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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited December 2012
    y2josh said:

    Pitfall69 said:

    klaatu barada nikto!!! Are they in that new Desert Skiff set?

    Come on. Everyone knows Klaatu was on the barge and Barada was on the second skiff.

    And I thought you were a fan...
    I was trying to be funny with my Army of Darkness reference and relate it to Lego.

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    lulwut said:

    Dad said:

    Ok, I see your point. But when they are stacking the sets to hold for a long time what is their reasoning. Hey, I know what I'll do, I'll hold on to these for x amount of time so I can provide a genuine service to others OR I'll hold on to these for x amount of time in the hope I maximise my profits. That's my point.

    What are you trying to debate? The whole reselling scheme is profit driven. Are you expecting people to selflessly hold onto them and sell at cost?


    Again, this debate is ridiculous. Every company provides some sort of service, but their main goal is to make money and lots of it. Of course people stockpile Lego (or any collectible) to make a profit, but by default, they are also providing a service.

  • thehotsungthehotsung Member Posts: 3

    I buy a $100 set in 2002... 10 Years later in 2012 I sell that same set on Ebay for $100.. I pay Ebay Fees and Paypal fees, I go in the hole so someone else can get that set for what I paid for it...

    I don't get it..

    I'm not oppose to re-seller making a profit hence I made a point about good and bad re-sellers, but the problem I have is re-sellers are not good because they tend to buy more than one of a set if they know it will net them profit, so don't use the excuse that re-sellers give you chances to buy old set when in reality chances are without those re-sellers, those set would still be on sales in store if it wasn't for that one guy that got 50 of the same sets. There are people with 50 QAR right now waiting to sale them at double the price. That is motive, and a bad one.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^That's fine with me. Likely, this "hypothetical person" may be selling these in the future to provide for his family. Unemployment is rampant here in the States and I applaud people at least making an effort to make a living other than living off the government. I know that @LegoFanTexas probably has 50 QAR's, but he also employs people to pack and ship those QAR's, so he's not only providing for his family, but other families as well.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    The alternative reality for those 50 QARs doesn't exis anyway. Retailers don't have the shelf space to stock more than x number of sets. If resellers didn't buy them they wouldn't still be sitting on the shelf they would have been progressively clearanced and finally sent wherever unsold merchandise gets sent
    StuBoy
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^This

    When QAR was available, I could go to every Walmart, Target and Toys r us in my area and I would be lucky to come away with 15-20 of them. It was a big set and there was only 3-4 of these on the shelves at one time...and they sat...and sat...and then clearanced.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    And then little Jimmy walked into the store . . .
  • VaderXVaderX Member Posts: 220
    ^lol, you did not give thehotsung a chance to grab these three or four at a substantial discount. He was waiting for 95% off, Geeez.

    How dare you buy them at a discount without giving him a chance to buy one at a discount or MSRP over any point in time in the last two years it was on that shelf!

    Buying addition sets to possibly resale later is a huge gamble! Only a small percentage of the hundreds of sets Lego produces each year go up in value after they are discontinued.

    The funny part about most of these sets that do go up past MSRP were priced below MSRP at most retailers before going away to the 'greedy' aftermarket sellers.

    ha, this thread is officially derailed and ridiculous. Please people stop complaining and go play with your Lego.
  • thehotsungthehotsung Member Posts: 3
    VaderX said:

    ^lol, you did not give thehotsung a chance to grab these three or four at a substantial discount. He was waiting for 95% off, Geeez.

    How dare you buy them at a discount without giving him a chance to buy one at a discount or MSRP over any point in time in the last two years it was on that shelf!

    Buying addition sets to possibly resale later is a huge gamble! Only a small percentage of the hundreds of sets Lego produces each year go up in value after they are discontinued.

    The funny part about most of these sets that do go up past MSRP were priced below MSRP at most retailers before going away to the 'greedy' aftermarket sellers.

    ha, this thread is officially derailed and ridiculous. Please people stop complaining and go play with your Lego.

    Na you got it all wrong, I have no interest in the QAR. Imperial flagship yes, but not QAR or BP. The QAR was just an example since some guys on another forum said he had 50 QAR for re-sell and was telling people to pick it up before it gone to make a profit.

    As for LegoFanTexas, I have no doubt he has good intention. I do disagree on half the points he made but he also help a lot of people on this forum as well or so I read. He isn't a typical re-sellers. Like everything else there is good and bad re-sellers. Though my original points still stand.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    jdylak said:

    I'll put in my 2 cent.

    Lego are already expensive, and certainly overprice at MSRP. I don't really buy Lego unless they are at least 40% off though there are exception if it a set I really want then I can go for 25% off. Why would I pay 2 times or more as much as MSRP? To Sum it up, Lego at MSRP are overprice, Lego at re-sellers price is a ripoff!

    However in my opinion, re-selling of any kind and not just Lego is just bad. There really nothing good that come out of it. You may say that your doing a benefit to the Lego community by selling items that is no longer available but every time I see those ridiculous price on Amazon, I clearly see the real motive behind it.

    While there are better re-sellers than other, the end goal is profit at other people expenses. And I question someone moral and values when they try to cheat others.

    Talk to me after you sell your first house. You expect me to believe that you will take the same price that you paid 5 / 10 years earlier on it? It's called appreciation, and some things appreciate the older they get and some tend to become more valuable than others. It's the nature of the beast...

    I'd LOVE to get what we paid for our house even two years ago. Values have dropped so bad around here it isn't even funny. Heck, a frclosed house two houses down sold for $25,000 dropping our value by $5000. That's just one house.
    House prices have dropped since 2007, but they are recovering (in the UK at least), and as a long term purchase the general concensus is that they will appreciate in value. Your short term situation is not representative of the bigger picture. House price drops can be advantageous. In our case we bought a house in 2008. Our own house was worth £20k less than it was a year previous, but the house we bought was £40k less than it would've been a year previous. In the UK it's the tightening of lending criteria that is stifling the market - plenty of willing buyers who can't get a mortgage because they don't have a 25% deposit saved up, and they're paying more in rent than they would pay in mortgage.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited December 2012
    @monkeyhanger - I'm guessing that was aimed at me? You may have noticed I've distinguished for about the last 6 pages between those that resell items that are widely available and those that purposefully buy items that are in short supply. They buy them because they know they can turn around a significant profit almost immediately and in doing so increase the supply issues of that item and hence increase the profit they can make. Its profiteering and its entirely reasonable to think its not nice, most recently we've sen it with Minecrafts, friends advent calendars and I'm sure there are others.

    As for the polys - if you also knew you'd know that I get a small number early on in the day and then a larger number late in the day or more normally the next day - hence not depriving other people - I get them for ourselves mostly, they're useful as little treats and especially to pop into birthday party bags not to mention their usefulness for parts. I don't think I double dipped once - I never needed to as my WHSmith staff were always happy to hand them over without any vouchers anyway, often times in far larger quantities that I would ever have asked for.

    As for what I've done with them - I've made one trade in the UK which was a last minute replacement for money on an existing trade at the sellers request not mine and a single trade in the US. I've sent about 8 to the US for no money or trade, I've just sent a box of about 30 to someone in the UK collecting them for SEN children, and no I haven't traded any of them for anything not Lego.

    As it happens I've also just sent a Minecraft set to the US at cost, no profit and postage costs actually less than I'm spending. It was cheaper for them to pay the $16 more RRP here than in the US and the $12 postage than buy it from a reseller! I've also handed over two more minecraft sets to parents of my kids friends who couldn't get them cheap - also at cost price. I suppose at worst you could say i kept the VIP points on those, but at 5% thats less than a pint each.

    So no, I'm quite happy that how i behave and what I say ties in nicely.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited December 2012
    I don't think its as simple as a Left/Right thing (and lets not forget the definition of that changes drastically from country to country - the current Conservative party are probably much more closely aligned to the democrats in the US the the republicans and thats probably been the case for some time. I'm certainly more to the Right than the Left, I have a good job, I own my own home, I'm an engineer, got a degree and a PhD, went to private school and good universities. I've never voted Labour in my life. I have no problem with people working hard and making money - it should be rewarded. I'm not too fussed about the likes of starbucks, amazon and google not paying their Corporation tax here - we benefit from that particular law far more than we loose out thanks to companies like GSK and BP. There is however good capitalism and bad capitalism. There is profit made alongside providing a service, value added, sustainable. Then there is profit made for the sake of profit, an imaginary profit or growth that doesn't really exist other than on a piece of paper. Living in the West we've benefited from that piece of paper, although one day the reality of that particular lie will surely show to everyone, it did in 2008 and yet it carries on. And when it does we're all doomed. You look at the national debt per person in the US, no clear path as to how its going to be paid off, at some point no doubt many years down the line its going to come home, not to us, probably not our children either, but to someone in our families children.
    pcirone
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    Cheshirecat: wasn't aiming at you particularly (just an amalgamation of various posts observed from various posters), and didn't anticipate you feeling the need to justify your actions. IMO there are more than a few people on here with flexible morals when they can't or won't commit money to buying multiple sets, but will happily wade in for many multiples of polybags that aren't for their own personal play/display because they are minimal cost for maximum gain and barter with them later. For me those polybags are what every little timmy can afford at any given time as long as they have access to TRU/WHS to cash in the voucher in the paper. I know that some branches of WHS had a surplus, but equally there are others that sell out in hours. I can't see why they then feel morally superior to a reseller who is completely transparent about what they do, it just seems hypocritical to me.

    Buying anything in short supply is just enterprise as far as i'm concerned. They take a risk and maybe it pays off. For things like minecraft, Friends calendars etc they can buy up at retail to sell at a higher rate and hope that TLG doesn't bring in a new consignment in the meantime. If anyone is to blame there it's TLG for not making enough for demand. If people want minecraft enough to pay £80 for one (one of most mediocre looking sets ever IMO) when they're not freely available then more fool them. The whole friends calendar situation looked to me that US sellers were buying from Europe where there were plenty of them and then selling where TLG had failed to make proper provisions for and making it worth their while in the process. I see nothing wrong with that, no one is forcing them to make that purchase. In that exact situation I do consider it a service, making something available that has sold out via traditional retail channels, albeit at a profit. Who in their right mind is going to do that for no gain, unless as a personal favour to a few friends, presumably to get a return favour at a later date.

    Supply and demand dictate prices and for some it seems innappropriate for anywhere but a retail unit to be selling Lego without appearing grubby. There are many people pay top dollar for a set knowing full well that although it seems overpriced for a toy, they'll see their money back at a later point if they sell up. How many people would pay £800+ for a 10179 if it was worth next to nowt as soon as you cracked the box open? I'd certainly live without.
  • VaderXVaderX Member Posts: 220
    That's great thehotsung, it just so happens the Imperial flag ship was also available below MSRP before major retailers such as Amazon stopped receiving supply. This set also had a very long shelf life.

    The fact you did not purchase this set at any point in time while it was easily found at many retailers is not the fault of any 'aftermarket' sellers. In fact you would not even have the option of buying a new sealed copy of this set if these sellers did not take the time, spend the money, and make the effort of posting it for sale.

    Just because one seller is willing to make a smaller percentage on a sale then others would be for the same item, this makes them good or bad? Your also assuming that they both purchased the items for identical prices. Also wrong again. You logic is way off base. They both make a profit so your argument doesn't hold a grain of salt.

    Just because people publicize kind acts does not make them good or bad. Most people do kind acts on a daily basis and nobody would ever know the difference. Its called living in a civilized society, people who do the right thing to make this world a better place for us all.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I just want to point out that I had about 3 days when the IF was at $139.99 to pull the trigger and grab one and I didn't do it. I had a ton of time to grab one at RRP, but I didn't. I even sent a text to my brother n law saying that we should pick up the IF for $139.99. I still missed out. I picked up one for $300 from a reseller here. He even hand delivered it to my business. Yes, he bought them to resell and yes he made 2.2x RRP, but because he bought them when I couldn't (I have no idea why) I was able to obtain one at a great price.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    You see, I must be in a different world because I don't mind that people were buying up Minecraft sets and selling them for 2.5x RRP. We don't know anything about these people. Maybe they are trying to make money for Christmas, maybe they are trying to fund their Lego habit (if you have a problem with that this forum is not the place for you) Maybe they are trying to make ends meet by taking advantage of an opportunity. Whatever the reason I don't care because it is free enterprise.
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 816
    lulwut said:

    Dad said:

    Ok, I see your point. But when they are stacking the sets to hold for a long time what is their reasoning. Hey, I know what I'll do, I'll hold on to these for x amount of time so I can provide a genuine service to others OR I'll hold on to these for x amount of time in the hope I maximise my profits. That's my point.

    What are you trying to debate? The whole reselling scheme is profit driven. Are you expecting people to selflessly hold onto them and sell at cost?


    No. You have misunderstood. Another member said along the lines of resellers who buy up sets and hold onto them for along period of time are providing a genuine service yet they dislike resellers who buy up stock in short supply. I am saying they are both profit driven, that the reseller who sits on it for a long period of time is doing it to maximise their profit, not to provide a service.
    But I have no issue with this. I am sat on 10195's, 10185's, 10210's, and all the rest. But I can assure you, and some won't like it, that I am not doing it to provide a genuine service to those that missed out, it is for the sole reason to maximise my return from the money I tied up in them.

  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    ^ Lots of misunderstanding. I wasn't suggesting (well not meaning to anyway) that resellers holding on to EOL stock were doing it in order to provide a service, but rather they are perhaps unwittingly providing a service that is of use to many. By buying up stock in store and online of an item that is already scarce and in so doing making it even more scarce just so they can make a significant and immediate turn around is (imo) different and worse.

    I actually think @Pitfall69 has answered the original question:

    "You see, I must be in a different world"

    That's exactly it, we do and we see things differently - we as a community I mean. Neither is right or wrong but we'll see ourselves as exactly that whichever side of the fence we sit on. In many cases its not jealousy or lack of ambition or drive or lack of funds to buy and hold stock. We just live in different worlds and see things differently. Personally I do see much of the exploitative reselling as grimy, and I know I'm not alone in that. Equally there are plenty of resellers and non-resellers that don't. Neither is right or wrong, outside of our own opinions.

    I can honestly say I'm not jealous of anyone here, perhaps a more accepting wife would be the only issue. The only set that I genuinely regret missing out on (Dark ages meant I missed it by a couple of months) is the emerald night. I'd love one at what was RRP or even discounted but I missed out and don't care/worry enough to go after it now. I'm sure there'll be another similar set soon enough, probably sometime after the HE goes EOL. It will likely be even better and yes, probably more expensive - but still better than the resale market prices for EN. And besides there are always more than enough Lego sets currently available to keep me happy.
  • tmgm528tmgm528 Member Posts: 457
    EVERYONE LISTEN!
    This topic has gone way further than it needed to. The question was why so much anger toward resellers? The answer is some people think its not fair buying up stock or charging more than its worth. DONE. Not so tough right. The people here are treating it like who hates resellers and who hates non resellers. If that's what you want the discussion to be make your own post. I got farther into this conversation then I wanted to last night. I think we should leave it at that.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654

    I'd love one at what was RRP or even discounted but I missed out and don't care/worry enough to go after it now. I'm sure there'll be another similar set soon enough, probably sometime after the HE goes EOL. It will likely be even better and yes, probably more expensive - but still better than the resale market prices for EN. And besides there are always more than enough Lego sets currently available to keep me happy.

    Pretty much how I feel as well. I just purchased a used Holiday Train for my boys' Christmas display but other than that, I really am not interested in paying RRP+ for EOL'd sets. And I'm a reseller too! But I am not willing to pay for RRP+ sets that other people pay me for :P

    Like you said, newer sets will come along to take their place.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    A voice told me today that Lego receives serious complaints about second market prices, particularly sets which are in short supply but have a high demand, i.e. Minecraft. Apparently, many customers don't understand how Lego can be out of a set when it's available online for 120%, and are putting it down to greed on behalf of Lego.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    Most people have no understanding of economics, business, markets, taxes, etc. so it is no surprise. Just look at the comments here on the boards from some people who think Lego just charges certain countries more for their products than others for no reason. Businesses are just evil :P
    mressin
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    mressin said:

    A voice told me today that Lego receives serious complaints about second market prices, particularly sets which are in short supply but have a high demand, i.e. Minecraft. Apparently, many customers don't understand how Lego can be out of a set when it's available online for 120%, and are putting it down to greed on behalf of Lego.

    not surprising, about half the general population are sheep with little ability to think and reason for themselves. What's LEGO supposed to do? Other than very strict limits, there isn't much they can do - and people will easily find a way to get around limits anyway.

    Honestly, there are very few examples of short supply for in-production sets. Most are widely available for months and years at a time. this time of year can have exceptions - and there are a number of them right now (10226 being a prime case, as well as Minecraft). but that is true at this time of year for lots and lots of toys - not just LEGO. If you have to have "item X", you always want to get it early. Wait too long, and you just might be SOL.

    Redbullgivesuwind
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^ didn't know that about 10226 . . .
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    And strange since they are available on [email protected]
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769


    As it happens I've also just sent a Minecraft set to the US at cost, no profit and postage costs actually less than I'm spending. It was cheaper for them to pay the $16 more RRP here than in the US and the $12 postage than buy it from a reseller! I've also handed over two more minecraft sets to parents of my kids friends who couldn't get them cheap - also at cost price. I suppose at worst you could say i kept the VIP points on those, but at 5% thats less than a pint each.

    I hope you also got the free Christmas set(s) with the minecraft sets.

    I bought three on one of my promo weekend orders, total was £105. Got the 10% off (£10.50), VIP points (so another £5) and the free Christmas set. Sold them on eBay, offered at 99p start including postage, no reserve. So I let the market pay what they wanted. They all sold for between £44 and £50. After postage (£3.15) and ebay and paypal fees, there is virtually no real profit compared to their £35 cost - maybe a couple of quid. So I maybe made £10 which was the discount on the large order. But of course it nets me £5 VIP points and the free Christmas set, which was the driving factor for doing it.

    I did another minecraft plus £15 of PAB order and sold the minecraft - again no real profit on it, just the Christmas set (and 50 VIP points).
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208
    I'm all for resellers holding sets for eventual profit. They fill a very important niche in this ecosystem.

    But I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.
    Legoboysamiam391margotPitfall69Phoneboothy2joshjasor
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337

    I'm all for resellers holding sets for eventual profit. They fill a very important niche in this ecosystem.

    But I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.

    I find the market action on this one very interesting (especially with the guy in the UK maneuvering to corner the market). TLG must be kicking themselves they did not do the same thing with the UCS B-Wing lol.
  • itsnotmeitsnotme Member Posts: 122

    TLG must be kicking themselves they did not do the same thing with the UCS B-Wing lol.

    Yeah, I don't know about that. It brings up an interesting point. What does TLG have to gain from this strategy with #41999? In reality, it benefits resellers (potentially) far more than TLG, as the profit margin is probably relatively low given hand packing and special parts versus the standard crawler, and on top of that they sold very few of them. They discourage reselling, so why execute a strategy that clearly helps resellers more than themselves?

    Part of me suspects this is a ruse to identify resellers, like they somehow know which number each online buyer or in-store VIP received and can track them...

    Kidding of course (mostly).
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I'm all for resellers holding sets for eventual profit. They fill a very important niche in this ecosystem.

    But I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.

    Why?

    That is a serious, honest question...
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    edited August 2013

    ....I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.

    Like feeding time at the zoo.

    I 've been trying to secure one for a US mate to no avail. If anybody with multiples can help out.....yes please. :-)
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013
    @Yellowcastle: I'm with you. I don't begrudge resellers apart from the ones who don't play by the rules .

    And though I don't doubt there is real demand for this set, a part of me is hoping that what we're seeing is largely artificial demand such that the reality falls far short from the loftier aspirations.

  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    Most went into the hands of fans and not resellers which is precisely why supply on the secondary market is so thin and the UK buyer can happily buy them all and control the market. So this was a success in terms of limiting the stock to resellers. The flipside of course is a large and quick spike in prices for the small amount of resellers who did manage to scoop some.

    So you may see prices head to $700 quickly for 1k sets on the secondary market which is alot better than $400 for the usual 20k or so sets (by a factor of 10).
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337

    I'm all for resellers holding sets for eventual profit. They fill a very important niche in this ecosystem.

    But I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.

    Well if it makes you feel any better this was not the typical SD crowd who are buying up minecraft and the delorean and not re-investing in Lego product. I'm sure any money made will go straight back into clearing out Walmart aisles to support your ecosystem.
  • itsnotmeitsnotme Member Posts: 122
    edited August 2013
    I really messed that up the first time. Corrected:

    TLG must be kicking themselves they did not do the same thing with the UCS B-Wing lol.

    Yeah, I don't know about that. It brings up an interesting point. What does TLG have to gain from this strategy with #41999? In reality, it benefits resellers (potentially) far more than TLG, as the profit margin is probably relatively low given hand packing and special parts versus the standard crawler, and on top of that they sold very few of them. They discourage reselling, so why execute a strategy that clearly helps resellers more than themselves?

    Part of me suspects this is a ruse to identify resellers, like they somehow know which number each online buyer or in-store VIP received and can track them. I think the mysterious buyer snapping everything up in the UK is actually TLG. It's part of their new black ops unit.

    Kidding of course (mostly).


  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208

    I'm all for resellers holding sets for eventual profit. They fill a very important niche in this ecosystem.

    But I find this blatant feeding frenzy on #41999 to be quite distasteful.

    Well if it makes you feel any better this was not the typical SD crowd who are buying up minecraft and the delorean and not re-investing in Lego product. I'm sure any money made will go straight back into clearing out Walmart aisles to support your ecosystem.
    I think of it more like a red tide.

  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290

    Why?

    That is a serious, honest question...

    Speaking for myself, it's mostly along the lines of sentiment such as "I don't like Technic, but I picked up 6", "Can you make money on these? I don't know anything about Technic. Okay, I managed to get 4. Next stop... profit!". Basically, it's the situation that some real fans will be deprived of this set at a reasonable price by those that see it as nothing more than a commodity.

    Most went into the hands of fans and not resellers which is precisely why supply on the secondary market is so thin and the UK buyer can happily buy them all and control the market. So this was a success in terms of limiting the stock to resellers. The flipside of course is a large and quick spike in prices for the small amount of resellers who did manage to scoop some.

    This remains to be seen. Many sets bought to be resold are obviously being held back at the moment.
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013
    itsnotme said:

    Yeah, I don't know about that. It brings up an interesting point. What does TLG have to gain from this strategy with #41999? In reality, it benefits resellers (potentially) far more than TLG, as the profit margin is probably relatively low given hand packing and special parts versus the standard crawler, and on top of that they sold very few of them. They discourage reselling, so why execute a strategy that clearly helps resellers more than themselves?

    Maybe they really just wanted to do something special for the fans and put profit considerations on the backburner.

    Since this is based on an existing design, they were only ever going to be made in a more limited quantity. Perhaps they derived the production number as a fraction of the sales volume of comparably large technic sets. Perhaps they based it on the number of fan votes during the competition to find the winning design.

    They decided to give it the special treatment with numbered plates and a nice box. They kept the price the same despite 3 additional PF parts, a higher piece count overall, and some new exclusive elements. So it appears that they really were doing something special for fans as the primary motivation. Maybe it was too idealistic for them to think sales would unfold any other way than they have, but I do consider it a shame.
    Yellowcastleitsnotmecharlatan13Legoboy
  • LegoManiaccLegoManiacc Member Posts: 116
    It is a bit like counting your money in public. It's not inexcusable, but it is considered poor taste by some and prone to getting a reaction you might not like if in the wrong part of town (or the Internet).

    Then again, this is a thread specifically about aftermarket Technic, so I guess people should already know what to expect coming in.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    Why?

    That is a serious, honest question...

    Speaking for myself, it's mostly along the lines of sentiment such as "I don't like Technic, but I picked up 6", "Can you make money on these? I don't know anything about Technic. Okay, I managed to get 4. Next stop... profit!". Basically, it's the situation that some real fans will be deprived of this set at a reasonable price by those that see it as nothing more than a commodity.
    Fair enough, I can understand that...

    However, in fairness, is it really the fault of the reseller here? Why no bad vibes toward TLG for creating the situation in the first place?

    I can only deal the hand I'm dealt, but TLG can make 200,000 more of these if they wanted to. If "real fans" will be deprived of this set, is that my fault, or the fault of TLG for not making more of them?

    BTW, I'm a "real fan", I have a whole bookshelf of Technic built, I find it to be amazing what can be done with it. But I'm still not going to build one, I can't justify it given what the value is (and will become). So TLG is harming the fan in me as well, since I'd actually like to build the set, but when I can flip them in 10 days for a 100% profit, I'd be crazy to build one. :)

    BTW, I'll take that over on the $600 bet for next year. :)
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013

    Well if it makes you feel any better this was not the typical SD crowd who are buying up minecraft and the delorean and not re-investing in Lego product.

    There was a SD thread that received a 4 "thumbs up" rating, which if you follow SD, is very rare for a listing of a product that is MSRP. That means that community judged it as a good deal. And when that happens, that's enough of a reason for most to buy.
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    edited August 2013
    rocao said:

    Speaking for myself, it's mostly along the lines of sentiment such as "I don't like Technic, but I picked up 6", "Can you make money on these? I don't know anything about Technic. Okay, I managed to get 4. Next stop... profit!". Basically, it's the situation that some real fans will be deprived of this set at a reasonable price by those that see it as nothing more than a commodity.

    I'm sure some people purchased the model only to make a profit. I don't think anyone would dispute that. However, I respectfully disagree that any "real fans" were truly deprived of the opportunity to purchase the model, at least in the U.S. In the U.S., this set was available online for a prolonged period (more than a few hours) on at least two occasions. If someone wanted to buy it in store, they could have taken the day off work to buy one the first day of release and probably would have had no problem getting one or two.

    Regarding my own situation, I would like to have purchased this model to build. I didn't like the model at first, but sort of changed my mind after watching a youtube video or two. As such, I didn't purchase it online when I had the opportunity, and therefore missed out. I was lucky to purchase the last one from a Lego store near me. Since prices have sky rocketed, it's tough to justify keeping it when I have a regular crawler sitting on a shelf waiting to be built. Aw well.

    People that flipped their set quickly for a $25 profit must be kicking themselves right now..

    I was thinking the same thing. I just saw a few go yesterday morning or so for $299 + shipping of $30 or so. If these same people would have waited a few hours, they probably could have sold for $400. Whoops!
  • tom4086tom4086 Member Posts: 689
    I find it quite amusing when people talk of Lego fans being deprived of this set due to others who are buying it only to resell.

    Lego made #41999 available online and in store. They limited it to two per person. They sold it worldwide. They priced it accordingly. Yes it sold out fast, but that's the nature of the market, popular sets (or any item in fact) sell out quickly.

    @itsnotme stated "They discourage reselling, so why execute a strategy that clearly helps resellers more than themselves?" - I think you only need look at the SDCC promos and their extremely limited 200 number to realise Lego will do what's right for Lego. They know most of those promos will find their way to the secondary market, and every year they actively encourage it, reducing the numbers further and further and making them even more difficult to obtain.
  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118
    It would be even more fascinating (at least to me) to have some sort of system on the box that simply indicates that it has been opened and uploads that information to a public website (no personal information - just a running tally). You have to think that those Technic enthusiasts would have known the release date and the Limited Edition aspect and would have purchased one in the first couple of days.

    I'm not concerned about the reselling aspect since the set doesn't appeal to me personally. I think what rocao stated above makes sense in terms of the 20,000 produced since Lego probably has a good idea about the Technic market and the appeal of various models.

    Who knows. Based on the success of Mr. Gold & this set it might open a whole new exclusive,
    limited edition line of Lego in years to come.
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013
    nkx1 said:

    I'm sure some people purchased the model only to make a profit. I don't think anyone would dispute that. However, I respectfully disagree that any "real fans" were truly deprived of the opportunity to purchase the model, at least in the U.S. In the U.S., this set was available online for a prolonged period (more than a few hours) on at least two occasions. If someone wanted to buy it in store, they could have taken the day off work to buy one the first day of release and probably would have had no problem getting one or two.

    Regarding my own situation, I would like to have purchased this model to build. I didn't like the model at first, but sort of changed my mind after watching a youtube video or two. As such, I didn't purchase it online when I had the opportunity, and therefore missed out. I was lucky to purchase the last one from a Lego store near me. Since prices have sky rocketed, it's tough to justify keeping it when I have a regular crawler sitting on a shelf waiting to be built. Aw well.

    Not everyone has a LEGO store nearby. Not everyone can take the day off work. Believe it or not, not everyone had $200 in ready funds during the half day it was available. And not everyone was aware of or remembered the August 1st release of the set. The very fact that you describe the intimate knowledge you had about the set yet still were "lucky to purchase the last one" shows that some will be missing out.

    I'm not saying resellers did anything unfair by purchasing the set when it was available (though buying more than 2, even if by using someone else's name or not, is pushing it). But fair or not, now that the set is sold out, people who wanted to own the set certainly were deprived of the opportunity to do so at retail price and resellers contributed to that.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    rocao said:

    There was a SD thread that received a 4 "thumbs up" rating, which if you follow SD, is very rare for a listing of a product that is MSRP. That means that community judged it as a good deal. And when that happens, that's enough of a reason for most to buy.

    Less than a handful of SDers got in on 41999 that I am aware of.....I am sure it got thumbs up but they all went long on 21103 (general scalpers are not going to drop $200 on something they don't understand when 21103 was to follow the same pattern as minecraft for $35 )....see the discrepancy in volume between 41999 and 21103 on ebay?
  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,380
    edited August 2013
    rocao said:

    Not everyone has a LEGO store nearby. Not everyone can take the day off work. Believe it or not, not everyone had $200 in ready funds during the half day it was available.

    Exactly. I wasn't exactly salivating over a #41999, but to give credence to rocao's point, I'm not in walking distance of a LEGO store. The nearest store to me is roughly 2 and a half hours away, just outside of Cincinnati. To even make the trip would cost me an entire Saturday, I certainly wouldn't take off a day of work to do it.
    rocao said:

    I'm not saying resellers did anything unfair by purchasing the set when it was available (though buying more than 2, even if by using someone else's name or not, is pushing it). But fair or not, now that the set is sold out, people who wanted to own the set certainly were deprived of the opportunity to do so at retail price and resellers contributed to that.

    This. I'm a big supporter of re-sellers. I'm one myself in the minifigure business (small time), to partially fund my hobby. I think it's great I can go to eBay a few years after my favorite set has retired and still find it available to purchase (albeit at a much higher price).

    However, and this is just a personal opinion, I've never been fond of those that order over a purchase limit. It's a guideline, sure, and not a stated rule. A guideline that is easily passed. And yes, people had "plenty of time" (if you can count 10 days time to buy an item as such) to purchase the set, either online or at their local store.

    Still though, that doesn't give someone a reason to go over the purchase limit. What's the reasoning behind doing so, from a re-sellers perspective? It's an honest question that isn't being asked in an accusing way... I would honestly like to know.

    Most went into the hands of fans and not resellers which is precisely why supply on the secondary market is so thin and the UK buyer can happily buy them all and control the market. So this was a success in terms of limiting the stock to resellers. The flipside of course is a large and quick spike in prices for the small amount of resellers who did manage to scoop some.

    Where is that first sentence coming from? I think it's safe to say the opposite. I've heard of a whopping three people so far that have actually opened their set to build it and revel at it. Otherwise, I've heard people gleefully swapping information on the number they have hidden in their closet for Christmas.

    Best of luck to the UK buyer, he's in for a surprise. He will not be able to control the market like he thinks. It's a lot bigger than most people think. That leads back to my comments roughly 2 pages ago on another thread (these threads get comments quick!) made yesterday, so I want dive deeply into that again (except when Christmas time comes :o) ).
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    rocao said:

    There was a SD thread that received a 4 "thumbs up" rating, which if you follow SD, is very rare for a listing of a product that is MSRP. That means that community judged it as a good deal. And when that happens, that's enough of a reason for most to buy.

    I remember getting that email alert a day or two before they were available. Very crassly worded, basically putting up a blinking neon sign: "Feeding trough this way! You don't have to eat it, or even like it, just get it!"
  • LootefiskLootefisk Member Posts: 67
    edited August 2013
    The UK buyer isn't "cornering the market" he's really just raising the original base price that 41999 is going for on eBay.

    If he can buy 20 at an average price of $300 and in the same Instance raise everyone's expectations that these will sell for $400+ he's probably accomplished his objectives. Short term.
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