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Can The Hobbit Sets Be Considered a Sales Flop for LEGO?

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Comments

  • BrewBrew New Mexico (It's an actual state in the US)Member Posts: 182
    I thought it was Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that PG-13 was created for. Pretty violent with the ripping out heart scene. Steven Spielberg and GL would certainly have the combined muscle to create a new rating so they didn't get the kiss of box-office $ death of an R rating at the time.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,570
    edited September 2014
    I wonder if lego will learn from LOTR and The Hobbit. There is clearly a (mainly later teen and adult) market for toys and collectables from such films. There are loads of non-lego collectables you can buy, for significantly less money than the lego sets. I wonder if lego are really reaching the fans of the franchises and selling to them, or whether those they buy get their minifigs from resellers via ebay.

    It makes me wonder if lego would ever pursue a license for a movie such that they can sell individual minifigs or just (cheap) battle pack style small sets which would be on par with pricing of other collectables, with maybe one flagship building set. So for LOTR for example, they could have done the four Hobbits as a battle pack, maybe two ringwraiths and their horses, Theoden, Eomer and a couple of Rohan warriors, in another etc. and then have Orthanc as the flagship build model for real enthusiasts. Or even package each figure into a polybag, with a small associated build. I often see people paying £5 or more per minifig for just the minifigs, outside of the building sets, so presumably these could be marketed at a profit still.

    That is, take some licensed lego ranges clearly into the aimed at collectors market rather than the building toy market. Obviously not all ranges should go this way, but the ones likely to be aimed at fans of a licensed product that may not want to spend £300-400 on sets, but would spend £100 on 20 minifigs. There seems to be an untapped (primary) market that resellers are filling on the secondary market.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited September 2014


    LOTR violence is just ongoing and on a scale of graphic display that Star Wars doesn't even dream of...

    The large scale battles in LOTR alone are completely inappropriate for kids of any age...

    Of course, I still think the rating system is completely messed up... They are rated PG-13, frankly I think they deserve an R rating... Kids under 17 shouldn't be watching them at all, IMHO...

    Kids under 17 in america shouldn't even have time to watch LotR - they should be down the range playing with their assault riffles surely?

    That said, I agree I wouldn't let my kids watch LotR (and they wouldn't want to) but have no problem with Star Wars (although their mum has banned them from Ep III). To be honest, it never really made sense to me as a LEGO theme.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Kids under 17 in america shouldn't even have time to watch LotR - they should be down the range playing with their assault riffles surely?

    :) That's funny...

    What is an assault rifle? Is it a rifle guilty of attacking other rifles? :)
    pharmjod
  • plasmodiumplasmodium UKMember Posts: 1,936


    LOTR violence is just ongoing and on a scale of graphic display that Star Wars doesn't even dream of...

    The large scale battles in LOTR alone are completely inappropriate for kids of any age...

    Of course, I still think the rating system is completely messed up... They are rated PG-13, frankly I think they deserve an R rating... Kids under 17 shouldn't be watching them at all, IMHO...

    Kids under 17 in america shouldn't even have time to watch LotR - they should be down the range playing with their assault riffles surely?

    That said, I agree I wouldn't let my kids watch LotR (and they wouldn't want to) but have no problem with Star Wars (although their mum has banned them from Ep III). To be honest, it never really made sense to me as a LEGO theme.

    While I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that LotR should have had a 17 rating, I would definitely agree that it didn't quite make sense as a Lego theme.

    Sure, as an 18 (or so?) year old AFOL/TFOL, I was excited when they announced it, but it really doesn't fit with Lego's target audience unless there are a lot of parents letting their 10-14 ear old kids watch LotR - and the sets are so obviously from the movie not the book that I'm leaving out the possibility that kids are reading the books...

    Ditto the Hobbit - the movies were supposed to be more kid-friendly (like the book is) than LotR, but if anything, they have ended up more gruesome (due to having CGI orcs, not real actors), with random silly scenes thrown in here and there.

    Strange that you should bring up SW Ep. III, though, because off the top of my head I can think of at least two 'pocket money' sets which include lava-fried Anakin - quite possibly the most gruesome thing in all the SW films...
  • binaryeyebinaryeye USMember Posts: 1,734

    Kids under 17 in america shouldn't even have time to watch LotR - they should be down the range playing with their assault riffles surely?

    Nah, by that time they've got their driver's license and have graduated to tanks and mobile artillery.
  • RomanticWarriorRomanticWarrior United StatesMember Posts: 248
    CCC said:

    ..

    It makes me wonder if lego would ever pursue a license for a movie such that they can sell individual minifigs or just (cheap) battle pack style small sets which would be on par with pricing of other collectables, with maybe one flagship building set. So for LOTR for example, they could have done the four Hobbits as a battle pack, maybe two ringwraiths and their horses, Theoden, Eomer and a couple of Rohan warriors, in another etc. and then have Orthanc as the flagship build model for real enthusiasts. Or even package each figure into a polybag, with a small associated build. I often see people paying £5 or more per minifig for just the minifigs, outside of the building sets, so presumably these could be marketed at a profit still.

    You mean like the way they handled The Simpsons? ;)
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,570
    ^ Not necessarily in blind packs. But otherwise, yes.
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,154
    edited September 2014
    The problem with trying to go for a market based on what collectors might go for is that there is also the high end of stuff that goes like hot cakes with comic con type crowds - I say as a regular convention attendee who doesn't go for the high end stuff.

    take for example this Star Lord action figure - even with the big discount on the RRP its still massively more than any of the Lego sets. I can see where you might think about collectors looking at choosing a lego set vs a cheap action figure/collectable figurine but ultimately they are such different end products that the decision is more likely to be made on what product they want more rather than how they are sold.
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,154
    rereading that I'm not sure I explained very well. The basis of what I was getting at is that the more mini figures in lower priced packs would probably be a better money spinner for TLG with a theme that's really aimed at kids than the themes that will appeal more to teen/adult fans of the franchise.
  • AndorAndor United StatesMember Posts: 252

    Well, flop is a bit subjective. I would say what is causing a 'flop' is LEGO is getting a bit greedy with the licensed lines. I know they have to pay fees but yet I see stores all over routinely giving offers of 25-40% off on sets from time to time, which tells me they cannot be hurting too badly if they drop these 40-50% off.
    I would echo what has been said above. At retail they are not a great deal, but wait long enough for 30-50% off and they become great either for parts and collectors alike.
    Same though with SW line. Great sets if they are at what should be their retail, but horrible if at their RRP.

    I don't think Lego is being greedy, more like Warner Bros. You know Lego has to get the o.k. from Warner Bros before they produce sets, and the pricing might be the same way. It's great the you have your own though opinion. :-)
  • Sethro3Sethro3 United StatesMember Posts: 819
    You can't compare Hot Toys figures to LEGO. You just can't. Hot Toys has a long history of being a display figure well worth the expense it costs due to the detailing. LEGO is just a pile of plastic bricks for kids to play with. Very big difference. Yes, there are LEGO sets that are great display pieces, but they can be more than that compared to some of these other "toys."

    As far as Licensed themes go, I'm sure some sets will flop and others will be huge hits. LEGO doesn't seem to have control over what sets they can produce. The source material/licensor tell you what they want to have produced from my understanding. I think it was a Middle Earth package deal, so they based sets on LOTR, when they really only cared about Hobbit since that is what was fresh. The CEO even stated that licensed products sell toys, so that is why they do so many licensed themes now. They are in the business of making money..just like any other company in the world.

    I always prefer sale prices since LEGO is an expensive hobby/toy. It seems most adults can't even afford all they want, just imagine the kids. But I rarely see LEGO on clearance/sale prices. Some people are finding great deals on Middle Earth sets or whatever theme, but YMMV for sure. I rarely (read: never) see sale prices. The best I can hope for is my redcard savings...
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,096
    Sethro3 said:

    But I rarely see LEGO on clearance/sale prices. Some people are finding great deals on Middle Earth sets or whatever theme, but YMMV for sure. I rarely (read: never) see sale prices. The best I can hope for is my redcard savings...

    Lego goes on sale regularly. Regarding clearance: You either live in a highly competitive reseller market or are just not looking hard enough. For example the other night we happened to stop by Walmart. I checked phone to see what possibly might be available on clearance. Black Gate was listed for $29 but out of stock. Regardless, after a bit of searching I found a stack of them in the garden aisle along with a few other sets.
    madforLEGO
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,154
    edited September 2014
    Sethro3 said:

    You can't compare Hot Toys figures to LEGO. You just can't. Hot Toys has a long history of being a display figure well worth the expense it costs due to the detailing. LEGO is just a pile of plastic bricks for kids to play with. Very big difference. Yes, there are LEGO sets that are great display pieces, but they can be more than that compared to some of these other "toys."

    Just to clarify that was sort of my point, lego is a different product to any action figure etc so TLG have to take a different approach and fans of a series will ultimately buy or not buy the lego because they like the lego style.
  • VenunderVenunder Nottingham, UK.Member Posts: 2,464
    edited September 2014
    I would just like to point out that I read the Hobbit when I was 9.
    I read LOTR when I was 10-11.

    So as far as I am concerned Lego had every reason to produce LOTR and Hobbit sets.

    What they should not have done was what they actually did.
    They followed the Films of a raving egomaniac called PJ who changed the stories to suit his own needs.

    Now for whatever reasons Lego produced a dubious array of sets and made them even further away from the source material by producing them out of sequence.

    What should have been produced over the course of 8-10 years and could still be done, if Lego have the licence and the will power.

    Hobbit

    1. The Unexpected Gathering. http://brickset.com/sets/79003-1
    2. The Trolls cave with Sting, Glamdring and Orcrist. Tom, Bert, and William.
    3. UCS Rivendell. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/72851
    Including more Elves, Glorfindel and others. Maybe introduce Arwen here. With the broken sword Narsil. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Search?search=Narsil&fulltext=Search&ns0=1&ns14=1 and some Elven smiths to reforge it.
    3. A Goblin Battle Pack for the cave scene. Bilbo and pony.
    4. The Throne Room of the Goblin King with a different but better version of the Goblin King. Scale back the size of this set to just the Throne and the goblins. Save the cost of the mold for a bigger Gwahir.
    The bloated White Thing in the movies is just a comic abomination as far as I am concerned. The Jar-Jar-binks of the Hobbit. http://brickset.com/sets/79010-1
    5. The Riddles of the Ring. http://brickset.com/sets/79000-1/Riddles-for-the-Ring
    6. The Goblins at the Eastern Gate. Another Goblin battlepack.
    7. Fifteen Birds in Five Fir Trees. The mould of Gwahir needs to be twice as big as it is
    for this set. The dwarves and whiteface orc could have been left out. http://brickset.com/sets/79002-1
    8. An Orc battle pack. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/like/221422468198?clk_rvr_id=693010277698&item=221422468198&lgeo=1&vectorid=229508
    9. The Eagles and Wargs. Battle pack.
    10. The House of Beorn. With Beorn man and possibly a large bear, some other animals.
    11. The Wood Elven battlepack. No need for Legolas he was not in the Hobbit.
    12. The Mirkwood spiders. http://brickset.com/sets/79001-1
    13. The Halls of Thranduil. A gateway and inside feast scene.
    14. Barrel Escape. http://brickset.com/sets/79004-1
    15. The River Ride. A landscape with barrels and Dwarves.
    16. The Lake town. http://brickset.com/sets/79013-1
    17. Lake town guards battlepack.
    18. The house of the Master of Laketown.
    19. The Dol Guldur set. http://brickset.com/sets/79014-1
    20. The Secret Door with Thrush http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Thrush
    21. Smaug and his Treasure hoard. http://brickset.com/sets/79018-1
    22. The Ruin of Laketown with another house http://brickset.com/sets/79016-1
    23. Dale with a dwarf battlepack. Instead of this http://brickset.com/sets/79011-1
    24. The Doors of Erebor. A half Dwarf half elf battle pack.
    25. The Iron hill Dwarves. Battle pack.
    26. The Elven Battle pack. http://brickset.com/sets/79012-1
    27. The Battle of five armies. More Mountainside with Dwarves and Orcs of Mnt Gundabad. http://brickset.com/sets/79017-1
    28. CMF series. The Unexpected Gathering in armour. 14 minifigs + Bard + Thranduil in battle armour, no crown.

    Lord of the Rings

    1. Gandalf Arrives http://brickset.com/sets/9469-1/Gandalf-Arrives
    2. Bilbo's 111th party. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/69033
    3. Another Hobbiton house
    4. Farmer Giles
    5. The Ferry. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/48934
    6. Old Man Willow
    7. The Barrow. With ghostly wraiths that could later also be used for the army of the Dead.
    8. The Prancing Pony. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/60304
    9. Black Rider, Bree men battle pack.
    10. Weathertop. http://brickset.com/sets/9472-1
    11. The Wizard battle http://brickset.com/sets/79005-1
    12. Meeting with Glorfindel "Arwen". An elf battlepack
    13. The Council of the wise. Battlepack. Different Dwarves (lose Gimli), Elves (lose Arwen) and Boromir, Gondorian soldier. http://brickset.com/sets/79006-1
    14. The Watcher in the Water. Moria Gateway.
    15. The Mines of Moria http://brickset.com/sets/9473-1/The-Mines-of-Moria
    16. Moria Orc. Battle pack.
    17. The Balrog https://ideas.lego.com/projects/70624
    18. The Forest of Lothlorien.
    19. Lothlorien elves. Battle pack.
    20. CMF series one Elves, Orcs, Men, in variant armours
    21. Gift giving Elven Swan boats
    22. Expert set. The Argonath. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Argonath
    23. The battle at Amon Hen. White Hand Uruk Hai battlepack. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/24895
    24. Many Foes he Fought. The death of Boromir
    25. The Dead Marshes. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/66545 or https://ideas.lego.com/projects/76166 to get another Fell beast.
    26. The Eaves of Fangorn. Riders of Rohan, Orcs or Mordor Battle set
    27. Treebeard. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/41867
    28. The Ent moot. Or a series of Constraction Ents.
    29. The Tower of Orthanc
    30. The Orc Forge http://brickset.com/sets/9476-1
    31. Expert Meduseld
    32. Helms Deep http://brickset.com/sets/9474-1
    33. Riders of Rohan battlepack.
    34. Uruk-hai Army http://brickset.com/sets/9471-1
    35. Rangers of Ithilian Battle pack. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/45646
    36. The Paths of the Dead. Army of the Dead Battle Pack
    37. Prince Imrahil Gondorian battlepack
    38. Series 2 Gondorians, Hillmen, Evil men and Wraiths in variant armours.
    39. Corsairs of Umbar Battlepack
    40. UCS Minas Tirith. Denethor Gondorian armour https://ideas.lego.com/projects/74237
    41. Denethor's Seat in The throneroom. Gondorian battlepack
    42. The fall of Osgiliath https://ideas.lego.com/projects/75997
    43. Expert Set Minas Morgul. A glowing Green terror. To rival Orthanc or Helms Deep
    44. The Which King Battle http://brickset.com/sets/79015-1
    https://ideas.lego.com/projects/41453
    45. Olog Hai Battle pack 3 large armoured Trolls
    46. Grond with 4 battle Trolls. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Grond
    47. Mumak. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/43821
    48. A Southron http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Haradrim , Easterlings http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Easterlings battlepack.
    49. Riders of Rohan at the Pelennor Fields. A battlepack
    50. The Pirate Ship http://brickset.com/sets/79008-1
    51. Umbarian battlepack. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Corsairs_of_Umbar
    52. The Swan Knights battle pack http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Imrahil
    53. The Wounding of Faramir. Another Gondorian battlepack. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/46182
    54. Shelob attacks. http://brickset.com/sets/9470-1
    55. Shagrat Cirith Ungol Orcs vs Radbug's Morgul Orcs, Castle scene or Battlepack. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Shagrat
    56. The End of the ring at the Cracks of Doom. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/49900 http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Cracks_of_Doom
    57. The Battle at the Black Gate http://brickset.com/sets/79007-1
    58. Barad Dur. https://ideas.lego.com/projects/64574
    59. The Wedding.
    60. The Scouring of the Shire. Orcish Men battlepack
    61. The Green Dragon. Sam and Rosies children. http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/The_Green_Dragon_Inn
    62. Sailing to the West https://ideas.lego.com/projects/51716
    icey117
  • plasmodiumplasmodium UKMember Posts: 1,936
    Venunder said:

    I would just like to point out that I read the Hobbit when I was 9.
    I read LOTR when I was 10-11.

    So as far as I am concerned Lego had every reason to produce LOTR and Hobbit sets.

    What they should not have done was what they actually did.
    They followed the Films of a raving egomaniac called PJ who changed the stories to suit his own needs.
    ...

    Exactly. There's nothing wrong with reading the books at a young age, but the movies were too mature for the target audience (though, FWIW, I thought the LotR movies were a decent adaptation - the Hobbit was where it fell apart).

    The sets were based on the movie because that's what Lego has always done - and it kinda makes sense, because the movie gives you more visual cues for the designers, and they assume that mindless little people who demand Lego sets from their parents are more likely to have watched 9-12 hours of film than thousands of pages of words.
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    Brew said:

    I thought it was Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that PG-13 was created for. Pretty violent with the ripping out heart scene. Steven Spielberg and GL would certainly have the combined muscle to create a new rating so they didn't get the kiss of box-office $ death of an R rating at the time.

    If I remember the commentary correctly, it was Temple of Doom (and likely his involvement with Gremlins) that led Spielberg to suggest the intermediary rating of PG-13, but the rating wasn't officially introduced until July.
  • YodaliciousYodalicious DagobahMember Posts: 1,366
    Someone who knows more than I can correct me if I'm wrong or elaborate more, but I believe the reason the sets are in line with the movies as opposed to the books is because the licensing deal is with the movies. This is the same reason the Marvel sets are based off of Avengers or Iron Man 3 or Ultimate Spider-man and not the comic books themselves.
    plasmodium
  • YodaliciousYodalicious DagobahMember Posts: 1,366
    As for movie ratings, my wife and I are rewatching the Harry Potter series at the moment and it'll be years and years before I let my son watch them. Even some of the PG ones have some scenes that would have kept me up for days when I was a kid.
  • tamamahmtamamahm Member Posts: 1,941

    Venunder said:

    I would just like to point out that I read the Hobbit when I was 9.
    I read LOTR when I was 10-11.

    So as far as I am concerned Lego had every reason to produce LOTR and Hobbit sets.

    What they should not have done was what they actually did.
    They followed the Films of a raving egomaniac called PJ who changed the stories to suit his own needs.
    ...

    Exactly. There's nothing wrong with reading the books at a young age, but the movies were too mature for the target audience (though, FWIW, I thought the LotR movies were a decent adaptation - the Hobbit was where it fell apart).


    I read Hobbit and LOTR when I was ten. My daughter did as well.
    That is not the norm, though, at least in the US. Most kids in that age range have not read them, and many kids in that age range have still not seen the movies. I am one that also will not let my kids see LOTR or the Hobbit due to the violence. The sets are based completely on the movie. At least with Marvel and other super hero movies, even if some are violent or targeted to adults, there are other kid-friendly avenues to explore for Super Heroes.

    What kids have read a ton, though, is Percy Jackson and Harry Potter. It is a shame the Percy Jackson movies were not better done, because those would have targeted the age group Lego is after, and Greek mythology is huge in that age range as well as evidence by the number of book series that focus on Greek mythology.
    Brickarmor
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Venunder said:

    I would just like to point out that I read the Hobbit when I was 9.
    I read LOTR when I was 10-11.

    So as far as I am concerned Lego had every reason to produce LOTR and Hobbit.

    The books don't bother me, the films are the issue. They are very violent with long stretches of large combat with large numbers of people killed, many of them on screen, including blood, ogre, and beheadings.

    Yes, Luke gets his hand chopped off, but the same film shows him getting a new hand and it isn't that bad.

    Each parent has to make up their own mind, I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to raise my kids, just saying how I'm raising mine.

    My older son turns 9 in a month and I still am not letting him watch Back to the Future yet, you think LOTR is even on the table? :)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    As for movie ratings, my wife and I are rewatching the Harry Potter series at the moment and it'll be years and years before I let my son watch them. Even some of the PG ones have some scenes that would have kept me up for days when I was a kid.

    Yep... When I was a kid, I had nightmares for days from the trash compactor scene in Star Wars. When my son watched that, I made a point to pull up production pictures on the iPad to show him how they did it so he could see that they were not really in a trash compactor.

    Episode III with the lava scared the crap out of him, we do not watch that part, we just fast forward.
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,802
    Huh. I used to think of myself as somewhat sheltered... I hardly watched any non-educational TV until Pokémon roped me into watching more of the same Saturday morning cartoons as my peers (many of whom had been watching action shows like Power Rangers since I was in preschool). I would watch some stuff like the old Batman TV show from the 60s with my parents, but for the most part my TV watching was limited to what they deemed appropriate. Sometimes when I think back to those days I feel a little bit ashamed, because I was an arrogant little snot and basically convinced myself that my strictly-moderated interests were more wholesome than those of my peers, even as I was missing out completely on some of the most amazing cartoons of the 90s like Batman: The Animated Series and Animaniacs.

    But I seem to remember watching The Fellowship of the Ring when it first came out in theaters. I was ten years old at the time, and part of the reason I was allowed to watch it was that I had already read all of the books... I was well above the typical reading level for my age. I seem to even remember building Lord of the Rings creations with my LEGO sets at the time. Of course, this was before there existed short legs for dwarves and hobbits. I can't remember whether I used 1x1 round bricks for their legs or just used normal minifigure legs and ignored the height difference.

    All things considered, I think different kids are probably ready for certain kinds of content at different ages. The violence in the Lord of the Rings movies didn't even faze me as a kid, which is strange since they were probably the most violent movies I had seen up until that point. I don't remember having nightmares or anything like that related to the movies. The way that violence was presented might have had something to do with that — like The Dark Knight, another movie where I remember people debating the legitimacy of the MPAA rating, a lot of the violence was of the incredibly fast, blink-and-you-miss-it variety. Orcs were mowed down by arrows and then you didn't see them anymore. There wasn't a lot of gore, and when there was the camera didn't linger on it — the severity of a character's injuries were frequently left to the imagination. But of course, it's possible that people who could better visualize the gruesomeness just off-camera might have been much more affected by the violence than I was.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    ^ we're like two peas in a pod! No way my boys are watching LotR for a long while. SW is fine except for ep3 with the anakin/mum/sand people thing and lava bits ( I would probably let them watch it if I was present but have been told very clearly NO). We have watched BTTF with them but regretted watching BTTF 2. Also no to any Indiana Jones yet but are currently deciding on the first PotC. Ghostbusters was fine apart from the trousers part but they didn't get that so no worries. The first couple of HP they're ok with too, after that we won't let them watch them. So it's not only LotR but that's years away where as the others are on the cusp for us. Much happier with them watching James bond (except the more recent ones) and a few war films (battle of Britain, where eagles dare etc)
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,802

    ^ we're like two peas in a pod! No way my boys are watching LotR for a long while. SW is fine except for ep3 with the anakin/mum/sand people thing and lava bits ( I would probably let them watch it if I was present but have been told very clearly NO). We have watched BTTF with them but regretted watching BTTF 2. Also no to any Indiana Jones yet but are currently deciding on the first PotC. Ghostbusters was fine apart from the trousers part but they didn't get that so no worries. The first couple of HP they're ok with too, after that we won't let them watch them. So it's not only LotR but that's years away where as the others are on the cusp for us. Much happier with them watching James bond (except the more recent ones) and a few war films (battle of Britain, where eagles dare etc)

    The part where Anakin and his mom had a run-in with the sand people was episode 2, not 3! I'm glad you didn't get as far as watching that with your kids before realizing you had forgotten which episode that was in!
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,371
    Eh, to each their own I guess. I was raised on Horror and Sci-Fi. My mom would drop us off at the theatre with my friends and we watched Classic Horror films and Godzilla flicks. I used to get Fangoria and Famous Monsters magazines. All this was around when the first Star Wars came out. I don't remember having any nightmares and I wasn't scarred for life.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Aanchir said:

    The part where Anakin and his mom had a run-in with the sand people was episode 2, not 3! I'm glad you didn't get as far as watching that with your kids before realizing you had forgotten which episode that was in!

    I'm sure many people will not agree with me...

    But I have no problem with that scene... in fact, it says much about what I view to be wrong with the Jedi and the Republic...

    As I explained to my son when we watched it together, Anakin killed them all because they killed his mother. Frankly, if someone killed my mother, I would likely go all Sith on them as well. Using that as an "evil" thing in the movie never made sense to me, defense of your family strikes me as a virtue, not evil.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Pitfall69 said:

    Eh, to each their own I guess. I was raised on Horror and Sci-Fi. My mom would drop us off at the theatre with my friends and we watched Classic Horror films and Godzilla flicks. I used to get Fangoria and Famous Monsters magazines. All this was around when the first Star Wars came out. I don't remember having any nightmares and I wasn't scarred for life.

    In fairness, horror today is not the same thing as horror in the 70s... :)

    Would you take your 8 year old to see Saw III?
  • piratemania7piratemania7 New EnglandMember Posts: 2,052
    Who is this LFT (@LegoFanTexas)? Is this a new user of the forum? Welcome!

    ; )
  • dannyrwwdannyrww WisconsinMember Posts: 1,328
    I am a big fan of Lord of the Rings (both the books and the films, though I prefer the films). i have read much of the books with my 8 year old daughter and she knows much of the story by heart from this and my re-tellings (using Lego figures), we've played the game as well...... I think most of the harsh violence comes in the third movie (and I know I am setting myself up for judgement here, but my daughter has seen the films).

    I think a big part of it is a discussion of what is happening and the consequences of those actions, discussing who is involved, and what the repercussions of war are. As a history teacher there is certainly mirrors and allegories galore (though as Tolkein himself said none were intended). Seeing as how she is learning about wars to some extent at school I do find the opportunity to discuss these things anyways.

    Again it is left to each individual and their families to decide, and I can respect that. My daughter Hope has an odd maturity about her (her request as a "reward" for finishing homework tonight was too feed and hold her baby brother...something I would see as a chore). That being said she was not the typical audience for these sets and it did hurt sales I am sure.

    The Hobbit sadly doesn't know what it is. That also hurts sales for the Lego sets I'm sure.
  • CircleKCircleK U.S. - Columbus, OhioMember Posts: 1,055
    Pitfall69 said:

    Eh, to each their own I guess. I was raised on Horror and Sci-Fi. My mom would drop us off at the theatre with my friends and we watched Classic Horror films and Godzilla flicks. I used to get Fangoria and Famous Monsters magazines. All this was around when the first Star Wars came out. I don't remember having any nightmares and I wasn't scarred for life.

    Same. Blood, gore, gruesome scenes etc, just don't register with me. I'm indifferent to them. I've never had nightmares or been squeamish due to movie scenes that I can remember. I don't like or dislike over the top gore - it just doesn't matter to me either way. I actually find the content of shows like Law and Order SVU more alarming than I do fantasy battle scenes in movies like LotR.

    Like many of you, I will pay close attention to what my children watch. Just bc it never bothered me doesn't mean they won't be more sensitive to it. My parents never did though and it never seemed to impact me one way or the other.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,371
    edited September 2014
    Pitfall69 said:

    Eh, to each their own I guess. I was raised on Horror and Sci-Fi. My mom would drop us off at the theatre with my friends and we watched Classic Horror films and Godzilla flicks. I used to get Fangoria and Famous Monsters magazines. All this was around when the first Star Wars came out. I don't remember having any nightmares and I wasn't scarred for life.

    In fairness, horror today is not the same thing as horror in the 70s... :)

    Would you take your 8 year old to see Saw III?

    To be fair, Jaws, Jaws 2, Halloween, Phantasm, Dawn of the Dead, Salem's Lot were all released in the 70's. Friday the 13th was released early 1980. My father took me to see that film. My almost 5 year old has seen both Hobbit films and has seen some Episodes of The Walking Dead. She was fine until my 8 year old nephew started watching Ghostbusters and my daughter saw the ghost in the library and freaked out. I figured it was Ghostbusters; I didn't think she would get scared from that.

    The Saw series wasn't scary at all, it was gory. I think there is a difference.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,371
    edited September 2014
    CircleK said:

    Pitfall69 said:

    Eh, to each their own I guess. I was raised on Horror and Sci-Fi. My mom would drop us off at the theatre with my friends and we watched Classic Horror films and Godzilla flicks. I used to get Fangoria and Famous Monsters magazines. All this was around when the first Star Wars came out. I don't remember having any nightmares and I wasn't scarred for life.

    Same. Blood, gore, gruesome scenes etc, just don't register with me. I'm indifferent to them. I've never had nightmares or been squeamish due to movie scenes that I can remember. I don't like or dislike over the top gore - it just doesn't matter to me either way. I actually find the content of shows like Law and Order SVU more alarming than I do fantasy battle scenes in movies like LotR.

    Like many of you, I will pay close attention to what my children watch. Just bc it never bothered me doesn't mean they won't be more sensitive to it. My parents never did though and it never seemed to impact me one way or the other.
    Some of the stuff on SVU is worse than some horror movies. Why? Because rape, pedophiles and domestic violence is REAL and the show does a good job showing that it is REAL.

    I do monitor what my girls watch, but for the most part, the movies don't seem to bother them.

  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,546
    edited September 2014
    I wonder if modern movie makers' reliance on CGI and the growing lack of participation from audiences in 'roller-coaster' type insta-thrills movies vs the old fashioned industry reliance on slow-build 'suspense'/all in the mind tricks (usually because SFX were too expensive and would still be crap), has created a movie landscape where there are no mature themes for children to get to grips with safely, and then when confronted with something emotionally testing, it's immediacy is all too graphic, and results in a form of culture shock for growing kids.

    But then, one modern news broadcast (24 hours rolling channels) will show so much more tragedy and violence than any (late night) news bulletin did when i was a kid. Modern life is totally screwed up. It's seems to be total access to all things all at once, with no middle ground to grow into it.

    I was born in the 70's. I grew up with war movies, sci-fi/horror 'b-movies', black and white slapstick comedy, thrillers, plenty of 'murder' mysteries, etc.
    Almost all movies i saw in my (1980's) childhood would, in their time (1920's - 1970's) have been made for an adult/mature audience, but during the 80's could be broadcast at any time of the day, due to a total lack of swearing, sex, bloodshed, or graphicness.
    Example:
    'old' war film: A soldier gets shot = gun goes pop, and a man falls over. The whole family can watch this film, each viewer takes from it what they are capable of understanding. Nobody is traumatised. BUT...

    A 'modern' war film: a soldier gets shot = limbs fly off, blood gushes, people scream, slow motion, close up, exit wounds, exploding brains... it's visceral. Modern films seem obsessed with screen equivalent of the purple prose, with total disregard for story. It's graphic, extreme 'reality' on crack, with no purpose beyond making an audience salivate for more and more and more. But if anyone makes a war film today without such things, it would be universally panned for being unrealistic, laughably tame, nonsense.

    So, in effect, a child of the 70's and 80's has watched mature themed movies that were relevant for the time, and accessible, viewed through the eyes of a child, you only took in what you could comprehend, and each time you watched them (be it horror, gangsters, war, murder) as you grew older, you'd appreciate different facets. The screen fades to black... did the man and lady 'get it on' just now? As an innocent, the scene merely changes, as a mature adult, i'm allowed to consider the finer subtle details (that the film maker had to allude to, to get the film passed). But a modern film will leave us with no choice to make, no illusions or allusions to appreciate - they'll make us watch every gritty detail, and rob the audience wishing to choose what it sees.

    Those of us in our late 20's through early 40's have been afforded a sort of generational luxury of having the movie (and communications) industry grow with us. We've enjoyed a maturing process inline with what became possible, as it became possible.
    Are kids of today getting those 'mature themes done safe' type films that we (unintentionally) witnessed, (thanks to previous decades of cash strapped, fx-limited, story-focused film makers), or are modern kids being subjected to our desire for those previously impossible guts-and-gyrations images that we're now capable of making.

    It's perhaps not that kids are squeamish (or any different), but are just being fed a crummy mix of docile vacuous 'kids' movies, followed by equally vacuous 'adult' gore-porn-FX-fests. There's not much being made today (that i can think of) that could be considered an adult (intelligent) film with child/family friendly production values. Today, if it's got mature themes, it's usually made in an 'Adult' i.e. graphic, way. Which robs growing children from seeing, maturing with, these films.

    (Sorry, post is a bit 'rambley').
    Pitfall69dougts
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,371
    edited September 2014
    70's Horror/Sci-Fi movies aren't terrifying at all...not in the least ;)
    legomatt
  • emilewskiemilewski CT, USAMember Posts: 475
    ^ oh great, now I am the one who is going to have nightmares tonight. Thanks a lot. :P
    Pitfall69
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,546
    edited September 2014
    Lol. :oD

    I think we can agree that Alien was hardly the norm for its time. But that's why i stopped with 70's. FX was beginning to take over. It's often the case (like Jaws) that directors were only doing suspense for lack of funds for the fx they wanted. Many great moments are down to a forced hand rather than choice.

    Today's industry is what happens when given that free choice. Largely mindless FX movies (which i love, by the way) - but it's come at the loss of quality direction and story-telling, and is in some cases, forcing movies into pre-determined pigeonholes; kids movie vs adult movie.
  • ShibShib UKMember Posts: 5,154
    edited September 2014

    . Ghostbusters was fine apart from the trousers part but they didn't get that so no worries.

    This is a perfect example of where an adult watching a film might make a decision of 'this is inappropriate for a child' but references like that really do just go straight over kid heads. I often find myself watching a film i know that i'd watched as a child and being surprised by the odd scene like that which from childhood watching i didn't even remember.
    legomatt said:


    Today's industry is what happens when given that free choice. Largely mindless FX movies (which i love, by the way) - but it's come at the loss of quality direction and story-telling, and is in some cases, forcing movies into pre-determined pigeonholes; kids movie vs adult movie.

    I can think of so many films that people rave about that i find unwatchable because they are just glorified fx showcases with no storyline, most of them seem to fall into the 15 rating in the UK, with the occasional 12 rating.

  • icey117icey117 DenmarkMember Posts: 503
    I really disagree with all the complaining here. Sure more Hobbit seta would be nice, and a few are reperative (triple dol goldur, double lake town) but generally i find it a nice line.

    With the exception of "Attack of the Warg" + "ambush at dol goldur". But compared to other lines I think its ok.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 17,570
    I grew up on horror like this ...

    image

    Fortunately lego gives us the actor specific parts to recreate that.
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