The Community Perspective on Reselling

CCC · August 2013

I wonder how it would have gone if lego had announced that this was going to be a limited edition set but not said how many units it was going to be limited to. Then opened the sales for one calendar month, when anyone could pre-order one (up to a limit of 5 or whatever). Then that number was produced.

Now there are clear problems with that model, including manufacturing time, but they could have taken orders for the whole of let's say June for delivery in maybe October.

I wonder how that would affect the reseller dynamics.

vitreolum · August 2013

^ This would be nothing special, it would just be another "not so limited edition" set with limited edition writing on the box like #8081.

CCC · August 2013

^ Which then suggests that the hype is nothing to do with the model at all, it is just down to exclusivity.

Which makes me wonder why lego don't do more exclusive limited editions. Any old model that doesn't sell too well, recall them, print a special numbered tile to go with it and reissue them as a limited edition.

vitreolum · August 2013

It's obvious the hype is all about exclusivity here, just look at the numbers of those that bought it who don't give a damn about technic at all. It's also a novelty since all the truly limited sets so far were unavailable to simply order for everyone and could only be found at certain expos and such.

caperberry · August 2013

JamesJT said:
.
caperberry said:
... and add glib, selfish and thoughtless comments that disrespect their AFOL colleagues and do not advance the conversation.
Pot/kettle

Ha! It's a fair cop. Reading this thread in the mood I was in last night was clearly not a good idea! Nice to see you do care. My apologies to @LegoFanTexas for the cheap shot.

coachie · August 2013

oldtodd33 said:
If anyone here doesn't like the resellers, do what I do and don't buy what they are selling. I have always said to myself, I will not pay above rrp for anything and with a very few exceptions, I stick to that. If I miss a set and it goes through the roof, I don't get one, period.

+1 here. coming out of my dark age 2 years ago, I turned down the chance to buy a second hand VW Beetle set for £100 because by my logic they were only £70 new. Second to LEGO, VWs are my thing and I have owned 8 Bugs (still have one) and tons of other VWs. However £300+ is just ridiculous for a used #10187 now, so I will never have it.

caperberry · August 2013

Crowkillers said:
The Lego stores couldn't even pull together as one unit and sell the 41999 on the proper release date...

Stores don't need to pull together. Managers need to pull themselves together and direct staff to identify purchasers that deliberately circumvent the 'one per household' rule by purchasing several times from different staff members. Then the manager needs to refuse them - scary task frankly, I don't envy them, so I hope TLG are being supportive beyond just issuing a directive.

Crowkillers said:
All resellers have to do is buy their sets at Toys R Us or some other chain and save money when those stores run a special..

Indeed, but that shouldn't stop TLG acting within their sphere of influence. By the way, TRU Stores are known to sometimes refuse to sell multiples, here in UK

Crowkillers said:
To everyone pissing and moaning about resellers, where do you think you are buying your parts from on bricklink..? It's the same damn thing...

I think that point is valid to make to anyone arguing a case that the entire secondary market is to be stopped, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that.

Pitfall69 · August 2013

I see @Crowkillers point. While buying parts on Bricklink, I noticed one of my favorite Bricklink stores had over 50 of a certain minifigure that was exclusive to a certain set. It was obvious that that person bought at least 50 of the set and parted it out. I don't see the difference between that and buying 50 of a set and selling it for a profit later.

caperberry · August 2013

Pitfall69 said:
I see @Crowkillers point. While buying parts on Bricklink, I noticed one of my favorite Bricklink stores had over 50 of a certain minifigure that was exclusive to a certain set. It was obvious that that person bought at least 50 of the set and parted it out. I don't see the difference between that and buying 50 of a set and selling it for a profit later.

I agree, anyone saying part resale is OK but set resale not is on dodgy ground.

Ah, actually on rereading my comment I see I phrased it incorrectly - I should have said "I think that point is valid to make to anyone arguing a case that the entire secondary market IN SETS is to be stopped, but I haven't seen anyone suggest that."

Pitfall69 · August 2013

I tried to read every comment in this thread, but was this brought up? I think when Lego S@H site crashed, it brought on all the panic buying that we saw on Ebay. To make matters worse, Lego S@H completely removed #41999 from their site. So, other than making an exclusive Crawler, I think this is another reason to blame TLG for the high prices for this set on EBay.

CCC · August 2013

Parting out sets on BL can be different if you don't do it for profit. I've often bought multiples for a specific part or minifig (especially if it is licensed) and before S@H had bricks'n'pieces live, and sold the stuff I really didn't want at the cheapest UK prices on BL or as a bulk lot on ebay just to get rid of the stuff I know I will never use.

The same could be said of anyone that trades. If you buy a set to trade for something else, then it is little different to selling it and buying what you want.

princedraven · August 2013

Crowkillers said:
My wife recently got into the modular buildings and is a collector of them and has the last 5, now how is she supposed to get a Cafe Corner or Green Grocer..?

One thing I have stated before but people (resellers) always seem to ignore, is that a lack of what we now term 'resellers' will not mean a lack of availability of Lego sets.
If your wife wants to buy Cafe Corner or Green Grocer, I would say 90% of the ones you will find on the likes of ebay are not from 'resellers' who have stockpiled the set but from your average Lego buyer from 5 or 6 years ago that is now willing to let it go.

I find the argument that the reseller is providing a service to be pretty empty in cases like this, there were 20,000 x 41999 at $199, now there are still 20,000, but the percentage that resellers bought are twice the price to the end consumer. How exactly is that a service?

Crowkillers · August 2013

Pitfall69 said:
I see @Crowkillers point. While buying parts on Bricklink, I noticed one of my favorite Bricklink stores had over 50 of a certain minifigure that was exclusive to a certain set. It was obvious that that person bought at least 50 of the set and parted it out. I don't see the difference between that and buying 50 of a set and selling it for a profit later.

Exactly, there isn't a difference...

I don't quite understand how some believe that it is ok for people to take 1,000's of sets off of the market and part them out so in turn that they can pick and choose which parts that they need, but if another person buys up 1,000 sets and takes them off of the market to just sell the sets he is immoral...

I could go out and buy 10 sets and sit on them for 2 years and maybe double my money up, Meanwhile Jo-Jo the Lego man did the same thing except he parted out those same 10 sets and in 2 months already made his money part and turned a profit via bricklink...

The only difference is that Jo-Jo resold to 100's of people scattered all over the world, while I am hoping somewhere down the line to sell to just one person...

You know, it sure is nice to be able to go into a bricklink store with 2 million parts and select exactly what you are looking for at far better prices than you can get from Lego themselves, but how do you think these stores acquired those 2 million parts...?

Pitfall69 · August 2013

^Yes, in cases like #41999. This is a special case.

Lego puts out 100's of sets every year. Sets like these makes up such a small percentage that resellers stock up on.

vitreolum · August 2013

The price for 41999 will increase, no matter if it's resellers that sell them or fans that got bored. It's no reseller's fault people bid 400$+ for this on ebay, if there's anyone to complain about, it's the ones that are willing to pay the amount. I don't see why anyone should feel in any way guilty that they can make a huge profit selling something if the buyer is willingly paying.

And if you're paying that amount, wouldn't you prefer a mint/misb one from a reseller instead of a played one?

Or perhaps if a fan keeps that misb to sell later, that's fine, but if a reseller does that, he's the devil?

And what about those that sell under retail? Are they a problem as well?
Because several resellers buy sets at discounts and sell under retail. Isn't that doing a service? Not everyone is able to buy what they want exactly when discounts are available, but they may still get a chance to buy from a reseller well under retail later on.

Crowkillers · August 2013

Pitfall69 said:
^Yes, in cases like #41999. This is a special case.

Lego puts out 100's of sets every year. Sets like these makes up such a small percentage that resellers stock up on.

I am basically just using the topic of this thread as an example... I don't understand how people can chop up resellers into sub-groups... You are either out to make a profit reselling a set that you bought or you're not... It doesn't matter how you do it, you're still doing it...

So does it make it less immoral to buy up new sets and part them out so that others are happy that they can get the elements that they need..? The guy selling you those parts is licking his lips the same way as someone who is selling an entire set...

princedraven · August 2013

princedraven said:
in cases like this

@Crowkillers was making the point that his wife wouldn't be able to buy a Cafe Corner without resellers. I am pointing out that the large majority of Cafe Corners on the market are NOT from resellers.
And I added the point that in THIS CASE resellers did nothing but stop the end consumer who wants this item having to pay double what the retail price is.
It's clear there are at least 20,000 consumers who wanted this item, whatever percentage were snapped up by resellers has robbed that percentage of consumers of the chance to purchase the item at the retail price, plain and simple, whichever way you look at it. Or at least whichever way I look at it.

Crowkillers · August 2013

I look at anyone that resells an item for more than they paid for it as a reseller... Regardless if they supposedly started as a "Fan" or "Collector" and then realized how much money they could make 4 years later... I talked to a guy at Brickworld back in 2010 who had hoarded up Cafe Corner sets by the dozens... I wasn't aware that Lego clearanced those out at 1/2 price...

As I said before, Lego should have had stricter rules on the quantities of the 41999 sets that were allowed to be purchased... ONE per household should have been the limit... Yeah people still would have gotten relatives and friends to buy one them, but it would have been a whole different ballgame...

And Lego stores most certainly should not have allowed people to come into their store and buy all 4 sets that were on the shelves..

TheLoneTensor · August 2013

princedraven said:

Crowkillers said:
My wife recently got into the modular buildings and is a collector of them and has the last 5, now how is she supposed to get a Cafe Corner or Green Grocer..?
One thing I have stated before but people (resellers) always seem to ignore, is that a lack of what we now term 'resellers' will not mean a lack of availability of Lego sets.
If your wife wants to buy Cafe Corner or Green Grocer, I would say 90% of the ones you will find on the likes of ebay are not from 'resellers' who have stockpiled the set but from your average Lego buyer from 5 or 6 years ago that is now willing to let it go.

I don't think people are ignoring you, but people don't tend to respond to inherently inflammatory remarks like that. If you don't want to have people get snarky, I suggest not starting out as such. I would like to know, however, on what you base your 90% estimate.

In any event, your overall theory of resellers not providing a service is flawed, because the hand-me-down sets you speak of would be used. In your scenarios, nobody could ever get to build a new GG, or Maersk Train, or Winter Toy Shop, etc.

cheshirecat · August 2013

We really are going over old ground now, but I think you can argue that resellers buying up stock, holding it for a few years and then selling is providing a service - although they haven't produced anything new, those sets would eventually be discounted and picked up to be broken up or played with. Therefore there are now sets available MISB when they wouldn't be without resellers - hence they provide a service at a cost. (This is a change to my original viewpoint after good points made by @LFT and others). I think this can apply to almost all LEGO sets - FB's and DS's in particular ;-)

However, that argument falls down when resellers start to flip quickly for a profit or pick up a limited item - Minecraft, Lloyd, 41999 for example. Here they aren't providing any kind of service, just trying to make a quick buck and often in doing so exasperate the problem/opportunity. Now, there's nothing inherently wrong with making a quick buck, accept for two things. 1) it can (and in these cases does) cause harm to others. 2) your behaviour can verge on immoral/unethical/any other word. Now those are entirely subjective but often if you say what you did, people are going to form opinions - you should neither be surprised nor upset about that. If I said I kicked a dog that had come onto my property, people would form opinions about me. Irrespective of if I thought that was right or wrong, people would, I imagine, think I was being dickish (that's for you @Pitfall69). In terms of LEGO - people will form opinions about how many of a set like this you sell, what methods you used to get them, if you broke rules that other people stuck to. That's just human nature. Just like most of us probably form an opinion about people that sit in the middle lane (sorry - a UK thing) or double park.

As for those that re-sell parts/figures/MISB. I don't know, I think there is a difference, and its probably a scale. Those that sell the figures, or break up the sets on bricklink are providing a clear service. In line with, or perhaps more so than, with MISB resellers who hold on to things for a year or more. Again those that just flip them and use the pent up demand that is in part produced by the resellers themselves aren't providing a service, they're just profiteering. If someone parting out sets had bypassed TLGs rules I would feel the same way about them, but I doubt that's happened much. Whether I can justify it or not I'm not sure, but I also think that the motivation behind the action would sway my opinion too - if the original intent was to make money, and as much money as possible, I would see that differently to someone trying to offset the cost of some parts/minifigures by selling off the remainder.

I don't think saying resellers/reselling is bad is sensible, just as saying banks/bankers are bad (again possibly not my stance 12 months ago). As with everything there are good ones and bad ones, good reselling behaviour and bad reselling behaviour. How bad, what is bad and indeed if anything is bad is a matter of personal opinion.

Lootefisk · August 2013

CCC said:
^ Which then suggests that the hype is nothing to do with the model at all, it is just down to exclusivity.

Which makes me wonder why lego don't do more exclusive limited editions. Any old model that doesn't sell too well, recall them, print a special numbered tile to go with it and reissue them as a limited edition.

Because they don't want to kill their brand.

mathew · August 2013

My son has plenty of Lego to build with, but that's because I'm able to acquire it for him. There are a lot of other kids out there that lose out to the shelf clearing resellers who buy anything and everything just because it's marked 30% off. My personal code of ethics is to buy one of something if I find it on clearance and then leave the rest on the shelf. I did that last year with the Mine set that I found at Walmart for $40 and a Minecraft set. I flipped both of those sets at Christmas for a nice profit. I do it as a way to fund the hobby, not as a business. I've come to terms with resellers in that respect. However, I don't enjoy reading about the boasting of shelf clearing or using family members to circumvent restrictions. Those people open themselves up rightly so to criticism and ridicule.

pillpod · August 2013

I think we can all agree that 41999 is an extreme case, but it's also what brought up this topic. So we can't just toss it out the window and chalk it up to being the exception.

I think parting out sets is reselling, no doubt. But it does provide a different service. It opens a new market that didn't exist before. It may prevent you or I from getting a MISB set but it also allows a bunch of people to benefit from 1 set.

Resellers in general provide a great service; it's hard work (especially people that part out sets). But in the case of 41999, no service was provided other than raising prices. Yes, people are willing to pay $400+, but they were also willing to pay $200. In this, resellers are taking advantage of the willing buyer. I don't feel bad for the buyer because Lego isn't a necessity but I also don't feel that the reseller should be praised for his or her service, in this particular case.

CCC · August 2013

^ OK, any old crap was probably too far. But there is a clear precedent that has been set with #41999 and Mr Gold. There is demand for exclusives no matter what they are, because they are exclusives/limited rather than what they are. So I wonder how many exclusives lego could get away with producing without damaging sales / annoying completists. One technic set per year? A city set maybe? They could easily do a 50,000 limited edition run of any minifigure in a larger set in SW, LOTR, superheroes, etc and for people to go crazy getting it.

Imagine something limited between regular sales numbers and comic con numbers. A large number, so there would be profit in the design, but limited edition to guarantee that every copy sells at RRP. It would be like MF Zombies, but with warning to get it at full RRP.

Would it be good for lego fans? Probably not. Having to buy on day one at full RRP is not something we expect. But it would be interesting to see what happens if they did it.

cheshirecat · August 2013

^ It would work for a while but perhaps not for long, I think the reality is that #41999 is at heart a good set, its also good value. Its also special because of the box, the competition etc. There are buyers wanting that set for what it is. It compares so favourably to the standard crawler that there is a buyers market outside of the collectors. Of course, they probably aren't the ones paying >$400 which does make me wonder if there will be a drop in price on this one after a while. The buoyant market only works for as long as there are buyers or resellers with available cash they're happy to invest.

Hardrada · August 2013

princedraven said:

Crowkillers said:
My wife recently got into the modular buildings and is a collector of them and has the last 5, now how is she supposed to get a Cafe Corner or Green Grocer..?
One thing I have stated before but people (resellers) always seem to ignore, is that a lack of what we now term 'resellers' will not mean a lack of availability of Lego sets.
If your wife wants to buy Cafe Corner or Green Grocer, I would say 90% of the ones you will find on the likes of ebay are not from 'resellers' who have stockpiled the set but from your average Lego buyer from 5 or 6 years ago that is now willing to let it go.

There would be next to no New ones available then though. And I'd say that on exclusives produced for a longer time (1+ years) in more batches the demand that resellers bring forward in time might result in higher quantities made. On your average set in retail the stock that goes to resellers is probably negligable proportionally but probably not so on sets like Fire Brigade.

And since the reseller boom prices seem to be rising a lot slower and there seem to be fewer outliers like CC or the Millenium Falcon. Meaning that because of the abundance of resellers you have to pay less of a premium if you want a set X years or months after EOL in new condition.

41999 is a different animal though of course. As it was a limited release with a fixed amount made every single one that ended up with a reseller meant that one less was available for end buyers at retail price. I as a reseller think that buying more than the limit (through shill buyers or whatever) was unethical.

TheLoneTensor · August 2013

cheshirecat said:
Lots of words.

I hear that, and I'm down with the reselling distinction of:

1) Storing a number of sets in a speculative manner, spreading out risk, making a profit, etc. This would include taking on a hot property in order to turn a quick buck as long as you don't evolve into...

2) Flipping a hot commodity to the way next level, sucking down stock, overly circumventing limits, abusing tricks to gain way more than they should, etc. Minecraft, Lloyd, etc.

1 is cool in my book and serves a purpose in making otherwise unavailable sets available later, whereas 2 turns Lego into nothing more than a commodity, and honestly hurts the hobby.

Either way, perception is kinda the key, as it's been said, the bragging ugh...serves no good whatsoever. As proud as you may be of getting $200 for your Winter Toy Shop that you paid $45 for, nobody really wants to hear it, nor do we want to hear about you slapping a new shipping label on a #41999 and making $100 instantly. Just do what you're going to do, and if you can sleep at night content in that, good for you.

princedraven · August 2013

tensor said:

princedraven said:

Crowkillers said:
My wife recently got into the modular buildings and is a collector of them and has the last 5, now how is she supposed to get a Cafe Corner or Green Grocer..?
One thing I have stated before but people (resellers) always seem to ignore, is that a lack of what we now term 'resellers' will not mean a lack of availability of Lego sets.
If your wife wants to buy Cafe Corner or Green Grocer, I would say 90% of the ones you will find on the likes of ebay are not from 'resellers' who have stockpiled the set but from your average Lego buyer from 5 or 6 years ago that is now willing to let it go.
I don't think people are ignoring you, but people don't tend to respond to inherently inflammatory remarks like that. If you don't want to have people get snarky, I suggest not starting out as such. I would like to know, however, on what you base your 90% estimate.

In any event, your overall theory of resellers not providing a service is flawed, because the hand-me-down sets you speak of would be used. In your scenarios, nobody could ever get to build a new GG, or Maersk Train, or Winter Toy Shop, etc.

Hi @tensor I do not believe I was making any kind of 'inflammatory remark' at all, or being snarky in the slightest, just pointing out that you can still buy a product in the future without it being 'stockpiled by a reseller', I was basing my 90% on my experience over the years of looking for a Cafe Corner, almost zero of those available on ebay are from someone who bought it with the sole purpose of stockpiling and selling as the scene was considerably different back then. Most are built, used, displayed, without box, etc.

Stockpiling 41999 now as a service to future collectors is a mad statement as you are doing this at the expense of current collectors, and as pointed out, most resellers are just slapping a new shipping label on and pocketing their mark up. So the person buying is the same one that would have bought it for half the price on S@H.

I am not saying they do not provide a service full stop, just that it is slightly far fetched to claim it for this instance.

Again, I honestly do not believe that I am being snarky or inflammatory, if you took it that way I apologise.

CCC · August 2013

princedraven said:

Stockpiling 41999 now as a service to future collectors is a mad statement as you are doing this at the expense of current collectors, and as pointed out, most resellers are just slapping a new shipping label on and pocketing their mark up. So the person buying is the same one that would have bought it for half the price on S@H.

I wonder how many of the people paying 2xRRP are buying it just to resell later too. In that case, the second reseller is just sharing the future (perceived) profits with the first. At some point price rises have to stop and someone is going to be caught with expensive stock they cannot shift for a profit. Are there really 20,000 people out there that are willing to pay £500 (or whatever) for a toy car?

There was a line way up there from @LFT - these are now almost too expensive to open. If you bought one and have just got it delivered, do you now "exchange" it for a £300-400 set instead?

TheLoneTensor · August 2013

^^I was simply going off the "One thing I have stated before but people (resellers) always seem to ignore" comment. I know I would have taken it differently if you had not included the "(resellers)" part. Shrug, I guess I'm just saying that with such a 3rd-rail kinda topic, even the slightest bit of snark can be amplified. Glad to know it wasn't intentional.

I think the whole most-CCs-are-used thing is because there were less available and because they didn't sell well to begin with (i.e. these things were clearanced at Wal Mart at one point), so pretty much the only ones left are used ones. Not so much with any set made since 2010.

Crowkillers · August 2013

CCC said:

princedraven said:

Stockpiling 41999 now as a service to future collectors is a mad statement as you are doing this at the expense of current collectors, and as pointed out, most resellers are just slapping a new shipping label on and pocketing their mark up. So the person buying is the same one that would have bought it for half the price on S@H.

I wonder how many of the people paying 2xRRP are buying it just to resell later too. In that case, the second reseller is just sharing the future (perceived) profits with the first. At some point price rises have to stop and someone is going to be caught with expensive stock they cannot shift for a profit. Are there really 20,000 people out there that are willing to pay £500 (or whatever) for a toy car?

There was a line way up there from @LFT - these are now almost too expensive to open. If you bought one and have just got it delivered, do you now "exchange" it for a £300-400 set instead?

I know of one reseller who was buying them on Ebay for $300.. I am sure he wasn't alone..

vitreolum · August 2013

^ Trading this is actually a very good way to get a set you just wouldn't pay the current price for.

tedward · August 2013

cheshirecat said:
I agree with you right down to definition of persecuted.

Oh, I'm sorry, a person being banned from entering LEGO stores for the rest of their lives is not really "persecution" in your book?

Whatever.

cheshirecat · August 2013

^ no, and in his own words it would be a useful lesson to learn.

prof1515 · August 2013

tedward said:

cheshirecat said:
I agree with you right down to definition of persecuted.
Oh, I'm sorry, a person being banned from entering LEGO stores for the rest of their lives is not really "persecution" in your book?

Whatever.

No, it's not persecution.

PERSECUTE
per·se·cute
transitive verb \ˈpər-si-ˌkyüt\
1: to harass or punish in a manner designed to injure, grieve, or afflict; specifically: to cause to suffer because of belief
2: to annoy with persistent or urgent approaches (as attacks, pleas, or importunities) : pester

"Being banned from entering LEGO stores" hardly qualifies as injuring or afflicting a person to cause suffering. You need to get some perspective. Or grow up. Or both.

Crowkillers · August 2013

LOL.. I wish a Lego store would open somewhere close enough for me to even get banned from it... XD

dragonhawk · August 2013

CCC said:
^ Which then suggests that the hype is nothing to do with the model at all, it is just down to exclusivity.

Which makes me wonder why lego don't do more exclusive limited editions. Any old model that doesn't sell too well, recall them, print a special numbered tile to go with it and reissue them as a limited edition.

No, they already created the "Retiring Soon" tag to move old products without financial hit :)

Pitfall69 · August 2013

@Tensor @princedraven. This thread has really jumped the "snark" hasn't it?

princedraven · August 2013

@Pitfall69 sorry fella, I don't really know what that means...

Pitfall69 · August 2013

Jumping the shark is an idiom that is used to describe the moment in the evolution of a fad or tv show when it begins a decline in quality that is beyond recovery. I guess it is an American thing ;)

I used "snark" instead of shark...oh Nevermind!!! :(

TheLoneTensor · August 2013

I knew what it meant, I looked it up in the d**ktionary :)

Pitfall69 · August 2013

^Hahahaha. Now that's funny.

Crowkillers · August 2013

Pitfall69 · August 2013

Honestly, I don't see rehashing the same "reseller" arguments over and over. You are not going to change ones views no matter what you present to them. If one "anti-resellers" mind was changed after all of this discussion, please correct me, but I doubt it.

princedraven · August 2013

I agree, no-one will change, which makes the requirement to keep the conversations separate all the more obvious. Whoever compared the situation to concert tickets hit the nail on the head for me and explains quite clearly why there would be conflict between the 2 extreme's.

Seems a shame that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

pvancil27 · August 2013

Pitfall69 said:
Honestly, I don't see rehashing the same "reseller" arguments over and over. You are not going to change ones views no matter what you present to them. If one "anti-resellers" mind was changed after all of this discussion, please correct me, but I doubt it.

I've softened a few stances. I still think its greedy to clear out an entire clearance isle for example but I don't see it as unethical or immoral like I did. I also see peoples points about them providing a service. I still disagree with using that service as justification especially in cases of skirting limits and straight out price gouging but I see their POV.

I agree with one point Yellow and some other made, if the re-selling stuff didnt spill into every other thread, the backlash would be a lot smaller and more controlled. But when someone posts that Town Halls are on sale for 40% off and 15 of the next 20 posts are "I bought 10 more for my pile, I'm up to 100, cant wait to sell these for 400 bucks" Then see the sale runs out in an hour, I can 100% understand why people get upset, and I would hope they also can see and understand that.

LegoFanTexas · August 2013

^ Yes, that is understandable... :)

CCC · August 2013

So maybe the next limited edition exclusive should be the emperor's new clothes. A limited edition box with nothing in it. If they are not going to be opened it makes no difference. Plus no design costs, cheaper shipping costs.

princedraven said:
.....
that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

I hate doing quotes on a phone.

doriansdad · August 2013

princedraven said:

Seems a shame that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

As a collector and reseller I am glad this is the case. Again just a different view point. I hold nothing against those that wish to build this set and it would be nice if they did the same for folks who enjoy a different aspect of the hobby.

caperberry · August 2013

Pitfall69 said:
Honestly, I don't see rehashing the same "reseller" arguments over and over. You are not going to change ones views no matter what you present to them. If one "anti-resellers" mind was changed after all of this discussion, please correct me, but I doubt it.

Here are some issues that interest me as a result of this thread. AFOLs have been using internet discussion groups to resell sets and parts to one another, and to alert each other to LEGO discounts in stores, for some 20 years now. So why is this thread happening in 2013 (and 2012!), why has the place of reselling by AFOLs become a drama? Obviously because over time more and people have recognised there is money to be made in reselling, which has aggravated many existing issues and emotions.

If an AFOL enjoys reselling their sets or parts more than building or collecting them, then I'm cool with that reality. It is not the purpose that the System in Play was invented for, but then neither are MOCs depicting sex and I find those pretty dang funny. But reselling has grown to the point where there is awareness amongst people with no interest in LEGO whatsoever that there is a (literal) wealth of easily-accessible investment information available from those AFOLs in the know, so the bandwagon is increasingly easy and attractive to jump on. I am not cool with that; I'm interested to know if AFOLs that resell a lot of sets are, and anyone's thoughts on whether it is realistic to hope that the access these people have could be lessened in some way.

All fan communities are protective of the brand they love so dearly (and in our case the brand is both LEGO and AFOLdom). So individuals identify things that threaten their perception of the brand and then things get dramatic. Once upon a time it was Bionicle, another time it was Bley. TLG got blamed first and then AFOLs turned on one another. Interesting that this time around, the AFOL ‘resellers’ got blamed first and it seems largely to be those being accused that are pointing blame at TLG. I say interesting because it interests me - I'm not having a pop at anyone with that remark.

This drama of the increasing secondary market has the potential to be even more dramatic than those earlier examples, because money is involved. Money has the power to trigger some very deep human emotions, and LEGO also has great emotional power I believe – such as childhood innocence and freedom, the guilt and shame virtually all AFOLs feel at some point to some degree. So I agree with Pitfall that I think this thread is and will continue to be unavoidably messy as a result of all these emotions around money and LEGO being thrown into a melting pot. But I disagree that minds will not be changed - it isn't that black and white.

The Community Perspective on Reselling

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