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    Yes, that will indeed be needed. One other issue we had was how generic should tags be? e.g. people tagged helicopters with helicopter and aircraft. Personally I think the latter is superfluous and should be used only for fixed wing craft. Aeroplane, I would say, is considered a 'childish' name in the UK so fixed wings should be tagged aircraft but not helicopters.

    'Watercraft' is another one, and where to draw the line between ship and boat is still a mystery...

    Taking it to extremes, we don't want to have a tag 'vehicle' to cover every moving thing, I would suggest.

    Good point about the train tags. We can make changes globally to them they could be changed easily enough.
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    I definitely don't thing "vehicle" should be a tag on anything.  Definitely too generic and would come up with too many unrelated results.  You bring up another good point probably unintentionally, but there are differences in terms as well for different parts of the world.  Aeroplane and Airplane both correct but what someone uses to search would affect the outcome and one should probably be selected.

    I disagree about Aircraft for planes and not helicopters.  They are in fact both aircraft (helicopter/plane) just as watercraft covers ship/boat.  These are the type of things that need to be laid out a head of time and should also be in a Sticky/FAQ for people to know how to better search.

    I think having both tags, even though superfluous, isn't a bad idea.  You could have aircraft with secondary terms helicopter, aeroplane, blimp, balloon etc and watercraft with secondary terms boat, ship, etc.

    Or if not then just designate terms up front fixed wing = aeroplane, rotor = helicopter, anything else = aircraft.   Using the generalized term as the catch all for the rest.

    It only ends up being confusing if there is no manual.  If there are no guidlines then you get opinions from all sorts of angles that things like pirate ships are sail boats and not ships in the same class as the Maersk cargo ship etc.  People that want to search for "ship" and have the 2 results they feel fit it are just going to have to live with the fact that LEGO puts out too many sets that fit the bill for them to get easy searches =)
    bluemooserocao
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    It's a minefield, isn't it!
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    Very much so =)
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,477
    Just noticed the tag 'Flagship Set' which is used on a load of Technic sets and the Imperial flagship...what is meant by Flagship set and how are tag moderators defining them? Should there not essentially be a "Flagship Set" for every theme or is this an accepted term that I've just not encountered before?
  • bluemoosebluemoose Member Posts: 1,716
    edited March 2015
    graphite said:
    ...

    I disagree about Aircraft for planes and not helicopters.  
    ...
    Agreed; that was what I was trying to do when the tagging was first introduced. 'Aircraft' as the technical term for the generic type, and then specific terms for different types (including aeroplane, which is the technically correct term for a fixed-wing, heavier than air aircraft) :-)
    rocao
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Member Posts: 2,728
    Since we are on the tags discussion. Where on earth has the Boston Redsox minifigure gone?
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,116
    The problem with the word aeroplane is, "In the United States and Canada, the term "airplane" is used for powered fixed-wing aircraft. In the United Kingdom and most of the Commonwealth, the term "aeroplane" is usually applied to these aircraft."

    We certainly don't want both tags.

    As for "Flagship Set", its intended use is for the biggest and best Technic set of the year, as in "Over the years, the term "flagship" has been borrowed in metaphorical form by industries such as broadcasting, automobiles, cell phones, education, national airlines, breweries and retailing to refer to their highest profile or most expensive products and outlets." rather than its literal meaning so I will remove it from the pirate ship.

    (Both quotes from Wikipedia)
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,477
    I figured it was probably something like that, but the Imperial Flagship confused me. 

    Regarding the "aeroplane/airplain" debacle, is there any way you can group tags and he de them under a general header, in this example have the tag that shows as plane but searching for "aeroplane" or "airplane" still link to the same tag, or is that going to far.

    It's one that I'm fairly unlikely to search myself, but I would be more likely to search helicopter or plane than aircraft. I get that you want to keep the number of tags down to keep the clutter down but in terms of usability more tags generally makes searching easier - until things get to the silly point to of having parts listed. Perhaps a tags tab would be better than having them to the side of the page to keep the clutter down?

    like you said before Huw, it is a bit of a minefield!
  • GalactusGalactus Member Posts: 260
    edited March 2015
    I think it's important to keep in mind the reason for tagging. Is it to categorise, then I'd vote for no similar/superfluous tags. If it is to make searching for specific 'categories' more easy, then I'd use multiple tags for the same thing. In the latter situation people from all over the world can use the search engine to find the sets with aircraft/aeroplane/airship/plane/etc in them.
    Also, if searching for 'plane' will bring up results with the tag 'planes' (partial searching), using only tags in their plural for will result in more/better searchable 'categories'.
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,477
    edited March 2015
    ^ The original news article about tags promoted them as an additional search tool - in such a case similar multiple tags are often useful, but as I said before having a way to have them hidden under an umbrella term tag would help keep the page tidy but still allow a good functionality.
  • GalactusGalactus Member Posts: 260
    ^ in that case I see no problem in (arbitrarily) choosing one tag over the other(s) as an umbrella.
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu Member Posts: 2,318
    I know I'm fairly new to the forums, & for that matter Brickset in general, but I would be willing to offer my services. I'm offering just a couple of my suggestions here for the moment, if you guys like what I have to say, we can take it from there, else I can bow out of the discussion.

    One thing that stands out, right off the bat, is the special event promotional Microfighters... While all the SW Microfighters are categorised as Microfighters, there is one set I know is not listed, the Marvel set Rocket Raccoon's Warbird #COMCON034. In the GotG movie, Rocket's ship is a more heavily armed, but fractionally smaller version of Quill's M-ship, the Milano. Comparing the Warbird to the SW Microfighters & the Milano from set #76021, I think that most would agree that the Warbird fits the criteria of a Microfighter.

    Of the CMFs, the tags for these should be able to be kept to five tags or less. Below is a small sample of how I'd tag the CMFs, if anyone wants, I can give further explanation;

    Aztec Warrior (8831-2) - Historical, Male, South America, Warrior

    Cowgirl (8833-4) - Female, Historical, Wild West

    Hard Hat Emmet (71004-3) - Construction, Male

    Marsha (71004-16) - Female, Mythical, Royalty

    Ocean King (8831-5) - Classical, Male, Mythical, Royalty

    Pharaoh (8684-16) - Classical, Egypt, Male, Royalty

    Pilot (8803-2) - Aviation, Historical, Male

    Policeman (71000-6) - Law Enforcement, Male

    Sheriff (71008-2) - Historical, Law Enforcement, Male, Wild West

    Space Miner (71007-6) - Male, Mining, Space

    Wild West Wildstyle (71004-4) - Female, Wild West
    xiahna
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu Member Posts: 2,318
    Oops!, left off Historical on the Pharaoh (8684-16)
    xiahna
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,477
    I'd quite like to see tags added for moulded animal pieces, I know you can search by part number, but when you get multiple parts, colours and prints for the same type of animal just being able to search Bear or Pig might make an easier way of finding relevant sets.
    VorpalRyuBumblepantssnowhitie
  • VorpalRyuVorpalRyu Member Posts: 2,318
    @Shib, sounds like a great idea, especially if there are parts used for multiple builds...
    xiahna
  • ShibShib Member Posts: 5,477
    @Huw - if you thought the animal tags idea was worthwhile I'd be more than happy to help out with that.
  • jerzeegjerzeeg Member Posts: 5
    Hi guys, I would like to ask you for adding tag "Wings of Fire" to relevant Chima sets, like i.e. 70222. (shown on the box backside - http://img3.oo.com.au/prod/TY70222/1b.jpg )
    I would do that by myself, but it seems I have no ability to. :)
  • jerzeegjerzeeg Member Posts: 5
    Guys, is this thread still alive ? :)
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