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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    edited August 2013
    samiam391 said:

    Still though, that doesn't give someone a reason to go over the purchase limit. What's the reasoning behind doing so, from a re-sellers perspective? It's an honest question that isn't being asked in an accusing way... I would honestly like to know.

    Same reason TLG exists....to make $$$$.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    There's always someone else to blame, isn't there ? I mean, God forbid that anyone take responsibility for their own actions....

    Interesting point of view...

    I'm honestly not sure where the "responsibility" part comes into it, I'm not stealing them, I'm not kicking Timmy out of the way to buy them. I'm not breaking any laws or bypassing any purchase limits.

    I actually think I'm being very responsible, but of course that is my humble opinion.

    I know how to work the system. If I wanted 50 of these, I'm quite sure I could have gotten them. I ended up with 6. 2 I purchased myself, 2 my mother purchased, 2 my brother purchased, and I left it at that.

    It's basically scalping, no ?

    In this case, yes, it is...

    Of course we could then debate if scalping is a good or bad thing, but I doubt we'd get anywhere. :)

    I "scalped" within the purchase limits TLG established, I followed the rules. So in my view, I'm a "responsible scalper". Those who bypass the rules to get 50 of them, are not.

    Just my opinion of course. :)
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290

    BTW, I'm a "real fan", I have a whole bookshelf of Technic built, I find it to be amazing what can be done with it. But I'm still not going to build one, I can't justify it given what the value is (and will become). So TLG is harming the fan in me as well, since I'd actually like to build the set, but when I can flip them in 10 days for a 100% profit, I'd be crazy to build one. :)

    Rather than TLG harming the fan in you, I think it's more correctly stated that your desire for money outweighs your desire to build the set. There's nothing wrong with that, but if we use that measure to judge a "real fan", our thresholds likely differ.

    If you sold your 41999 for $400, what does that put it around for you? $160?
    I have yet to sell a MISB set that I didn't already have in my collection, and I opened my only MISB copy of 10300 a couple years ago to build, so my threshold, still undetermined, is north of $1000 :P

    BTW, I'll take that over on the $600 bet for next year. :)

    LOL... well it's not fair to wait for more favorable data to then take the bet. To make it fair and start the bet now, I'd like to revise it upward to $650.

    So, changing only the number from my original proposal: over/under $650 as the Bricklink average sale for new sets in the U.S. for the month of 8/2014.

    I'll wager up to $200 on it, so I'll take any and all bets that book it today up to the point that it's $200 across all bets.
    caperberry
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    Not everyone has a LEGO store nearby. Not everyone can take the day off work. Believe it or not, not everyone had $200 in ready funds during the half day it was available. And not everyone was aware of or remembered the August 1st release of the set.

    Ok, I'll step in it. :)

    It was online for many hours on [email protected], then came back and was up for several days in backordered status (and by accounts, those orders will be shipped).

    Most LEGO stores are happy to ship, just call them and ask.

    As for the money. Frankly, if you don't have $200 of ready cash to buy a plastic building toy when it is such a limited release, perhaps you shouldn't be buying $200 plastic building toys in the first place.

    That is one of my bigger grips in general, so many people buying what they really can't afford. If you don't have $200 laying around, you shouldn't be buying any LEGO, you should be opening a savings account.

    But that is another matter. :)
    rocao said:

    But fair or not, now that the set is sold out, people who wanted to own the set certainly were deprived of the opportunity to do so at retail price and resellers contributed to that.

    Yes, I would agree with that statement. The question then becomes, is this a good or bad thing, or neither, just a thing?

    Often it reads like some people believe it is a bad thing, that it is "evil" to deprive people who want to own a set the chance to buy it at retail price.

    Maybe that isn't what you mean, but it is what I hear when I read that.
    Trenthnkx1andystartedwardjasor
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013
    ^ I personally am not saying it is evil. And I don't think @drdavewatford is saying it's evil, either, though he probably does thinks it's more abhorrent than I do. However you asked "whose fault is it". So if we are doing faultfinding, we are saying that the resellers should accept some of this rather than point to the fact that TLG made it too limited, or didn't do enough to enforce limits, etc. (and from my previous post, you'll see I do assign some of the blame on them).
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Lootefisk said:

    The UK buyer isn't "cornering the market" he's really just raising the original base price that 41999 is going for on eBay.

    If he can buy 20 at an average price of $300 and in the same Instance raise everyone's expectations that these will sell for $400+ he's probably accomplished his objectives. Short term.

    yes, this... he doesn't have to corner the market, just move it for a week or two, then sell the copies back (along with his own copies), and profit!

    this is actually done all too often in the stock market and commodities markets by deep pocketed investors who move money around to make money.

    Watch Trading Places sometime to see it in action. :) (abit at an extreme level, in real life they don't want to move it that far or they'd be caught.)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited August 2013
    Obvious answer @doriansdad...lol

    I only bought one. I'm a collector first and foremost. I could have easily bought my 2 and ask my parents to buy two and ask my friends to buy 2 and so on. I'm sure that is what people have done. As a collector, I find circumventing the purchase limit distasteful. As a small time reseller to support my Lego addiction, I understand why people do purchase more than the limit.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    Rather than TLG harming the fan in you, I think it's more correctly stated that your desire for money outweighs your desire to build the set. There's nothing wrong with that, but if we use that measure to judge a "real fan", our thresholds likely differ.

    Totally fair point...

    I'm a fan of LEGO and Technic, but I'm also a fan of taking my kids to the waterpark, of having a nice meal out on a Saturday night, and of having a nice home to live in.

    So it becomes a tradeoff, just how much do I want to open and build that (now expensive) Technic set, vs. doing something nice for my family?
    rocao said:

    If you sold your 41999 for $400, what does that put it around for you? $160?

    About there, yes...
    rocao said:

    I have yet to sell a MISB set that I didn't already have in my collection, and I opened my only MISB copy of 10300 a couple years ago to build, so my threshold, still undetermined, is north of $1000 :P

    I assume you mean 10030 UCS ISD? I ended up buying a used copy of that, couldn't bring myself to breaking the seals on a new one.

    I paid $550 for my used copy (complete with box and instructions) last summer, sold my last sealed copy for $1,500 last Christmas.

    I can think of a LOT of other things to do with $1,000 other than cut the seals on a LEGO set. :) I'm sure I am not in the minority when I say that either.

    The last expensive MISB set that I opened was Green Grocer. You know what? I've already sold that set. $500 for a plastic house on the shelf is just nuts. :) Doesn't make me less of a fan, just makes me a fan of other things in addition to LEGO.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013
    In my honest opinion, Lego knew exactly what was going to happen, and if they cared they would have limited these to one per household, or one per customer in the stores... Granted the people who really wanted multiples would have gone out of their way to get more, but it would have helped a bit...
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    ^ I personally am not saying it is evil. And I don't think @drdavewatford is saying it's evil, either, though he probably does thinks it's more abhorrent than I do. However you asked "whose fault is it". So if we are doing faultfinding, we are saying that the resellers should accept some of this rather than point to the fact that TLG made it too limited, or didn't do enough to enforce limits, etc. (and from my previous post, you'll see I do assign some of the blame on them).

    Fair enough...

    Just to toss a thought back...

    If I had not purchased my 6 copies, then it is quite possible those 6 copies would go to people who want to build the set.

    Or they could have gone to other resellers, we just don't know.

    However, the demand from "real fans" far exceeds the 6 extra people who might have gotten a copy. At that point, blame completely transfers from me to TLG.

    So perhaps I'm responsible for 6 people having to do without or pay over RRP, but TLG is responsible for thousands of people having to do the same.

    I would submit that they are, by far, the more "guilty party", doubly so since I'm playing their game by their rules.
    Yellowcastle
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831

    rocao said:

    Why?

    That is a serious, honest question...

    Speaking for myself, it's mostly along the lines of sentiment such as "I don't like Technic, but I picked up 6", "Can you make money on these? I don't know anything about Technic. Okay, I managed to get 4. Next stop... profit!". Basically, it's the situation that some real fans will be deprived of this set at a reasonable price by those that see it as nothing more than a commodity.
    BTW, I'm a "real fan", I have a whole bookshelf of Technic built, I find it to be amazing what can be done with it. But I'm still not going to build one, I can't justify it given what the value is (and will become). So TLG is harming the fan in me as well, since I'd actually like to build the set, but when I can flip them in 10 days for a 100% profit, I'd be crazy to build one.
    I'm a real fan too, but if someone offered me £1,000 for mine there is no way I could take it. As a real fan, I'd then be without. Owning the set comes first.

    Once you've sold the last in your inventory, what have you got? A couple of hundred bucks? A real fan wants lego, not cash.
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Hertfordshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 6,653

    rocao said:

    But fair or not, now that the set is sold out, people who wanted to own the set certainly were deprived of the opportunity to do so at retail price and resellers contributed to that.

    Yes, I would agree with that statement. The question then becomes, is this a good or bad thing, or neither, just a thing?

    Often it reads like some people believe it is a bad thing, that it is "evil" to deprive people who want to own a set the chance to buy it at retail price.
    I'm not sure too many of us would go so far as to apply the word "evil" to this situation, but clearly some of us including me would rather that resellers didn't buy up every copy of a limited edition set that they reasonably can and thus prevent people who'd like a copy from getting hold of one at the retail price.

    I personally don't think it's right that you used family contacts to circumvent LEGO's 2 per person rule in order to buy 6 copies of the set, but I'm sure you don't care what I or others on this forum think. And per your previous messages, it's LEGOs fault for not making enough copies of the set, rather than yours for breaking the 2 per person rule they put in place, right ?
    caperberryy2josh
  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118



    As for the money. Frankly, if you don't have $200 of ready cash to buy a plastic building toy when it is such a limited release, perhaps you shouldn't be buying $200 plastic building toys in the first place.

    That is one of my bigger grips in general, so many people buying what they really can't afford. If you don't have $200 laying around, you shouldn't be buying any LEGO, you should be opening a savings account.

    ^^ LFT^^ I guess this is part of what I am curious about while watching from the sidelines. If you can't afford it at $200 -- what makes it possible or justifiable at $400+? Someone posted a link in another thread to a build review but it does seem like very few are being opened. Add in to the fact that Technic fans such as LFT state that he won't be building his and I wonder where the buying market is coming from.
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,384

    Well that is all the price action I need to see. $400 USD is the floor enroute to $500....$600 will be the price this shopping season.....fluctuating between high 4's to mid 6's after that. Time to move on and plan for 9/1/13.

    I see between 5 and 8 people bidding on every, single, set. I've already rambled on enough about my expectations for the set, but I wouldn't count on this type of increase for much longer.

    Not that sets and minifigures are the same thing, but this is usually what happens in a limited edition minifigure market.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Legoboy said:

    I'm a real fan too, but if someone offered me £1,000 for mine there is no way I could take it. As a real fan, I'd then be without. Owning the set comes first.

    And that is your choice... what happens when the price becomes £10,000? £1,000,000?

    Very, very few people would have no price they'd sell at. Your price may not be £1,000, but odds are you have a price, however absurd it might be. :)
    Legoboy said:

    Once you've sold the last in your inventory, what have you got? A couple of hundred bucks? A real fan wants lego, not cash.

    I do not have the space for every Technic set ever made, at some point I have to be picky about what I build.

    Part of that comes down to what I "want" to build, and part of it comes down to what is the most "cost effective" sets to build.

    That doesn't make me a "fake fan", it makes me a fan of many things, LEGO being just one of them. :)
    LootefiskYellowcastle
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013
    All Lego had to do was say that this set was going to be a limited edition set and not announce any number as to how many were going to be produced and then when they finally sold out, they were out... This would have eliminated tons of resellers... The fact that Lego individually numbered a part in the set and said there would only be 20,000 is the reason why they were bought up... And of course they did this knowing that they were going to get rid of them fast... Afterall, you don't want this set hanging around competing with your other Crawler in the #9398 which costs the same amount and has less features/parts...
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I personally don't think it's right that you used family contacts to circumvent LEGO's 2 per person rule in order to buy 6 copies of the set, but I'm sure you don't care what I or others on this forum think. And per your previous messages, it's LEGOs fault for not making enough copies of the set, rather than yours for breaking the 2 per person rule they put in place, right ?

    Interesting point of view...

    I don't feel I broke the purchase limits, it is limit 2 per person/household/address, right?

    Neither my mother nor my brother live here, they are both perfectly welcome to buy their own copies, are they not?

    I don't bother with that most of the time, but this is one of those rare exceptions that I didn't care to leave $1,000 just laying on the ground as I walked by.
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,384

    I personally don't think it's right that you used family contacts to circumvent LEGO's 2 per person rule in order to buy 6 copies of the set, but I'm sure you don't care what I or others on this forum think. And per your previous messages, it's LEGOs fault for not making enough copies of the set, rather than yours for breaking the 2 per person rule they put in place, right ?

    Interesting point of view...

    I don't feel I broke the purchase limits, it is limit 2 per person/household/address, right?

    Neither my mother nor my brother live here, they are both perfectly welcome to buy their own copies, are they not?

    I don't bother with that most of the time, but this is one of those rare exceptions that I didn't care to leave $1,000 just laying on the ground as I walked by.
    It is 2 per person/household/address, correct.

    Yes, they are welcome to purchase their own copies. From my understanding though, they aren't their own copies, but are rather being shipped onto you for you to re-sell and reap the whole of the profits. Or is that an incorrect statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding since you first mentioned you had managed 6 through family members.

  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    edited August 2013

    Legoboy said:

    I'm a real fan too, but if someone offered me £1,000 for mine there is no way I could take it. As a real fan, I'd then be without. Owning the set comes first.

    And that is your choice... what happens when the price becomes £10,000? £1,000,000?

    Very, very few people would have no price they'd sell at. Your price may not be £1,000, but odds are you have a price, however absurd it might be. :)
    But it's when your threshold is a mere "100% profit" and doesn't need the money it makes you less of a fan. Of course if someone was to offer a £10k or £1m I'd take it, but for you, I don't understand why as a real fan you'd rather have a grand say in your back pocket than have the honour of owning such a rare and exclusive set. It's not all about money.

    Legoboy said:

    Once you've sold the last in your inventory, what have you got? A couple of hundred bucks? A real fan wants lego, not cash.

    I do not have the space for every Technic set ever made, at some point I have to be picky about what I build.

    That doesn't make me a "fake fan", it makes me a fan of many things, LEGO being just one of them. :)
    And what 'real fan' wouldn't want to build THE exclusive Technic set over making a couple of hundred bucks? I would have thought for a picky real fan, this set would have been right up there as one to keep, one for the shelf? ;o)
  • LootefiskLootefisk Member Posts: 67

    .....it's LEGOs fault for not making enough copies of the set, rather than yours for breaking the 2 per person rule they put in place, right ?

    Once Lego made this an "Exclusive Edition" set they became unconcerned with the casual collector. Its not resellers as much as it is the 20,000 limit of copies that will prevent people from obtaining this set. There are plenty of resellers that purchased 21103 yet there is no shortage of that set.

    I'm not really sure how LFT broke the 2 per person rule. You might have issue with how TLG came up with their rules but LFT definitely didn't break them.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    samiam391 said:

    It is 2 per person/household/address, correct.

    Yes, they are welcome to purchase their own copies. From my understanding though, they aren't their own copies, but are rather being shipped onto you for you to re-sell and reap the whole of the profits. Or is that an incorrect statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding since you first mentioned you had managed 6 through family members.

    I suppose you might consider it splitting hairs.

    My other option was to use my home address, my work address, my wife's work address, my next door neighbor (on either side of me), and my UPS Store mailbox (plus the 2 in the physical store). Doing just that, using various credit cards, I could easily have purchased 14 copies without even trying.

    With trying? 50 copies would have been doable...

    So I'm comfortable with my 6. :)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Legoboy said:

    But it's when your threshold is a mere "100% profit" and doesn't need the money it makes you less of a fan.

    I disagree...

    100% profit in 10 days vs. 100% profit in 1 year are not the same thing...

    On an annualized basis, that is a 3,650% profit. I'll take that any day of the week.

    When running a business, one has to take those profits when you can get them, since I still have a dozen Portal of Atlantis sets that no one wants. :)
    Legoboy said:

    Of course if someone was to offer a £10k or £1m I'd take it, but for you, I don't understand why as a real fan you'd rather have a grand say in your back pocket than have the honour of owning such a rare and exclusive set. It's not all about money.

    No, it isn't. I'll happily spend that $1,000 to take my kids to the beach for the weekend.

    It isn't all about money, it is about enjoying many things in life. I paid $137 for my #9398 4x4 Crawler, I'm happy with that. I don't need to open a $400 set that is more or less the same thing, just to have 2 of them.
    Legoboy said:

    And what 'real fan' wouldn't want to build THE exclusive Technic set over making a couple of hundred bucks? I would have thought for a picky real fan, this set would have been right up there as one to keep, one for the shelf? ;o)

    :) I'm sure there are many "real fans" right here on this forum who would, given the chance, love to build and keep this set, but can't because they don't have the money.

    That $200 might be rent money, or food money, and they'd be foolish to not eat for 2 weeks. :)

    But that doesn't make them "fake fans". :)

    I don't "need" the money, but it is a very slippery slope to start opening expensive items for personal use when this is a business. There comes a point where you have to be reasonable about it, and this is that point for me.

    :)
    pharmjod
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    I consider myself to be somewhat of a real fan of Lego(Technic especially) and I haven't built a set since 1999... So does this not make me a big of a fan as my wife who likes to build the sets..?
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,384
    edited August 2013

    samiam391 said:

    It is 2 per person/household/address, correct.

    Yes, they are welcome to purchase their own copies. From my understanding though, they aren't their own copies, but are rather being shipped onto you for you to re-sell and reap the whole of the profits. Or is that an incorrect statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding since you first mentioned you had managed 6 through family members.

    I suppose you might consider it splitting hairs.

    My other option was to use my home address, my work address, my wife's work address, my next door neighbor (on either side of me), and my UPS Store mailbox (plus the 2 in the physical store). Doing just that, using various credit cards, I could easily have purchased 14 copies without even trying.

    With trying? 50 copies would have been doable...

    So I'm comfortable with my 6. :)
    I could have done the same. Called my entire family, my parents, brothers, sisters, 2nd cousins, etc..

    But as I see it and how you've already stated, it was 2 per person/household/address. With the first, person, being the key word. Perhaps it's just me, but when I understand 2 per person, I also understand that as 2 per person living at one household at one address. Not as 6 per person, spread out over 3 households, at 3 addresses.

    It's true that TLG does a terrible job monitoring their system. I know someone that purchased 14 B-wings and didn't bat an eyelash. All from the same home, same credit card, same address. No reprimand from TLG, not right after, nor after a wait of a few months. But... just because they do a terrible job monitoring it, doesn't mean I should find all the loopholes and bypass the system. Whether my profits from such exploitation are $100, $500, or $100,000. 

    It is just my opinion obviously, and you could probably care less. I'm just another random person on the internet rambling about LEGO. :o)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited August 2013
    This thread is like all of the "evil resellers", Technic and the Prediction threads all rolled up into one.

    I'm not going to fault anyone for buying more than two. However, to "brag" about and constantly rubbing it in (you know who you are) is not right imo.

    "How rude" ;)
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    edited August 2013



    100% profit in 10 days vs. 100% profit in 1 year are not the same thing...

    On an annualized basis, that is a 3,650% profit. I'll take that any day of the week.

    When running a business, one has to take those profits when you can get them, since I still have a dozen Portal of Atlantis sets that no one wants. :)



    :) I'm sure there are many "real fans" right here on this forum who would, given the chance, love to build and keep this set, but can't because they don't have the money.

    That $200 might be rent money, or food money, and they'd be foolish to not eat for 2 weeks. :)

    But that doesn't make them "fake fans". :)

    I don't "need" the money, but it is a very slippery slope to start opening expensive items for personal use when this is a business. There comes a point where you have to be reasonable about it, and this is that point for me.

    :)

    And that's the point for me - for you it's business over being a 'fan'. Those people need the 4200 to eat, to pay their rent. You need the extra money to.....I don't know what you need the extra money for actually! That makes you less of a fan than many here, many that would love to own a #41999 at rrp but can't because many of the 20,000 sets have been bought through circumventing TLG's purchasing rules and sold for a quick buck.
    Coolsplashcheshirecat
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    edited August 2013
    Pitfall69 said:

    This thread is like all of the "evil resellers", Technic and the Prediction threads all rolled up into one.

    I'm not going to fault anyone for buying more than two. However, to "brag" about and constantly rubbing it in (you know who you are) is not right imo.

    "How rude" ;)

    Hey now, the 'Pickers are good people! Everybody in homeroom says so!
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    For those that like to cast some pebbles at the resellers, I'd like to know how you suggest Lego do this in the future? Limit 1*? Require a driver's license? Scan a fingerprint? The answer is, no matter what controls are in place, people will circumvent them and push the envelope to avoid them, especially with something that has such an obvious ROI. Why do sports seats sell out? Why do scalpers exist to sell those sold out seats at premium prices? Because people are willing to pay for them. If you want to stop the concept of scalping, solve the problem of those people who are willing to pay the premium prices. If those buyers aren't around, the scalpers would fade away.

    It's not a matter of "fault," but Lego made something, it's desirable and it's quite limited. Is anyone here honestly surprised at what happened? If little Timmy wanted his $200 crawler, perhaps little Timmy's dad should have been watching these forums and be online right at launch. Perhaps he was. I know my children got one because their dad was doing just that. Fortune favors the prepared mind, and fate punishes the lazy and ignorant. For better or for worse, this is how the world has always worked.

    * I do think it should have been a limit of 1, as it should have been for the B-wings. Lego could have helped curb the scalping at least a little bit by doing so.
    bp10030jasor
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890
    Legoboy said:



    100% profit in 10 days vs. 100% profit in 1 year are not the same thing...

    On an annualized basis, that is a 3,650% profit. I'll take that any day of the week.

    When running a business, one has to take those profits when you can get them, since I still have a dozen Portal of Atlantis sets that no one wants. :)



    :) I'm sure there are many "real fans" right here on this forum who would, given the chance, love to build and keep this set, but can't because they don't have the money.

    That $200 might be rent money, or food money, and they'd be foolish to not eat for 2 weeks. :)

    But that doesn't make them "fake fans". :)

    I don't "need" the money, but it is a very slippery slope to start opening expensive items for personal use when this is a business. There comes a point where you have to be reasonable about it, and this is that point for me.

    :)

    And that's the point for me - for you it's business over being a 'fan'. Those people need the 4200 to eat, to pay their rent. You need the extra money to.....I don't know what you need the extra money for actually! That makes you less of a fan than many here, many that would love to own a #41999 at rrp but can't because many of the 20,000 sets have been bought through circumventing TLG's purchasing rules and sold for a quick buck.
    Agree, though you may still be a fan (although more the fair-weather type), you are most assuredly less of one compared to those who open and build the set, price be damned. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It is what it is.

    I still have my 1st edition Falcon unopened, only because I still don't have the space to properly display it. But I will never sell it, not at $3k, not at $10k. When I die, my kids can sell it if they want. :)
    LegoboymargotCoolsplashDougoutjasor
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,384
    edited August 2013
    tensor said:

    For those that like to cast some pebbles at the resellers, I'd like to know how you suggest Lego do this in the future? Limit 1*? Require a driver's license? Scan a fingerprint? The answer is, no matter what controls are in place, people will circumvent them and push the envelope to avoid them, especially with something that has such an obvious ROI.

    And an eye scan!

    People will always circumvent the rules, you are right. It's in the human nature to take something good, and twist it. However, in this case with LEGO, I do think tighter restrictions would help. Limit 1, yes. I think that's a great idea. For the B-Wing, and for the #41999, and for some other sets too possibly. With the limit of 1, LEGO also would need to tighten down the hatches on those who do try and circumvent the rules. I'm not sure how this would be done, nor am I going to waste anyones' time babbling out random suggestions that probably wouldn't work... I'll leave it to LEGO to figure out :o)

    It's also our duty, as AFOLs and just people in general, to try and abide by the guidelines that the company puts in place. People may interpret the guidelines differently, as is such as the case here, and that's what happens. We can then take it to a LEGO forum and talk out our differences :o)
    tensor said:

    Because people are willing to pay for them. If you want to stop the concept of scalping, solve the problem of those people who are willing to pay the premium prices. If those buyers aren't around, the scalpers would fade away.

    People are willing to pay for them, but I imagine they'd prefer to pay for them at retail rather than an overprice. And if they don't have the opportunity to buy it at retail because certain people bought a lot of stock up before they had the chance to raise up funds, then can they really be the ones to point the finger at? Especially, in my personal opinion, if some people circumvented the rules a bit to buy up that extra stock.

    So often, the buyer is the problem. From sport seats to exclusive minifigures. However, I don't think one can specifically pin it on laziness. Going back to rocao's comments, what if they were simply raising up funds? Didn't have the budget that month to buy it. There could be a whole host of reasons.

    Some cases, it may be laziness, some it may not be.

    It's impossible to know the full story. Whether it was lazy or not lazy, resellers who bought all the 41999s or fans or when DS or FB are going to retire. :o)
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited August 2013
    samiam391 said:

    So often, the buyer is the problem. From sport seats to exclusive minifigures. However, I don't think one can specifically pin it on laziness. Going back to rocao's comments, what if they were simply raising up funds? Didn't have the budget that month to buy it. There could be a whole host of reasons.

    All fair points, I'll only respond to this one with the fact that this particular set has been known to be coming for a while now, certainly long enough to stow away $200 if someone really wanted it. Other than that, it's simply life - it should be, and we should strive for it to be, but sometimes it just isn't fair.
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,384
    edited August 2013
    tensor said:

    samiam391 said:

    So often, the buyer is the problem. From sport seats to exclusive minifigures. However, I don't think one can specifically pin it on laziness. Going back to rocao's comments, what if they were simply raising up funds? Didn't have the budget that month to buy it. There could be a whole host of reasons.

    All fair points, I'll only respond to this one with the fact that this particular set has been known to be coming for a while now, certainly long enough to stow away $200 if someone really wanted it. Other than that, it's simply life - it should be, and we should strive for it to be, but sometimes it just isn't fair.
    Certainly. Although I'll be one of the ones to raise his hand and say I had no idea what anyone was talking about on 12:01 am, August 1st. Only to wake up in the morning, do a little research, and subsequently find out that 41999 was out of stock on LEGO.com.

    I won't pretend like I'm a huge technic fan, because I'm not. I think they are neat little sets, and I do have to say I always look at them when I'm in the LEGO aisle. The closest thing I have to technic is my 10197, and I think the motorization of the legs is just doggone neat.

    To a huge technic fan, they definitely should have known. To the casual fan, such as myself (although I'm not quite on par with one), it would have been nice to have a lengthier period than 10 days to buy a set I just found out about. Whether that was to save up money, or if I was a child (or teenager) to talk it out with my parents.

    The world isn't fair, but there are things we can do to try and make it fairer.

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    @Bandit My UCS Falcon is opened as well. No room to display it right now and I bought it before I had kids. Waiting for the day to build it with my 2 daughters :)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    @samiam391. My brother n law, who is a huge Lego fan and has a 7 year old came over yesterday. I promptly asked him "Did you buy the Limited Edition Crawler?" He had no idea what it was. Doesn't make him less of a fan. He has been busy all summer helping his community clean up after a tornado hit his neighborhood last year. Planting trees and what not.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Pitfall69 said:

    @Bandit My UCS Falcon is opened as well. No room to display it right now and I bought it before I had kids. Waiting for the day to build it with my 2 daughters :)

    I meant to say, "My Falcon is opened, but I too don't have the room to display it."

  • jdylakjdylak Member Posts: 281

    There's always someone else to blame, isn't there ? I mean, God forbid that anyone take responsibility for their own actions....

    Interesting point of view...

    I'm honestly not sure where the "responsibility" part comes into it, I'm not stealing them, I'm not kicking Timmy out of the way to buy them. I'm not breaking any laws or bypassing any purchase limits.

    I actually think I'm being very responsible, but of course that is my humble opinion.

    I know how to work the system. If I wanted 50 of these, I'm quite sure I could have gotten them. I ended up with 6. 2 I purchased myself, 2 my mother purchased, 2 my brother purchased, and I left it at that.

    It's basically scalping, no ?

    In this case, yes, it is...

    Of course we could then debate if scalping is a good or bad thing, but I doubt we'd get anywhere. :)

    I "scalped" within the purchase limits TLG established, I followed the rules. So in my view, I'm a "responsible scalper". Those who bypass the rules to get 50 of them, are not.

    Just my opinion of course. :)
    Your mom and brother are big Lego fans too? My mom never really got into my Lego, just yelled at me when she'd step on a piece on the floor. Why would she want two of the set tho? Your brother got two as well? Oh, I know, you are all saving one neat in box and opening the other to have races at the next family reunion. Awesome!
    caperberryy2joshpillpod
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Oh boy. The sarcasm :) Every thread needs this from time to time.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    edited August 2013
    @jdylak - don't make me do it to you again! I have a very good memory! Just about everybody you know loves a B-Wing don't they? ;o)
    y2joshjasor
  • HardradaHardrada Member Posts: 439

    samiam391 said:

    It is 2 per person/household/address, correct.

    Yes, they are welcome to purchase their own copies. From my understanding though, they aren't their own copies, but are rather being shipped onto you for you to re-sell and reap the whole of the profits. Or is that an incorrect statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding since you first mentioned you had managed 6 through family members.

    I suppose you might consider it splitting hairs.

    My other option was to use my home address, my work address, my wife's work address, my next door neighbor (on either side of me), and my UPS Store mailbox (plus the 2 in the physical store). Doing just that, using various credit cards, I could easily have purchased 14 copies without even trying.

    With trying? 50 copies would have been doable...

    So I'm comfortable with my 6. :)
    If I get it right your argument is that you didn't break their rules/guidelines as you only broke them a 'little'. It sounds like the usual self-rationalization (? - is that the correct word in English?), wanting to see yourself in a better light.

    As a reseller myself I would have bought my allowed 2 copies at most if I wasn't on holiday and not one more. It just doesn't seem right on a limited item. I know of Technic fans who wanted it, missed it and will now never own it.
  • LegofanscottLegofanscott Member Posts: 622
    edited August 2013
    Hardrada said:

    samiam391 said:

    It is 2 per person/household/address, correct.

    Yes, they are welcome to purchase their own copies. From my understanding though, they aren't their own copies, but are rather being shipped onto you for you to re-sell and reap the whole of the profits. Or is that an incorrect statement? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it has been my understanding since you first mentioned you had managed 6 through family members.

    I suppose you might consider it splitting hairs.

    My other option was to use my home address, my work address, my wife's work address, my next door neighbor (on either side of me), and my UPS Store mailbox (plus the 2 in the physical store). Doing just that, using various credit cards, I could easily have purchased 14 copies without even trying.

    With trying? 50 copies would have been doable...

    So I'm comfortable with my 6. :)
    If I get it right your argument is that you didn't break their rules/guidelines as you only broke them a 'little'. It sounds like the usual self-rationalization (? - is that the correct word in English?), wanting to see yourself in a better light.

    As a reseller myself I would have bought my allowed 2 copies at most if I wasn't on holiday and not one more. It just doesn't seem right on a limited item. I know of Technic fans who wanted it, missed it and will now never own it.
    I personally still feel this set will drop in value, maybe not until after christmas or maybe not until sometime next year but i still think it will at some point or another.

    Im certain at some point it will become more affordable again
  • JamesJTJamesJT Member Posts: 440
    Pitfall69 said:



    constantly rubbing it in (you know who you are) is not right imo.

    "How rude" ;)

    Pitfall69 said:


    "Hahahaha. I got 7 and look at the prices of 41999 on EBay"

    Guilty!

    I did raise the #41999 subject on the other reseller thread and the consensus appered to be "it's technic so nobody cares" or "this will still ba available at Xmas". I was shocked to have more copies than LFT but I still fully expected plenty of fellow resellers to have seen this coming and bought up way more than I did.

    I did not expect some nutter in the UK to push up the price up so far so fast.
    It was like the countdown on #10212, a phenomenon we shall probably never see again.
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    edited August 2013
    Sounds to me from what I am piecing together in this thread is that the only people that can be true "fans" of any give hobby are the rich. Because they are the only ones where financial considerations really have no bearing.

    I wonder if any of your significant others (especially spouses) have any idea what some of your "toys" are worth and what they would have to say about the flip idea of "not for $10,000K would I sell X". My suspicion is that it would be an interesting conversation. One where I would very much enjoy being a fly on the wall to hear all the "but I'm a TRUE FAN " rationalizations.
    tedward
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    samiam391 said:

    The world isn't fair, but there are things we can do to try and make it fairer.

    Yes, TLG could make 200K of them instead of 20K. :)

    That would make far more difference than anything else discussed here. :)
    tedward
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited August 2013
    What IS a true fan of Lego? Someone who always builds what they buy? One who only has "minty" boxes of 100's of sets? There isn't a clear definition of what a true Lego fan is. Just because one can't afford to buy every Lego set doesn't make them less of a fan. If one can buy 10 of every Lego set doesn't make them more of a fan.
    Yellowcastletedward
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    I hear ya. My comment is really more that some of the suggestions here about who is or isn't a true fan border on the absurd. I've been to 3 LEGOLAND park's around the world including the original in Denmark. I went to LEGOLAND California opening day. I've been collecting out of my dark ages since 1997 or so. Yet i also wouldn't hesitate to sell ANY LEGO set for which I paid RRP or less for $1,000 or whatever the going rate that was equally obscene. I did so with Cafe Corner. I couldn't justify keeping a set that I could literally sell and buy 9-10 more modulars with the profit's from. I guess that makes me not much of a true fan because common sense kicked in at some point.
    Pitfall69gmpiratetedward
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited August 2013
    ^^^^ I think its definitely fair to say, you're not a real fan if you haven't hidden actual LEGO or their value from your better half! Isn't that a key part of the hobby Even where your other half even likes LEGO they don't need to know everything do they? ;-)

    People know where I stand on this, not really any problem with someone buying a second in an attempt to pay for the first, after all TLG put the limit at 2. But wilfully circumventing those rules, which clearly getting your mother and brother and any other family member to buy two is, is clearly wrong. Clearly not illegal, but if you had to go to the bother of ordering in someone else's name or getting them to do it for you, its plainly obvious its not right.

    It would be nice if reading this someone at LEGO put two and two together and decided to now ban in store the person they've banned from [email protected] It would be nice if they also banned your extended family @LFT but sadly I doubt that's possible. Its nothing personal, but knowing that the rule exists, you decided the rule didn't have to apply to you - much like those who double park, or jump ques. Not illegal, not worth getting upset over, but annoying, anti-social and just a little dickish.

    TechnicNickYellowcastleDougout
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Exactly my point.

    Well...another thread severely off topic, which is fine because I'm not a "fan" of Technic...lol.

    I asked this question before. Is there a huge market for Technic parts? I have a ton of them, but I don't know what to do with them.
    Legoboy
  • Thanos75Thanos75 Member Posts: 1,120
    edited August 2013
    @LFT ...... I will gladly buy one of those Atlantis sets that nobody wants for $20. I dont have one yet and seeing how much money your about to make off of the Crawler set it wouldnt even dent your annual LEGO profit.
    LegoFanTexasYellowcastlemargotCoolsplashjasor
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