Tampered Boxes

madforLEGO · March 2013

^--- nice, should be done everywhere (at least in US, as I think privacy laws in Europe do not allow for this)

dougts · March 2013

jasor said:
Someone mentioned SOMEWHERE in the forum that they picked up a Rancor Pit, and the second wave of boxes were punchout.

Maybe TLG is realizing the threat of the beast they created with minifig fanaticism.

I've seen recent examples of the same set being sold in both taped and punch-out versions, even at the same time. when it first came out I picked up a couple of A-wings from the LEGO store, and a couple more from a local retailer. The ones from LEGO were punchout, the ones from the retailer were taped. Pretty sure I saw another example of this recently but can't remember the specific set.

Last year, my TIE fighter box from TRU when it first was released was a punchout, but I saw others on the shelves since then that were taped

jasor · March 2013

^^ That's so weird. Maybe varies by production facility?

Brickarmor · March 2013

^ No idea, but the Pit I just bought at Target was back to taped seals. O_o

TRU is putting anti-theft tags on every Lego set now. Impossible to remove without skinning the box. It's practical for the retailer, bad for the collector.

TheLoneTensor · March 2013

Brickarmor said:
^ No idea, but the Pit I just bought at Target was back to taped seals. O_o

TRU is putting anti-theft tags on every Lego set now.

Are you referring to the straps or the little blue-green sticker tags? I have seen only the straps on sets > $100 at my TRUs and the stickers very rarely.

Btw, this won't stop people from doing a break-reseal-return scam.

Brickarmor · March 2013

Just the stickers, not the "screaming spiders" thank goodness. I think it's a response to that case some months back where the kid (age 40) and his mommy (70+) were filling wagon boxes and such with Lego and Vtech and so forth. For what it's worth I've told the managers at my TRU and Target to always inspect the seals on any returned sets very carefully.

TheLoneTensor · March 2013

Yknow it's funny, because I have never, ever seen anyone actually stopped for setting off the door alarms, in any store, anywhere. The alarm goes off, the person looks up and in the direction of the cashier they just came from, the cashier then says something like "it's ok, you're good" and off they go.

I'm sure people do actually get stopped sometimes, but I haven't seen it yet.

jasor · March 2013

Back when i was a bit more rebellious, when i would set off one of those, I would look around nervously, and run out the door. That draws some looks.

Once, a security guard got me before exiting the building. I showed him my receipt, and said "what?" Good times, good times.

DaddyDeuce · March 2013

As long as nobody ever opens the box, it really doesn't matter what is inside it.

"There is the old story about the market craze in sardine trading when the sardines disappeared from their traditional waters in Monterey, California. The commodity traders bid them up and the price of a can of sardines soared. One day a buyer decided to treat himself to an expensive meal and actually opened a can and started eating. He immediately became ill and told the seller the sardines were no good. The seller said, 'You don't understand. These are not eating sardines, they are trading sardines.'"

Thanos75 · March 2013

I remember in my younger days removing those tags and sticking them to other customers carts so that they would go off when they tried to leave...the silly things we do when we are young and bored.

mr_benn · September 2013

Just been doing a bit of sorting and opened up a #9469 that I got for about £3 from Asda recently... was quite surprised therefore to find that the box had been opened, contents removed and re-glued (quite well done as the thumb tab wasn't obviously broken from the outside). It was filled with some random stuff. Megablehs, those weird Hama plastic beads you iron on to stick them together... and inexplicably a bag of small Lego parts and some other random bits from what I think are one of the Turtles sets.

Having picked up several for a bargainous price I'm more amused than anything else (why refill with actual Lego when you clearly have MB knocking around?!) but this is the first time I've seen this happen in the UK to my knowledge. Came from Asda in Watford. Be careful out there!

Xefan · September 2013

Bought a knocked down Whitecap Bay for £20, knocked down because the minifigs had clearly been nicked so yeah it does seem to happen - people buy things, open, take select parts, then return.

BRC · September 2013

This is just an act of thievery, they are scum for doing it.

Coyotelily · September 2013

Bought 2 gandalf arrives from tesco some time ago boxes were bashed but I think they were £4 each so I wasn't bothered, when we got them home we opened them up only to find that the horses which were loose inside these boxes had been removed, boxes had been revealed with Sellotape!

woodland_observer · September 2013

Had this happen a few years ago, not once but twice, with an 8097 Slave I from Argos. Bought the first one online, noticed that the seals looked like they'd been 'picked off' and replaced. Sure enough, no minifigures inside. Phoned Argos and they tried to blame Lego, saying that it must have come from the factory like that! Anyway, took it to the local store and swapped it for another one. Get home and find whole bags missing and filled with random bits and bobs. Finally swapped it again for a properly sealed set, but it put me off using Argos for Lego.

tof · September 2013

Regarding Argos, I bought some series 9 minifigures not long ago, and the 10 I bought had a little number in the back. It turns out the number was the brick link number of the mini figure! someone dishonest must have bought many of them, feeled them at home and brought back the ones that were not interesting....

trickydicky0880 · September 2013

This happened at my local Walmart in the U.S. I bought the Uruk-Hai Army 9471 about a year ago and was extremely excited because this was my first Lord of the Rings set. When I opened it up, all of the the minifigs and horse were missing! Ladrones!

Jezzatheshed · September 2013

Not been caught myself yet but the mischief goes on local to me. My nearest Asda store keeps getting one off sets appearing which will not scan as they are not on the stores system (and never have been) . I can only assume they come into the store as returns from Asda's online shopping. All the ones Ive seen like this appear to have the glued ends re-stuck and have the rattle which says things are not in their crispy bags. I actually get the feeling some mum is using the online shop as a kind of toy library!

augen · September 2013

I've not known any to be resealed and returned, but a few years ago, I bought a large amount from TRU that I had pre-ordered online and collected. When I got home, I noticed that one of the large SW sets had a hole punched in it and the small packs with the minifigs had been removed. Fortunately, TRU agreed to replace the set, albeit with a different one as they didn't have any more in stock.

ACWWGal2011 · September 2013

tof said:
Regarding Argos, I bought some series 9 minifigures not long ago, and the 10 I bought had a little number in the back. It turns out the number was the brick link number of the mini figure! someone dishonest must have bought many of them, feeled them at home and brought back the ones that were not interesting....

except for the number part, that's getting to pretty common here in the states lately.

Can't blame them though.

LegoMom1 · September 2013

Seems like it's time for Lego to start shrink wrapping boxes.

madforLEGO · September 2013

Well there is a thread on Brickset about this, and I think someone said the best thing, which is that tape that either leaves marks when lifted (anti theft tape), or you use bigger pieces of tape to make it more likely that someone trying to remove them will screw up and tear something.

Legoboy · September 2013

Removing tape is not required when the glued joins in the box can be split apart and be glued shut again. The boxes need to be shrink wrapped. It won't guarantee the most determined won't gain entry but it will deter the average Joe.

Having said that, if a strip of antitheft tape was placed over the glued cardboard edges as well as the opening parts then yes, that would work.....or at least help.

Jonn420 · September 2013

My son bought an Agents set back in the day was missing the figures, and EVERY DK book that comes to my Target, 2 walmarts ...ex has had the minifigures stolen/swapped.i have to buy them soon as i see a fresh stock or i miss out on the book figures.

Cam_n_Stu · September 2013

BRC said:
This is just an act of thievery, they are scum for doing it.

It has not happened to me yet - I hope, he says looking at a pile of unopened sets! However I agree it is pretty nasty when there is a good chance a set is going to be a present for some kid.

kwkw · September 2013

So I bought the new #60026 Town Square from my local TRU this morning (with 25% coupon and rewards so a decent deal) and look at what I found when I opened it tonight. Repackaged dog food, it's even sealed in the original lego numbered bags lol Funny thing is that I chose the set with the security seal on it so that this very thing wouldn't happen as opposed to selecting the other #60026 set without a security seal. Oh the irony! Well back to TRU tomorrow morning... So this sets up an interesting question, what is the weirdest thing you've found in a stolen/replaced Lego set?

yys4u · September 2013

I guess they figured dog food makes a similar sound to LEGO bricks when in boxes lol

kwkw · September 2013

^It did sound pretty convincing lol

tom4086 · September 2013

I'd be interested in how this plays out. How would TRU know you hadn't replaced the lego with dog food? And it was someone else?

Paperballpark · September 2013

That's pretty ruff.

princedraven · September 2013

Funny tail. Hope you get your replacement chum!

TheCableGuy · September 2013

That's the thing with TRU, there is the odd time that you lose, but hopefully in the long run you will come out ahead and Winalot!

Brickarmor · September 2013

Madness. What flavor is it?

Paperballpark · September 2013

I wonder if they did that to all of them? That would show dogged determination and would really take the biscuit.

Daragh · September 2013

You say that the security seal was still intact, how did they get in to it?

kwkw · September 2013

@Daragh some scumbag bought the set, returned it and then TRU put the security device back on it.

madforLEGO · September 2013

Scum have been doing such tactics for a while now, and I can only hope these people get caught and go to jail for life(or chop these people's hand off when they catch em). I was a victim of this with two #7938 LEGO passenger train sets of all things.
I picked up two 7938s from a TRU during a BOGO and found turbo tank parts in both.
Mercifully, TRU took the return and allowed me to order two new one from online via the B&M store.
After this I refuse to buy any kind of set from Brick and mortar stores, unless they have those punch seals (which apparently do not stop these scumbags either now) or its a LEGO store, only because they check the boxes pretty well when they get returns, at least by the one by me.
I have occasionally broke my own rule with sets at Target (but usually because I have a set I got from someplace like Amazon or LEGO.com that I can compare the weight on-and it helps to have a mail scale).

I solely blame LEGO for this, if they would do better to seal their boxes (with theft proof, and larger, tape and or shrinkwrap with LEGO emblazoned on it) then this type of crap would not occur or at least would not occur as easily as it can now.

it is sad that we have a thread asking what the strangest thing you have found in a LEGO for it to have become that commonplace.

kwkw · September 2013

on my way to TRU now. I'll update after I get back

emilewski · September 2013

What really sucks is for the people who like to keep MISB sets or leave sets unopened for many months before they get around to building it, and THEN discover what the contents are.

Phonebooth · September 2013

madforLEGO said:

I solely blame LEGO for this, if they would do better to seal their boxes (with theft proof, and larger, tape and or shrinkwrap with LEGO emblazoned on it) then this type of crap would not occur or at least would not occur as easily as it can now.

Seriously? It's TLG's fault that people STEAL Lego?

Bumblepants · September 2013

^He is saying their current packaging makes it too easy.

kwkw · September 2013

Good news, they let me exchange the set (and open it there too) and the manager said that she would look into finding this guy :) so hopefully this scumbag gets what's coming to him. I'm actually kind of happy this happened to me instead of some kid opening this set up on Christmas morning...

madforLEGO · September 2013

Bumblepants said:
^He is saying their current packaging makes it too easy.

This. LEGO used to have much better packaging on their larger sets, then went to these 4 cheesy little pieces of tape for these larger boxes (that people are more likely to want to get the contents of).
As you cannot really blame a store for taking returns, especially when these boxes go to a service counter looking like they came off of the shelf.
So Yes I blame LEGO for allowing it to be easier to occur. Especially when LEGO could obviously do a better job, but appear to choose not too.
I see they could do 3 things:
-Theftproof tape and covering a larger portion of the box
-shrinkwrap the boxes
-windows into the package to see the contents

Now I understand the whole 'window' thing may be pricey, but the better tape and shrink-wrapping with the LEGO logo cannot be that hard to do.
Could stores try to tighten up their return policy by documenting into a database to try to thwart the same group of people constantly returning boxes? Sure, but then there are legality issues I believe to this, especially in Europe if I am not mistaken.
I believe this is more the responsibility of the manufacturer to tighten up their boxing practices.

kwkw said:
Good news, they let me exchange the set (and open it there too) and the manager said that she would look into finding this guy :) so hopefully this scumbag gets what's coming to him. I'm actually kind of happy this happened to me instead of some kid opening this set up on Christmas morning...

Yeah TRU usually is pretty understanding, as they offered the same to me, but they did not have any of the trains in stock at the time.

Xefan · September 2013

To be fair they could use seals like you get on XBox 360 games, that you can tear with your fingers but that are only provided by Microsoft to the manufacturer of the discs themselves. Given Lego produce their own products it'd be trivial for them to do this at their factories and make sure said seals remain under lock and key, carefully protected and audited.

If Lego put something like this on boxes then it'd be pretty foolproof. Determined thieves could still make convincing looking ones, but I suspect if they had to go to that effort there'd be easier things to do than steal Lego out of boxes.

The problem right now with the punch boxes is that you can still split the seal where the box meets so the solution is to protect the seal itself.

Though I'm not sure I'd agree it's necessarily Lego's fault, I think only the thieves and Toys R Us can be blamed - why don't Toys R Us check these things before re-attaching a security seal?

Phonebooth · September 2013

madforLEGO said:

Bumblepants said:
^He is saying their current packaging makes it too easy.
IT'S THE SCUMBAG'S FAULT.

madforLEGO · September 2013

It is the manufacturers duty to stop this, as this has been going on now for some time and the MANUFACTURER has not done enough to stop people from tampering the boxes. Ultimately this affects the MANUFACTURER's bottom line as many of these boxes are return as factory defects.
It is in the MANUFACTURERS best interest to stop the scumbags that obviously are not going to stop themselves.
Are the scumbags taking advantage of the situation? Yes, they are breaking the law and stealing and they should be dealt with appropriately. However, if LEGO is going to use shoddy protection on their packaging that they know is inferior then they are just as to blame for those who open a box and find dog food.
I think they asked the scumbags to stop, and they will not (cause they are scumbags), so it falls on the manufacturer to install some confidence in their product packaging to know that what you are getting is really what is supposed to be there.

Phonebooth · September 2013

madforLEGO said:
LEGO is going to use shoddy protection on their packaging that they know is inferior then they are just as to blame for those who open a box and find dog food.
I think they asked the scumbags to stop, and they will not (cause they are scumbags), so it falls on the manufacturer to install some confidence in their product packaging to know that what you are getting is really what is supposed to be there.

You probably believe that spoons make people fat, too.

(some) people are scumbags. How is this any different than stealing? Lego could put sets in Titanium lockboxes. Still their fault if a scumbag steals the lockbox?

LegoFanTexas · September 2013

Phonebooth said:

madforLEGO said:

I solely blame LEGO for this, if they would do better to seal their boxes (with theft proof, and larger, tape and or shrinkwrap with LEGO emblazoned on it) then this type of crap would not occur or at least would not occur as easily as it can now.
Seriously? It's TLG's fault that people STEAL Lego?

No, but there does come a point where TLG has some responsibility to make their packages tamperproof.

Back in 1982 there was a scare over Tylenol.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Tylenol_murders

At the time, over the counter medication in the US wasn't tamper-proof and it was easy to do what was done.

That wasn't J&J's fault, but it would have been had they not changed their packaging in the future. Given the huge amount of money they spent to correct the problem and the efforts they went to, very publicly, I personally can give them a pass on that one.

I'd crucify them 10 times over if they had tried to cover it up and made no changes to their packaging.

TLG has a similar problem. So it has happened, ok, fair enough. What are they doing to make it harder to tamper with their products?

Nothing? Then they do carry some fault for future tampering because the solution is theirs to control.

At the end of the day, if a customer opens up a "sealed" LEGO set and it has been tampered with, that is TLG's problem to own and to solve.

madforLEGO · September 2013

Phonebooth said:

madforLEGO said:
LEGO is going to use shoddy protection on their packaging that they know is inferior then they are just as to blame for those who open a box and find dog food.
I think they asked the scumbags to stop, and they will not (cause they are scumbags), so it falls on the manufacturer to install some confidence in their product packaging to know that what you are getting is really what is supposed to be there.
You probably believe that spoons make people fat, too.

(some) people are scumbags. How is this any different than stealing? Lego could put sets in Titanium lockboxes. Still their fault if a scumbag steals the lockbox?

Have no idea where the left curve spoon argument came from as I do not see how that fits...

Did I ever say it was different than stealing? Hmmm, I do not believe so.. as a matter of fact I believe I mention it is stealing in previous comments, and have always agreed this is theft pure and simple. Bu I am trying to figure out why you are so against a company trying to stop said theft and failure of confidence in receiving the product people are paying for?
Especially when it would cost the sum of cents a box?
I guess you are saying that everyone should just rip open the box before buying it to see if the contents are present in the box and that it is the consumer whose fault it is for not doing this?

Apparently you think you can stop these people just with pleasant thoughts. So go ahead, I'll wait.. hmmm, nothing yet, they still seem to be scumbags, oh and by the way, again hard to catch. Partly due to poor efforts by LEGO to try to make it harder to allow this to occur.
I get that if someone tries hard enough they can take something, but it is a matter of making it harder to stop the majority doing it.
It is clear this is becoming a bigger and bigger issue, but apparently LEGO is still not doing anything about it.
Maybe the manufacturer of said 'sought after through ill gotten gains' objects (Stolen) should try to make it harder to steal said objects.

Or do you believe that cars should not have ignition keys? I mean it is up to people NOT to steal the car. So why have a key tumbler system in place to thwart car thieves.. or even locking mechanisms for the door? I mean it is up to people to NOT do these things, or cops to always catch them, right?

It is all about having the confidence to go buy a box of LEGO and get the LEGO that is on the box, not dog food, not other LEGO bricks or old LEGO brick.. It is a confidence, and in the companies best interest to project that confidence (and again LEGO also sees these return as 'defect's which means, I'm guessing here, that they take a loss on those sets)

Chang405 · September 2013

Is it LEGO's fault that there are scumbags? No
Is it LEGO's fault for making it easy for the scumbags to do their scummy deeds? Absolutely

If I leave a highly desirable item (lets say a gold IPhone5 S) on the dashboard of my car and some scumbag breaks my window and steals it. Can I honestly say I am not at fault for what subsequently transpired?

Tampered Boxes

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