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Only 1 VW Camper poly per household via [email protected]

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Comments

  • princedravenprincedraven Member Posts: 3,764
    @Xefan
    I can't be bothered to work all the quoting out, but:

    What I was disagreeing with was: "@princedraven You're showing a distinct lack of understanding as to how companies work."
    -You were not stating a fact, you were giving an opinion, of which I disagree. I believe TLG are making a wise decision on what they are doing.

    "My disagreement with you wasn't that TLG is doing well, but simply with your assertion that buying Lego indirectly could have no effect on the company - that's simply false."
    - If you re-read my post I did not say it would have no effect on the company. I just think they are happy with the effect it will have.

    "To assume no one on Brickset knows anything about business that would be of value to TLG is silly and to attach some kind of deity status to those that do run TLG shows a certain naivety of what's involved in running a successful company."
    - I assumed nothing of the sort, I know there are plenty of people here who know about business, myself included, but I sure as hell wouldn't claim that I could run a company who's processes and decisions I know nothing about, better than the person who is turning over constant profits for them currently. Now that is VERY naive.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas Member Posts: 8,404
    cheshirecat said:

    ^ Indeed, especially with [email protected] now customers have free delivery and hence no disincentive to create lots of £50.01 orders.

    ^ Yes, and if you go do that over at Amazon in a short period of time, they'll combine those orders into a single box (or a few large boxes) to save themselves shipping.

    The fact that TLG can't manage that is their own problem, not the customers.
    juggles7
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    Yet not if you do one each day of the month.

    You keep insisting on comparing with amazon. In the UK at least I cant think of one other online retailer that combines orders. In fact even amazon haven't been doing it that long. Any that do are probably at the other end of the scale.
    Dougout
  • juggles7juggles7 Member Posts: 451
    "Companies are under immense pressure to show growth quarter on quarter, year on year."
    Lego is privately-held, has issued no stock, and has no shareholders to pressure them to grow. Any pressure they are under is of their own making and cannot begin to compare to the pressure that publicly-traded companies feel.

    As for the one camper polybag per household, the reasons given for the strict enforcement don't hold water. The claim that the item is licensed? So was the Iron Man polybag. The claim that you can't buy more? You can buy more of the Iron Man polybag in some Lego stores now. And the one per household? That's been a poorly-communicated and seldom-enforced rule for a long time.

    I agree with the forum member who wrote that it was a shame that Lego started enforcing this one-per-household limit with this popular item. They should have done it with a less-desirable poly, like a Friends or Galaxy Squad that's seen release elsewhere, and used it to clearly communicate to shoppers that they're enforcing the one-per-household henceforth and forever more.

    They put their salespeople (same salespeople that just lost their purchase discount) in a bad situation, having to be stingy with customers (same customers that keep them in a job).

    And ordering online is another mini-disaster, checking out with a promotional polybag in your cart, and then receiving your order without it! Unforgiveable! This company seems determined to alienate their customers and their employees. And they have no one, no shareholders, to blame except themselves.

    Gurooo
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    No, they may be alienating a very small proportion of their customers, the vast majority will carry on without noticing. Happy to get a cool freebie, happy to get a free 10% off coupon which probably applies to the lego they are interested.

    Be unhappy, be unimpressed but let's not extrapolate to some massive demise of lego.
  • DaraghDaragh Member Posts: 363
    Following my order last night which would be my second this month, I just got email to advise it has shipped Camper Van listed on the dispatch note, so hopefully it will be in the box. . .
  • LegoboyLegoboy Member Posts: 8,827
    ^ I don't think anybody has seen it removed from the shipping notice yet.
    Daragh
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    i had one removed from an order even before getting a shipping note. the freebie now says cancelled, the rest 'in process'
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor Member Posts: 3,937
    cheshirecat said:

    No, they may be alienating a very small proportion of their customers, the vast majority will carry on without noticing. Happy to get a cool freebie, happy to get a free 10% off coupon which probably applies to the lego they are interested.

    Be unhappy, be unimpressed but let's not extrapolate to some massive demise of lego.

    I wonder if supporters of Romulus Augustulus said the same thing.

    Seriously, I get that some people have been a bit melodramatic about the impact this could have, but you are being equally obtuse by implying that it has no effect at all. Can't we just agree that there is an effect, but whether it will have lasting impact or not remains to be seen?
    Yellowcastle
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas Member Posts: 8,404
    The issue is that the decision making that led to this decision tends to lead to other decisions that will have a greater impact.

    Sooner or later they will do something that does impact the average Joe, what will you say then?
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    Seriously? Its a poly bag, one that by definition you already have at least one of. Thats the bottom line of this particular argument.

    In my defense ive always said it could be handled better, the lack of consistency, the poorly implemented IT etc. That its understandable to be unhappy. However, it is what it is and no more. Everyone likes to call things straw arguments around here, it may be applicable to call an afol who threatens to never buy lego again over an extra polybag a straw afol?
    CCCDougout
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^^ @LFT no, because you're assuming that the decision made is a bad one despite not having any clue as to the reasoning behind it. Ive been effected by this one, as mentioned above ive had one cancelled and expect to have lots removed/cancelled. Im fine with that, perhaps because im not trying to recoup money by flogging them on ebay?
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    edited September 2013
    While we're at it, can you think of any other large online retailers that routinely combine orders beyond Amazon? Ive tried to think of one but coming up short. What about dealing with orders made on different days?

    These terrible decision makers at [email protected], was it terrible when they introduced free delivery? Does that positive impact outweigh this negative? Would average Joe rather have year round free delivery and one free poly a month or pay for delivery and have just lots of freebies a month (so long as they pay delivery each time).

    The reality appears to be that they are doing a very good job of looking after the average Joe, perhaps at the expense of a certain segment of their customers?
  • XefanXefan Member Posts: 1,148
    I suppose that depends whether more average Joes are getting the campers that afols were gathering or if there's simply less campers. If it's the latter then I don't think anyone other than Lego is benefiting from reduced promo costs.

    FWIW if that is the case and TLG wants to save money I'd prefer less promos but plenty of stock and high quality for the ones they do do like the camper. Without knowing the logic though behind this move it's anyone's guess as to who benefits.
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited September 2013
    I agree that TLG needs to get its ordering platform sorted out so that if a free item is not going to be provided, then it does not appear at all during the ordering process.

    But let's be honest. If TLG did that, do we really think the complaints about not getting a free VW polybag, or whatever, with an order will stop? I don't.
  • DadDad Member Posts: 816
    edited September 2013
    cheshirecat said:

    While we're at it, can you think of any other large online retailers that routinely combine orders beyond Amazon? Ive tried to think of one but coming up short. What about dealing with orders made on different days?

    These terrible decision makers at [email protected], was it terrible when they introduced free delivery? Does that positive impact outweigh this negative? Would average Joe rather have year round free delivery and one free poly a month or pay for delivery and have just lots of freebies a month (so long as they pay delivery each time).

    The reality appears to be that they are doing a very good job of looking after the average Joe, perhaps at the expense of a certain segment of their customers?

    They didn't do a right good job of looking after average Joe when he wanted a #41999.

    maques
  • DadDad Member Posts: 816
    mountebank said:

    I agree that TLG needs to get its ordering platform sorted out so that if a free item is not going to be provided, then it does not appear at all during the ordering process.

    But let's be honest. If TLG did that, do we really think the complaints about not getting a free VW polybag, or whatever, with an order will stop? I don't.

    Maybe not...But it would have stopped me processing my order and placed it in October on double VIP points instead.....or maybe they didn't want me to do that?

  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^ you could just return it.
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    mountebank said:

    I agree that TLG needs to get its ordering platform sorted out so that if a free item is not going to be provided, then it does not appear at all during the ordering process.

    But let's be honest. If TLG did that, do we really think the complaints about not getting a free VW polybag, or whatever, with an order will stop? I don't.

    Probably. If you don't get something you didn't order then there is no complaint. There might not even be the second order either! I don't know how much free polys cost to make and give away, but I know I normally place a value of them to me of about £5-£10, and I have placed orders with them in the past for sets I might not have wanted that much just to get the polys. Without the incentive those sorts of orders will disappear.

    I might be willing to pay a little more with Lego rather than go with another company just because of a freebie. Again, follow up orders are unlikely if limits are imposed. So lack of a cheap poly may lose them £50 of direct sales.
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    edited September 2013
    mountebank said:

    I agree that TLG needs to get its ordering platform sorted out so that if a free item is not going to be provided, then it does not appear at all during the ordering process.

    But let's be honest. If TLG did that, do we really think the complaints about not getting a free VW polybag, or whatever, with an order will stop? I don't.

    I wouldn't. My problem still HOW the limit enforcing/removal is done.

    If the system wouldn't let me order more and I really wanted multiples of the freebie, then I'd ask my friends to make an order. (Most of my friends don't care about LEGO and would happily do it for me, without caring for a freebie, VIP points or anything alike.)

    BTW, in my country,
    - there is no LEGO store
    - average Joe buys LEGO in Tesco or other B&M toystore, maybe an online store, but most never heard of [email protected]
    - on [email protected] only Hardcore AFOL Jacks buy, and only those sets which not available elsewhere - checking top sellers gives it away - like Minecraft sets, DeLorean and "fillers"
    - I can sell a Minecraft set 1.5x any time on local e-markets, because average Joe only knows it is not available elsewhere
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    I can't say when I receive my orders from [email protected] without my camper van that I will be all that angry. Disappointed, yes, I will take all the free stuff I can get and I especially love the camper van, but it is no more dishonest not putting the camper van in the shipping box than placing extra orders when we all know the rules.

    This is part of the slow process of weaning people off of easily abused promos, phasing people into responsible sale buying and separating the customer from the reseller even more. We turn a blind eye to their policies and in response they show us their way of letting us know we should be holding ourselves personally accountable.

    Harsh policies and limits could easily be added to [email protected] and their retail stores and probably will be, but as this is a respected community, Lego wants its customers to hold themselves personally accountable rather than force them to act as the police. After all, punishment should not be the only incentive for not doing something considered wrong.
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    cheshirecat said:

    ^ you could just return it.

    I never returned anything, especially not a LEGO order, so I wonder, if I decide to return a shipment, who shall pay the cost of shipping back?
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    depends on where you are, but given the situation id be amazed if lego didnt pay for the return
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    Hungary (EU), but I got 1-1 vans for my two separate orders, so I'm ok.
    I was planning to make some more orders, but with the randomness of the "incentive", I likely skip. There is nothing on [email protected] I can't get anywhere else (cheaper) or I don't already have...
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    Dougout said:

    I can't say when I receive my orders from [email protected] without my camper van that I will be all that angry. Disappointed, yes, I will take all the free stuff I can get and I especially love the camper van, but it is no more dishonest not putting the camper van in the shipping box than placing extra orders when we all know the rules.

    This is part of the slow process of weaning people off of easily abused promos, phasing people into responsible sale buying and separating the customer from the reseller even more. We turn a blind eye to their policies and in response they show us their way of letting us know we should be holding ourselves personally accountable.

    Harsh policies and limits could easily be added to [email protected] and their retail stores and probably will be, but as this is a respected community, Lego wants its customers to hold themselves personally accountable rather than force them to act as the police. After all, punishment should not be the only incentive for not doing something considered wrong.

    It is dishonest if Lego state in an order that you will get something then remove it. And not telling you before the order is sent is worse.

    If they want to impose limits, it is fine but they need to handle freebies separately / differently. They should not add them to every order and then remove them later once that order is confirmed and paid and ready for delivery.
  • tom4086tom4086 Member Posts: 689
    ^Agreed.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton Member Posts: 2,967
    A large, clear line within an order summary that shows you're getting a free item surely overrides any smallprint to the contrary.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor Member Posts: 3,937
    ^^Good decisions do not balance bad decisions 1-1. It takes many good decisions to build something up, whereas it takes only a few bad ones to set things back, and one really bad one to tear them all down.

    Plus, this argument isn't centered around the polybag limit, bu
    maques said:

    cheshirecat said:

    ^ you could just return it.

    I never returned anything, especially not a LEGO order, so I wonder, if I decide to return a shipment, who shall pay the cost of shipping back?
    If it's a problem on their end (damaged item, crushed box, wrong item, missing item), they do. If it's that you simply decided against it, you do.
  • juggles7juggles7 Member Posts: 451
    Cheshire, I never predicted the demise of Lego. Re-read my post. And you assume anyone who wants more than 1 Volkswagen Camper mini is a scalper? Not necessarily. These would make good stocking stuffers for some adults I know who are not Lego fans. Frankly, I'm glad some people are selling them in the secondary market, because it's the only way I can get a spare or two. I blame Lego for this, for NOT giving people what they want, at any price.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton Member Posts: 2,967
    tensor said:

    ^^Good decisions do not balance bad decisions 1-1. It takes many good decisions to build something up, whereas it takes only a few bad ones to set things back, and one really bad one to tear them all down.

    Plus, this argument isn't centered around the polybag limit, bu

    maques said:

    cheshirecat said:

    ^ you could just return it.

    I never returned anything, especially not a LEGO order, so I wonder, if I decide to return a shipment, who shall pay the cost of shipping back?
    If it's a problem on their end (damaged item, crushed box, wrong item, missing item), they do. If it's that you simply decided against it, you do.
    No, I think that's wrong - they have to pay the return postage costs if you change your mind about wanting something. This is a right afforded to UK consumers under the Distance Selling Regulations, unless the retailer explicitly stipulates in their terms and conditions that the consumer must pay for the return postage. It doesn't look like they do, so they would have to refund the return postage costs, too.

    http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Return-Policy
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^ But that's for the UK only and maques isn't in the UK.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton Member Posts: 2,967
    Oops :)
  • jdylakjdylak Member Posts: 281
    paul_merton said:

    A large, clear line within an order summary that shows you're getting a free item surely overrides any smallprint to the contrary.

    How? It's not really small print to me. It's right there on "shop" page. So before you shop, you already know it's one per household. That "small print" are the offers terms. I don't get what is so hard about reading. Yes, you make your first order and get the offer. Do a second order, you should already know you are not going to get one as it clearly states it in the terms of the offer. So they pull it. You think if you could read you would know that.

  • princedravenprincedraven Member Posts: 3,764
    ^ And lets be honest, EVERYONE here know's that is the terms too.
    People are just mad because they didn't 'get away with it' this time...

    Crazy.
  • BumblepantsBumblepants Member Posts: 7,634
    I don't think many if any are questioning the terms. If Shop at Home adds a freebie to the shopping cart and the ship notification says it is coming, then you have a right to expect it when you open the package. If they want to subtract a 2nd freebie, do it upfront before the order is finalized and everyone will be cool with that.
  • princedravenprincedraven Member Posts: 3,764
    I agree that they could handle it better but the bottom line is that some people were 'trying it on' and it didn't come off; you can't then moan about the fact that your attempt to get something you were not due didn't work out.
    coachiecheshirecat
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    edited September 2013
    ^^Agree.
    I got 2 already but still when I visit [email protected], I get a half page banner on "FREE EXCLUSIVE MINI VOLKSWAGEN T1 CAMPER VAN"...

    From a multimillion dollar company with a slogen "only the best is good enough", I expect it to do better... Or maybe it is time to change the slogan...
    How do you say in Danish: "We are almost good..."?

    OTOH, I will take my chances and order a 3rd lot. If I get the T1 removed, I return it to LEGO and I will have the returning experience :-)

    If many would do that, then LEGO might recognise they should do something about it.
  • princedravenprincedraven Member Posts: 3,764
    ^ Then I hope you are forced to pay the postage back.

    People like you drive me mad, not only do you know the rules, you have had them highlighted here time and again and you are STILL trying to get away with it.....
    I have ZERO sympathy for you if this backfires on you.

    And seriously, you expect them to change their web banner dependant on what you have previously ordered. Get a grip!!!
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    I don't understand how someone can defend this situation.

    1. Limiting the polybag to one per household is perfectly fine.

    2. But letting you check out with the poly in your cart the second time and then removing it manually after you have paid is totally unacceptable. You have made your payment for that cart, so it's like stealing the item from you. I'm quite sure it's against law, too. (False advertising maybe if nothing else?) If my order showed the gift but then it wasn't delivered then I'd ask for it and if not getting it then return the order on principle.

    If you want to limit the polybag to one per household then it's the most basic requirement to make your online store able to handle this restriction.
    Yellowcastle
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    edited September 2013
    If it's my cart at checkout, I expect to get it. If their order system don't honour their fine prints, why shall I.

    I will let you know how it works out.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    edited September 2013
    ^^ I kind of agree with you, the situation is not what it should be. And if someone placed an order not knowing that there was a 1 per household limit and not having already heard that they were clamping down on the limit I would agree with your response.

    In @maques case thats clearly not the case and I can understand @princedraven frustration.

    Out of interest, if on the checkout/order summary where it lists the item as "LEGO® Mini VW T1 Camper Van" if they added this"(limited to 1 per household)" would that make it better. You're clearly being told that the item is limited to 1 per household, although it still shows in the list.
    maques said:

    If it's my cart at checkout, I expect to get it. If their order system don't honour their fine prints, why shall I.

    Indeed, but then don't be upset if they, using a similar mentality ban you from [email protected] I'm sure they won't but even Amazon have been known to do it with less reason.
  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    edited September 2013
    princedraven said:

    And seriously, you expect them to change their web banner dependant on what you have previously ordered.

    Yes I do.
    If my company's small webshop can do it, I'm sure a multimillion dollar company can do as well.

  • maquesmaques Member Posts: 96
    Hardrada said:

    I don't understand how someone can defend this situation.

    1. Limiting the polybag to one per household is perfectly fine.

    2. But letting you check out with the poly in your cart the second time and then removing it manually after you have paid is totally unacceptable. You have made your payment for that cart, so it's like stealing the item from you. I'm quite sure it's against law, too. (False advertising maybe if nothing else?) If my order showed the gift but then it wasn't delivered then I'd ask for it and if not getting it then return the order on principle.

    If you want to limit the polybag to one per household then it's the most basic requirement to make your online store able to handle this restriction.

    Exactly. Principle.
    I would also add the: "without presenting the customer a choice to cancel or go on with the order after customer service 'serviced' the order".
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    edited September 2013
    @cheshirecat Of course I'm also more sympathetic to those who run into this unknowingly but the fault still lies with TLG. It's just totally bonkers that a small print somewhere overrides what's in your cart at checkout. It's an unacceptable 'malfunction' of their store.
  • LostInTranslationLostInTranslation Member Posts: 5,572
    ^ Clicking on the banner takes you to the terms and conditions that clearly state one per household, while stocks last. Absolutely no reason to change it.
  • princedravenprincedraven Member Posts: 3,764
    It's like the world has gone insane! When did people lose the understanding that they have to have responsibility for their own actions!?!?!
    Dougout
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    edited September 2013
    ^They probably haven't lost the understanding, just flogged it on ebay for a fiver! ;-)

    "I used to have principles and responsibility but then I realised how much they were worth and I just couldn't do it anymore"
    princedravenhantotDougout
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439
    princedraven said:

    It's like the world has gone insane! When did people lose the understanding that they have to have responsibility for their own actions!?!?!

    Yes, and that applies to TLG as well. Their online store isn't working properly, and it's their responsibility. It's like the world has gone insane! Instead of owning up to it they are manually removing already purchased items.

    What if I'm Average Joe just shopping around at [email protected] two times a month and I see the promo poly turn up in my cart both times? There is no mention when you click on the cart of the household limit. You can check out with your cart and pay for your order without ever visiting the page where the restriction is mentioned in small print. (Not to mention that a good chunk of customers don't read the small print even if they see it.)

    A certain Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy quote about the plans having been available in the basement for viewing would fit here nicely.
    maques
  • LegoboyLegoboy Member Posts: 8,827
    edited September 2013
    Hardrada said:

    @cheshirecat Of course I'm also more sympathetic to those who run into this unknowingly but the fault still lies with TLG. It's just totally bonkers that a small print somewhere overrides what's in your cart at checkout. It's an unacceptable 'malfunction' of their store.

    The local roads enable me to drive at 130mph, so I'll the police officer it's the engineer's fault when I get pulled over. "I shouldn't be able to drive at 130mph."
    princedraven
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    maques said:

    princedraven said:

    And seriously, you expect them to change their web banner dependant on what you have previously ordered.

    Yes I do.
    If my company's small webshop can do it, I'm sure a multimillion dollar company can do as well.


    To be honest thats just crazy, they should stop them appearing in the checkout if you're using your VIP account ( I presume that we're all happy with them removing something from your package if you've tried to circumvent the limit by using a different [email protected] account with the same postal address?) but theres no need for them to automatically remove the banenr ad.
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