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Predictions on Discontinuing Sets and their Secondary Market Value

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Comments

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ All fair points... to anyone who plays online, I'll grant you that XBox Live is probably better based on what everyone says (I have no idea, not having used it).

    But we don't play online, in fact I keep my consoles locked down because they are really for the kids.

    So while that point makes a difference to some, it does not to others.

    Besides, the real reason we bought PS3 systems in the first place was for the Blu-Ray player. Granted, today you can buy good Blu-Ray players for $100, but at the time you could not. We've had ours now for a long time, one of them is the 60GB launch version (with PS2 backwards compatibility), the other is one revision newer that lacks that. Of course I've replaced both hard drives since with 500GB drives, those are now cheap as dirt, that is another plus the PS3 has, cheap hard drive upgrades, the XBox costs an arm and a leg. :)

    They each have their strong points, for us, online means little, Blu-Ray means a lot, and large hard drives to store all the kid's stuff helps.
  • BoiseStateBoiseState Member Posts: 804
    I own all 3 of the major game systems.. My XBOX just collects dust. The graphics are cleaner on the PS3, and my kids love the Wii(I think kinect is better, but kids are kids).
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    @dougout

    Do you mean to tell me that you buy a few of something and quickly flip them for a profit? That's unbelievable and quite deplorable behavior I might add...lol ;)
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    ^Eh. From my point of view, the problem with the PS3 is that, seven years later, it's only JUST about to come out with its second exclusive worth owning. That, and Jack Tretton's arrogance isn't doing Sony any favors.

    To be fair, though, I'm not particularly thrilled about Sony OR Microsoft's next-gen prospects. I suppose we'll see how E3 goes.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I own all 3 of the major game systems.. My XBOX just collects dust. The graphics are cleaner on the PS3, and my kids love the Wii(I think kinect is better, but kids are kids).

    I've never actually seen an XBox 360 in person, other than in the box. :)

    I almost broke down and purchased the Star Wars edition of it, the one that looks like R2-D2, just because it looks so cool, but then thought better of it, that is rather dumb. :)

    We own a Wii, have since nearly launch (was hard to find back then). We played it for years, but frankly it hasn't been on for about 2 years now, other than to transfer the old Miis when we purchased the Wii U this Christmas.

    Have to say, having played with the Wii U, I think it is Nintendo's last home console, they are going to be pushed out simply because they are no longer competing with Sony/Microsoft, but with Apple/Google for casual gamers.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    y2josh said:

    To be fair, though, I'm not particularly thrilled about Sony OR Microsoft's next-gen prospects. I suppose we'll see how E3 goes.

    Frankly, the best part about both next-gen consoles has nothing to do with actually owning them.

    PC games have been held back for years now because of the "frozen in time" aspect of 360/PS3. Both machines have 512 MB of memory (really 256MB usable), and they both pre-date unified stream processers on graphics cards (the nVidia 8800GT being the card that replaced what both machines were based on (the 7xxx series).

    In short, while resolutions and textures on the PC have been higher for awhile, the overall world detail has been limited by those machines.

    3 things have me super excited about the new machines:

    1. Both have 8 cores. This will FINALLY get game developers to figure out how to program for many core CPUs.

    2. Both have 8GB of unified memory. This will FINALLY get game developers to move to 64-bit programming and actually use the memory in our PCs.

    3. Both are AMD x64 CPUs. This will make porting games between PC and the consoles amazingly easy. This will save many development dollars and allow those dollars to be spent on the actual games, rather than fighting the system's differences.

    These 3 things are actually huge, very nice for everyone, even if you never buy either of them and only play on the PC.

    ---------------------------

    BTW, if you want an idea of how far out of date the PS3/360 really are... the iPad 4's graphics processor is actually more powerful than the one in the PS3.
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    Have to say, having played with the Wii U, I think it is Nintendo's last home console, they are going to be pushed out simply because they are no longer competing with Sony/Microsoft, but with Apple/Google for casual gamers.

    I'll disagree there. Their first party titles alone will likely carry them through two or three more generations... unless, of course, the death of consoles in general really is on the horizon. I think there are still way too many people with a pretty strong aversion to PC gaming for that to be the case, though.
  • legofanfromleedslegofanfromleeds legoland...England Member Posts: 382
    Enough enough I'm getting bored now..... put the consoles away and let's play lego again
    FollowsClosely
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    ^Done and done.

    Side question based on your user name... Were you aware that the second best live album of all time was recorded at Leeds?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I'll grant you that Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are powerhouse franchises, and they can carry a lot...

    However...

    Sales have nearly stopped... How bad? In January Nintendo sold 57,000 units in the US, January 2007 (same 3 months post launch) for Wii? 435,000 units.

    In April, Wii U sold just 40,000 units. In April 2007, Wii sold 360,000 units. Wii U is selling 11 consoles for every 100 Wii consoles sold at the same point post-launch.

    That is really bad... terribly bad... atrociously bad... and all the spin in the world doesn't change the fact that sales for the Wii U over the past 4 months are down almost 90% from the same 4 month post-launch period of Wii.

    ---------------

    To provide a comparison:

    At launch in Nov 2005, XBox 360 sold 326,000 consoles, by April 2006, they sold 295,000 consoles, a drop of just 9.5%. Compare that to the 89% drop in sales Wii U is suffering.

    I'm a Nintendo fan, I own a Wii U, LEGO City Undercover is a lot of fun. But so far this system is a disaster from a business point of view. EA had a number of launch titles, but they have already publicly pulled the plug and publicly stated they have nothing further in the works for Wii U.

    Will Nintendo survive on Mario and Zelda? Sure, for awhile... But is it enough to stay in the hardware business making only 1st party games?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Enough enough I'm getting bored now..... put the consoles away and let's play lego again

    Well, LEGO City Undercover is on Wii U, does that count? :)

    In fairness, there isn't much to talk about this topic right now, what predictions on retired sets would you like to talk about?

    And please don't say Death Star or Fire Brigade! :)
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 950

    In fairness, there isn't much to talk about this topic right now, what predictions on retired sets would you like to talk about?

    And please don't say Death Star or Fire Brigade! :)

    Here's one - SSD. It's been out what, nearly two years now? If it's not a particularly good seller, as you tend to read about, then you'd imagine it doesn't have a whole amount of shelf life left.

    I wasn't very interested in it when it came out, but lately I've been thinking about taking the plunge. I'm not sure what's changed; my subconcscious must have been telling me I've been too sensible lately with not a whole lot on my wishlist!
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    SSD may well retire at the end of this year... It will be 2 years this fall (wow, has it been that long?).

    I have a stack of them on the shelf, I look at them almost every day. Sadly, I feel no real motivation to build one. Personally I think it is 1-2 feet short, it is lacking in bottom half detail, it doesn't seem "epic" enough.

    I have 10030 UCS ISD on display, and it is much taller and thicker than SSD is. I suspect that if I put them together, somehow SSD will seem... not so Super...

    Of course, now that I say that, I probably have to build one so I can put them together and post pictures. :)

    Sigh, it is all your fault you know! :)
    Steve_J_OM
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    BTW, did anyone else notice that B-Wing does not seem to have gone away after the big 50% off sale?

    Is that really here to stay another 18 months?
  • BillybrownBillybrown UKMember Posts: 748
    CCC said:

    Would someone really pay $250 for VC? There's no way I would. Although bear in mind I MOC rather than collect sets.

    BTW, did anyone else notice that B-Wing does not seem to have gone away after the big 50% off sale?

    Is that really here to stay another 18 months?

    Maybe they decided to get rid of half stock at 50% then hope to sell the other 50% allocation at RRP and let that dwindle down until EOL Christmas time?

    I still havnt received my 2 x B-wings from Toys R US yet, I usually receive by now to the UK.

  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    Your probably not getting your B-Wings, everyone I know in Australia who ordered one from TRU has now got a refund, there was a bit if a communication issue between TRU and I-Parcel, so you have to chase your order up to get anywhere.

    Typical TRU I suppose.
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 950

    I have 10030 UCS ISD on display, and it is much taller and thicker than SSD is. I suspect that if I put them together, somehow SSD will seem... not so Super...

    Of course, now that I say that, I probably have to build one so I can put them together and post pictures. :)

    Sigh, it is all your fault you know! :)

    In that case, let me make it up to you by saving you the trouble :)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperiumdersteine/6134227680/
  • BillybrownBillybrown UKMember Posts: 748
    Basta said:

    Your probably not getting your B-Wings, everyone I know in Australia who ordered one from TRU has now got a refund, there was a bit if a communication issue between TRU and I-Parcel, so you have to chase your order up to get anywhere.

    Typical TRU I suppose.

    Communicating with TRU.com is a nightmare, not heard back from them via email and they dont seem to have a customer service number for those in the EU. I even asked TRU.co.uk about contact numbers for them and they didnt have a clue, it was as if I had sworn at them.

    I have ordered in the past from .com and its got to the UK in 2 weeks. Anyway I'll stop ranting now to avoid the thread going in the wrong direction!

  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    BTW, did anyone else notice that B-Wing does not seem to have gone away after the big 50% off sale?

    Is that really here to stay another 18 months?

    Only if current stock lasts for 18 more months (which it may if it's really so poor a seller that they cut it to 50% half a year after it came out).
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    @Billybrown you need to contact I-Parcel. When you buy from TRU as an international customer you are actually buying the item from I-Parcel and not TRU. TRU has next to no info about your order.

    They handle all customer service issues. Email is [email protected]
  • ISDAvengerISDAvenger Member Posts: 205
    Question regarding the 10188 DS, last November it was on sale for $339.99 on Amazon which for some is a good deal ie. free shipping and no tax. With the release of the Ewok Village, and the "potential" for the DS to be discontinued; what do you think the chances are for Amazon to drop the DS to that same price here in the near future? On a side note, would $750.00 shipped be considered a fair deal for two NIB DS's?
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    I'll grant you that Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon are powerhouse franchises, and they can carry a lot...

    However...

    Sales have nearly stopped... How bad? In January Nintendo sold 57,000 units in the US, January 2007 (same 3 months post launch) for Wii? 435,000 units.

    In April, Wii U sold just 40,000 units. In April 2007, Wii sold 360,000 units. Wii U is selling 11 consoles for every 100 Wii consoles sold at the same point post-launch.

    That is really bad... terribly bad... atrociously bad... and all the spin in the world doesn't change the fact that sales for the Wii U over the past 4 months are down almost 90% from the same 4 month post-launch period of Wii.

    ---------------

    To provide a comparison:

    At launch in Nov 2005, XBox 360 sold 326,000 consoles, by April 2006, they sold 295,000 consoles, a drop of just 9.5%. Compare that to the 89% drop in sales Wii U is suffering.

    I'm a Nintendo fan, I own a Wii U, LEGO City Undercover is a lot of fun. But so far this system is a disaster from a business point of view. EA had a number of launch titles, but they have already publicly pulled the plug and publicly stated they have nothing further in the works for Wii U.

    Will Nintendo survive on Mario and Zelda? Sure, for awhile... But is it enough to stay in the hardware business making only 1st party games?

    Not to get BACK off track, but you can't (or shouldn't) really compare against the Wii if you're only going to use percentage of growth as your measuring stick for 'successful.' And I'm not saying the Wii U is successful... only that it's in-line with the other fairly bad system that Nintendo weathered - GameCube.

    Additionally, you're using year-over-year for your 360 model (apples to apples) but post-launch versus post-launch on two different consoles (apples to oranges) for your Wii U evidence. The PS3, for example, is sitting at just above 40% versus the PS2 at the end of its lifespan. The 360 is at something like 350% versus the original Xbox. But at the end of the day, these kinds of numbers aren't really that useful.

    That said, here's a couple things to keep in mind with Nintendo: With the possible exception of the GameCube, which I have no production information for, they have NEVER sold a console at a loss. Where Sony and Microsoft typically undercut production prices until they balance out three or four years into a console's life, Nintendo is making money on their console sales from day one (due largely to how 'inferior' their tech is) and the profit-per-console obviously grows from there as production costs are slashed.

    Along those lines, they have plenty of money from the wild success of the Wii to suffer through a Wii U failure (and I would definitely call it a failure from a sales perspective). The Wii U isn't going to sully the brand so badly that they can't learn from this misstep and bring out a more traditional console that doesn't require developers to make games for a system so disparate from the rest of the pack. Whether they will or not obviously remains to be seen, but five years of pretty terrible GameCube sales didn't kill them, so a similar prospect for the Wii U really shouldn't be able to either... though I say again, E3 NEEDS to be a 'knock it out of the park' show for all three, or the eighth generation is going to have a really rocky start (moreso than typical).

    As to LEGO, I thought LEGO City Undercover was pretty bad, but the LEGO games have been very hit-and-miss ever since the first LEGO Batman game, which was the first LEGO game that I felt was truly awful. Indy 2, Star Wars III, both Harry Potters and Batman 2 all followed suit. Hopefully the Marvel game is amazing. Current screenshots certainly make it seem like it ought to be.
    Dougout
  • tamamahmtamamahm Member Posts: 1,962
    I can state I have at least three kids that thought the LEGO HP games were amazing, so awful is quite relative.
    I also played the first one through on my iPad, and did enjoy it for what it was.
    Dougout
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    To be fair (and I do see that I clumped them all together there), none of them were quite as bad as Indy 2 and Batman 2, but I stand by my assertion that I didn't really enjoy any of the listed titles. The first HP is probably the best of those listed, but I thought in trying to incorporate 400 different types of magic and special abilities, they really made an unnecessarily muddled mess of the interface.

    You also bring up a good point in that I'm coming at this from the perspective of an adult playing games that are more or less for children, so there's certainly merit to the relativity of awful, too. :D
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    Question regarding the 10188 DS, last November it was on sale for $339.99 on Amazon which for some is a good deal ie. free shipping and no tax. With the release of the Ewok Village, and the "potential" for the DS to be discontinued; what do you think the chances are for Amazon to drop the DS to that same price here in the near future? On a side note, would $750.00 shipped be considered a fair deal for two NIB DS's?

    I think a DS price drop is less likely the closer we get to retirement, but I obviously have no idea where we are on that scale. I will say that we're close enough in my estimation that, if WalMart put them on sale for $279 again... I'd buy a few to stash away (I picked up a total of zero last year because I felt I'd need to hold them for too long).
    wilbur
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I have 10030 UCS ISD on display, and it is much taller and thicker than SSD is. I suspect that if I put them together, somehow SSD will seem... not so Super...

    Of course, now that I say that, I probably have to build one so I can put them together and post pictures. :)

    Sigh, it is all your fault you know! :)

    In that case, let me make it up to you by saving you the trouble :)

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperiumdersteine/6134227680/
    Ahh, thanks... figured someone must have done that... shame they didn't take a dozen pictures...

    That picture just proves my point, at least to me... The Super isn't so super, it needed to be a foot longer, or perhaps 2 feet longer, to give it enough height and width to be interesting, and it needed bottom detail.

    For the largest ship in the movies, it should have been Ultimate! Instead we got average... :(
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    y2josh said:

    Not to get BACK off track, but you can't (or shouldn't) really compare against the Wii if you're only going to use percentage of growth as your measuring stick for 'successful.' And I'm not saying the Wii U is successful... only that it's in-line with the other fairly bad system that Nintendo weathered - GameCube.

    Why not? It seems perfectly reasonable to compare the sales of the Wii U to the Wii, as well as the other prior consoles.

    GameCube wasn't a disaster like Wii U has been, it was bad, it was ignored, it was the red-headed step-child, but it had a few things going for it...

    1. It actually was more powerful than the PS2, so in terms of that generations consoles, it was right up there. Wii U is better than PS3, but not by much and it will be blown away by PS4.

    2. It came out during a very different time. The Internet wasn't everywhere, you didn't download anything to your console, mobile gaming was very different (and Nintendo owned that market, they no longer do, Apple/Google own that market now).
    y2josh said:

    Additionally, you're using year-over-year for your 360 model (apples to apples) but post-launch versus post-launch on two different consoles (apples to oranges) for your Wii U evidence.

    I used 360 numbers from April 2006, 260 launched Nov 2005. I used Wii numbers from April 2007, Wii launched Nov 2006. So the time period matches. I also used numbers from April 2013 for Wii U, which launched Nov 2012.

    So the numbers all line up for post launch times, Christmas season, etc.
    y2josh said:

    The PS3, for example, is sitting at just above 40% versus the PS2 at the end of its lifespan. The 360 is at something like 350% versus the original Xbox. But at the end of the day, these kinds of numbers aren't really that useful.

    The PS3 didn't outsell the PS2 for awhile, however it didn't drop 89% in sales 6 months after launch either. The PS2 was just selling like crazy and remains the best selling video game console in history, by a comfortable margin.
    y2josh said:

    That said, here's a couple things to keep in mind with Nintendo: With the possible exception of the GameCube, which I have no production information for, they have NEVER sold a console at a loss.

    This isn't true, Nintendo has admitted that Wii U is the first console they have sold at a loss. It costs Nintendo more money to make a Wii U than they earn selling it. That is indeed new and it is why they haven't done a price drop. They need to however, get it down to $199/$249 and it will at least pickup in sales a bit.
    y2josh said:

    Along those lines, they have plenty of money from the wild success of the Wii to suffer through a Wii U failure (and I would definitely call it a failure from a sales perspective). The Wii U isn't going to sully the brand so badly that they can't learn from this misstep and bring out a more traditional console that doesn't require developers to make games for a system so disparate from the rest of the pack.

    It isn't a money issue. Nintendo has $14 billion in cash in the bank and no debt, they are on solid financial footing.

    It is a customer perception issue, they are running the risk of being branded out of date by consumers who may never give them another look. This is not 2001, the world has changed and Nintendo hasn't changed with it.

    They have survived worse, they can survive, this, but they probably need new management to do it. Fire the current leadership and move people up with fresh ideas and move on.

    ----------------

    BTW, during the NES/SNES/N64 days, Nintendo developed a reputation for being very hard to work with from 3rd party developers. In those days, Nintendo's 1st party titles were enough to make the system popular enough that companies like EA had no choice but to develop for them.

    During the Genesis/SNES era, almost all popular games came out for both systems, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Madden, etc.

    It was during N64 that Nintendo lost their way, staying with cartridges when PlayStation and Saturn went to CDs meant that games developed for those consoles couldn't easily be put on N64. Momentum and fans kept N64 alive, but if you want to see hubris, just look at the launch of N64 in the US, only 2 games were available at launch, today that would be laughed at.

    Then GameCube had the funny small DVDs that didn't hold enough data to just port games between PS2 and GC, and it didn't play DVDs like PS2 did. Stupid.

    Would someone explain to me why a $350 game console in 2013 that has a Blu-Ray drive in it... doesn't play Blu-Ray movies? Wii U has the mechanics of a Blu-Ray drive, without the licencing to play the movies.
    y2josh said:

    Whether they will or not obviously remains to be seen, but five years of pretty terrible GameCube sales didn't kill them, so a similar prospect for the Wii U really shouldn't be able to either... though I say again, E3 NEEDS to be a 'knock it out of the park' show for all three, or the eighth generation is going to have a really rocky start (moreso than typical).

    Two things:

    1. GC didn't have to compete with everything else out in 2013 that wasn't out in 2001. Yes, I know that iPads and Android tablets aren't consoles for TVs, however they are competing for the same casual gamer than Nintendo is now competing for.

    2. Nintendo has already announced that they won't have a "big E3 presense". Translation... they don't have Mario and Zelda far enough along... If XBox One and PS4 launch with 10+ AAA titles and Nintendo still doesn't have a new Mario and Zelda out, that will be very bad.
    y2josh said:

    As to LEGO, I thought LEGO City Undercover was pretty bad, but the LEGO games have been very hit-and-miss ever since the first LEGO Batman game, which was the first LEGO game that I felt was truly awful. Indy 2, Star Wars III, both Harry Potters and Batman 2 all followed suit. Hopefully the Marvel game is amazing. Current screenshots certainly make it seem like it ought to be.

    Star Wars The Complete Saga remains the peak of awsume for LEGO games for me. I didn't care for Star Wars III either, but my son loves it, so what do I know? :) He also loves LEGO City Undercover, it was made for him, not me, so that is fine.

    I bought a Wii U for that, and I bought Wii for Wii Sports, we have a few other games for both consoles, but it is quite possible that I'll never buy another game, other than perhaps the new Mario, for the Wii U.

    Frankly, my son spends about as much time playing on his iPad as he does playing all his consoles combined (PS3/Wii U/3DS).

    That, more than anything else, should make all the game companies pay attention.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    edited June 2013
    ^-- It has gotten the attention of the console makers, that is why you see Angry Bird and Minecraft on consoles now.
    There are also rumors about the new XBox and not being able to sell the games and also needing to have an internet connection to play your games, but I think those are just rumors right now.

    ---
    I miss the Dreamcast. Great games and graphics (at least at the time) the problem was Sony's agreement with EA and that the console cost more to build than sell and they just could not keep up with MS and Sony.
    Mercifully I kept mine along with my family's original Pong machine, Atari 2600, Colecovision, NES and PS2. (and my current system, the XBox 360)

    But I have a simple solution for those who do not want to pay 650 dollars for a new console. Be patient. They almost always drop in price after release, you may have to wait for a year, but really I do not understand why people MUST buy something like this at its initial release, you are 12 and have no concept of patience and thinking ahead, they are handling out gold bars with the first 500 sold, or you are happen to find one if they are impossibly hard to find and are going to sell for twice the retail price on eBay.

    Back to topic:
    Aside from DS and FB, What are the thoughts of GE retiring at the end of this year as well? I have seen the rumors, but if GE goes too, I think GE will actually go for more than FB
    Dougout
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    There are also rumors about the new XBox and not being able to sell the games and also needing to have an internet connection to play your games, but I think those are just rumors right now.

    You will be able to sell used games on Xbox One, but Microsoft wants a cut now, so there will be an "activation fee". If you buy from Gamestop, Gamestop will pay it and bake it into the price, if you sell yourself on eBay or Amazon, then the new buyer will have to pay it.

    It won't be always-on, but it will have to be on to activate new games. The disks are used for install only, everything goes to the hard drive and locked to your account, so you shouldn't need the disks to play, which is nice for those of us with kids.

    I miss the Dreamcast. Great games and graphics (at least at the time) the problem was Sony's agreement with EA and that the console cost more to build than sell and they just could not keep up with MS and Sony.

    Yes, it was great for games, but they were a year early and didn't include a DVD drive like PS2 did, that was a mistake.

    It was also too early in that it killed off Saturn before its time. Sega had just about pissed off everyone in the business, between 32X, Sega CD, then Saturn. Too many consoles, too fast, developers lost interest, fans got tired of buying hardware for just a few games.

    Dreamcast lasted 2 years before being killed, and that was that. Had they waited another year, put a DVD drive in, it might have had a better chance.

    But I have a simple solution for those who do not want to pay 650 dollars for a new console. Be patient.

    If Microsoft/Sony have any brains at all, they won't do that. They should have learned from the PS3 launch price that you just can't go over consumer's expectations.

    Nintendo recently learned that with 3DS, the $250 launch price was WAY too high, once they lowered it below $200 it took off.

    Wii U needs to be dropped to $199/$249 for the Basic/Deluxe consoles, and it needs it yesterday. Yes, Nintendo is already losing money on every one sold, use some of that $14 billion in cash to buy some marketshare and get a foothold before this fall.

    Back to topic:
    Aside from DS and FB, What are the thoughts of GE retiring at the end of this year as well? I have seen the rumors, but if GE goes too, I think GE will actually go for more than FB

    250 pages in and we still have a topic? :)

    Yes, if GE went this year it would do well, but I've seen multiple lists from sources that I trust that both GE and PS will retire end of 2014, TH end of 2015.

    Anything can change however, nothing is set in stone, but that is what I expect to happen.
    madforLEGO
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    PS going at the same time as GE? That is kinda weird that GE would get an extra year and PS would not.
    PS is a great set, but I much rather get those at a discount. I know the price per part is comparable to other mods, but it just seems smaller.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    PS has about 100 fewer parts than GE, but they do indeed feel smaller.

    That being said, PS feels more detailed than GE does, I personally like PS much more, it has more going on.

    FB remains my favorite. Part of that might be it was my first, part of it might be that I'm just a big kid inside and I like fire stations. Part of it might be the fire truck (which is just cute beyond words).

    PS is my second, having just built TH, I have to say now that I don't really have a third. It would have been GG, but meh, it just didn't do it for me, and I think CC was blah. TH was boring and GE is just too repetitive.

    Cynical I have become... no longer wowed, am I...
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    I like the GG, if only for the color of it.
    The mods have been getting better I think, at least until PC with the stickers.
    I do like the PS and agree it has a lot more 'action' in it and you can always split up the buildings too.
    I kinda hope they do another mod like this coming up.. maybe a small hardware store and another townhouse or apartment above a store or something.
  • ISDAvengerISDAvenger Member Posts: 205
    edited June 2013
    Sorry to interrupt the gaming discussion here and put the topic back on topic.....which not sure what that topic is anymore. So would you think $750 shipped is a decent deal for two NIB DS?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Sorry to interrupt the gaming discussion here and put the topic back on topic.....which not sure what that topic is anymore. So would you think $750 shipped is a decent deal for two NIB DS?

    Topic? Topic? We don't need no stinkin' topic!!! :)

    Yes, $750 shipped is a decent deal for DS. Would I personally take it? No, not now, since I have a pile of them, but if I didn't have any and wanted one to build and one to hold for future sale, that is as good a deal as any right now.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    ^I don't, but it all depends on what "decent" means to you.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    As long as the boxes have not been tampered with I would say that 750 shipping is a decent deal.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    If you place 2 orders from [email protected] right now, you will get Free Shipping and Jor-el, plus 800 VIP points. Doesn't TN have no sales tax? Essentially, you'd get $40 in VIP and you can sell off JOR-EL.
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,263
    Ive been enjoying the console wars discussion. My only comment there is on the other side of the tablet style games being released for consoles is a console based on tablet style gaming like the now complete Kickstarter project OUYA. I supported it and just got mine but havent hooked it up yet. Its about a 4 inch cube with a Ps3 style controller. Like LFT said there are too many options out there these days for Nintendo to not be more flexible. If they dont adapt theyll die off.
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    ^Yes, I have enjoyed the console discussion as well. LFT and y2josh present very valid points from both sides.

    I usually buy every system at some point and Nintendo is my favorite IMO, although I do play mostly on the Xbox due to more games being released for it. Microsoft and Sony owe Nintendo for creating console gaming. They would love it if Nintendo stopped making consoles and had to start making games for them. I don't think that will happen, the fans of Nintendo are really the ones that keep it alive and they have a lot of fans. Well deserved too with all the original games and characters Nintendo has. I could never say Microsoft or Sony has an equivalent for characters like Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Star Fox or the others. Sure, you can say there are characters like Master Chief that are hugely similar, but I can't really put FPS characters in the same category.

    Nintendo takes much different routes than Microsoft and Sony that may make companies like EA upset. This is only business related. EA has mega business goals. They put out a lot of games, have a ton of licenses and make a lot of money. However, they also spit in their customers faces a lot by not fixing bugs, trying to sell too many microtransactions and by not listening to any of the gamers complaints about their games. They've been named worst company for two years in a row now by an internet gaming poll.

    Microsoft and Sony go down this road as well. Produce FPS after FPS after FPS. How many Call of Dutys are there now, 14? It's really about money and it gets boring after a while which is why an innovative company like Nintendo is so important. Oh, Nintendo is selling a hugely popular motion controlled system? Looks like Microsoft and Sony will have to steal ideas and technology, sue each other and then produce stuff like the Kinnect to better compete.

    You can also see how "smart" Nintendo is when you look at their hardware. Yes, it is somewhat inferior to computers and computer like consoles that Microsoft puts out, but they always make well made consoles. I have over 8 broken xbox 360s I've gathered from friends over the years. I've also had 3-4 break on me which I would keep sending to them to "fix" for $100 a pop only so I could get the same crappy refurbished hardware back that I sent them. Thanks guys, I'm sure the 30+ games I've bought mostly at MSRP means a lot to you. It's also a slap in the face to gamers considering the failed hardware comes from Microsoft using cheap screws and bad heat sink design.

    Microsoft has also fought it's own battle against pirating. It's simple to mod an xbox. I modded mine about 5 years ago (so I could back my games up of course). They used to put out new safety measures every 6 months on their discs and when they updated the Xbox home screen, but they would be bypassed in a matter of days. I don't pirate games because I really respect developers, but it is super simple for the people with the know how. Nintendo would never have this problem, anyone that tries to hack the Wii usually ends up with a un-updatable bricked piece of hardware. I assume this is half the reason for Microsofts allegedly new stance on used games and the license to one console idea.

    Don't even get me started on Microsoft ruining game franchises and companies like Rare.

    BTW, I want to buy Lego City Undercover and the only reason I haven't is because I can't justify the spend right now with all the other Wii U titles I have but haven't played. This comment makes my whole post relatable to this forum. Thanks
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    edited June 2013
    Dougout said:

    Don't even get me started on Microsoft ruining game franchises and companies like Rare.

    The only thing I feel like they out and out 'ruined' was Perfect Dark. Aside from that, Rare has put out a lot of good to outstanding games for the 360.

    To the piracy and 'console-lock' option that's getting attributed to Microsoft... there are two things that would surprise me.

    First, it seems unlikely that Microsoft pushed for this, but rather, your big developers like EA or Activision (the folks that lose huge chunks of money to used game sales). Microsoft themselves would have little to gain from forcing every game to be locked to their console... and also little in the way of means of forcing publishers to require it (without shooting themselves in the foot, of course). When the people at Microsoft say, 'We haven't finalized this yet,' I don't think it's because they're trying to save face (indeed, all the muddled information is hurting them more than anything), but because it wasn't completely their idea to begin with and they're still ironing things out behind-the-scenes.

    Secondly, I'll be shocked if the PS4 doesn't have a similar (or identical) feature. It seems likely that EA dropped their 'online pass' system because, with Wii U support not an issue, they knew they recover 'lost used game revenue' from the activation fees for playing a game second hand. There's no way in my mind that EA would leave all that money on the table if they weren't aware of something similar that's going to hamper used game sales on the PS4 as well.

    That said, I have no real problem with crushing GameStop underfoot, but they need to address the bigger concern (for me) of not being able to lend a buddy a game or not being able to play it on two different systems in the same house. I care way more about that than I do about any inconvenience this poses to the second-hand market.

    @LFT - I'm not quoting you here because your post was giant, but, though we differ in our ideas of what numbers are critical to look at, it seems our prescription for Nintendo to get back on track is pretty similar. I do think if their next console isn't more 'traditional,' they're going to be in pretty bad shape, but I don't think we're to the point of 'too little, too late' yet.

    Sorry to interrupt the gaming discussion here and put the topic back on topic.....which not sure what that topic is anymore. So would you think $750 shipped is a decent deal for two NIB DS?

    At this point in time, I would say it is not. It's a better deal to just get them from [email protected] at the moment, for all the reasons @Pitfall69 outlined... plus, I would be pretty surprised if they don't show up for SOME kind of similar (or better) discount between now and Christmas.
  • ISDAvengerISDAvenger Member Posts: 205
    I think Ill get a PS3 or a X Box instead now..maybe both.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Dougout said:

    ^Yes, I have enjoyed the console discussion as well. LFT and y2josh present very valid points from both sides.

    @y2josh does make some good points, and Nintendo did go through some tough years with the GC, and indeed they have perhaps the best collection of IP out there of any company for 1st party games.

    They can make it, but they need to adapt to the 21st century, the old ways of doing business no longer work. It isn't just what is out today, but what will be out in 5 years.

    Have any of you seen the Google Glass video yet?

    http://www.google.com/glass/start/how-it-feels/

    Ok, it is a demo video and the technology isn't quite there yet. But it will be... what does this have in store for games, computers, and everything 5-10 years from now?

    One would be wise to remember something Walt Disney said a long time ago:

    "Keep Moving Forward"
    Dougout said:

    I usually buy every system at some point and Nintendo is my favorite IMO, although I do play mostly on the Xbox due to more games being released for it. Microsoft and Sony owe Nintendo for creating console gaming.

    Don't they all owe Atari? :)

    BTW, you may own them all, but it is telling that you play on XBox more than anything else. That should concern Nintendo. At the height of their power with NES and SNES, their systems had all the games and all the play time. Now they don't.

    This is not a good thing. (for Nintendo)
    Dougout said:

    Microsoft and Sony go down this road as well. Produce FPS after FPS after FPS. How many Call of Dutys are there now, 14? It's really about money and it gets boring after a while which is why an innovative company like Nintendo is so important.

    Yep, and Call of Duty has made how many billions and billions of dollars? They must be doing something right, at least for now. :)
    Dougout said:

    Oh, Nintendo is selling a hugely popular motion controlled system? Looks like Microsoft and Sony will have to steal ideas and technology, sue each other and then produce stuff like the Kinnect to better compete.

    Kinect is the future, not handheld controllers. The first version isn't very good, but it never is. It can track 2 people at VGA resolution. The new one can track 6 people in larger and smaller rooms at 1080P resolution. Once the accuracy arrives (which it doesn't have now), ditching the controller makes sense.
    Dougout said:

    I have over 8 broken xbox 360s I've gathered from friends over the years. I've also had 3-4 break on me which I would keep sending to them to "fix" for $100 a pop only so I could get the same crappy refurbished hardware back that I sent them.

    I'm sure Microsoft learned their lesson, it only cost them like $4 billion dollars. That has a way of getting a company's attention. :)

    You're right however, Nintendo does build their hardware to last. For what it is worth, my PS3 works like a champ, 7 years later, used almost every day.

    Sony is no slouch either when it comes to consumer electronics.
    Dougout said:

    BTW, I want to buy Lego City Undercover and the only reason I haven't is because I can't justify the spend right now with all the other Wii U titles I have but haven't played. This comment makes my whole post relatable to this forum. Thanks

    Yep, of course! :) But as I said, after 250 pages... Topic? What topic? :)

    LEGO City Undercover is indeed pretty cool, for kids anyway, my 7 year old loves it.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    y2josh said:

    That said, I have no real problem with crushing GameStop underfoot, but they need to address the bigger concern (for me) of not being able to lend a buddy a game or not being able to play it on two different systems in the same house. I care way more about that than I do about any inconvenience this poses to the second-hand market.

    This...

    Being able to lend games to a friend, and being able to rent them, are the primary issues of concern.

    I've already built up a vast collection of games on Steam on the PC (thanks amazing sales and deals!), and I can't sell any of them, but for the price paid, I don't mind so much.

    If I paid full price for most of them, then I'd care. If you remove the resale market, then perhaps lowering the price would make sense.

    BTW, the thing that drives me nuts is when a game is in the store on a disc for $60, then the online download price is $60. That is nuts... The game in the store cost physical money to make, to ship, the store gets a cut, etc. The download is just a bunch of 1s and 0s. The price should not be the same.

    Of course I have the same problem with digital movies, many times it is $15-20 for the HD digital copy and $7-10 for the physical Blu-Ray copy. Stupid and dumb is what that is.
    y2josh said:

    @LFT - I'm not quoting you here because your post was giant, but, though we differ in our ideas of what numbers are critical to look at, it seems our prescription for Nintendo to get back on track is pretty similar. I do think if their next console isn't more 'traditional,' they're going to be in pretty bad shape, but I don't think we're to the point of 'too little, too late' yet.

    All fair points... Let me just say this... Find me a console that 6 months post launch has sales 89% lower than the prior generation was selling 6 months post launch, any company, any console, any generation.

    The primary problem is that once launched, the complete lack of interest once the early buyers have their consoles. Is it recoverable? Maybe... but the clock is ticking. If sales don't pickup and hold before this fall when the new systems come out, I think it will be over.

    But I could be completely wrong. :)

    I think they need to get some 1st party games out, and they need them out this summer, then they need to drop the price to $200/250 and they need to do that today. Since this would piss off the early buyers, they need to repeat the 3DS thing and give away a dozen games in the eShop to make up for it. Give people things to tide them over, like Super Mario World and an older Zelda game.
  • sidersddsidersdd USAMember Posts: 2,432


    Have any of you seen the Google Glass video yet?

    All I can think of when I hear Google Glass is this SNL episode:

    y2josh
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    edited June 2013
    ^I love this sketch, mostly because I think there's a lot of impressive technology out there that is mostly stupid or useless. Technology for technology's sake doesn't really interest me, and Google Glass strikes me as just that.

    I think they need to get some 1st party games out, and they need them out this summer, then they need to drop the price to $200/250 and they need to do that today.

    Bringing a AAA title out during the summer is generally a bad idea for the same reason that selling LEGO during the summer is... many people put gaming more or less on hold and buying is down in general for the industry. I do think they need Mario or Link to show up before the holidays, but I'm not sure summer is the time to do that. I have similar reservations about a summer price drop, since the boost in sales would likely look negligible.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    @ISDAvenger. Currently, [email protected] is running both Iron Man and Joe-El at the same time.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,405
    edited June 2013
    @y2josh

    November seems to be the month that the blockbuster games come out.

    Regardless, I'm probably buying the new Xbox and I'm going to chrome it ;)
    indigobox
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,711
    @Pitfall69: Thanks for the heads up about both Iron Man and Jor-El.
    Pitfall69
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    That is true about Google Glass today, but you have to have some vision for the future.

    After all, Apple made an iPad 20 years ago, it was called the Newton. But it was missing a number of things, it wasn't ready for prime time.

    Capaticive touch screens, NAND flash memory, color LCD screens, wi-fi, the Internet, lithium ion batteries, CPU power, etc. all of that had to be developed over the past 20 years, then the vision of Newton could come to life.

    Google Glass as a wearable appliance will not become wide spread. However imagine the Glass screen built into a digital contact lens that you simply wear on your eye. It would just wirelessly draw power from, say a watch or something in your pocket or shoe or whatever, and it would free you from having to wear anything.

    The longer term vision is that it will just be a chip embedded into your brain and superimposed into your vision directly, nothing actually has to be on or in front of your eye, since your eyes simply send data to your brain. An overlay can be inserted int that data feed.

    Far out? Yes, of course, but this is the start. A lot of technologies have to be invented first, but that day will come, I am certain of it.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    In an attempt to get back on topic... :)

    What will retire first, B-Wing or SSD?
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