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Tags discussion

HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
in Brickset.com
Please use this thread to discuss set tags. Tell us of duplicates, unwanted tags, of tags that should be added to locked sets and so on.
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Comments

  • gmonkey76gmonkey76 Member Posts: 1,828
    edited November 2014
    Please give us the option to hide tags. While some could be useful I think they are cluttering up bricklink. Case in point #76000 is tagged Justice League, boat, Batboat, watercraft, and freeze. Freeze is in the name of the set so I feel it should not be their. Boat, Batboat, and watercraft are the same for me and I think it more of a sled then boat. And lastly just cause Aquaman is in it that doesn't make it a Justice League set those are coming out in 2015. Just my two cents thank you.
    bobabricks
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    We are gradually weeding out the unnecessary ones, so bear with us. As far as hiding them goes, yes that should be possible. I'll add that to my to-do list...
    gmonkey76
  • PlympPlymp Member Posts: 3
    More a question than a comment: what's the rule for the tags describing location for the Architecture - Landmark Series? I've been adding country and city for some of them (were missing for most non-US sets). But then I noticed that for 21011 Brandenburg Gate the tag Berlin is not allowed, because it was previously deleted by a moderator. Doesn't that mean that for all US Architecture sets the tags like New York and Washington DC should be removed?
  • sgarrahysgarrahy Member Posts: 26
    Duplicate/incorrect

    Gryffindor is correct but the one below is misspelled.
    http://brickset.com/sets/tag-Griffindor
  • JoefishJoefish Member Posts: 16
    "Yong Robin" - delete, mis-spelling.
    "Yellow" - delete, pointless.
    "Bunny" merge into "Rabbit".
    "Kitty" merge into "Cat".
    (Though note that 'Teddy' and 'Bear' are two different things).
  • klatu003klatu003 Member Posts: 729
    Can the Tolkien sets have tag "Spider" as well? I see that LoTR and Hobbit are locked.

    If the idea on 79001 is that "spider is already in the title", a search on "spider" in titles gets you pages and pages of Spider-man.

    4738-1: Hagrid's Hut
    79001: Escape from Mirkwood Spiders
    9470: Shelob Attacks

    Can "Orcs" be added to
    9471
    9474
    79010
    Uruk-hai are orcs. Goblins are also orcs.
  • PurplorosPurploros Member Posts: 80
    @klatu003‌ I'll get to work on that.
    klatu003
  • ColoradoBricksColoradoBricks Member Posts: 1,659
    The Super Car tag has some junior, creator, etc sets. It should be reserved to Technic.

    The current Technic sets tagged are correct, but for #8466.
  • Lind_WhispererLind_Whisperer Member Posts: 65
    Sets that should be tagged "Ashlar":

    http://brickset.com/sets/7009-1/The-Final-Joust - Both knights(and horses) appear.
    http://brickset.com/sets/7038-1/Troll-Assault-Wagon - The wagon can be seen in a crowd shot.
    http://brickset.com/sets/7078-1/King-s-Battle-Chariot - The chariot is parked in the castle in the crowning scene.
    http://brickset.com/sets/7079-1/Drawbridge-Defense - The queen appears in the crowning scene, and the jester appears at several points.
    http://brickset.com/sets/10193-1/Medieval-Market-Village - The villagers appear in the crowd scene*.

    *My bad for forgetting this one the first time around!
  • Lind_WhispererLind_Whisperer Member Posts: 65
    Sets that should be tagged "(Planet) X4":

    http://brickset.com/sets/5973-1/Hyperspeed-Pursuit - Ship is seen parked on the landing pad.
    http://brickset.com/sets/5971-1/Gold-Heist - Ship is seen parked on the landing pad.
    http://brickset.com/sets/5969-1/Squidman-Escape - Squidman.
    http://brickset.com/sets/7093-1/Skeleton-Tower - Malek. Exactly how long he was imprisoned has never been stated, but he was there for long enough to be included.
    http://brickset.com/sets/5974-1/Galactic-Enforcer - I debated this entry. Technically, the only on-screen appearance of it was a unit that was flown there, not one that was already stationed. However, going off of precedents set by the Star Wars line, it was there long enough to be added. (For example, look at the Home One set. It doesn't actually contain any elements specific to Endor, but it had enough of an appearance in relation to it to be registered as an Endor set.)

    Technically, you could also argue that it should have an Ashlar tag as well, since it is presumably how Malek was landed, but since Malek is never actually seen being landed on-screen, there is not enough proof for an Ashlar tag to be added.
  • klatu003klatu003 Member Posts: 729
    Tag = Building

    There would need to be some editorial restraint on this, some definition to keep things in hand, but many of us like "buildings." I collect the Creator houses and shops, Ninjago temples, Chima structures and City buildings, Friends shops and occasional Super Hero buildings. Winter Village and Architecture and Modular Buildings are already well defined as buildings. I am looking for a way to pull all the nice structures out of themes where you have tons of mechs, vehicles and battles to wade through.
  • fox171171fox171171 Member Posts: 45
    While I understand the reasoning of not tagging something that already has that "tag" in the name of the set, it does produce one problem.

    These all have "shuttle" in the set name, so tagging "shuttle" might seem redundant.
    7166: Imperial Shuttle
    10212: Imperial Shuttle
    20016: Imperial Shuttle

    This set does not have "shuttle" in the set name, but could be tagged "shuttle":
    7264: Imperial Inspection

    That would connect them all. All have a (Lambda-class) shuttle as the primary part of the set, yet one fails to mention "shuttle" in the name.

    Also:
    8096: Emperor Palpatine's Shuttle
    (Theta-class shuttle)

    7659: Imperial Landing Craft
    Sentinel-class landing craft. Shuttle?

    Of course the unrelated Earth "Space Shuttle" could end up mixed in as well.

    Having "sentinel, lambda, theta" is probably more fine grained than necessary, but "shuttle" would be sufficient to tie all these to sets like "7264: Imperial Inspection" that do not have "shuttle" in the name.

    -

    Also in the Star Wars theme, there are many walkers.
    8038: The Battle of Endor
    could benefit from the tag "AT-ST". While the bunker is the biggest part of the set, the AT-ST is present. The tag could be applied to all "AT-ST" sets, named with it or not. That would connect all sets with AT-STs in them regardless of the set name.

    Also the tag "walker" could apply to all walkers (AT-AT, AT-ST, AT-DP and so on).

    Thoughts?
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    edited November 2014
    I think all the AT-AT's should be tagged with "Giant robot camel"
    PaperballparkandheBumblepantsicey117Renegade007cjh
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Administrator Posts: 6,754
    graphite said:

    I think all the AT-AT's should be tagged with "Giant robot camel"

    Done.

    ;-)
    icey117
  • CapnRex101CapnRex101 Administrator Posts: 2,364
    @graphite - What always gets me about that line is the calm resignation with which he says it.
    Andor
  • emmtwosixemmtwosix Member Posts: 80
    I'm okay with there not being a "Coast Guard" tag, but if that's the case, there probably needs to be some changes to the themes.

    Right now if you search "coast guard" you'll get quite a bit different results than a search of "coastguard" yields. Not only are they different, but mutually exclusive. These common sets cover four different subthemes (arguably a fifth if you were to consider a few sets from World City.)

    So, I'm not sure if the Coast Guard sets are supposed to stay separate from the Coastguard sets, but if not and this was just a case of overzealous, yet well-intentioned tag removal, please consider reintroducing the tag or fixing the theme names. Thanks!

  • PurplorosPurploros Member Posts: 80
    @Lind_Whisperer‌ Done and done :)
  • mikelenniummikelennium Member Posts: 4
    There is a double tag: "Formula one" and "Formula 1". Merge to "Formula 1" only?
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    CapnRex101 said:

    @graphite - What always gets me about that line is the calm resignation with which he says it.

    Yeah the subtleties in those episodes are just great. I can't watch star wars anymore with out quoting those and laughing about them.
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    There's a ton of different Motorbike tags. Motor Bike, Motorcycle, Motor Cycle, are all the same. Also, it's very hard to plow through all the Truck tags. Tow Truck, Semi Truck, and so on. I'd say we put them together. (For trucks, Monster Truck is something different so that one should be kept)

    I also went on and added the tag Juniorized.
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    Just saying, there's no limit on tag lengths. The link below doesn't work but i have created this tag, and i put it on this set.

    http://brickset.com/sets/tag-EbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbolaEbola
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark Member Posts: 4,268
    I just popped in here out of curiosity. It feels like I've stepped into a madhouse.

    #canofworms
    plasmodiumklatu003
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    So i added some crappy tags myself to see how fast they'd get removed... and nothing has happened yet. That definitely shows the lack of moderation. Can i be a tag moderator?
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    ^ You can add them but can't remove them so what harm does having it up for more than a day do? Plus you're causing a problem just to offer a solution by adding crappy tags for no reason.
    MorkManandheicey117
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    No, i just wanted to see how long those tags would stay. And they've been removed, but honestly it wasn't very fast. As a moderator you can delete useless tags... there's enough useless tags right now that need to be removed and i don't think there's enough moderators.
  • JoefishJoefish Member Posts: 16
    Yes, but you've just demonstrated you're the last person anyone would trust to do the job.
    caperberryWoutStopmotionCapnRex101MorkManandheicey117snowhitie
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    edited November 2014
    I'm on a roll with posting stuff... Either way, i was testing what tags are available on a random set and found out that Brick, Bricks, Piece, Pieces, Plate, Plates, Tile and Tiles are all not deleted yet.

    It might also be a good idea to delete Legos and Legoes, just incase.
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    ^^ True... then again, i won't do it in the future, that was just an experiment to see how long those tags would stay. With more moderators, it can be prevented as i said.

    Also, another suggestion: categorize tags. There's lots of tags available that have to do with Architecture sets, such as "Frank Lloyd Wright" and "Modernist" as examples. A good idea would be to change their names and add something in the lines of "Arch - " at the beginning. Then, a tag like "Neoclassical" would look like "Arch - Neoclassical". Same goes for minifigures and locations included in specific sets, they should be categorized after their corresponding themes.
  • woodwardiocomwoodwardiocom Member Posts: 1
    Why are the Indiana Jones sets tag-locked?
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    edited November 2014
    @WoutStopmotion, I think you've ably demonstrated that the system that's based partly on trust is not working and I suspect I'll now have to implement pre-moderation rather than post-moderation.

    At the moment too many tags are being added for the moderation team to be able to keep up with them, particularly given the relatively crude tools I've built for them so far, and given that over half are unwanted and need removing I'm fast reaching the conclusion that that is the only option.

    I will therefore shortly suspended everyone's ability to add them pending a rethink of the whole situation.

    ^ Because the mods think that no more tags are needed for them.
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    An idea i've suggested before is to let the public report tags/sets with tags that they think are tagged wrong, and let the moderators deal with the reported tags. That way makes it easier to pick out poor tags, instead of searching through tags yourself. There's many more users that can search out tags other than the exclusively selected moderators. This also rules out pending tags.
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Administrator Posts: 6,754
    edited November 2014
    Huw said:

    At the moment too many tags are being added for the moderation team to be able to keep up with them, particularly given the relatively crude tools I've built for them so far, and given that over half are unwanted and need removing I'm fast reaching the conclusion that that is the only option.

    I unfortunately agree with you, @Huw, having just discovered that of the hundreds of tags added so far, a third of them have been applied to just one set. This clearly demonstrates to me that while there are a lot of enthusiastic folks out there, too many of them are misunderstanding the point of tagging for the current situation to be sustainable.

    It's a valuable new tool - I've already found it to be useful - but with the volume of tagging going on and the number of inappropriate tags being added there's too much mess to clean up retrospectively in a timely fashion I think.
    hewman
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    Agreed. However, it has been an interesting exercise in crowd sourcing, and one which, unfortunately has not worked out quite how I had hoped.

    Having thought about it more since posting the message above I think what I'll do is grant specific users the ability to add tags, and not open the doors to all and sundry Tags added would not be moderated, since these users would be trusted to do a good job, so moderators will then just keep a general eye on things.
  • NickMossNickMoss Member Posts: 1
    Hi Huw, I'm sorry to hear that it has become a bit of a headache.
    Huw said:

    Having thought about it more since posting the message above I think what I'll do is grant specific users the ability to add tags, and not open the doors to all and sundry Tags added would not be moderated, since these users would be trusted to do a good job, so moderators will then just keep a general eye on things.

    I recently signed up (having looked around from time to time), and compiled a wanted list of pretty much every aviation related set I could find, so I've done the leg work of finding those. I'd be happy to go through and tag those for you if you wanted. I don't have oodles of time on my hands, so for the 600 or so sets I'd probably take a week or so to do it. A couple of thoughts:

    - For the past couple of days, I've been tagging everything on my list with "Aircraft", then adding "Helicopter", "Aeroplane", "Autogyro" as appropriate. But I'm wondering if every aircraft set having two tags is a bit redundant, and if it would be better to drop the "Aircraft" tag altogether. On the other hand, the catch-all tag would make it easier for someone searching all aircraft in one go. Up to you.

    - Maybe it would be worth compiling a master list of tags to be used first, then applying these to sets in order to keep some degree of coherence amongst everything. Perhaps some process (this forum might be the most obvious one) could also be created to allow people to suggest tags beyond that master list, so that it is still able to pick up on things which get missed.

    N
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    Tag redundancy is something we'll need to think about. Another example someone emailed me about was building, house, home, shop etc. They are all 'buildings' and I guess ideally they'd all have two tags, the other one to specify the type of building.

    The tags that have been submitted so far could form the basis of a master list. There'd be two levels of master list: tags that are useful across all themes (aircraft, train, building etc.) and those useful for only one (Hoth, Endor etc. for SW)

    Other things this crowdsourcing experiment has proven: tags are needed, will be useful and people are passionate about them. We just need to tweak the process of curating them to have them reach their potential.
    klatu003
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    Are Tags used by the search (or will they?) or will it be a new type of search?
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    They are used by search already e.g. http://brickset.com/sets?query=hoth
  • MorkManMorkMan Member Posts: 916
    Interestingly, I created the tag "container" to mean sets that include a specific container like a tub or a plastic box to hold LEGO. Two more sets with vehicles hauling containers have been added. I think somehow we need to adjust.
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    edited November 2014
    I've pulled out some reports from the tags so far entered and attach an XLS which has three sheets.

    - a list of tags grouped by theme
    - a list of tags sorted by tag showing which theme(s) they are used in
    - a list of all tags showing how many times they are used across all themes

    I wonder if the next step is to have 'theme experts' take a look at the tags used in specific themes and decide what's needed and suggest others. Some themes have been done by the mods already (I'll post a list when I've consulted with them as to what state we are in) but the big ones, castle, pirates and town/city haven't.

    Thoughts?
  • WoutStopmotionWoutStopmotion Member Posts: 33
    Thank me for the absurdly large useage of both Truck and Juniorized. I added Truck to a lot of Town sets that had multiple Truck tags like i mentioned before (such as Semi Truck, Tow Truck, and so on). Juniorized should be only used in Town right now but i'm not sure.
  • MorkManMorkMan Member Posts: 916
    It only takes one bad apple...
  • TheOneVeyronianTheOneVeyronian Member Posts: 1,372
    A thing I've noticed, mostly with LEGO original themes with named characters, is an awfully large use of character names as tags, despite the fact that a very large chunk of this information is available already and perfectly searchable in minifigs and (especially in the case of Bionicle and, to a lesser extent, Hero Factory) set names. For example, set #7117 has the set name "Gresh" and also the tag "Gresh". (the tag is also a single use example despite the fact there are 2 different sets called "Gresh")

    I'm proposing to slowly weed these tags out myself over the next few days, unless somebody here specifically objects to it.
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    I agree, go for it.
  • mikelenniummikelennium Member Posts: 4
    edited November 2014
    I think that double-tagging is useful.
    For example: though the tag "Gresh" looks superflous, it comes in handy when you click on the tag itself. When you do this, all of the sets with this tag appear in the search result, even with the set named "Gresh". When a set named "fire helicopter" (for example) and someone would click on the tag "helicopter", the fire helicopter set does not appear if it isn't tagged "helicopter" so you need to do a manual "helicopter" search to see it. I know, it's not that much work but I think that the above is the power of tagging)
    lego613mastersidersdd
  • HuwHuw Administrator Posts: 7,087
    Changes have been made this morning:

    - Tags are now hidden from everyone except moderators UNLESS a set has been marked as checked by the mods. 1000 sets have been checked so far.
    - Tags can't be added by anyone but moderators
    - If you don't want to see tags at all you can remove them here.
    - Tags can still be searched for and still appear in the drop-down list even if they are otherwise hidden.

    A new role 'tag contributor' has been created and in a couple of weeks I will invite people to request to become one. Not right away though as I want to give the mods time to catch up with the 10,000-odd that need sorting out.
    andhesidersdd
  • TheOneVeyronianTheOneVeyronian Member Posts: 1,372
    edited November 2014
    ^^ The "Helicopter" tag case you describe is actually different to the tag I was describing. I wasn't considering abolishing tags like that as they tag both sets with and without the tag in the name, just tags only applied to sets that reference a character name in the set title, which is already searchable via other means and yields much the same information.

    Character pseudonyms and full names, for example the "William Furno" tag applied to all Hero Factory sets with just "Furno" in the name, are somewhat a different kettle of fish and probably make more sense, so I'll keep those in.

    In the meantime, I'll work on cleaning up the Bionicle and Ninjago tags a bit.
  • iuliandiuliand Member Posts: 15
    I recently found that set "4767-1: Harry and the Hungarian Horntail" it's not assigned to the "Dragon" tag yet. While the tags are being moderated is there any chance to correct this kind of omissions or we just have to wait until some future approved "tag contributor" will notice this? I think there should be a mechanism to suggest tagging for approval.
    Galactus
  • iuliandiuliand Member Posts: 15
    If I may suggest this is how I see this working:
    - newly created tags should be subject to approval by the moderators.
    - existing (already created and approved) tags assignment for each set should be subject to approval by the tag contributors. Also tag contributors should be able to freely assign tags.
  • PurplorosPurploros Member Posts: 80
    @iuliand‌ Moderators can still add and delete tags. So as you encounter problems, just pm one of us or tell us here and we can correct them.

    I added 'dragon' to set 4767.
  • plasmodiumplasmodium Member Posts: 1,956
    Sir_Gareth said:

    @iuliand‌ Moderators can still add and delete tags. So as you encounter problems, just pm one of us or tell us here and we can correct them.

    Just for clarity's sake, who are the tag moderators at the moment, so we know who to ask?
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