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Buying LEGO on eBay

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  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Member Posts: 10,788
    dragonhawk said:

    ^ CCC is correct and those are the other disadvantages of using reserve price.
    As buyer, if no one else bid, then you are forever stuck in the initial/lowest price without the ability to reach the reserved price.

    That's not entirely true, if you keep bidding and hit the reserve then it move to that price and the reserve is off.
  • graphitegraphite Member Posts: 3,275
    ^ he said if no one else bid. You can't bid against yourself to make the bid go higher.
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    edited November 2012
    ^^ I think what he meant was if no-one else bids, then your bid will never go up unless you reach the reserve. You cannot be close to the reserve such that the seller knows how close you are, thus informing the seller you are interested in the item at a price close to his valuation, but not quite.

    You can of course bid 1 or 100 times and reach the reserve and buy it.
  • CoyotelilyCoyotelily Member Posts: 661
    When your selling on eBay you can view a bid history which tell you what everyone has bid whether you have a reseve price or not
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    ^ It doesn't tell you their maximum bid though, does it? Just one increment above what the second bidder bid.
  • Si_UKNZSi_UKNZ Member Posts: 4,179
    I never ever use ebay without using a bidding service to manage all my bids for me.
  • DadDad Member Posts: 816
    graphite said:

    ^ he said if no one else bid. You can't bid against yourself to make the bid go higher.

    Yes you can until it hits the reserve. Then you can't.

  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 1,996
    ^Even then, you can increase your maximum bid whenever you want to.
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    Dad said:

    graphite said:

    ^ he said if no one else bid. You can't bid against yourself to make the bid go higher.

    Yes you can until it hits the reserve. Then you can't.

    No you can't.

    If the reserve is £50, and you bid £5 (starting price), then £10, then £20, then £49.99, the bid showing will be £5. Your maximum bid goes up, but your active bid remains at the start price until either you meet the reserve or someone else bids. If someone else bids below the reserve, your bid will go up to their bid plus one increment (or £49.99, whatever is lower).

    So you cannot bid against yourself to make the bid go higher.
    dragonhawk
  • DadDad Member Posts: 816
    ^Agreed. That's what i meant. So you can bid against yourself to make the bid go higher ( meet the reserve ) . Because meeting the reserve makes the bid go higher, and no one else is bidding so by default you are bidding against yourself.
  • tdhbrtdhbr Member Posts: 188
    A couple years ago I listed a non-Lego item on eBay with a reserve of $150. Based on similar eBay sales I believed I had a realistic expectation of selling it for more than that, and didn't want to sell for less. It got bid to $140 and didn't sell. Later I ended up selling it off eBay for $100.

    So I will never use a reserve price again. If I think there is high demand and potential for good bids for an item, and I definitely want to sell, I will use Auction. If there is a selling price I absolutely want to get, and care less if it actually sells right now, I will use Buy It Now (usually with free shipping - added into the selling price, of course).
  • luckyrussluckyruss Member Posts: 872
    edited November 2012
    ^^^ also agreed. that's kind of what I meant earlier too, but I see that wasn't what I wrote (rushing it at work - what was I doing on brickset?!?)
  • DiggydoesDiggydoes Member Posts: 1,079
    A little off-topic,as much as i (as a seller)like BIN you gotta check out the ebay fees for sellers when putting a BIN option on a item over here in germany! It's ridiculous and will def.eat all profits!
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Member Posts: 10,788
    Well there is a difference between what is 'Bid' and what the current bid is.
    So, you bid on an item for 5 dollars and no one else has bid. In a reserve auction you can bid as many times as you like (not sure if it shows in bid history) to try to hit the reserve. BUT in the auction listing itself that everyone looks at, will still show whatever you bid currently until you hit the reserve
  • CapnRex101CapnRex101 Administrator Posts: 2,364
    I would say frustrating for the buyer, but not stupid on the part of the seller, better to keep the reserve under wraps as that way anyone who really wants it will keep going until they pass that reserve.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Member Posts: 2,115
    @CapnRex101 true but it doesnt look like its going to hit that anytime soon. Ive put my bid in but it only pushed it upby two quid.
  • CapnRex101CapnRex101 Administrator Posts: 2,364
    @Redbullgivesiwind - Well if the reserve is ridiculously high then that is stupidity on the part of the seller, by listing something on eBay it seems to me that this indicates you want to sell an item, so why put a silly reserve?
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Member Posts: 2,115
    @CapnRex101 that's my thought. From his response I got the feeling that the reserve is really high. I dont have a problem with that. We all want to make money. Its just keeping the reserve secret so I cant bid accordingly that is silly in my eyes.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    But perhaps thats why he's set a reserve rather than minimum price. If he told you the reserve he probably thinks perhaps wrongly that he'll loose out. The only reason I can see for wanting to know the reserve is to snipe bid a reserve plus tiny bit amount, understandably thats not what he wants.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Member Posts: 2,115
    ^I can understand that point of view but as a buyer im sure you can appricate that I dont have time to guess what he could value it at. Plus if someone does not bid a reserve he wont sell it anyway. Which is surely the point of listing it.
  • JP3804JP3804 Member Posts: 332
    ^ I think thier point of listing it is to make as much as possible.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^^ I totally agree with you, having a reserve is kind of silly, you'll mostly end up with less money, but in turn you take on less risk. It's for risk averse sellers, not most ebay sellers. All id say is that given he/she put a reserve on the auction, I can understand not revealing it. Say the reserve is £100, they clearly dont want to sell at £99 so they probably aren't too worried about loosing out on a sale at £105.

    I still dint see why not just bid what you think, if it's less than the reserve its over valued so move on, else you may or may not win just like any other auction.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,169
    It costs nowt to bid, bid what you're prepared to pay and if that doesn't crack the reserve then walk away. Think of the reserve as a competing bidder. If someone kept outbidding you beyond what you're prepared to pay you'd walk away.

    If whatever someone is selling is desireable and is listed to end at a sensible time (no point having it end when everyone is in bed or at work), no reserve is needed, and at 3% of the reserve price in fees, I wouldn't put a reserve in if I was selling something and was sure there'd be more than 1 or 2 interested parties that will bid against each other.
    Redbullgivesuwind
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Member Posts: 2,115
    ^^Like I said I can understand the thinking behind why to have it.

    Still Ive stuck my bid on and I will see what happens. Fingers crossed.
  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    edited December 2012
    Having sold a minecraft set on eBay recently, the buyer has come back asking for a refund. There is nothing wrong with the set as it was new and I advertised it as no returns (default), main issue is 'Because of the product u get for the price its shocking i know yhats the price of it everywere but if i knew it was that small i wouldnt of purchased it.' Admittedly it was more than rrp (it was buy it now so not a surprise) but they were out of stock at the time and supposedly not shipping for 3-4 weeks when I sold it. I don't really want to have to take it back or be out of pocket as a minimum, what should I do?
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 1,996
    eBay won't make you take the return, especially given that you specified no returns and this is a case of buyer's remorse... but they also won't do anything about the potential negative feedback you may receive.
  • MatthewMatthew Administrator Posts: 3,714
    ^ but a decent fair reply to the negative won't tarnish your reputation if you stick to the facts.
  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    edited November 2012
    ^^ Thanks, guess if I can get it back unopened (will have to check) and without further cost then maybe it's better to refund it?

    Annoying though, ebay should do something about any neutral / negative feedback though, I've done nothing other than sell and supply the set as described!
  • drdavewatforddrdavewatford Administrator Posts: 6,754
    edited November 2012
    Matthew said:

    ^ but a decent fair reply to the negative won't tarnish your reputation if you stick to the facts.

    Agreed.

    Even so, I'd personally be inclined to accept the return at the buyer's expense and give a refund, but up to you.

  • Pacific493Pacific493 Member Posts: 379
    If the buyer hasn't opened, I'd probably just accept the return at the buyer's expense and be done with it.
  • Brick_ObsessionBrick_Obsession Member Posts: 656
    I would have him return it as his expense, once the item is received in the condition that you sent it to him, then and only then I would return his money in full, excluding the shipping fees for you originally sending it to them.
    tedwardRedbullgivesuwind
  • LegoboyLegoboy Member Posts: 8,827
    ^ This.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas Member Posts: 8,404
    Brick_Obsession said:

    I would have him return it as his expense, once the item is received in the condition that you sent it to him, then and only then I would return his money in full, excluding the shipping fees for you originally sending it to them.

    ^ This...
  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 630
    I sold one a while back above rrp, and he didnt contact me, just placed -ve feedback saying he had been ripped off! -
    If I had gotten the chance I would have offered him a partial refund first,to save on the hassle of a return.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    Are you in the UK? If not ignore the rest...

    And what do you mean by personal seller? Makes no difference if that's just your ebay account type. How many minecrafts have you sold? Thats the key issue. More than two and its likely that ebay will side with the buyer as the distance selling regulations would. At that point the no returns tick has no meaning and in fact, unless stated beforehand, the set could be returned damaged, opened and at the sellers expense. They can even just tell you its ready to be picked up and make you arrange collection. It's unlikely you'd get a buyer like that but it should be kept in mind.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,258
    @chesirecat is citing UK Distance Selling Regulations. All UK ebayers (buyers and sellers) should make themselves aware of these regulations. Here's some handy links:

    http://www.oft.gov.uk/business-advice/treating-customers-fairly/dshome/dsrexplained

    and

    http://pages.ebay.co.uk/safetycentre/rights.html (check out the section headed "What if you change mind").

    In a nutshell, if you are a private seller, DSR does not apply to you. If you are a business seller DSR applies to you for Buy it Nows but not for auctions.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^ there is another ebay page that makes it clear that the type of ebay account you have is far less important than the sellers behaviour. In particular that multiple buy it now's becomes a business transaction rather than just selling an unwanted gift etc. The rules on returns, how and who'll pay for both deliveries are also very specific on when you as the seller have to inform the buyer of the specific terms.
  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I did search the ebay.co.uk help pages but they never quite seemed to hit the nail on the head. Bit annoyed that he is basically trying it on, he didn't have to buy the set. From a personal perspective I cannot see the attraction of this set for the money (even at well below RRP I wouldn't buy it) but then I don't play minecraft.

    @cheshirecat - do you have that specific page you mention? I saw a couple of sections that muddied the water as I had established that I am not a business seller (I don't sell a lot so never really thought about it much tbh) but selling new things seemed to be a bit different; though again not really sure it should make a difference, loads of stuff on ebay is sold as and is new!

    I think I might try two options:

    1 - Refund in line with ebay policy and also trying to minimise any loss to me
    2 - Partial refund to a level where the buyer is happier with the price (I guess RRP) - after all this is his real problem, no doubt he realises he can save himself a few quid now the set is widely available again.

    I will probably post the outcome if that's of interest?
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    edited November 2012
    I can't find the specific page, although this exert might help (be wary of reading ebay guides the will do nothing but confuse you!)...

    "Do I have to provide a refund if the buyer changes their mind?

    Under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 you have to refund an item if the buyer changes their mind within 7 working days after the day on which the item was delivered. However, whether the Distance Selling Regulations applies depends on the type of item sold and the listing format used (see "Where do the Distance Selling Regulations apply", below).

    Under the Distance Selling Regulations, buyers have a period of 7 working days after the date of delivery within which they can cancel the contract (often referred to as the "cooling off" period) and get their money back, including the original postage and packing charges. You must refund the original delivery charges. However, you are permitted to require the buyer to pay for the cost of returning the item, but only if you clearly inform the buyer of this before the contract is made.

    If you didn't provide information about your business required under the Distance Selling Regulations, the buyer has up to 3 months to cancel the contract and get their money back. To get a general idea of the laws governing distance sales, we recommend that you review BIS’s summary of the Distance Selling Regulations and Directgov’s summary of consumers’ rights under the Distance Selling Regulations.

    (Please note that, under the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended), there's no legal requirement for you to provide a refund if the buyer simply changes their mind.)"

    (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/returnsandthelaw.html)

    Thats from a section about business accounts, but bare in mind if you are buying to resell in the eyes of the law you are operating as a business (even if you're not a legal entity) and in the eyes of ebay you should have a business account (http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/whyregisteras.html)

    Bottom line, if you have sold say 5 or more minecrafts especially as buy-it-now you haven't got a legal leg to stand on and ebay know that. They will make you refund, and the original postage costs and the return postage costs (all in line with the DSR). The good news is that although almost 0% of ebay sellers are aware of the DSR even fewer ebay buyers are so that propbably won't happen. All i would suggest is treat the ebay buyer with the utmost respect, give him the options you've put above (which are reasonable) and you should get away with out loosing money. If you don't and he is aware of the DSR or someone mentions it over a workplace coffee you stand to loose more. Like I say, they are well within their rights to open the box and send it back damaged.

    From a legal stand point, trying to suggest you aren't a business seller if you are reselling is even more dangerous - it is a legal offence to try and hide the fact that you are a business and pass yourself off as a consumer (selling second hand unwanted gifts etc) exactly because it would allow you to cirmcumvent the DSR etc.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    PS - minecraft is now OOS online again so he may be more willing to take a small refund and keep the set.
  • leego76leego76 Member Posts: 360
    @cheshirecat - Thanks for the above. Yes, he's gone for the partial refund option and sounded very happy with it (and why wouldn't he be?!). I think that's easiest all round - I won't lose much and saves me hassle.

    Probably a bit of a wake up call for me and may be of use / interest to others too.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,258
    edited November 2012
    Glad you got a solution that both parties are happy with.

    I think a lot of us could do with knowing a lot more about where we stand legally when it comes to selling to be honest, myself included.
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    cheshirecat said:


    Bottom line, if you have sold say 5 or more minecrafts especially as buy-it-now you haven't got a legal leg to stand on and ebay know that. They will make you refund, and the original postage costs and the return postage costs (all in line with the DSR). The good news is that although almost 0% of ebay sellers are aware of the DSR even fewer ebay buyers are so that propbably won't happen. All i would suggest is treat the ebay buyer with the utmost respect, give him the options you've put above (which are reasonable) and you should get away with out loosing money. If you don't and he is aware of the DSR or someone mentions it over a workplace coffee you stand to loose more. Like I say, they are well within their rights to open the box and send it back damaged.

    That five is arbitrary isn't it? Why five, and not 10 or two or one? This is part of the problem - when does a hobby seller become a business. If he buys one with the intention of reselling it, then the answer is with set one.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    ^ As you say as soon as you start buying to resell. Yes its arbitrary but so are, to an extent, HMRCs rules and more importantly here so are ebay's dispute decisions. It would be up to you to prove that you weren't buying to resell not the other way around - that would be easy to do at 1, maybe 2. But at 5 its going to be hard and I'm fairly sure ebay would just side with the buyer in such a situation.

    Take this one as an example - 6 sold, 6 available and not a business seller.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LEGO-Minecraft-Micro-World-21102-Exclusive-Set-Brand-New-Boxed-Sealed-UK-/261130968265?pt=UK_Construction_Toys_Kits&hash=item3ccc9e5cc9

    Fairly sure ebay would side with the buyer and if they didn't the legal process would if the buyer really wanted to take it that route. And because of that ebay is even more likely to side with the buyer - they'd be crazy not to. The no returns comment is meaningless and the lack of any return postage costs on the listing or in future correspondence means the seller would be on the hook for all the postage costs and could even have to arrange for collection from the buyer.
  • roxioroxio Member Posts: 1,384
    I would think that the a good % of regular posters (and lurkers) on here should be registered as business sellers, whether they operate through eBay/bricklink.
    Whether they are or not is another matter, as many see it primarily as a hobby, but soon realise with a little extra work it can be self-funded, even profitable.
    Regarding the original poster, they stated that they don't play minecraft, so it would be a fair assumption it was bought for resale, therefore they are a business and liable for tax.
  • CCCCCC Member Posts: 20,526
    ^ and ^^ agreed.
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    What is a "business seller"? I've never seen any such distinction among types of sellers on eBay.
  • roxioroxio Member Posts: 1,384
    It shows under the eBay name / feedback count on listings - "registered as a business seller".
    Basically anyone reselling who bought it for that purpose should be registered with HMRC (for UK sellers) and submitting an annual tax return
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    It boggles my mind how someone could purchase that set and not know it was small. Am I the only one that researches damn near everything I buy in life?
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    roxio said:

    Basically anyone reselling who bought it for that purpose should be registered with HMRC (for UK sellers) and submitting an annual tax return

    It sounds like it is a UK specific thing then.
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