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How would you feel about re-releases?

mnbvcmnbvc Member Posts: 136
edited July 2011 in Collecting
This is something that I've been thinking about recently. How would you feel about Lego re-releasing Cafe Corner, Green Grocer, Market Street etc at their original price (or very similar to the current modulars)?

On the plus side, if the modulars were re-released, I imagine there would be a high demand for them from all of the people who were in their dark ages and/or didn't realise how fantastic the modular sets would turn out.

The downside would be that the people who overpaid for them would be disappointed, the collectors who bought as an investment would be disappointed and there's a possibility that people wouldn't buy multiple expensive sets in the future. I would say that it's highly likely that far more Fire Brigades and Grand Emporiums have sold because people are buying 5 sets at a time so that they can make a profit when the production cycle halts (although I imagine that so many people have done this, there won't be as much profit to be made out of it - certainly not in a comparable amount of time).

I got thinking about it, because I saw a set on Amazon at nearly £1,500 and it made me sad that Lego don't see any of that money.

So, would you be in favour of a re-release? Or are you sitting on 20 Green Grocers and would be devastated if such news was announced?
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Comments

  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,734
    I think if there's money to be made by it, as a general rule, TLG will go for it. As you said, they're not seeing any of the resale money, so if there's a chance for them to make money (and on no uncertain terms there is), and a chance to even charge more than they did originally, I see no reason why they should not re-release them.

    (and I missed out first time :-))
  • Si_UKNZSi_UKNZ NZMember Posts: 4,179
    They'd make more money by making slight changes to create a new set, since people who already have the originals would also buy it, so increasing sales, so I think that's what they'd tend to do.
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,734
    ^ You mean like this :-)
  • squizsquiz Member Posts: 13
    Didnt they try this with the LEGO legends line? A number of classic sets were re-released but they didnt do too well sales wise. And yes i am saying this as someone who has a GG i hope to sell on later :P
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,288
    edited July 2011
    ^ I also concur that despite conventional wisdom indicating that re-releases would sell well, past experiences seem to indicate otherwise.

    If you look at the ownership numbers on Brickset for the Legend sets and the originals on which they were based, there are more instances of owning the original, and it's often not close. I understand that the originals were available for a longer period of time, but take a look at the Black Seas Barracuda, for example. Widely recognized as one of the greatest sets of all time (Brickset rating of 4.9, rated number 1 set of all time on LUGNET at the time of the re-release), retired for 13 years yet here are the ownership numbers: http://www.brickset.com/search/?query=black seas
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    You have to bear in mind also that part of the appeal of Cafe Corner and Green Grocer is that they are NOT available. So if they were to be re-released, then you could chose freely between say CC and the Grand Emporium and I would guess GE would be far more popular what with the interior etc.
    I have managed to snag a 2nd hand CC and paid 3 times original retail for it, but if it was made available again it would probably be the last modular I would get, with the exception of Market Street. Not that it's not great but I love the others too (more?). So certainly would not rush to buy it.
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    edited July 2011
    Re-release the Market St and Cafe Corner, but furnish them this time. I have both and purchased one at retail and other near retail. Charge Market St ($149 instead of $89) and Cafe Corner ($169 instead of $139).
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    edited July 2011
    Didnt they try this with the LEGO legends line?
    I wouldn't mind if they re-released the Legends line because I was still in the dark ages then. Perhaps the Legends line would be more popular now with Lego being more popular than ever before.
  • sidersddsidersdd USAMember Posts: 2,432
    Jim Foulds was asked this question at Brickworld. He pointed to the failure of the Legends line (and one other example I can't recall) as reasons that TLG is not looking at doing this currently.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,615
    Well like others hit on, the issue is there are a handful of people (relative to the world) that want these sets. Like the Legends set, the number of people who wanted those sets was tiny compared to the amount they had to make. I mean they had to Sell Metroliners at 50% off on Lego.com (if memory servers me correctly) to get rid of them (sad for Lego, great for me, as I bought 4 of them at the time)
  • llanowarsoldierllanowarsoldier Ohio USAMember Posts: 357
    I say CC could be upgraded to where it would include interiors and also redesign the roof to where it all can come off instead of just 1 part of it. You could also change the colors on it also a little bit.
  • legoDadlegoDad Member Posts: 529
    I'd prefer re-releases of older sets with vintage packaging and some extra's or slight modifications to improve on them.
  • RavenhookRavenhook Member Posts: 70
    Definitely the early modulars.

    The Café Corner and Green Grocer are somewhat different from the Legends line as they have an immediate and growing demand from the people who are only just now getting into modulars.

    They are almost essential to have a "complete looking" row of the houses. Almost everyone I know who has a recent modular, such as the Fire Brigade or Grand Emporium, wishes they could get the earlier ones.

    The fact that $1000 Café Corners sell at all should suggest that demand for a re-released $149 version would be very, very high.
  • streekerstreeker FranceMember Posts: 299
    edited July 2011
    Instead of looking back, look forward. The Modular line has proven to be so popular, exactly how many more buildings will they crank out and can my wallet keep up? Are you prepared to get each and every set, say if Lego releases one a year for the next 5 years ($750), 10 years ($1500)? Rumours are that a Town Hall is to follow the Pet Shop and assuredly more to come. Is the price going to stay at $149 or increase? Either I'm going to run out of space to display my street or money to buy. In that case, I'm going to have to be more selective about which buildings to purchase and forget about how complete my collection looks.

    I'm not sitting on 20 Green Grocers, thank God. I have one Cafe Corner that I bought when it was first released because it was so beautiful and unusual for its time, and passed on the Market Street even at $44.99 because I thought and still think that it's just not as beautiful.
    Those thinking of cashing in by buying 5 GEs or FBs will make some money, but I agree wholeheartedly with the OP that those sets will not skyrocket, and at $149 a pop, there are other sets to buy.

    I would be interested in hearing what collectors of the Star Wars UCS think of the modular line as they are similar in terms of collectability. Did you buy every set? Do you regret not getting every set? Do you regret getting every set?
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Definitely the early modulars.
    The fact that $1000 Café Corners sell at all should suggest that demand for a re-released $149 version would be very, very high.
    I still think people are mistaken with the word 'demand'. The fact that Cafe Corners sell for $1000 means nothing more than '2 people somewhere in the world were desperate for a Cafe Corner', this certainly doesn't mean that if LEGO re-released it people would be queueing around the streets to get one. Its the collector mentality, we want it (desperately) because we cant have it. With the exception of people who have recently come out of their dark ages, why would anyone else want it?? They didnt buy it when it was out the first time?

  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,751
    edited July 2011
    The fact that Cafe Corners sell for $1000 means nothing more than '2 people somewhere in the world were desperate for a Cafe Corner'.
    Yesterday's Market Street sale on Ebay. The two highest bids were £90 above the rest of the pack. It sold for £413. Had the second highest bidder not been around, it would have sold for £324. It just takes two!

    Anybody got a Market Street to sell? :o(
  • EricEric Queensland, AustraliaMember Posts: 376
    ^ In a way that's the problem with eBay from a buyer's point of view, it only takes two idiots/desperates to make a ridiculous purchase.
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    edited July 2011
    For those hoping for a re-release of Market Street or Cafe Corner, the alternative is for Lego to release more sets containing rarer parts of these sets such the 1x8 dark blue arc or the white flexible tubing. Make the 1x4 dark blue brick available on pick-a-brick and the price of sets will go down as it will become more affordable to piece together.

    http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/1157/valuable-modern-non-minifig-lego-bricks

    I believe that the legends line came out at the wrong time. I'd like to know the statistics of Lego fans now (i.e. Brickset users) as opposed to when the Legends series came out in 2001-2004. I got think that the number has gone up 10x.
    I still think people are mistaken with the word 'demand'. The fact that Cafe Corners sell for $1000 means nothing more than '2 people somewhere in the world were desperate for a Cafe Corner', this certainly doesn't mean that if LEGO re-released it people would be queueing around the streets to get one. Its the collector mentality, we want it (desperately) because we cant have it. With the exception of people who have recently come out of their dark ages, why would anyone else want it?? They didnt buy it when it was out the first time?
    Price is a good indicator of demand. The high resale value of these sets are not isolated to a few instances. These same '2 people' can't possibly afford to continue buying these sets as sales of them continue to escalate.

    There is a perfectly good reason to own more than one of each of the modular sets, besides for investment.... additional floors. Also the pieces selection for these sets are rare, so they make good sets to part out for custom builds.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    ^ Price is a good indicator of A demand, not a good indicator of HUGE demand.
    Take a rare Rolex, it could sell for £50,000 at auction being bid up by 2 people who crave it. But if Rolex were to re-release that model for it's original retail of £4,000 they would not expect 1000's of people to suddenly buy it...
  • GalactusGalactus NLMember Posts: 255
    With the exception of people who have recently come out of their dark ages, why would anyone else want it?? They didnt buy it when it was out the first time?
    I'm not going to buy a $1000,- MB unless I win some jackpot. I will buy several different MB's (at the moment I have none) if they stay on the market long enough for me to get the money together. Or for that matter, if they'd get re-released.
  • Si_UKNZSi_UKNZ NZMember Posts: 4,179
    Anybody got a Market Street to sell?
    Yes, I have a spare. Need a week or two to get the missing minifig and a couple of other bits I'm missing.
  • MCNwakeboardMCNwakeboard VirginiaMember Posts: 279
    edited July 2011
    I have one cafe corner which I purchased when it was widely available. I doubt that I would be interested in a re-release if it was available. It is a great looking building, but somewhat bare compared to the modular buildings coming out now.

    I never purchased a market street and while I somewhat regret that decision, that feeling is due to the increase in value rather than a desire to have a copy of the set. I would still not pay much more than $100 for it.
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    edited July 2011
    ^ Price is a good indicator of A demand, not a good indicator of HUGE demand.
    Take a rare Rolex, it could sell for £50,000 at auction being bid up by 2 people who crave it. But if Rolex were to re-release that model for it's original retail of £4,000 they would not expect 1000's of people to suddenly buy it...
    It depends on how you define HUGE... the analogy has to take into consideration (1) how many people originally bought it vs current production, (2) whether the item is part of a highly desired continuing series, (3) material costs (i.e. precious metals and gems), and (4) is buying multiples a consideration (i.e. one for each hand).

    At can't comment on Rolex (I don't own a watch), but I think your scenario could be possible, especially if the original price was $149 and the auction price was $1000.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,751
    edited July 2011
    ^ In a way that's the problem with eBay from a buyer's point of view, it only takes two idiots/desperates to make a ridiculous purchase.
    Well, I've been called "desperate" a few times whilst out with the lads on a Friday night, but I'm not sure I recall the last time I was called an "idiot"!?
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    One more re-release just means one less new set. I hate reruns. :-)
  • bluelion3bluelion3 Member Posts: 156
    You will sell more of a new Modular building that no one owns already than a re-released Modular building that some people already own. And if I only have USD $150, I can only buy one of them.

    I love the idea of re-releasing sets, but it makes sales forecasting very difficult for TLG. Today, a set is in stores for a year or two and then retires. LEGO can estimate how many castles (for example) they will sell in that time frame. But if there are two different castles offered in the same time frame, they have difficulty forecasting the sales of each one. Even AFOL demand is not infinite so that they will sell enough of both castles to be profitable.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,615
    edited July 2011
    ^ In a way that's the problem with eBay from a buyer's point of view, it only takes two idiots/desperates to make a ridiculous purchase.
    Well, I've been called "desperate" a few times whilst out with the lads on a Friday night, but I'm not sure I recall the last time I was called an "idiot"!?
    That's why I cringe when I hear someone call another person 'idiot' for someone wanting a set on eBay...
    If there is a demand, at that time, for a set, HOW are they idiots? Look, if there are only '2' people fighting over a market street then logic would dictate that prices would plummet after those two got a market street.. as I have not seen this yet I take it they are wanted enough for people to pay a good amount for one...
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 9,615
    edited July 2011
    princedraven's point (I believe) is this:

    Many people wanted a Metroliner... enough that Lego heard this and decided "Ok we will build them and sell them out..."
    Well as I noted before they wound up sitting on a shelf and being discounted heavily to get rid of them....
    While the Cafe Corner is sold out, there are still many out there. Most, obviously, in the hands of either collectors or resellers, but they are out there. This will, more than likely, mean that those are people that will never buy another of the set they have.
    AND Lego has a decision to make of HOW many is enough? 100K, 200K, 300K?
    Lego does not do things in small batches, I gather they make a lot to maximize their profits..
    (Plus the cost of any special color that was for that set.) Well, if they make a ton of cafe corners and only sell half of them, then have to then cut the prices 50% to get rid of the rest.. how much money is Lego making really??
  • mrfootballmrfootball Member Posts: 84
    If re-releases became a common practice, it would destroy the collector market and have an overall effect of reducing the appeal of Legos. What Lego has got going right now is about as close to perfect a situation as you can get. No need to fix what ain't broken.
  • pendypendy Member Posts: 2
    i think there is a decent potential in a re-release series and i welcome the introduction of one. i personally hate the how expensive discontinued sets are on ebay/amazon/bricklink, especially on the modular and star wars sets which are among my favorites. id also like to see the prices of the originals fall, just to spite the cheeky vagabonds who bought them just to sell later at a higher price, its just not cricket.

    although i never researched second hand lego at the time, i believe the legends series failed because the prices of the re-releases were higher than the prices of the used originals, so people in the know would of just bought second hand.

    there should be re-releases of cafe corner, green grocer and the ucs millenium falcon at their original prices in the next 5 to 10 years i think. theres definitely a lot of money to be made, so why not.
  • sonsofscevasonsofsceva 1904 World's FairMember Posts: 539
    One theme that already does this is Star Wars. They have released a few Millennium Falcons of various size and detail, X-Wings, Slave 1, etc., and they continue to make money at it. But the reason is because young people are still coming on board the Star Wars series through the cartoons and are newly into LEGO also, along with the AFOLs who are still SW fans coming out of their dark ages. The two together are a large enough base for retreads.
    The question is if there will be enough future AFOLs to justify the re-release (with some changes) of modular/large-build sets. I, for one, would rather have a Taj Mahal again than the Cafe Corner or Market St. or Green Grocer (although I would jump on these also). But I am not going to hold my breath. I am not sure the appeal of retreads outside of long-standing licensed merchandise like SW would fare well.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    ^ there has been no re-release of SW sets, these are new sets of the same ships, this is a completely different subject IMO. People who already own a Falcon will still be tempted to buy a new one for the new design, figs etc...
    I you re-release the Cafe Corner, none of the people who own it will buy another copy (why would they??). So TLG have just ruled out 1000's of sales. Release any of the TONS of great ideas for new Mods and they have all the existing fans and new purchasers.
    Same for UCS Falcon, if TLG re-release I swear they would lose money, or for sure not make the money they could on a new UCS set. Ergo, can't see it happening..
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    If they updated the Market St and Cafe Corner with furniture and interior, like they did with Star Wars, I bet at least 50% of those who already own one would buy it. I think it would be smart if LEGO did do this... it would not necessarily benefit those who already own one, like me, but I don't plan to sell my copies given it would be impossible to replace.

    I hate to say this, but LEGO has made some poor sets in the past and an update of the early Modulars would not be the worst decision that they make. It may be early now, but in a few years, why not.

  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,130
    It's ironic that some of the sets that folks here love... would not necessarily become big money makers (as has been proven with the legends sets).

    Some of my favorite old time sets were the Hobby sets of the mid to late 70s (390, 391, 392, 393, 394, 395, 396, 398)... these are sought after today... but were considered failures when introduced in the 1970s... I guess antique car models et al, were not very wanted for children back then.

    And auctions can be very fickle... as they say on the Antiques Roadshow... (for auctions) "and on a good day it can go for even higher".... it very much depends on how many people are interested on a particular day.

    The biggest extreme in LEGO auctions I've ever seen was for a #610 "Double Wheel Toy Set" (Canadian version) of 1964... it built a blue LEGO locomotive... Back a few years ago I remember seeing one with box and instructions selling for $18.... then less than a year later a 2nd one of equal condition/contents sold for $383. Sometimes it just doesn't make sense!!

  • davee123davee123 USAMember Posts: 810
    there has been no re-release of SW sets, these are new sets of the same ships,
    Technically, they have, but it was pretty limited (not *really* worthy of being deemed a "re-release"):
    7142 (re-release of 7140)
    7152 (re-release of 7150)

    As I recall, that was different packaging and a new set number, but otherwise, I believe they were identical.

    DaveE
  • IstokgIstokg MichiganMember Posts: 2,130
    ^ And then we have the opposite with the 10152 Maersk Ships.... the 2004 and 2005 versions had the same "MAERSK SEALAND" stickers... but the 2006 version stickers dropped the "SEALAND". Odd sometimes how TLG does what they do....
  • yys4uyys4u USA SoCalMember Posts: 1,092
    I think @bluelion3 is right. They'd make more releasing a completely new modular set than releasing an old one.

    Still I think it may be beneficial to re-release them with updated interior, at least so it's different and some who have it will still buy it, as @vwong19 stated.

    I myself, being a collector, have just started collecting modular buildings with the Fire Brigade, but I would really like to own all of them, but if they continue releasing them for a while then maybe I can do without the first 3, mainly because of space.
  • bluelion3bluelion3 Member Posts: 156
    edited July 2011
    My local LEGO shop (Delaware) had Fire Brigade, Grand Emporium, and Pet Shop all on the shelves today. Amazon (US) has Fire Brigade and Grand Emporium still available for the regular retail price. It's hard to imagine having a re-released Modular on sale at the same time, competing for sales and shelf space with three other sets. I don't have any Modular buildings yet, but I will say they do look nice (except the ugly Market Street). I could see myself going for the GE or PS if I can convince my wife to let me get them after spending $140 on the new Millennium Falcon!
  • yys4uyys4u USA SoCalMember Posts: 1,092
    ^agreed, I can't see them releasing anything right now with 3 modulars on the shelves. But maybe in a couple years or so?
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    Given all the possibilities for modular buildings, Lego should NEVER re-release any of them. They could do another streetside cafe but it should look competely different. There's simply too much potential for urban diversity to put the same stuff out twice.
  • EricEric Queensland, AustraliaMember Posts: 376
    ^ I'm with Prof, they could do so much more. Why rehash the same stuff?
  • RavenhookRavenhook Member Posts: 70
    Because Café Corner is iconic, and you've quite simply failed at being a modular collector if you don't have one... ;)

    Which means, fewer AFOLs will attempt to start a modular collection, which means fewer future sales of modulars, until TLG considers it unprofitable to even design them, which means the line will crumble and die.

    So there. Re-release, or see the modulars perish through AFOL apathy!
  • JP3804JP3804 Member Posts: 332
    ^ I think these will always sell well. MOCer's will buy them because of the low price per piece and variety.
  • vwong19vwong19 San DiegoMember Posts: 1,183
    edited July 2011
    ^^^^ NEVER say never. I'm a strong proponent for an updated re-release. I know how it is to be a collector of hard to find toys, since I also buy action figures. Up until the Collectible Minifigures, LEGO products have been relatively easy to obtain if you were a collector during their release. Like many fans of Star Wars who missed out on early sets, they eventually released updated versions. I could see LEGO celebrate the 10 year anniversary of Modulars in 2017 by updating their 2007 releases, Market St and Cafe Corner.

    Who says we can't have more than one set released per year.... Market St and Cafe Corner were released together. At the moment we have 3 available, but by December it will likely drop down to 2. LEGO could add a limited run of the re-releases to bookend the new 2017 model.

    ^^I'm sorry, but the modulars are immensely popular despite many people not being able to own them all. Just as I'm missing a few early iconic Star War sets, doesn't mean I do not collect what's available now. A fan of this series should definitely start collecting and hope for an eventual re-release or an increase in supply of the the rare elements for manual assembly. The worse scenario is to love the series, but not collect them due to a few discontinued sets... then later discover that LEGO will re-release early sets, but then not have the current sets as they will also be discontinued also.

    If LEGO does not re-release these sets, then in 5 years someone can buy my Market St or Cafe Corner for $2000. Thanks LEGO.
  • macmonmacmon Member Posts: 80
    It would be nice for those who did not get the set and want it now. But not good for those who bought it at a high markup already. But I guess one of the reason why LEGO keeps pushing the price up is that they see people buying the stuff at much higher prices.
  • yys4uyys4u USA SoCalMember Posts: 1,092
    I think the thing people need to remember is for lego to re-release anything, it wouldn't cost them much. They wouldn't have to brainstorm an idea, research the idea, conceptualize the build, create new pieces, etc.
    It would be a huge endeavor to create a completely NEW modular, whereas re-releasing one would just require them to bring up old molds and hopefully come up with an interior. They could easily re-release one along with the release of something new, and even though it probably won't sell as well as a completely new one, it would have costs much less to produce and thus IMHO would still be profitable.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    Re-releasing sets will only cost TLG money. Most of the older sets contain parts that are no longer produced. There is limited shelf space in stores and they want a set that appeals to the largest possible group of consumers at the cheapest price - a re-release does not meet this criteria. Finally if consumers knew that they could buy any set at any point in time in the future they would hold off on purchases - the 2 year cycle promotes frequent and large purchases. As a fan re-releases would be awesome but given that TLG came close to going out of business in 2004 I don't see them making poor business decisions again anytime soon (let's hope).

    If you missed out on a set bricklink/ebay is your friend. Given that TLG actually directs you to bricklink when they do not have a certain piece/set instock that speaks volumes on their business strategy going forward - no re-releases for sets that do not contain current parts. One interesting trend that has just started is for TLG to do further production runs for recently discontinued sets that are popular and selling them online only through their website. Don't miss the boat the second time around!
  • ryan498ryan498 Member Posts: 37
    I would love TLG to re-release some of the older sets uner Legends or somthing similar again :)
  • RavenhookRavenhook Member Posts: 70
    I'm sorry, but the modulars are immensely popular despite many people not being able to own them all. Just as I'm missing a few early iconic Star War sets, doesn't mean I do not collect what's available now.
    True. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek! I hope very much the modulars continue indefinitely, and keep getting better and better.

    There's a grain of truth in it, however. I recently helped get someone into the modulars, but it was touch and go when I explained the huge difficulty in getting a Café Corner and Green Grocer, which he thought was key to have an impressive collection.

    There's a large element of jealousy for what other collectors have!

    However, given that the currently available modulars - Fire Brigade - Grand Emporium - Pet Shop - makes an impressive lineup in its own right, I think that's why TLG will continue to "overlap" the releases.
    If LEGO does not re-release these sets, then in 5 years someone can buy my Market St or Cafe Corner for $2000. Thanks LEGO.
    A ha! The real reason for the many people here not wanting a re-release!
  • CafeCorner1996CafeCorner1996 Member Posts: 1
    I want re-release of all the sets when the Lego Modular Houses series are finished. I have so far the Fire Brigade, Grand Emperiom and Pet Shop (I've ordered the Green Grocer too, I'm waiting for my order). When I first discovered the sets (2008), I really wanted to buy these sets, first of all the Cafe Corner later the Market Street, but when I finally saved up enough money they were no longer in stock :-(
    I still hope they will re-release it someday! I hope then the re-release of Cafe Corner will come with inside interior details such as cafe desk (and more cups, glasses, stools and tables) on the inside of the cafe house there and hotel rooms (bed, bathroom, night table, TV), also walls between the stairway to the hotel. I think they will earn a lot of money on a such re-release, many people who don't even have those sets. They could of course change some colors, but I think after all it's a perfect set.
    Is there any way where we can contact the Lego Group about a request?
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