Seeking Input on eBay Transaction Issue

Playftl · December 2012

I've recently sold a Bilbo mini figure along with the little pouch given out at SDCC 2012. Nowhere under my listing did it state that the scavenger map was included. However, I included the map in the package when the buyer inquired about it. The buyer has just opened up a case stating that he didn't receive the map and that the item doesn't match the description.

I'm fairly new to eBay so I'm looking for any sort of advice to approach this situation thanks.

Dread_Pirate · December 2012

Well let him know that you will double check your inventory just in case it did slip by, but also let him know that you distinctly remember packaging it and also let him know where in the package it would have been located. Link the E-bay listing to him and point out that the map is not part of the discription, and it was a courtsey of you to include it.

I have found that if you stand up to potential scammers they will back down. I have also noted that people looking for a specific item may get listings mixed up and think your listing stated what another's did. If you sent him what your auction description stated then you wont have much to worry about.

I sold an HO scale locomotive that I had multiples of and only removed one from the package to photograph. The one I didnt remove I had forgotten I removed the couplers and draft boxes a few years prior while installing a decoder. I never got around to finishing up the engine and still had the couplers in my tool case. The new owner of the engine sent me a message about the couplers and I told him I would look for them. I was honest about what had happened (I remembered not putting them back on after he mentioned the engine didnt have any). I ended up finding the factory couplers (which were not that great to begin with) and I also sent him a set that I was planning on using on the engine anyway which were much better. The cost to me was minimal as I have hundreds of these couplers laying around but due to my own fault he didnt get any when he should have. Sometimes it is not our fault but if you can make things right then it is always worth a couple $$ for a stamp to send what needs to be sent. If you are being scammed then you can still come out OK so long as you dont lose your head in the process, and promise what cant be given.

y2josh · December 2012

My first inclination is to think that he's trying to scam you. What kind of feedback does the buyer have?

Additionally, you say that the map isn't mentioned, so you're good there, but is it in any pictures you used?

It's also worth noting that eBay will go through your communications with the buyer if the case gets escalated to a claim, so you may have an issue insofar as that goes if you specifically told the buyer you'd include the map.

Playftl · December 2012

@Dread_Pirate Thanks for the tip, I'll do that.

@y2josh 97.1% with 224 feedbacks.

It is not in any pictures I've used for the listing.

That is what I'm mainly concerned about. I know I included it in the package because I specifically went to the store to buy a size 2 bubble mailer so I can fit the map in the package. Does eBay usually side with buyers or sellers with these types of disputes?

LegoFanTexas · December 2012

^ I might be the odd man out here...

But I personally believe there is no margin in asking someone to buy or keep something they don't want.

Have you simply asked him what he wants to be happy? Does he want to return it?

I have a "no returns" policy on eBay, yet I take returns all the time anyway. Almost all the time, when I do I get great feedback, heartfelt thanks, and the sets often come back in perfect condition.

It depends of course on the item and how the buyer asks, but most are very friendly and I find I get good repeat business by treating people right.

forumreader · December 2012

I agree with LFT; it's not worth the hassle dealing with this long term. Take the return and find a buyer who will be happy with your product.

y2josh · December 2012

^That's true, too, though this seems problematic in that, from the OP's description, he sent a map that the buyer says isn't there... so he's probably out a map if he gets a return. I'm all for great customer service, and I'm not completely privy to the situation that the buyer and seller are in here, but if the buyer is legitimately trying to run a scam, I'm definitely not in the "oh well, let him get away with it" camp.

Playftl · December 2012

My primary concern with accepting the return is that he might not ship back the map and maybe even the pouch, which is what makes the lot so valuable in the first place. :/

Crowkillers · December 2012

Where are you from and where is the buyer from..? Same country..?

Ebay almost always sides with the buyers...

I sold a Transformer Toy to a scammer from China back in August who took 2 weeks to pay me until I filed a payment not recieved case and then he finally paid me, and then 2 weeks later he filed a claim with Ebay and Paypal that he never received the item... I tried to communicate with the buyer, but he would not respond, so I refunded him back his $106.00($91 for shipping and $15 for shipping) I asked the buyer that I would appreciate if he would send me the money back when he receives the item...

I followed the activity of this buyer and one week after I sent him the refund, he was no longer a "registered member" of Ebay, I called Ebay to find out why he was no longer a member and at first they would not give me the info until I told them that I would just email other members whom this guy won auctions of and I would find out one way or the other, they finally told me that he was kicked off of Ebay for abusing the "Item not received" policy

I felt relieved that Paypal would refund my money and Ebay would credit me back the money that I paid them for their fees and finally protect the seller...

I called Paypal and sure enough, he was suspended on their as well... Paypal said that I would be refunded in 24 to 72 hours... Guess what..?

A week went past and NO refund and I then sent several emails asking what was going on and I kept getting replies stating that the case was already closed, so I called up and they told me that the case was reviewed and there was no evidence on my part that the package was ever delivered...

Now this guy was kicked off of Ebay for scamming sellers and suspended from paypal for it and they still didn't take the seller's side...

Ebay also would not refund the fees back to me, so I was out of:

1.) The Toy (worth $90 to $100)
2.) $8 in Ebay Fees
3.) Just under $15 for shipping

Dread_Pirate · December 2012

^^ I had an overseas buyer try some crud like this to me as well. I no longer sell to overseas. In my case it was to do with the time the item takes to clear customs and while it was in customs the buyer petitioned E-bay and Paypal about me not delivering the item. and e-bay awarded him his money back (even tho I provided E-bay with a tracking number and the last tracked location was listed as awaiting customs clearance). A week after I was forced to pay the money back the item was recieved according to the tracking number. By the time I made a claim about this to E-bay the user had closed his account. Not alot I could do. Now I simply dont ship to anything other than Paypal confirmed addy, and only to the US. OH and I have that stated in all my listings.

monkeyhanger · December 2012

It's an awkward situation. If you stick to your guns then if ebay/paypay do employ some common sense, your trade is fulfilled - the person has their item (they've confirmed receipt), just supposedly without an item that wasn't part of the listing. Would the map normally be considered a part of the set sent? I only ask because if not, I wonder what prompted the person to enquire about the map if they were not to know to maybe expect it as part of the set (perhaps it's presence in your pack was the only indication they might actually get one).

If you let this person get away with the scam they'll be free to do it to the next person, on the other hand, they might give you crappy feedback, but you'll get the chance to respond in your own.

If you stick to your guns you rely on paypal doing the right thing by you and that the purchaser doesn't change their story later to state something was missing taht was part of the listing. Again I would hope ebay/Paypal use some common sense here and not jump on the buyers side by default, ignoring all the case facts.

I had someone claim they never received their parcel, and I was overly nice at every stage, just asking them to wait a bit longer than the week they'd allowed Royal Mail to deliver a first class item. I contacted her again to ask if she'd received her item yet, and if not, would she send me an email stating that she hadn't received it so I could use it on my claim against Royal Mail. I never heard from her again - I don't know whether she was a scammer with a conscience, or whether it arrived late and she couldn't be arsed to let me know.

richo · December 2012

LegoFanTexas said:

I have a "no returns" policy on eBay, yet I take returns all the time anyway. Almost all the time, when I do I get great feedback, heartfelt thanks, and the sets often come back in perfect condition.

Not sure if it's different in the US, but in the UK, I don't think a business seller can legally have a 'no returns' policy. Distance selling is part of consumer law, which gives statutory cool off and right of return, not to mention different policies covering accuracy of the goods.

CCC · December 2012

^ Not if it is sold as an auction. DSR applies where there is a fixed sale price (BINs and second chance offers). Sale of Goods act still applies of course.

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/returnsandthelaw.html

richo · December 2012

^ I think that's generally what I meant, as business sellers in my experience seem to have more BIN listings rather than auctions, which means they do need to offer returns.

monkeyhanger · December 2012

In any case, when returning an item within the cooling off period, you would expect a complete return. The buyer is denying the existence of the map in their consignment (but assumes entitlement to it) so will not be returning it anyway. Is all of the value of this fig tied up in the map and pouch that came with it (is there anything unique about the Bilbo fig when compared with version available in Hobbit sets?). If so, returning only the fig means the buyer gets an expensive purchase for nowt if they are then going to marry the puch/map with a Bilbo acquired elsewhere (polybag/set).

LegoFanTexas · December 2012

richo said:
Not sure if it's different in the US, but in the UK, I don't think a business seller can legally have a 'no returns' policy. Distance selling is part of consumer law, which gives statutory cool off and right of return, not to mention different policies covering accuracy of the goods.

It is different in the US, you can have a "no returns policy" so long as it is stated up front, subject to the fact that you must actually deliver what you sell.

There are laws that say if the consumer does not receive what they were promised, you must replace or refund, you can't substitute goods.

CCC · December 2012

^ That is similar to the UK's sale of goods act (must be as represented and fit for purpose). The distance selling regs cover a customer's change of mind - they can legally return for a refund of all costs if they change their mind.

mressin · December 2012

Basically, the only good solution to the seller seems to be if eBay/PayPal decide that the map was not part of the sale and hence there is no reason to refund.
I guess (but don't know) the question is then if the buyer inquired about the map before he bid for the item, or after the auction was ended? I assume that any personal communications before the end of an auction override the bid description.

LegoFanTexas · December 2012

mressin said:
I guess (but don't know) the question is then if the buyer inquired about the map before he bid for the item, or after the auction was ended? I assume that any personal communications before the end of an auction override the bid description.

These sorts of debates and arguments are pointless and unprofessional. And we all know what assumptions do! :)

Never, ever get into a debate or argument with a customer, they'll win every time, they are the customer! :)

If a customer says something is missing, and you're sure it was there, simply inform them politely on where to look, that you packed it personally, that you are sure it is there. Ask them if the package looks tampered with, as you're happy to file an insurance claim if so.

The goal is to offer a solution to honest customers while giving scammers pause. You keep to the facts, you never accuse, you simply state it like it is and offer some form of help. Always offer help, otherwise even an honest customer will feel blown off.

If you offer to take a return, and you get back less than you sent, you can then issue a partial refund. This looks MUCH better to PayPal, because you have behaved professionally, you accepted a return, found the item returned to be less than was sent, and adjusted accordingly.

Now, instead of the buyer claiming something is missing, the seller is the one with the claim.

Changes the dynamic a lot. No guarantees of course, but it helps.

mressin · December 2012

LegoFanTexas said:
Never, ever get into a debate or argument with a customer, they'll win every time, they are the customer! :)

§1. The customer is always right.
§2. If the customer happens to be wrong, see §1.

LegoFanTexas said:
If a customer says something is missing, and you're sure it was there, simply inform them politely on where to look, that you packed it personally, that you are sure it is there. Ask them if the package looks tampered with, as you're happy to file an insurance claim if so.

The goal is to offer a solution to honest customers while giving scammers pause. You keep to the facts, you never accuse, you simply state it like it is and offer some form of help. Always offer help, otherwise even an honest customer will feel blown off.

If you offer to take a return, and you get back less than you sent, you can then issue a partial refund. This looks MUCH better to PayPal, because you have behaved professionally, you accepted a return, found the item returned to be less than was sent, and adjusted accordingly.

Now, instead of the buyer claiming something is missing, the seller is the one with the claim.

I should have known better, but got entangled into "rights" and "wrongs" and "rules" (and I am still interested to know if personal communication overrides bid description ;), but you are absolutely right. Arguments rarely solve any situation. The key message is:

LegoFanTexas said:

Changes the dynamic a lot.

Changing the dynamic of a situation is the best thing to do, in any situation.

This is quite easily the best and most helpful post I have ever read on this forum, as far as selling and buying are concerned.

cheshirecat · December 2012

LFT always seems to give the best possible advice regrading US sales issues.

As an aside, the UK distance selling rules were slightly more sensible than just for change of mind, otherwise it would apply to shop bought items. It was to deal with customers not getting an accurate idea of an items size, quality, construction, colour etc from a description or image.

Seeking Input on eBay Transaction Issue

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