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Why is there so much censorship here?

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Comments

  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,479
    The other problem I see is that people are making comments on these boards solely for inflaming the rest of the community to take a discussion to epic levels, or WAY off course from anything Lego (see the 2011 City calendar thread). I have to say it has to be difficult to be a moderator only because you have to try to find if the line has been crossed (or to stop the Lego layers from calling), and if so to stop a thread, or nix a comment.. and if you do that ,then you can get threads like this one.

    Like others have said, if you really do not like how you perceive the forum, then don't post, or find another. Much of what i,s and is not allowed, is at the discretion of the moderators and I am fine with that... Heck, sometimes it helps people find their limits when they find their comment redacted, removed, or if a moderator has to interject to keep a thread on topic. Obviously there are certain members on this forum that take themselves WAYYY too seriously and really need to take a look in the mirror, take a deep breath, and count to 10, before posting....
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited September 2011
    Ok, this is a warning that this discussion must stay on topic or risks being closed. We value feedback and welcome criticism, but portions of the discussion have devolved and I have no qualms about taking action... and I'm American.
  • PerryMakesPerryMakes Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2011
    if you feel over moderated post elswhere
    I share the sentiments of many others that have posted here - Brickset is a unique place that provides a unique experience for the right price. All this is a result of a big ol' non-linear process largely driven by the user-base. With no users, (let's say Huw + Admin + Mods, so 10ish or so people) this would be a very different place. Wouldn't you agree that when something bothers one of these users, they should be allowed to voice that concern so that others may either confirm the issue(s) or help the person understand why they are in the wrong. The operative word there is HELP.

    The way (some) people are responding has forced me to hold back from posting knee-jerk reactions, certainly assuring this thread a quick and disappointing death. Perhaps the reason for these accusatory remarks are related to a statement I made that was misconstrued as: the culture in the United States is one of freedom of speech and that in the UK is not. My first PM to @Si_Dorking_Surrey_UK basically asked her to point out where I made this comment. You've seen the results of that request. Now take this comment I just made (starting with 'Perhaps'). Would you call that an "assumption?" Earlier I was accused of making assumptions. Again, @marknam is making this claim without pointing out what the assumption was, but I can only assume ( 8^) that he's referring to other statements similar to this one, where I use the word perhaps ... I take a guess ... something that is most definitely possible, but for which the likelihood is not known. My understanding of assumptions are circumstances where the likelihood of something is 100%, but you make that statement without having actual knowledge of the true result, etc. Maybe pedantic, but such is the life of a math and science geek. And that was too bad, because I think he had one of the, if not THE, best post in this thread. If you had distill all posts down to a single statement, I think this is a strong candidate:
    I'm also a believer that when one decides to commit to a community (in this case this forum), one should be prepared to adopt the culture of the community, if one expects to be adopted BY the community too - it's a fair exchange and one that should be pretty harmonious if done right.
    So getting back to where I was going with that thought - judging by the number of times I see the word quid thrown around, I'll make the educated guess (also different from an assumption ;) that Brits make up a large constituent of the user population. We even learned that all but two members of the owner/admin/mods are from the UK. Leaving out the comment to cultural differences would most likely have eased up the beat-down I was taking for putting people on the defensive.
    Agreed, although I have a feeling this spat has nothing to do with LEGO or moderation anymore.

    I too am having trouble biting my tongue. It's pathetic. I'm not one to shy away from confrontation, but to continue such a petty argument in front of the entire Brickset community.....I'd feel embarassed. Please stop and continue elsewhere if you must.
    As I mentioned earlier, the internet is old hat for me. Forum after forum after forum, I've always see the conversation go private when it doesn't concern the entire group. I made the attempt. This person wasn't willing to "$h1t or get off the pot" as they say. And I was HIGHLY aggravated that they felt compelled to unnecessarily re-post their thoughts here. What were their reasons for this? Only they know.

    But do you think people will read your comment, asking the person who's thread it is to go somewhere else, and say the same thing to you - "If you don't like what you're reading, pick one of the other hundreds of threads." Most likely not. For reasons only they know.
    It was interesting to read about some of the reasons "redacting" (had to look it up!) was taking place but now this thread is just getting silly!
    The good thing about threads getting silly is with a little snip, snip here and a remove, redact, lock there - we can be back in action before you can say acrylonitrile butadiene styrene with some dyes on top!

    So is this a big enough deal to me that I'd leave Brickset? Not even close. Did I make any new friends in the last day and a half here? Probably not. Do I feel better for getting this off my chest? Absolutely. If the thread were closed right now, not only would I be happy with what it accomplished, but knowing that Huw feels the same way makes up for the few of you out there that posted nasties after being offended by reading into a couple of statements or just plain disagreeing with my observations.

    The important thing is, we all get to play with LEGO today! And that makes it worth the trouble.
  • PerryMakesPerryMakes Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2011
    Obviously there are certain members on this forum that take themselves WAYYY too seriously and really need to take a look in the mirror, take a deep breath, and count to 10, before posting....
    Guilty, as charged. One other observation - obviously there are certain members on this forum that are not at least 16 years old. The conversation doesn't need to get very complex before lack of maturity rears it's ugly head. Being that we all (should be) AFOLs here, we all possess a maturity gap - one that I propose falls under the "good maturity gap" category (like probiotics and 'good' cholesterol).

    disclaimer: I'm not referring to you being under 16, @madforlegos...

    @Yellowcastle - thanks for returning the title, although I was starting to like the changed version - and to a certain extent, it more accurately reflects what's been talked about. Censorship is an entirely different beast.
  • PerryMakesPerryMakes Member Posts: 73
    edited September 2011
    (posted that comment without finishing the thought - then missed the 5 minute edit window!)
    Ok, this is a warning that this discussion must stay on topic or risks being closed. We value feedback and welcome criticism, but portions of the discussion have devolved and I have no qualms about taking action...
    Fair enough.

    and I'm American.
    Yep - @Yellowcastle let us know what you and he are the only two on this side of the pond. The disproportionate news release coverage made a whole lot more sense when I learned that. It also make use of that "get in touch" feature very important for those of us on this side. (I'm sure someone will be offended or simply be looking for an opportunity to prove me wrong, so ... go for it ... count the news releases by country and then berate me :p )

    p.s. Like most others, my imagination can drift from time to time ... I played out this scenario in my head where on the admin/mod board (which I assume you have) you guys were placing wagers for how long it would take for me to ask that the title be returned :) :) For that reason, I had considered not saying anything... ever... but I made that request this morning before having my coffee, forgetting that I wasn't going to say anything... ever!

  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    The disproportionate news release coverage made a whole lot more sense when I learned that.
    Slightly off topic I know, but I had actually thought the news was more US based previously, always seems to be showing yet another great US based TRU deal I can't get!! :)
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    edited September 2011
    Brickset made a conscious effort to address the UK biased news issue around 18 months ago (approx.) by recruiting news reporters from around the world e.g. US, AU and NZ. Since then, the coverage has been a lot more evenly spread.

    Prior to that, you can understand the news coverage being predominantly UK-related given that the site is UK-based and owned.
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,548
    edited September 2011
    @PerryMakes
    This is getting out of hand. Please stop it with all these not-so-thinly veiled attacks against the UK. Is the rest of the world not allowed to play on the internet or something? :o)

    There is no cultural censorship going on here. The very idea is laughable.

    There is absolutely NOTHING on this site that has a predetermined pro-UK agenda, or an anti-US bias, or whatever notion it is that you're tying to suggest. Such insinuations are bordering xenophobic or something worse.

    Furthermore, if there is a higher degree of UK based info on here compared with the US-based sites you're more used to, what do you expect? Coming from a UK site maintained by people living in the UK, as much as we might want to tell you all about your Target exclusives, TRU discounts, Walmart bargains, New York Toy fairs, Expos, etc, we CAN'T because we don't LIVE there, and info about that stuff (or anywhere else in the world) will have to be reported in by someone else.
  • Jabba_the_TaffJabba_the_Taff Member Posts: 215

    Maybe there's something that I'm missing or simply misunderstand. Maybe it's a cultural thing - there is a little history between the US and the UK ... it sort of centers on this very topic. And although this is essentially an international community, I see regular signs of this site being born and bred from the UK.
    If you don't want this misconstrued, perhaps you could explain precisely what you are implying here?
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited September 2011
    ^^ I think many of us would be well-served to take a breath and calm down.

    I don't see anything materially wrong with the observation that the news coverage is indicative of having a stronger presence in one geography over another.

    That said, the original claim that Americans consider free speech an unalienable right whereas the same might not hold true elsewhere was incorrectly applied to the way this site is governed. As I stated previously, this is a private site and, from the outset, the code of conduct to which all members agree to adhere makes known that transgressions will risk moderator action, which includes editing, closing, removing content.
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,548
    No worries, i'm perfectly happy and calm... just finding it extremely tedious that lately there appears to be someone every few days starting a thread to say what at first appears a reasonable thing, which under examination reveals itself to be nothing other than a cover from which to launch some attack on Lego or the Brickset community.
    I'll be steering clear of these 'discussions' in future. It does nothing for my hobby.
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Hertfordshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 6,742
    edited September 2011
    OK, folks - I've largely stayed out of this discussion until now, although I have been reading with interest. It's a shame that a thread which started out as a potentially useful discussion about the style of moderation on the forum has degenerated into something altogether less savoury.

    Contrary to some of the views expressed, or at least implied, by some forum members, the moderation team fully support and want to encourage robust discussion on this forum - we're all adults, after all. Our view of acceptable free speech does not however extend to "trolling", harassing fellow forum users via the PM system or otherwise spoiling the enjoyment of other people on here.

    While we really don't want to have to go around banning people, the forum code of conduct requires forum users to treat each other with respect, and the moderation team won't tolerate behaviour which we believe contravenes this.

    So please folks, let's keep the discussions and behaviour civil so that the forum can continue to be a cool place to hang out. Thanks.
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    edited September 2011
    I have stayed out as well, but I must say I am glad it looks like its coming to a close so we can move on.

    Its not like this thread was offering me any additional insight in to any aspect of lego. In fact it just ended up rather boring.
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,326
    edited September 2011
    I have to say that I am somewhat dismayed that the OP is presumptuous enough to think that eliminating words/posts/threads is somehow a "UK thing". Where did that come from?

    Apparently the OP has not seen some of the new functionalities of Forums these days. As someone (from the American midwest) who posts almost daily on several midwestern urban forum... I have seen relatively new forum features that are now available on many forums (and often used). One feature is one I like to call "Troll-Be-Gone"... where the forum owner (who's too busy to babysit his forum 24 hours a day) simply taps a few keystrokes, and all traces of the offenders posts and threads have disappeared without a trace... including the ability of the offender from posting under any user ID from their IP address.

    Coincidentally this feature is especially nice for handling irksome newbies.

    I have seen many people disappear without a trace in this manner from several USA forums. So to come out and subtly imply that this is censorship or that this must be a "UK thing" belies the truth in this matter.

    Freedom of speech does not apply to forums, nor has it ever. Anyone with 100 posts and at least half a brain should already know that...
  • OrthobotrexOrthobotrex Member Posts: 165
    I just got to view the profile of the OP...I think he had an agenda (posted on his avatar), that's why his comments are what they are, IMO.
  • SparkyHamSparkyHam Bristol, UKMember Posts: 141
    In light of the original topic of moderation, and subsequent discussions, it got me wondering 'why' people sign-up to this forum in the first place, and how their personal reason/drive affects the quality of discussion here.

    I joined because: 1) I want to meet other AFOL and be part of an active and healthy online community; and 2) because I want to engage in lively discussion, which is what a forum is all about, right?

    Whilst both these reasons are equally valid, I've begun to realize that they potentially conflict, and that the 'order' in which each of us prioritizes our own reasons for being part of this forum DOES affect how we interact and play off each other, as demonstrated by some of the comments in this thread.

    I have a group of friends, who one of which likes to initiate and engage in heated political debate. His arguments are always well thought out & convincing, and I often find myself agreeing with him, such is his level of competency and persuasiveness. I've noticed, however, that he has become increasingly alienated from the group. It seems that as time goes by, people forget (or even care) about the issues and arguments that seemed so crucial at the time. All that remains are the feelings of hurt and resentment that were provoked during the discussions... what I call the 'bitter-after-taste'. It's that bitter after-taste that goes on to colour how the rest of the group interact (or not, as often is the case) with my friend.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is this: There is always going to be some conflict where one party values the discussion/debate/getting-to-the truth, more than his or her relationship (and dare I say it, obligation) to the rest of community. In the right setting, this is an extremely admirable and powerful trait, but in the context of a 'community forum', it's probably not. Accordingly, and even though some of our own (and my) responses have lacked sufficient grace, it's not surprising that this thread is so messy when the OP admitted very early on:
    ... But I'm not really looking for credibility here, I'm more concerned with learning how others feel about my observation
    So back to whole issue of moderation. I'm in favour, more than ever, of strong moderation in the same way I am in favour of having strong rules in a game of football (soccer). Remove the referee and linesmen, and it may be fun for short while, but leave it too long, and the game will eventually descend into chaos.

    Perhaps one of the answers to avoiding similar hostility doesn't lie so much with the moderators, but with each individual contemplating his/her motives for being part of this community and choosing not to succumb to the impulse of posting "knee-jerk" reactions, but rather choosing to consider those to which their comments are addressed to first?

  • OrthobotrexOrthobotrex Member Posts: 165
    We are a community with different beliefs and values with presumably a single devotion to a well-loved toy. But things always get out of hand when you disguise them as brick-themed topics and rub those beliefs onto others or keep on stoking the flames even when you see the fire growing wildly already. We should keep those beliefs to ourselves and not pour it out onto other people, especially here in this forum. I'm just amazed about how other people enjoy these kinds of things...

    Let's try to keep religion (or the lack thereof), politics, or our pet social issues out. These things polarize. Keep it on the brick...
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,326
    If mayhem is your cup of tea... go check out the Bricklink Forum today (9/11).... they're not having a good day...
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    because otherwise id have to wade through post that say thinks like "OMG this is like such an afmsfgs set im like in love with it this is like toattally Amaze. im like so gonna buy it like you know what i mean" and that despite the fact we have a long history of changing word meanings and shortening words makes me want to kill myself
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    i feel a plug is need to calm us all down @Istokg whats your book called and where can i get it :-D. this aint sarcasm i do want to know
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,326
    edited September 2011
    Did someone ask for a commercial break?? ;-)

    Since this thread is not a marketplace thread... I'll just show you what the new Version 2 LEGO CD looks like... which is actually a Version 1 (1949-80) and Version 2 (1980-90s) compilation... (over 2,000 pages, 1/4 million words, and 2,500 images) and will be ready in a few weeks (it's not my fault that people keep sending me rare images of stuff!!! ;-).... and here's what the CD top will look like when completed (it's amazing how much cheaper a CD can ship for, compared to a book... as little as $1.55 in USA/Canada or $2.55 rest of world)....
    http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=istokg&itemID=23123237

    So... do you think the CD cover will look OK?

    Gary Istok

    P.S. In the words of Patricia Rutledge (Hyacinth Bucket)... my 2nd favorite Brit after QE2... "it's so lower middle class to go into details."
  • dimefielddimefield Edmonton Alberta CanadaMember Posts: 314
    Im not that big of a collecter but i own 2 of the sets on the cover!
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    @ Marknam,

    'I'm in favour, more than ever, of strong moderation in the same way I am in favour of having strong rules in a game of football (soccer). Remove the referee and linesmen, and it may be fun for short while, but leave it too long, and the game will eventually descend into chaos'.

    well put across. I agree. Freedom of speech is very important, but there has to be a line drawn to prevent anarchy. This is still generally a great place to be, and it needs some element of control to stay that way. I have no problem respecting Lego's position on removing links to pics etc, especially if that creates a good relationship with the Company and gives Huw and the team the occasional piece of breaking news.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    I did ask and you delivered @Istokg and it was good. this work on UK pc's?

    I think moderating has worked well by complying with legos requests. Lego clearly see Brickset as a big player in lego's universe and worthy of being checked reguarly the websites with the info still up are clearly rubbish and lego dont bother with them. Also the fact that there will be a compeition with lego and @Huw has decribed it as awesome and something he wouldn't want to give up show lego value us and i suspect it was in part a reward for doing as they asked so effectivley
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    p.s i like the cd. and props for the keeeping up appreances refernce
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,326
    Brickset does get quite a lot of traffic from AFOLs... so the "big player" comment is correct. No reason to cause any difficulties between TLG and Brickset over an image or two...

    (CD works on all PCs and MACs....)
  • StuBoyStuBoy New ZealandMember Posts: 623
    ^^^ @Redbullgivesuwind What's this about a competition with Lego?
  • andheandhe UKMember Posts: 3,704
    @StuBoy, huw mentioned it on the frontpage news...
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    ^^@StuBoy here is the link to it http://www.brickset.com/news/article/?ID=1442. i personally want it to be a trolly dash around a lego store
  • StuBoyStuBoy New ZealandMember Posts: 623
    @Redbullgivesuwind Thanks for the link! I did see that article a few days ago but missed the last line that mentioned another competition. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
  • HuwHuw Brickset Towers, Hampshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 7,014
    Yep, the prize is incredibly cool and virtually impossible to get any other way. As I said in the article, so cool I don't want to give it away...

    If all goes to plan I will start the comp. Sunday or Monday.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    Huw, will Brickset staff be eligible to enter?
  • HuwHuw Brickset Towers, Hampshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 7,014
    edited September 2011
    Have't you checked the small print of competitions recently?

    Employees, helpers and their family are the only people eligible to enter.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,837
    ^ + ^^ Ahhh, nevermind! Being able to type in small print isn't without its drawbacks! :o)
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,052
    wait a miute @Huw the small print says one of the mods or admins will awlays win i call foul and say you must give it to me or ill tell everyone
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    edited September 2011
    Huw, will Brickset staff be eligible to enter?
    Didn't you read the small print Huw posted? :o)
  • HuwHuw Brickset Towers, Hampshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 7,014
    I think someone's edited my message!
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,837
    edited September 2011
    ^ Probably Yellowcastle or rocao! JOKE!

    Couldn't resist - remove if necessary! :o)
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    edited September 2011
    ^ Nope, It wasn't either of them. I wonder who it could have been...
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,245
    Like Akon, it wasn't me.
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