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Brickset Marketplace: Setting a Price vs Asking for Offers

124

Comments

  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,246
    I don't feel that how much the good cost the seller is needed in any market, only the value the good has in the market. Do you ask Walmart how much the jar of pickles cost them? Do they post it? Does LEGO publish how much each set costs them to produce and their margin on each? Maybe they do but if they did I would expect it to be discussed a lot more here so my guess is they don't.

    I don't know how much an ear of corn costs a farmer to grow but when I see $3 a dozen on one side of the road and $4 a dozen on the other I know which I go for. Unless of course the $4 a dozen is being sold by a cute farmer's daughter then its worth the $1 premium.
    YellowcastlePitfall69
  • collect_thatcollect_that Kidderminster, EnglandMember Posts: 1,327
    edited July 2013
    @incredulous

    Seriously dude, longtime lurker, and this discussion is how you choose to enter the forum???

    Now I'm not buying that!
  • incredulousincredulous Member Posts: 18
    edited July 2013
    Its up to you what you feel but this is the definition of a transparent market from wikipedia
    "In economics, a market is transparent if much is known by many about:
    What products, services or capital assets are available.
    What price.
    Where.
    There are two types of price transparency: 1) I know what price will be charged to me, and 2) I know what price will be charged to you."
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,246
    So based on that definition most markets are "type 1" transparency. Your earlier statement about cost to the seller "needing" to be provided for transparency is not proven by the wiki definition.
  • incredulousincredulous Member Posts: 18
    I'm going to wait to see if LegoFanTexas responds because I could be wrong and if so I'll just crawl back into my hole and not debate this further.
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,288
    edited July 2013
    ^ The marketplace here obviously isn't a perfect, open market, and I think LFT was trying to make a point more than he was suggesting it should be.... i think
    LegoFanTexas
  • EKSamEKSam Member Posts: 349

    I'm going to wait to see if LegoFanTexas responds because I could be wrong and if so I'll just crawl back into my hole and not debate this further.

    @incredulous
    Why are you seeking answers about an Amazon listing on the Brickset Forum? This topic is about setting price vs asking for offers on the Brickset Marketplace.

  • incredulousincredulous Member Posts: 18
    If he is indeed the Amazon seller (and I think he is because he didn't deny it) he is being hypocritical by stressing the importance of consumer protection yet pricing his own product in a way that would be highly disadvantageous for any customer who would actually buy it. It's true his listing is on Amazon and not here but his comments were about society overall and didn't read as if he was saying consumers should be protected here and not there. I also found his tone condescending and holier than thou but that's secondary.
  • sidersddsidersdd USAMember Posts: 2,432

    I also found his tone condescending and holier than thou but that's secondary.

    Surely you haven't been lurking for a substantial amount of time. The longtimers here learn to just tune it out. ;)
    Pitfall69
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    edited July 2013
    Let's clarify:

    I suggested guidelines, not rules. Not one single person has explained why guidelines would be anything but beneficial.

    As someone else stated, the volume of feedback clearly indicates that this forum includes a popular marketplace. It is also clear by the volume of posts on the applicable thread by the same people clearly show that they're reselling lego for a profit (which is perfectly acceptable in my opinion) and therefore they are running a business. To argue otherwise, is futile as I am sure their local tax authority would agree.

    The statement, "if it's not broken, don't fix it." is completely flawed. If we all thought like that, we would still be living in caves.

    We can all find exceptions or reasons to do or not do anything and everything. I expected sellers to object as they have something to lose, but it's the admins that really disappoint me as I would have hoped that they would have been keen to improve members' experiences. What harm will having guidelines do???
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 18,214
    A guideline wouldn't be beneficial since sellers that don't want to give a price would not need to. It may be detrimental if someone that didn't know the value of the item put a low price because they felt they had to, or didn't offer it for sale here because they thought they had to give a price.
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    edited July 2013
    CCC said:

    A guideline wouldn't be beneficial since sellers that don't want to give a price would not need to. It may be detrimental if someone that didn't know the value of the item put a low price because they felt they had to, or didn't offer it for sale here because they thought they had to give a price.

    Do you honestly believe what you have said is a sound reason not to have guidelines? Before you answer, this is a community forum for adult fans of Lego.

  • piratemania7piratemania7 New EnglandMember Posts: 2,097
    I'm pretty sure @CCC knows what type of forum this is...
    Yellowcastle
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,246

    If he is indeed the Amazon seller (and I think he is because he didn't deny it) he is being hypocritical by stressing the importance of consumer protection yet pricing his own product in a way that would be highly disadvantageous for any customer who would actually buy it. It's true his listing is on Amazon and not here but his comments were about society overall and didn't read as if he was saying consumers should be protected here and not there. I also found his tone condescending and holier than thou but that's secondary.

    No offense but it kind of feels like you are purposely trying to accuse LFT of something he hasn't done. I don't see anywhere in his posts where he mentions anything about sales with prices being a problem. The consumer protection link even only mentions fraud and misleading advertising. I don't see how listing a price no matter how exorbitant is disadvantageous. The person paying has to feel that the price they are paying is worth it otherwise they would not pay it.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    edited July 2013
    @augen I believe we have guidelines which include advice on how to stay safe etc.

    And no I'm not a major seller. I've had marketplace threads. Some have included prices some have not. I do sell WAY more than that but they never make the board because they are sold at cost to board friends. By far the best way to deal here. In my opinion of course.
    Yellowcastle
  • kempo81kempo81 Wiltshire, UKMember Posts: 961
    @augen

    GUIDELINES:

    http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/39/marketplace-guidelines#latest

    SAFETY AND ETIQUETTE:

    http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/6410/marketplace-safety-and-etiquette#latest

    They are there and have been for some time... I agree that those maybe a little thin on the ground given the volume of marketplace feedback but I think the point here is it wasn't expected that the marketplace would be what it is today. Brickset is a resource for LEGO fans of all ages and was never intended to be a marketplace (I'm not speaking on behalf of Huw, this is just my take on it). Heck there were huge reservations about even HAVING a forum in the first place! I fear if this subject is pushed too far we may end up disappointed with the outcome.

    SirKevbags
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    edited July 2013
    @augen - I'm not sure I see the value in creating new levels of bureaucracy to protect the buyers who are apparently not complaining against the thrift that is apparently not occurring.

    If a buyer wants to PM the OP with an offer, great! If a buyer wants to skip threads with no sell price, great! If a transaction is meant to be, then Tom and Meg will somehow find each other at the Empire State Building.

    Think of our Marketplace like you would the Classifieds section in the newspaper. Though we may clean it up a bit for clarity, write your listing anyway you want and the market will be the final arbiter.

    And I'm sorry that we, as a staff, have so far disappointed you. Though I take full responsibility, I honestly feel its @rocao's fault. ;o)
    kempo81BrickDancerSirKevbagsEKSamJosephLegoFanTexasPitfall69Legopants
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Now that that's settled, can we all just give @augen & @incredulous a big hug and their Brickset membership monkey for surviving their first thread?
    kempo81khmellymelEKSamLegoFanTexasCoolsplashleemcg
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317

    Now that that's settled, can we all just give @augen & @incredulous a big hug and their Brickset membership monkey for surviving their first thread?

    I hope you feel really proud of your comment. I am sure in your way that you thought that you were making a valid point and even being humorous, but actually you've just made yourself look foolish. Well done.

  • samiam391samiam391 A Log Cabin in KY, United StatesMember Posts: 4,284
    augen said:

    Now that that's settled, can we all just give @augen & @incredulous a big hug and their Brickset membership monkey for surviving their first thread?

    I hope you feel really proud of your comment. I am sure in your way that you thought that you were making a valid point and even being humorous, but actually you've just made yourself look foolish. Well done.

    @augen- It's a joke. Not a jab. It was a goofy comment from awhile back, that every Brickset member should get a monkey.

    And any Brickset conflict is always resolved by a hug :o)
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    @Yellowcastle I don't really see it as bureaucracy as that would suggest that it would require additional work for the sake of doing it and I don't see that helping people as work.

    I realise that you probably give up your free time to moderate this forum and topics like this are probaby just a PITA. You have your opinion as do others, but that doesn't make you or me, or anyone else right. It seems that there should be a better system in place to decide and not just rely on the most vociferous, whoever that might be.
  • samiam391samiam391 A Log Cabin in KY, United StatesMember Posts: 4,284
    @augen- I'm going to ask you a simple question, because you obviously won't put this issue to rest and let it go to peiace.

    How many transactions have you actually done on the Brickset forums?
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    wow @augen, you really aren't from around these parts are ya?

    Best of luck to you!
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    samiam391 said:

    augen said:

    Now that that's settled, can we all just give @augen & @incredulous a big hug and their Brickset membership monkey for surviving their first thread?

    I hope you feel really proud of your comment. I am sure in your way that you thought that you were making a valid point and even being humorous, but actually you've just made yourself look foolish. Well done.

    @augen- It's a joke. Not a jab. It was a goofy comment from awhile back, that every Brickset member should get a monkey.

    And any Brickset conflict is always resolved by a hug :o)
    I somehow kind of doubt that by the wording, but I apologise if I am mistaken.

  • khmellymelkhmellymel United KingdomMember Posts: 1,234
    I thought the general consensus that while some people may like it/may not like it, no one really thinks it's a big enough problem to warrant a guideline though? (at least they are in the minority). Although I don't buy from no-price threads, I actually don't like the thought of implementing a guideline. Because it wouldn't be enforced, I could see it as "tagging" a thread or seller as a troublemaker or even unscrupulous, whereas I think that is not the general vibe of the forum. It doesn't lend to a community feel.

    And no, I don't sell LEGO here. And aside from a few HP minifigures on eBay, I've never sold, either.
    Joseph
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    samiam391 said:

    @augen- I'm going to ask you a simple question, because you obviously won't put this issue to rest and let it go to peiace.

    How many transactions have you actually done on the Brickset forums?

    None, but why is that important? I have actually been put off buying on here as I find the practice of not stating prices causes me to distrust the seller, which led to my original post as I genuinely believed that it was mainly done out of ignorance.

    I have bought over 1000 sets on eBay and others on Bricklink and Eurobricks, if that's any qualification. I have been using eBay since the 90s and I would say that although 90% of my transactions have been nothing but positive, there's always the odd one that ruins it and if guidelines or even rules prevent that, then I support them.

    We keep coming around to the same point. Why is it a bad thing to ask sellers to state prices? All I hear is excuses as to why it's not necessary.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited July 2013
    ^Freedom of choice.
  • EKSamEKSam Member Posts: 349
    ^ @augen Actually @BrickDancer was welcoming you not making fun of you, the monkey reference is from a members only thread. It quickly went off tangent and everybody ended up either getting a monkey or wanting one. :-))
  • pillpodpillpod Member Posts: 273
    @augen: It's not a bad thing to ask sellers to state prices; it's also not bad thing for sellers not to list prices.

    It's soooo easy to ignore a thread after seeing that there are no prices listed. Almost too easy.
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    EKSam said:

    ^ @augen Actually @BrickDancer was welcoming you not making fun of you, the monkey reference is from a members only thread. It quickly went off tangent and everybody ended up either getting a monkey or wanting one. :-))

    Thank you @EKSam, but there was jibe there as it mentioned first thread. If @BrickDancer had just intended to welcome me, he/she would not have mentioned that. As I said, if I'm wrong, I'm happy to apologise to @BrickDancer.
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    pillpod said:

    @augen: It's not a bad thing to ask sellers to state prices; it's also not bad thing for sellers not to list prices.

    It's soooo easy to ignore a thread after seeing that there are no prices listed. Almost too easy.

    I know, and that's what I've done to date. I just don't think that it's a big issue to have guidelines that may help people either, but evidently it is...
  • pillpodpillpod Member Posts: 273
    Ok. So if the guidelines get changed and say you have to list a price...and I decide not to, what should happen to me?
  • khmellymelkhmellymel United KingdomMember Posts: 1,234
    edited July 2013
    ^ That's what I'm saying... if it's a rule, then so be it, because you can be "reprimanded", or you would just adhere to the rule. If it's a guideline, then nothing is done, and you just look like a jerk... which is (usually!) further from the truth, at least on this forum.

    *shrug* At least that's how I see it.
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    pillpod said:

    Ok. So if the guidelines get changed and say you have to list a price...and I decide not to, what should happen to me?

    The whole point is that they're guidelines and therefore a suggested practice, not a mandatory practice. The whole point is to encourage good practice, not enforce it. A simple sticky at the top of the category would just serve to help those that are less experienced in selling and as is apparent by a lot of responses, won't be ignored.

    I suspect that I've touched on a subject that is touchy, rightly or wrongly with some people, and my original post has been hijacked to argue old points. I honestly don't see how having guidelines could be construed as rules, bureaucracy or anything else that's negative.


  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,548
    edited July 2013
    (changed my mind).

    (Mentioned a joke , decided best not... might offend and all that nonsense...)
  • JosephJoseph Member Posts: 651
    edited July 2013
    augen said:

    The whole point is that they're guidelines and therefore a suggested practice, not a mandatory practice. The whole point is to encourage good practice, not enforce it. A simple sticky at the top of the category would just serve to help those that are less experienced in selling and as is apparent by a lot of responses, won't be ignored.

    I suspect that I've touched on a subject that is touchy, rightly or wrongly with some people, and my original post has been hijacked to argue old points. I honestly don't see how having guidelines could be construed as rules, bureaucracy or anything else that's negative.

    I imagine part of the confusion (at least for me) was you seemed to be arguing that these guidelines should be established to stop these "big sellers" that are currently not listing prices (which a guideline would be ineffective at doing). Helping to prevent new members from not listing them is a bit different.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401
    edited July 2013
    @augen - A couple of points.

    You say that the loudest, most vociferous opinions should not dictate direction, yet, by my count, you've posted 20 times so far in this thread to my 11.

    You asked for staff involvement yet apparently meant staff other than me and @rocao.

    You argue that buyers are being disadvantaged yet present no aggrieved buyers.

    You indicate that we are catering to sellers yet most of us in opposition rarely if ever sell.

    You claim the market needs fixing yet have never bought or sold here.

    You claim we have presented no reasons against making a change yet haven't explained why the onus is on us in the first place.

    I thank you for creating an interesting, lively discussion. I'm sorry you haven't found the support you were seeking. Outside of implementing your non-rule, non-enforced, non-bureaucratic non-legislation, I'm not sure how to please you.
    Josephsamiam391ColoradoBricksEKSamkempo81LegopantsBumblepantscollect_thatweevin
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    EKSam said:

    ^ @augen Actually @BrickDancer was welcoming you not making fun of you, the monkey reference is from a members only thread. It quickly went off tangent and everybody ended up either getting a monkey or wanting one. :-))

    Hey... wait a minute... I didn't get a monkey!!! Come on guys (and gals), I want my monkey!!! :)

    *big hug to everyone*
    BrickDancer
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    @Yellowcastle Tom & Meg? a 20 year old movie reference? Really? ;)
    YellowcastlePitfall69
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    ^ The marketplace here obviously isn't a perfect, open market, and I think LFT was trying to make a point more than he was suggesting it should be.... i think

    Yes, sometimes my posts tangent off into more general topics, at least until the friendly Brickset Monkey's set me straight. :)

    As pointed out by @pvancil27 - It isn't so simple as to be black and white, since private transactions as would be done in the local newspaper classifies clearly don't need the same regulations Amazon does. Brickset indeed is closer to the newspaper than it is to Amazon.

    I get going on a thought and tend to take it to the extreme sometimes. :)
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Member Posts: 4,401

    I get going on a thought and tend to take it to the extreme sometimes. :)

    We have an honorary wing in the Recycle Bin just for LegoTangenTexas. :o)

    sidersddLegoFanTexas
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    We have an honorary wing in the Recycle Bin just for LegoTangenTexas. :o)

    Shucks, I'm honored!

    Now, about that Brickset Monkey...
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    edited July 2013
    Funny that my first forum argument was with @LegoFanTexas ;)

    @augen stated that he has bought somewhere around 2000 sets on Bricklink and Ebay. Most of the time you don't even know your total plus shipping until you get your invoice. Also, unless all of his purchases on EBay were from Buy it Now listings, he wouldn't know what the price of the item was until he won the auction. It goes against what he was saying about knowing what the price is before you buy. This is relevant because one time I saw an incredible deal Oj Bricklink and quickly purchased the Lego set just to get an invoice that had the shipping be 1/2 of what the item cost, so I had to back out of the deal.
  • jadedancjadedanc USAMember Posts: 1,303
    Don't worry LFT, I didn't get my monkey yet either :( lol
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    If he didn't get a monkey; what is that thing on his back ;)
  • EKSamEKSam Member Posts: 349
    edited July 2013
    @Pitfall69 in the spirit of Brickset Forum generosity I took the monkey off my back and plunked it on @LegoFanTexas's back. He did not suspect anything. :-)).
    Pitfall69LegoFanTexas
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,401
    edited July 2013
    My God, I just read my other post and I typed OJ instead of and. I guess any Lego deal with OJ is bound to end badly ;)
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    image
    BrickDancer
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,288
    edited July 2013
    Since we're now on to jokes, I found this one of the funnier things in this thread.

    LegoFanTexas to LostInTranslation:

    Anyway, that is my opinion. No doubt many of you will tell me why I'm wrong.

    You're not wrong... you stated your opinion, that can never be wrong, unless you're arguing with yourself. ;)

    Nothing wrong with various points of view, it should stay friendly here.

    LegoFanTexas to samiam391:
    samiam391 said:

    I would make the opposite claim that it does not. We both have our own opinion, which is fine :o)

    It is perfectly fine for everyone to have their own opinion, however at the end of the day, the fact is someone is right and someone is wrong.

    LostInTranslationsidersddYellowcastlesamiam391streekery2josh
  • augenaugen Worcester, UKMember Posts: 317
    @Yellowcastle - Rather than try to pick fault with my responses, why don't you just answer my original question.

    Why is it better not to have guidelines for posting on the selling forum than to have them?

    Please don't mention bureaucracy again as writing a one-off, simple guide doesn't not constitute bureaucracy.
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