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  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Well most of these bad sellers will have a buy it now with multiples of the items, as in the above seller, he has sold hundreds and hundreds of new sets in the last few months and even has an Ebay store full of new sets and has a large number of BIN auctions currently running. It can fool a person into thinking it is legit if you look at the huge number of happy customers he has.

    Looking back at the feedback history of this seller, the account is a few years old and before July of this year there were no Lego sales, just minor odds and ends, suddenly boom, he starts selling only Legos and tons of them at exceptionally good prices!! It looks like an account that was maybe dormant and hacked by this person, I don't know for sure, but something went wrong. Like I told the Lego people, I doubted anyone was making money selling me a set for 189.00 each and the billing party is charged 249.99 plus tax for a total of 264.00!! Doesn't sound like a moneymaking venture to me.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,220
    I think you have to be more worried about guys selling 8 of a new set for a low price. Check their items for sale, if they have 8 of one item, and you ask yourself 'how can he sell them so low?', then it is probably a fraudulent listing....
    Also, many of these seller do have low feedback ratings.. not all (as obvious to this thread), but many do, or at least did in my time seeing these on eBay.

  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    edited November 2011
    @dremel99, was the UK seller named Andy? Was his paypal account [email protected]? Was his email account also a yahoo account (different name from paypal account)?

    This was the bastard who dropshipped my Bricklink order from LEGO back in July. His store has since been shut down as of 9/28. His store opened up in May of this year.
  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    To add to the above: that banned UK seller sold only new current sets, no discountinued sets, no parts, no minfigs at 25-30% off.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    @dremel99, was the UK seller named Andy? Was his paypal account [email protected]? Was his email account also a yahoo account (different name from paypal account)?

    This was the bastard who dropshipped my Bricklink order from LEGO back in July. His store has since been shut down as of 9/28. His store opened up in May of this year.
    No , this isn't the same guy as that, someone named the seller I have been talking about at the start if this thread, I haven't repeated the name in my posts, this seller is still selling many many new sets on Ebay and also has a current store on Ebay full of new Lego sets.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Man, what an ordeal.

    Earlier in this thread I made my own comments about a similar situation. After reading and investigating more, I decided to be pro-active and get the ball rolling with Lego.com.

    The seller is claiming innocence, of course. He refused to cancel shipment and to refund my purchase. I won my auction for $50, shipped. It costs $100 from Lego.

    I called Lego after I won and paid to see if there were any orders in the system that were to be shipped to me. They confirmed that an order was placed for the item that I won and scheduled to be shipped to me. They of course could not tell me the name of who ordered it, or how they paid for it, etc. I just know for a fact that the seller is definitely drop-shipping to me.

    I took screenshots of everything that I could relevant to the situation: eBay screens, Paypal payments, and even the tracking number that the seller provided me with.

    Lego advised me to forward all documentation to one of their email addresses, but I've yet to hear back from them. The item from the seller is scheduled to arrive tomorrow (Nov. 16). I guess I should refuse it? I kind of hope to hear back from Lego before then so I can have some firm direction. But if the seller is refusing a refund, and his auction terms DO state no returns... I guess I'm concerned that if I refuse the package, the seller will have met all of his obligations and Paypal will side with him and not refund my purchase.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    edited November 2011
    Odindusk,

    I would open it and verify that the Lego invoice Bill To address is the same as the sellers address, if it is, there is no problem. If it is billed to another person then I would email the seller that it looks questionable and you would like to return it back to Lego and want a refund. If he refuses a refund then tell him you will contact Lego and provide them with documentation and then contact Paypal and inform them of your concern.

    If the billing looks questionable annd possibly fraudulent then the item "Is not as described" and Paypal will refund you. They usually are pretty good that way.

    Especially if you contact Lego and they give you a reference number for your case, you can give it to Paypal and that will add weight to your side.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    edited November 2011
    It's interesting to me that while on the phone with Lego, they said they could not disclose details of this order, other than to confirm that it was heading my way. But you say inside the box I should find a slip of some sort stating who it was invoiced to?

    I sure hope that's the case. I will open it tomorrow and go from there!

    Thanks for the response, demel99.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Odindusk,

    I would open it and verify that the Lego invoice Bill To address is the same as the sellers address, if it is, there is no problem.
    Follow-up question: where do I even find this? The best I can seem to do about finding his address listed anywhere is "United Kingdom". Should I be able to see his full address somewhere in eBay/Paypal?

  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Yes, if it is shipped from Lego there should be a big yellow invoice in the bottom of the box. Look at your Paypal reciept, it should have his name there. compare the two.

  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    The only thing I am not sure of, can someone when ordering from Lego, mark it as a gift and then Lego won't include an invoice? Maybe someon else can answer that. But yes you shoul dbe getting an invoice in your set with the Bill to address and the ship to address. Goodluck!, I hope your is legit.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    My Paypal receipt shows his email address and company name. No name or physical address listed here.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Well wait until you get your set and if the invoice shows it being billed to some person here in the U.S., it is probably not good. Can you give me a link to this persons auctions on Ebay?
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Sure.

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/mikem063/m.html?item=200674175156&sspagename=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&_trksid=p4340.l2562
    OK, I had looked at this sellers auctions before but never ordered from him. I can see some danger flags right off, first look at a couple of his completed items.

    10195 Republic Dropship sold for 205.00. Keep in mind he has to pay Ebay and Paypal fees so he may net 185.00 on this sale. Now he orders this from Lego and they are selling it for 249.99 plus tax in some states. How is he making money netting 180.00 and purchasing for 249.99 plus tax?

    Hogwarts Castle, he sold it for 113.01, so he nets maybe 100.00. The set on Lego sells for 129.99 plus tax. I can't see that as a good profit!

    PLUS he limits you to ONLY 2 items?? why? if I had a lot of these sets in stock I would be happy if one person bought all of them. Lego has dollar limits in place when shipping to third party, too many dollars to a single address will trigger a review of order.

    Anytime someone out of the U.S. is selling new Lego sets with all Free shipping it is because LEGO offers the free shipping and they are simply dropshipping.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    of course I left out the main two danger signs, shipping from Southaven, MS,
    and U.K seller.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    and the fact he has sold 500 sets since Nov. 1st
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    I ordered from this guy. He is in the UK and dropshipping directly from Lego USA. He has purchased a few hundred US cc numbers and is doing the rounds. Happens all too frequently on ebay. I contacted ebay and Lego but none seem to care (both outfits are making $$$ of course). I estimate he is taking $5k per day. I stopped short of contacting the guy my order was invoiced to...in the end the credit card bank is going to have to eat the fee and I don't feel bad for US banks right now...sorry.

    This guy used to be a social worker in the UK but lost his license....apparently moved onto bigger and better things. I would have guessed his account might have been hijacked but his english and skills are too good for the usual suspects...i know it is him - you can read about him here:

    http://www.salfordonline.com/witnessappeal.php?func=viewdetails&vdetails=22101

    and the plot thickens here:

    http://www.freelancer.com/projects/eBay/Dominic-Bowkett-dropshippers-required.html

    As usual the big red flags are all the positive feedbacks early on from shills (the private listings).
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    I mean if this was legit I would be doing it. I have credit cards and if I could sell 500 sets a month, and even if I only profit 5.00 on each set, that is 2500.00 per month for doing nothing but entering the order. If it was legit everyone would sell like this.

    The reason everyone is not doing it, is because you can not make money consistently selling new sets on Ebay and purchasing them on Lego [email protected]

    But what hooked me and everyone else is the price coupled with the great feedback and free shipping. It looks good at first glance, but the devil is in the details!
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    doriansdad,

    Yes that is the person who I ordered several sets from, same name!! his Ebay name is discmaker and he has a Ebay store DBLego. Luckily he was quick to refund, seemed very friendlt, quick to respond to emails, and Lego did care in my instance and wanted all the info I could give them.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    ^ The guy knows his main account is going to flame out shortly so is recruiting others to sell through. If I was really diligent I would ask questions and see what time I get replies to figure out if it's more than one guy helping as well. Given the $$$ involved that would not surprise me at all. Will be an interesting case to follow in the months ahead.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    And here is our rockstar in the flesh:

    http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1458220_pervert-trapped-after-salford-schoolgirl--wrote-his-car-registration-number-on-her-hand

    Jail time for credit card fraud but not for this apparently.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Wow! Very interesting, so that is who he is!
  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    Damn, you guys are good!
  • andystarandystar Member Posts: 275
    Also, be careful before ordering from this person on EBAY http://myworld.ebay.com/mikem063&ssPageName=STRK:MEFSX:SELLERID&_trksid=p3984.m1543.l2533
    Too many flags.... all new lego sets, only thing selling, etc
  • Rollo_TomassiRollo_Tomassi Member Posts: 113
    For all the trouble those phone calls were (an hour on the phone???), Lego should just tell you to keep it.

    Just my 2 cents worth, if that is worth anything. :)
    For his honesty alone, they should at least give him some extra VIP points. That kind of proactiveness is rare. He was like Scooby-Doo making the connection between the Billing Address and the seller's location and all that. :-)

  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    eBay finally shut down Dom's main selling account. No doubt he has a few other sellers recruited into the fold to continue the operation. I figured he has taken in close to $300k by now.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Wow, your right, discmaker is no more as well as his store. Now we need to get rid of the rest on there as well, such as Mikem* as mentioned above. Although as you say, he is not really gone, he has just recruited someone else to continue on with selling under another account.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Here is the last Negative feedback left for him on Nov. 15th.

    lego.com cancelled the order due to fraud, police called to get info on seller Buyer:


    Sure glad I contacted Lego before Police called me!!
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Update on my situation with the other seller:

    I spent a good hour rounding up screenshots, printing stuff out, crafting some emails to Lego and Paypal. Lego must have agreed that something looked fishy because they put a halt on the shipment and it's on its way back to Lego. When I confronted the seller about this he must have seen the writing on the wall and FINALLY agreed to refund me. This was after several emails of him laughing at my accusation and saying he has nothing to hide, and refusing to refund.

  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Update on my situation with the other seller:

    I spent a good hour rounding up screenshots, printing stuff out, crafting some emails to Lego and Paypal. Lego must have agreed that something looked fishy because they put a halt on the shipment and it's on its way back to Lego. When I confronted the seller about this he must have seen the writing on the wall and FINALLY agreed to refund me. This was after several emails of him laughing at my accusation and saying he has nothing to hide, and refusing to refund.

    That's great, glad you got it resolved now instead of later.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Yeah, thanks for the insight of you and others!

    The stupid thing is... the set I bought from him... I can buy it for $15 more on Black Friday at Target. $15 is WAY worth the difference to not have to go through this crap.

    I feel badly for the hundreds of people that will likely have to prove their defense down the line when the authorities come calling.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    I left negative for the seller. Hopefully buyers stop to think twice about buying from him now.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    Good, I am glad you left him a negative however I fear it will be lost in a sea of positives in a day or two. But maybe you stopped a few people from becoming victims!
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    lol was in the middle of slinging emails back and forth with the seller, and the last thing I get back is a notice from eBay that my last message wasn't sent because the seller is no longer a registered member.

    That didn't take long. Seller maintains innocence, so in the event that what he was doing is legit, then that sucks for him. If he can prove his case it will get straightened out. But all signs point to being a fraudulent practice.
  • avoiceoreasonavoiceoreason Member Posts: 224
    I just read this thread today, but this happened to me around this time last year. I ordered a Green Grocer cheap and then noticed that the item was drop shipped from Lego with expedited shipping from an address and name that didn't match the seller.

    I poked around eBay and found about eight or nine different accounts all doing the same things as described above (selling only high value new sets below MSRP, providing free expedited shipping, etc.). I contacted Lego about it and they couldn't have been more disinterested.

    At first they said they aren't responsible for any Lego items being sold in the secondary market. I followed up saying they should be since these are essentially stolen goods and Lego will eventually pay the price for them via credit-card chargebacks. They basically responded that there is nothing they could do. For some reason I pressed the issue sending them links to each of the seller's accounts and current and past auctions. They e-mailed back saying they couldn't locate any of the accounts/items. What? I could still locate all of them.

    Of course a day later all of the accounts I flagged had been closed and all information on current and past auctions from those sellers disappeared. So someone, somewhere followed up on my information.

    I estimate I saved Lego approximately $150,000-$250,000 last holiday season by shutting these things down. I asked (selfishly I realize) if perhaps a gift card or some VIP points might be provided as a sort of reward. They said pretty directly, No, but I can sometimes find discounts on the lego.com website. Gee, thanks.

    I was just so taken aback by Lego's attitude. I have had nothing put very positive experiences with Lego customer service otherwise, but this one just baffled me. No thank you. Not even the slightest hint of appreciation. It was more like I was annoying them.

    You would think they could hire some guy/girl and pay them $30-$40k a year just to look for fraud like this. It clearly isn't too hard to identify and it would save them a boatload in chargebacks and legal fees.
  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    @Odindusk, now that you sent that Mike guy packing and is no longer a registered user, did you notice that your negative feedback got wiped out? I remember reading your comment about the stolen CC numbers and THINK people and his half-assed reply about you have been warned and now poof! 0 negative feedback? Why did Ebay do that?
  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    Gotcha. I see now that you revised your negative to a positive feedback.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    ^^ avoiceoreason sorry to say but you actually cost Lego $150k - $250k in sales. If a chargeback is initiated due to fraud then the credit card bank covers the loss not the merchant as long as they follow the verification proceedures listed in their merchant agreement which Lego certainly does (i.e. collecting the cc account name, number, exp date and security code). I contacted them a few weeks ago and of course they were disinterested as well...our friend Dom was a very good salesman for them. Looks like Dom's operation is put on hold for now but he will be back before too long.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    I am not so sure about that, what your talking about is card in hand at a store, different rules apply for over the phone or internet. Lego told me they would get the chargeback and then turn it over to the police.

    Here is an article explaining this more, taken from http://www.wiscocomputing.com

    MERCHANT CREDIT CARD FRAUD
    31 Ways to Minimize Credit Card Fraud


    INTRODUCTION:


    This article suggests preventative methods and post-order procedures that merchants can perform to minimize credit card fraud.

    When a brick and mortar merchant accepts a credit card, and the charge is authorized, and assuming the merchant conforms to regulation, the merchant will get paid, even if a stolen card is used.

    Liability for fraud shifts from the card issuer to the merchant for 'Card Not Present' sale (mail order, telephone/fax order, and internet sales). The merchant is generally liable for credit card charge backs, even when the bank has authorized the transaction. After a merchant is stung by a fraud, the credit card processors often hike their rates, citing increased risk. The merchant also risks losing their accounts with the card companies if their fraud rate gets too high.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    ^ I can guarantee you Lego.com has a clause in their merchant agreement that covers them from fraudulent transactions processed online otherwise their losses would be astronomical. Unless its poor product or service then the credit card bank will eat the bill.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Gotcha. I see now that you revised your negative to a positive feedback.
    That was in response to something eBay sent to me right after I left the first negative feedback; a warning about slander, etc. I had a feeling in my gut that eBay/Lego were going to move quickly on this guy and I thought he only had a day or two left with an active account. I didn't want any more trouble for myself, so I thought to reverse my feedback for the time being. I had no idea he was going to be shutdown within minutes though!

  • JasenJasen Member Posts: 283
    Maybe this thread should be renamed to CSI: Lego :D

    I would never had understood these scams until reading this thread. I wasn't oblivious to them, just unsure of the process. Thanks - I guess.
  • LambringoLambringo Member Posts: 104
    wow. If there was ever a listing that screamed fraud it is this one.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LEGO-Star-Wars-Death-Star-10188-DeathStar-BRAND-NEW-/120814080259?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c21149103#ht_961wt_1396

    10188 Death Star, USD$118 Buy Now, Listed from Australia but in USD, feedback of 10 with the last one in 2008. States in the description that the photos are their own and you can not use them (they are stock images and one of a LEGO brand shipping box).


    I feel sorry the the person who has purchased the 1 that has sold already.

    I decided to query the seller

    "I would like to know how you can sell this item for $120 USD and why, if you are from Australia the price is in USD. Is there some sort of defect with the product. I can clearly see other listings of the same item selling for over $600. The deal just seem too good to be true. I hope that this is not dropshipping or credit card fraud. I look forward to your response."
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,220
    Gotcha. I see now that you revised your negative to a positive feedback.
    That was in response to something eBay sent to me right after I left the first negative feedback; a warning about slander, etc. I had a feeling in my gut that eBay/Lego were going to move quickly on this guy and I thought he only had a day or two left with an active account. I didn't want any more trouble for myself, so I thought to reverse my feedback for the time being. I had no idea he was going to be shutdown within minutes though!

    You do need to be careful about slander when leaving a negative, stick to the facts, not feelings and you will be fine.

    I also believe that eBay has an automated system in place that yanks an account when x amount of neg feedback is received in a set amount of time.
    I think this is so eBay does not need people sitting at a database looking at feedbacks all day and night to stop bad sellers.
    Then when an account gets suspended eBay investigates, but that is just my guess.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    ^^ Lambringo this is a very common Chinese scam. They will ship you with tracking and delivery confirmation either an empty box or a flash card etc. Thanks to the poor systems in place by Paypal and eBay you have no recourse as the seller has proof of delivery. Why they always go with the Deathstar playset is beyond me.
  • LambringoLambringo Member Posts: 104
    No message response from the seller, but I did report the listing to eBay as possible fraud and it is no longer listed, for now.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    ^^ Lambringo this is a very common Chinese scam. They will ship you with tracking and delivery confirmation either an empty box or a flash card etc. Thanks to the poor systems in place by Paypal and eBay you have no recourse as the seller has proof of delivery. Why they always go with the Deathstar playset is beyond me.
    Well they would have to have proof of shipping you an item with the correct weight. An empty box or flash card would be too light and Paypal would easily see that. Paypal told me that if someone would ship me a box of rocks that they look at the seller and buyer, and determine if the seller is new, from out of the country and other feedback, and then would most likely side with the buyer.

    The seller would for sure need a reciept showing the correct shipping weight of a Deathstar.

    I have had several cases through the years and Paypal has always fixed them for me.
  • dremel99dremel99 Member Posts: 123
    And worse case scenario would be that the item is "not as described" and you would have to return the item with Delivery Confirmation. The buyer has all the power in a Paypal transaction most all of the time.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    ^^ EMS form is completely filled out in Mandarin...no english weight listed. Google for the horror stories. You will have no recourse whatsoever. Refusing delivery is your only hope. Good luck.
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