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LEGO HO Scale 1:87 Cars/Trucks

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  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    When it comes to fakes... sometimes some things are not what they appear.... such as putting stickers or water slide decals onto LEGO items, that were meant for other items.  I found a few of these, and display them in my chapter on collectors guide chapter on fake items....

    In my years of research, I've found several fakes that even made it to online LEGO databases... such as this SPEDITION MEIER truck sticker on the 257 Bedford Delivery Truck... which was made for another company's toy truck... but not for LEGO....


    bobabricks
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    Here's another labeled LEGO 1:87 #257 Delivery van that was long thought to be real... but the overlap on the label always made me suspicious... until I found out why....



    It never fit the 1:87 side of truck correctly, and the reason is it's a sticker from a much larger Wiking Truck!


    bobabricks
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    Now here's another one that was also suspicious.  However it is not a sticker, but a water slide decal, and after researching it, the date of this Libby's product dates to the early 1960s, which coincides with the date of the truck, thus giving more legitimacy to this version....  



    Libbys Milk was sold in Europe in the 1960s, but not later.

  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    And here we have a verifiable rarity... an Absalon #257 Delivery Truck of Odense Denmark, there are at least a dozen or two of these known, and they can command up to 1000 Euros each.


  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited February 2015
    To make it even more complicated these blue #257 Bedford Deliver Vans usually come with a red undercarriage (for whatever reason), and a yellow cab.

    The trucks usually say "LEGO Transport" on the sides (those of Norway have no writing)... but then we heave these interesting variations which again is pure LEGO Mayhem... with white cab, and either white or blue undercarriage... also very  valuable....




    Or with blue cab.... and gold lettering...



    The extremely complex and very much sought after and collectible 1:87 cars and trucks are part of a very broad range of rare and valuable LEGO items of very high quality.  To attempt buying them at auction without a reference guide, can lead to costly mistakes because of unscrupulous sellers and uninformed buyers.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    Almost forgot.... here's what 99% of the 1955-64 Bedford Deliver Truck usually looks like.... with a yellow cab, blue trailer, and red undercarriage.   The Lettering on the side can be either in gold, or a darker color.  And also... there are 2 opening deliver doors on the back of the truck that are often notorious for their absence.  These trucks can be purchased relatively cheaply when those doors are missing.  And one last thing about these trucks... they are always made of Cellulose Acetate... so there is almost always warping to the trucks, which is why the trailer often looks like it sags in the middle.




  • bobabricksbobabricks Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 1,840
    @Istokg Do you yourself own any of these cars? If so, what is your rarest?
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited February 2015
    Nope... not one... I used to have 20.... but never any of the rare ones.... those always went to the Europeans with deep pockets.... and that didn't include me...   :/  Also let me say that I don't have some fabulous collection of rare parts... I just have a lot of LEGO friends with collections of rare parts!  My collection is mainly rare part images, from worldwide collectors, and from the Billund Archives.
    bobabricks
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    Well since I've covered just about all the varieties of the #257 Bedford Deliver Van, I might as well finish it out with the rarest one of all.... a prototype that was sold at auction by TLG a few years ago.

    This was a prototype for the Danny Dairy Company, which may have later changed to Danone.  This prototype had  "Leche Danny Leite" (Spanish and Portuguese for Milk) on one side, and "Milk Danny Lait" (English and French) on the other side...   This prototype is very rare, and so far I have seen only one of these, making it worth about 5000-7000 Euros....



  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    For LEGO 1:87 collectors there is one hardcover book that talks about them, and that is Richard Hausmann's German language book on 1:87 vehicles.  His book (I've never owned a copy, I did my research on my own) has been out in 4 versions since 2003, and recent versions command $80 or more at auction....


  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited February 2015
    And of course there's my own Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide computer desktop 2800 page download, which covers not only over 100 pages with hundreds of 1:87 vehicle images, but also LEGO sets, parts, retailer items, histories, catalogs, display models, commercials, ads, prototypes, promotional sets, etc.  Here's the Table of Contents heading to my 73 chapter guide... also a 1:87 diarama...



    And of course all future updates are free...  :)
  • cody6268cody6268 Member Posts: 280
    Was that Falck version of the wrecker special or something? I've never seen one before. The only ones I've seen are unmarked.


    I myself have a few on my list, as I'm kind of in a dark age, and have switched to my other hobby, diecast model collecting.

    I think these Lego trucks look great, and are pretty well detailed. I find $15 a piece for the trucks relatively expensive, but it isn't that bad, given they are definitely not as common as an English Matchbox.Plus, for most of my 20-30 English made Matchboxes, I paid around a dollar a piece for, when some of those are worth around $20, as they do not even have a scrape on them.

  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    @cody6268 Good eye!   I had almost forgotten about that one!

    My Dutch collector friend Jeroen, was trying his hand at making fake LEGO items, and my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide chapter on LEGO fakes shows some of his handiwork... including the Esso Oil Drums and stickers.

    While he was doing that he produced this set...



    ... a fake 303 Falck LEGO Set  (Falck is an emergency services company in Scandinavia that does emergency road service, ambulance service, and in some places firemen servics).

    The stickers on the #656 Mercedes Tow Truck were from another 1:87 HO scale model car system, TECHNO I believe.   And I show all of this in my Fake LEGO chapter.



    So in both my chapters on LEGO Fake/Counterfeit items and the chapter on 1:87 Cars/Trucks I show this model with stickers from another toy.   But then TLG goes and does something to confound and muddle then entire discussion....

    A few years ago during one of the "Collections Cleanout Sale".... TLG puts this prototype set up for auction (found in my collectors guide chapter on LEGO prototypes).  The parts are a muddle of 1960s and 1970s elements (trees and vehicles are 1960s), flags and door are 1970s).  This prototype set was never put into production, partly because the vehicles were already retired by 1968.   So this prototype appears to be more of a pipe dream than something that TLG would actually make.  But it did come from their LEGO collections, and went up for auction.




     So there is a 1:87 vehicle, Tanker Truck and Fire Engine out there with real LEGO (?) decals, a single set of each all out on the secondary market.  Now you understand why I frequently use the term "LEGO Mayhem" to describe the collectibility of old LEGO items!!   :/

    It's entire scenario's like the Falck story that helps answer people's questions about why my collectors guide is so big!!   :)
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    As seen in previous posts here, the 1:87 LEGO cars were sold in cardboard boxes of 5 in Europe, from TLG to LEGO retailers.

    In the USA and Canada, the scenario was different.  The retailers had to place a very large order of 72 vehicles (selling for 75 cents each at the time). That was a lot of cars for a LEGO retailer to have to purchase.  And the 1:87 cars were always the variety that came in the plastic garages (1962-66, models #261-#268), the cardboard box variety of 1965-67 (#661-#668) were never sold by Samsonite in USA or Canada.

    After the end of the Town Plan System in 1966, Samsonite got rid of their huge remaining inventory by selling them via Department Store Mail Order.

    Here is a very rare box of 6 of these ordered via this route.  These were apparently shipped directly to the customer from Samsonite (Loveland Colorado and Stratford Ontario for Canada).... (Note: the paper banderoles around these garages were removed by the customer long ago.)



    Here is the box as shipped by Samsonite (Loveland Colorado to the customer)... showing a Christmas 1966 delivery date...




    Images: courtesy of my friend Chris of Connecticut.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    One of the rarest of all LEGO sets was the 1969 introduced Sears Mail Order Catalog #842 Town Plan set.  This set, which came with a tri-fold unique Town Plan board, also came with 3 of the LEGO 1:87 cars in garages.  In this 1969 Sears catalog image we see the built town with 3 cars, and can see one of the garages built into the building on the left.



    This (USA Samsonite LEGO exclusive) Sears Mail-Order exclusive set came in a brown cardboard mailing box, and was one of the sets for getting rid of excess old stock inventory, such as the 1:87 vehicles.  It's mainly thru the instructions sheet that we are even aware that this very set number was #842.


    From my LEGO Collectors Guide - Chapter 3 - LEGO Town Plans & Town Plan Boards.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited March 2015
    My friend Daniel from Sweden posted an image on Flickr that really pains me to look at.  For every 1:87 vehicle from the 1955-70 era that has survived intact... there's probably 10 that were thrown away or damaged beyond usefulness.   This helps explain why these cars/trucks are so expensive and valuable on the secondary market.

    Like I said... this junkyard is painful to look at....   :'(




    Intact... these would be worth thousands!!
  • bobabricksbobabricks Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 1,840
    Some of them don't look that bad...
  • cody6268cody6268 Member Posts: 280
    Some of them don't look that bad to me, either.  As I've always said, Superglue fixes nearly everything.  I once had a Matchbox no. 29 fire truck that had it's roof beacon broken off and rattling inside.   Took it apart, grabbed the beacon, and glued the beacon back to the window glass, of which it was molded as a part of.  Given the prices of these, I wouldn't mind buying one with a door missing, or other subtle issue just to save money.  
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited March 2015
    Another new (old) LEGO item....   :)

    It has been known for many years that the first LEGO promotional item was a 1955 Bedford truck Esso Tanker given away at Danish Esso Service Stations with a petrol fill-up.   Here are some images of that box and truck...





    Well Esso Service Stations were also found in Norway.... where LEGO sales were started in 1953, but due to toy import restrictions, LEGO had to be produced by a Norwegian plastics maker (Svein Strømber & Co.) under the licensed subsidiary A/S Norske LEGIO.

    This past week I found out that there was also a Norwegian variation to the Esso Service Station giveaways for petrol fill-ups circa 1955-56.  Two different sources sent me images about 3 days apart about this interesting variation to the Danish giveaway...

    Here is the Norwegian box...



    And here is a (poor) image of an image of the box from a different angle...



    The writing on one side of the box in Norwegian...

    " Her har du " Småen " blant Esso bilene - de morsomste og solideste
    servicebilene som gutter samler på". A/S Norsk Legio, Oslo.  

    " Here is 'The little one' among the Esso trucks - the most exciting and
    solid service trucks that boys collect."

    Here is a Norwegian 1250 Esso Service Truck.  These were produced early on with brass wheels, and like the Danish giveaways (which had chrome wheels)... there was no glass in the windows of the truck like there were in regular LEGO versions of this Bedford truck.



    These trucks alone (only in Norway did the decal say just "ESSO") are worth about 500 Euros each... with the promotional box included, I would value it well over 1000 Euros!

    Another piece in the puzzle of the mystery/history/mayhem of LEGO to add to my collectors guide....  :p



  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    My German collector friend Lothar always finds very rare and unique LEGO items.  Just recently he got a 1:87 scale 1960s #601 Morris Marina car in black, a color it was not previously known in.

    Ironically even though the Morris Marina was a UK car, this particular shortlived model was only sold from 1966-67 in continental Europe.

    A black Fiat (only about 1/2 dozen known) sold for 3235 Euros on Ebay about 4 years ago.  So the value of this (so far unique) Morris Marina is worth a lot more than that.

    Also what makes this more interesting is the red bottom of the undercarriage.  Only a few 1:87 LEGO vehicles are known to have undercarriages in red, but in this case it makes it doubly rare.

    Unless more are found, I would estimate a value of at least 8,000 Euros for this very rare beauty!    :o



    Another rarity for my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide.....  :)
  • TechnicNickTechnicNick Berkshire, UKMember Posts: 277
    That's a Morris / Austin 1100 or 1300, popular in the '60s. The Marina was a bit larger and was made from about 1971, I think.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    Hmmmm..... interesting.... I'm not a real car buff.... and the car/box say.....







    They don't mention Marina on the box or bottom of vehicle.....

    But the catalogs do mention "Marina".... as this 1966 German LEGO catalog mentions as its' first entry under the image of cars/trucks.....

    http://www.peeron.com/catalogs/1966/medium/14/


  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    That's not to say that TLG always got it right.... when you look at the back of the different LEGO 1:87 car/bus boxes of 1965-67, you start seeing some odd things with the Citroen and Fiat as mentioned on the different boxes.  They list different models, which I've been told look the same.....



    The Jaguar "E" listed first among some of these boxes instead of the Morris 1100, is due to the fact that TLG was going to introduce the Jaguar (a UK LEGO 1:87 car) to continental Europe in 1965, but instead opted for the Morris 1100 instead in 1966.  Those few existing Jaguar boxes  are very rare!!!
  • TigerMothTigerMoth Member Posts: 2,343
    That's a Morris / Austin 1100 or 1300, popular in the '60s. The Marina was a bit larger and was made from about 1971, I think.
    It IS what somebody in the UK would call an 1100 or 1300.

    Due to favourable import tax rates, BMC cars were popular in Denmark. When introduced to Denmark six months later, it was called the Marina.

    The confusion arises because, nine years later, the name was reused for a different car in the UK.

    So the LEGO version is a Marina because it's not in a British catalogue.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    @TigerMoth thanks for that bit of history of the Morris!  You and @TechnicNick have discovered one of the little anomalies that makes the collecting and studying of early LEGO like putting together a puzzle... one piece at a time.  

    The different LEGO 1:87 cars in plastic garages were introduced in Europe starting in late 1961, in 8 different models (261-268).  Then in 1963 the 670 Jaguar and 671 Vauxhall Victor  Estate in plastic garages were added to the Britain/Ireland/Australia catalogs only.



    In May 1965 most European countries eliminated the 261-268 cars in garages for cheaper cars in cardboard boxes, and their numbers changed to 661-668.  In Britain all the individual cars were discontinued (none sold in cardboard boxes).

    Back in continental Europe in May 1965 there were some additional cars added to the older ones still in production (now in cardboard instead of plastic garages).... The 603 Citroen, the 605 Fiat and 607 VW Samba Bus were added to the mix, as seen in this May 1965 German catalog page....



    So in 1965 the continental European catalogs added a French (Citroen) and Italian (Fiat) car to their assortment.  They were also contemplating adding a British car as well... but that desicion appears to have been delayed.  At first it looked like the (UK/Ireland/Australia only) Jaguar (670), but without the garage was going to be the candidate (as 601 in a cardboard box).  This decision was changed for some unknown reason, and in the 1965 continental European catalogs, no 601 car entry was found.

    TLG decided instead to make a Morris 1100 car as the British 601 car in a cardboard garage, and that was introduced the following year (1966)... in all continental EU catalogs.

    However, during the 1965 period when the decision for the UK car in a cardboard box was still being decided.... some 601 Jaguars were produced in a cardboard box.  These are extremely rare, since fewer than a dozen are known.  Since the Jaguar came mainly in 3 colors for the British market (common white, scarce red, and very rare black)... many of the owners of the rare 601 Jaguar boxes did a switcheroo... and put the very rare (1000 Euros or more) black Jaguar into the even rarer 601 Jaguar boxes.  This switching around of rare items in unsealed boxes is not uncommon for old LEGO sets and parts packs, and is an acceptable part of collecting old LEGO (maximizing value).

    It appears that these 601 prototype Jaguar boxes with the identical Jaguars as sold earlier in UK/Ireland/Australia, got into circulation (as again is often the case)... and are very highly sought after by old LEGO collectors....  A black boxed one could easily fetch 2000-4000 Euros (depending on condition).



    But buyers of these very rare 601 Jaguars should be VERY careful.... this box is one of the most common counterfeit boxes among old LEGO items.

    By 1966 the decision was made to instead use the 601 Morris 1100 (Marina), and the rest is history.

    At 65 pages, my Unofficial LEGO Set/Parts Collectors Guide chapter (my largest of 73 chapters) on all the 1:87 cars/trucks is a must for all serious collectors of these rare and historic LEGO items, probably the most popular among all old LEGO.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    For some reason black seems to be a VERY RARE color for some of the 1:87 cars in great condition...

    In black... the 670 Jaguar, 671 Vauxhall Victor Estate, 605 Fiat (fewer than a dozen known), 601 Jaguar in box (fewer than a dozen boxes known), 601 Morris, (one known) would problably fetch about 1000-8000 Euros, depending on the model.

    The 603 Citroen has never been found in black (at least one was later painted black, but is a fake paint job).  If an original black one were found (with or without unsealable cardboard box) it would probably fetch about 8000 Euros... on a good day even more.
  • TechnicNickTechnicNick Berkshire, UKMember Posts: 277
    @Istokg, I would love a 603 Citroen; probably not a black one though - that costs more than a real one did!
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    @TechnicNick, hehehe.... I too would like one in any color.

    I have to backpedal for a moment.... there is indeed an (unpainted) original black Citroen out there in a German collection, but I don't yet have a photo of it.  It is the only one known.   Therefore I believe that all the 1:87 LEGO cars came in black!

    Here are the Mercedes 220S ( #264 in plastic garage - 1961-64, #664 in cardboard box - 1965-67.  And it shows many of the colors it comes in, including black.



  • bobabricksbobabricks Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 1,840
    I just purchased my first HO car. It's the black Mercedes 220S in amazing condition with all the print and glass for $50. I feel like this is the start of something dangerous... And it's all your fault Gary! ;)
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    @bobabricks  I will take full responsibility for you enjoying it!  :)   Did it come with a clear plastic garage?  If not, you can upgrade to a larger one for it.

    It's amazing how affordable the scarcer parts are for these garages....
    http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemInv.asp?S=236-3

    That's cuz everyone has Minifig Fever, but shhhhh don't tell anyone how inexpensive these older parts are....  :o
    bobabricks
  • bobabricksbobabricks Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 1,840
    Yeah, I'm probably going to get the whole kit and caboodle now... and then another car... and then everything for that car and so on and so on. ;)
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited July 2015
    @bobabricks .... you may need one of these.... a display model from a 1958 continental European LEGO Retailer Catalog.... :)



    Love all the oval "waterslide" decals of the LEGO "dogbone" logo over each garage door!

    Here's a closeup of an actual one of these decals.... very rare....


  • bobabricksbobabricks Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 1,840
    Seeing that you don't even have a real picture of this, I'm gonna go ahead and say this may be a bit out of my price range ;)
  • LusiferSamLusiferSam MontanaMember Posts: 509
    I been organizing my 1:87 vehicles for the past couple of weekends, and realized I have major issue.  I have no idea how to tell ABS vehicles from CA ones.  With bricks I can tell either by the color (ie red) or drop testing them.  Because the 1:87 vehicle are mostly paint I can't tell by the color and don't really want to be dropping them to listen for a minor different in sound.  Anybody have any ideas on this? 
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,150
    edited November 2015
    @LusiferSam the only easy 1:87 items to tell apart are the Bedford Trucks, the 258 VW Vans and 259 VW Pickups.  These seem to be the only items that I have seen warping on them.  

    Among the cars, besides the VW Beetles, most of them are ABS.  This is because the other cars started production in 1962... and ABS production started that year.  So most of the 262-268 and all the 601-668 cars are made of ABS.  I can honestly say I don't remember seeing any warping on the LEGO cars.... even the 260/261 VW Beetles produced from 1957-62.

    The Bedford trucks will show warping... mainly sagging in the middle.  Plus those CA ones that are red are easy enough to differentiate from the ABS versions.

    Here is an example of a pair of 258 VW Vans that shows some warping, mainly in the roof...


    Since the VW Buses, Vans and Pickups are made of colored plastic (not painted)... you can spot CA on the red vehicles....


    Here we see the back two buses are of the 1953-61 type without glass are CA, and among the 6 in front, the van on the far left and pickup on the far right are CA.  The pickup flatbed often has a very slight curve to the sides on CA models.  Since the Samba Buses (in the front middle) were introduced in 1965, they will always be ABS.

    But as for the other 1:87 cars.... it's virtually impossible to differentiate a CA from an ABS model, since warping is very minimal, if at all.  The same can be said for the differences between the 261-268 cars (1962-65) and 661-668 (1965-67).  Here are the undercarriage of all the 1:87 cars and buses.... only the 661 VW Beetle can be differentiated from the earlier 260/261 VW Beetle.... since the 661 is the shorter VW 1200 model.



    The bottom double image is the 661 VW 1200 Beetle... the lower one is the continental European version, while the upper one (greater curve to the rear bumper on the left) is the UK version (only found in later UK 810 Town Plan sets, while continental ones were sold individually as well).

    Images from my Unofficial LEGO Sets/Parts Collectors Guide.

  • LusiferSamLusiferSam MontanaMember Posts: 509
    Thanks @Istokg

    I guess I was just have a memory lapse.   I was think that change from CA to ABS started in '64, not '62.  It makes sense than that most of the cars are not CA.  At this point the only VW vans I have are late period vans and Bedford vehicles are easy enough to tell.  So I guess that only really leaves the long VW Bugs, which I'm not going to worry about.
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