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[UK Selling] Help! Royal Mail Airsure with full insurance, delivered to the wrong address

fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
edited August 2012 in Collecting
Used Airsure to deliver a package to the States. Fully insured (up to GBP 500).

Online status showed it is delivered. However buyer claimed no delivery. Checked my Airsure receipt, only to find out that the address typed by the Post Office operator had missed a number! (it is a P.O. box address)

I had marked on the item on three different places the correct address and had taken photo before dispatch.

Buyer had opened a Paypal dispute, what to do?

Comments

  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    The item should have gone to the address marked on the item, the PO receipt is just for proof of posting.

    Maybe ask the buyer which PO they collect their items from, and give them a ring?
  • richoricho Member Posts: 3,830
    I always use AirSure, never had a problem, great service, although I did note last week that the average cost of a small box to US, lets say 500-750g weight, has gone from around £6.50 to £11.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    thanks for the reply.

    Buyer says the item was not addressed to him so he cannot collect it from the Post office...

    So the problem boils down to there are two addresses:
    1. the electronic address typed in by the post office operator which showed up in my proof of posting (wrong address, missed a digit)

    2. address on the package which is the correct address

    which address has this item been delivered to? how does the P.O box work? let's say P.O box 7753 and P.O box 775, are these boxes located in the same state???
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    At least in the UK, PO Boxes have an address which is of the local RM delivery office, so say there are 100 boxes.

    PO Box 1
    17 Sample Street
    SA1 2MP

    is at the same DO, and subsequently town as

    PO Box 100
    17 Sample Street
    SA1 2MP

    but
    PO Box 2
    19 Example Avenue
    EX1 2AM

    could be anywhere.

    So in your case PO Box 7753 and PO Box 775 will be in the same place, as long as the rest of the address is the same.
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    Oh, and in answer to
    fy222 said:

    which address has this item been delivered to?

    The address on the receipt and PO System is not accessible to anyone but certain managers on the RM Intranet. Just forget it was Airsure, pretend it was just a bog standard item you paid with stamps and put in the post box, it will have been delivered to the address on the item, the address on the system has nothing to do with it.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    I see. Many thanks! I will call RM tomorrow just to confirm which address they will use for the delivery.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    Okay, should I escalate as the buyer insists that I am responsible for the 'wrong address'?
  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    edited August 2012
    Try the tracking number in here and see what it gives you. This isn't the public tracking system. http://www.royalmail.com/trackdetails

    If it gives you the town it was delivered to, I think you're safe with PayPal, they don't need the full address.

    To be honest, I reckon the buyers got it and is trying it on, and then when they saw you had a mistyped proof of posting it's like their Christmas has come early.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    I wish this tracking system could be more helpful.

    It says delivered to the United States of America... and that is all =(
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    fy222 said:

    Okay, should I escalate as the buyer insists that I am responsible for the 'wrong address'?

    Well... aren't you?

    With respect, the buyer can't control how it is mailed, or where it goes, or what happens to it until it gets into their hands.

    Rather, that is the seller's job. One of the risks of selling online is dealing with issues like this. You can try to get paid back by Royal Mail, or the insurance company, or try to get the package back, but at the end of the day, if the buyer doesn't get what they paid for, you do have to make it right.

    Or not, PayPal will do it for you if you prefer. ;)

    And no, you don't have to like it, I've had it happen to me, so I know the feeling.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    ^ The man talks sense.

    I parted out a Fire Temple and the dragon found a new home in the US. After a month the buyer contacted me to say it had not arrived. I just refunded him. I wasn't happy but I had just sent it regular airmail.

    I did get lucky though. Next day it turned up and the buyer re sent the money as a gift payment. Restored my faith in humanity when he could have kept quiet so easily.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Yeah, LFT knows what's up. When you're a regular seller, you understand that these mishaps/claims happen once in a while. It's part of the calculated risk in selling + shipping items. In the end, hopefully it's only a tiny dent in your earnings.

    When you rarely sell though, and this kind of thing happens... it's like a swift kick to the junk. Terrible, terrible feeling. Suddenly you're losing (potentially) tons of cash and you feel helpless. Hopefully you can somehow resolve this.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    @fy222 Well it would be interesting what Royal Mail says when you tell them the item didn't arrive.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton UKMember Posts: 2,967
    Glad to hear it's not just me who's paranoid enough to take photos of expensive packages before they are sent!

    Rather an interesting situation, though. Unfortunately, I would expect PayPal to be on the buyer's side in this case, as the item has allegedly not arrived and you have not got adequate proof that it has been delivered to the correct place. (To meet PayPal's seller protection criteria you need to provide them with the stamped receipt showing the valid online tracking number and the buyer's address as it appears on the relevant PayPal Transaction Details - as the address is wrong, you can't do that).

    The most sensible course of action would be to refund the buyer (otherwise PayPal will just refund it anyway after the dispute) and seek recourse from Royal Mail. That's probably not going to be fun or easy, but the fact that you took a photo of the package before sending it could be the clincher!
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    kevbags said:

    ^ The man talks sense.

    I parted out a Fire Temple and the dragon found a new home in the US. After a month the buyer contacted me to say it had not arrived. I just refunded him. I wasn't happy but I had just sent it regular airmail.

    I did get lucky though. Next day it turned up and the buyer re sent the money as a gift payment. Restored my faith in humanity when he could have kept quiet so easily.

    Glad to hear it about your buyer...

    There are many, many honest people in the world who will do just that. I've sent large amounts as gift payments for items before, every single time I've gotten what I've paid for. Of course, I do have at least some history with the seller before this, but once someone does what they say they are going to do, I generally find they keep doing it.

    It is just the small percentage of bad apples that makes life hard for the rest of us!
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 2012
    There seems to be some talking at cross-purposes here. As I understand it, fy222 sent the package to the correct address and its delivery at that address has been confirmed. Assuming of course that the package was delivered according to the address written on the package and not one present in a database somewhere. Unfortunately, his/her proof of this is not solid because it contains the error of the omission of a digit.

    I agree with paul_merton that Paypal will simply point to a relevant provision and take the buyer's side. I'm not sure how Airsure will respond to a claim. My guess is that they will say that there's proof of delivery and so they can't pay out.

    It sound like a real PITA situation fy222 and you have my sympathy. It's a good reminder to us all always to check things like receipts for tracked postage.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton UKMember Posts: 2,967
    Proof of delivery is rubbish anyway - I once had a ParcelForce driver leave a package on my doorstep while I was in, without even ringing the doorbell! When I checked the online tracking, it turned out he had forged my signature. I wonder what would have happened if it had gone missing?

    I presume you'll need the buyer's cooperation if you make a claim against Royal Mail, particuarly as it appears to have been delivered, in which case you might want to get him/her to agree to such cooperation before the refund is sent.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    ^ Well, certainly either PayPal or the insurance has to give as either the package was delivered or not. It's not fy222's fault if the post office guy mistypes. If PayPal refunds, why not go to the insurance with that slip as proof the packet wasn't delivered?
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    It's a real pain to have to deal with this type of situation and you have my sympathies. The harsh reality of it is that the buyer's contract is with you, the seller, if the goods don't turn up, it's your responsibility to sort it out, it sounds harsh but it's the way it is I'm afraid.

    It's really no different to you ordering something from Amazon (for example), if it doesn't turn up, you will be expecting Amazon to sort it out and refund or replace, you certainly wouldn't accept Amazon blaming the error on the shipping company they have used.

    Of course, you can then take the issue up with the shipping company, and it sounds like they may have a case to answer, but I suspect it will take some months to reach a conclusion unfortunately. Hope you get it sorted anyway.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited August 2012
    ^^^ I had parcelforce delivery a bunch of kitchen appliances (about £1000 worth) a few weeks ago. Noticed the online tracking say it had been signed for, signature wasn't mine and I was at home all day anyway. Cue frantic phone calls to parcelforce about where the hell my stuff was. Still waiting to hear back when someone from down the street turns up. They'd been left outside his house and obviously signed for by the delivery man so I walked down and collected them but didn't tell parcelforce. Next thing I see is the most worried van driver I've ever seen - clearly went back to the wrong house and saw the parcels gone and still no-one in (the homeowner had gone out again), knowing he'd self signed he would have been in massive trouble. His excuse when I eventually went and told him - he didn't have his glasses so couldn't see the house number. Ridiculous. Luckily i was in a good mood.
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton UKMember Posts: 2,967
    I think Royal Mail make you wait a rather long time before they accept that an item has been lost, so you may still need the buyer to confirm that it still hasn't arrived in several weeks' time.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    Hi all, thanks for all the help!

    I have just called Royal Mail, and confirmed this item has been delivered to the correct address and correct P.O. Box. The tracking in the USPS website also shows it arrived on 9th August to the correct town.

    It seems the buyer has missed the item due to some reason...

    Another issue, if the paypal address and bricklink address are different, how can I convince paypal the bricklink address is also a valid address for the buyer?
  • paul_mertonpaul_merton UKMember Posts: 2,967

    His excuse when I eventually went and told him - he didn't have his glasses so couldn't see the house number.

    Woah! He totally shouldn't have been driving, never mind anything else!

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,315
    fy222 said:


    Another issue, if the paypal address and bricklink address are different, how can I convince paypal the bricklink address is also a valid address for the buyer?

    Simple, you only ship to the PayPal address. Paypal reverse transactions, not BL.

  • MatthewMatthew Cheshire, UKAdministrator Posts: 3,735
    ^ Can we continue this in here please, and just keep this discussion on the Airsure package. Thanks
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    CCC said:

    fy222 said:


    Another issue, if the paypal address and bricklink address are different, how can I convince paypal the bricklink address is also a valid address for the buyer?

    Simple, you only ship to the PayPal address. Paypal reverse transactions, not BL.

    Then this means I am half-dead...

    I shipped to the bricklink address.
  • mountebankmountebank Member Posts: 1,237
    edited August 2012
    fy222 said:

    I have just called Royal Mail, and confirmed this item has been delivered to the correct address and correct P.O. Box.

    You might want to get written confirmation of this in case you want to attempt to persuade Paypal that there should be no refund.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    fy222 said:

    CCC said:

    fy222 said:


    Another issue, if the paypal address and bricklink address are different, how can I convince paypal the bricklink address is also a valid address for the buyer?

    Simple, you only ship to the PayPal address. Paypal reverse transactions, not BL.

    Then this means I am half-dead...

    I shipped to the bricklink address.
    Then you can only hope for an honest buyer, he/she can get an instant refund by pointing out to PayPal that the item was not shipped to the PayPal address.

    Always ship to the PayPal address.

    Hopefully the item is not too expensive, sometimes the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way. I have my own fair share of those! :)
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196

    fy222 said:

    CCC said:

    fy222 said:


    Another issue, if the paypal address and bricklink address are different, how can I convince paypal the bricklink address is also a valid address for the buyer?

    Simple, you only ship to the PayPal address. Paypal reverse transactions, not BL.

    Then this means I am half-dead...

    I shipped to the bricklink address.
    Then you can only hope for an honest buyer, he/she can get an instant refund by pointing out to PayPal that the item was not shipped to the PayPal address.

    Always ship to the PayPal address.

    Hopefully the item is not too expensive, sometimes the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way. I have my own fair share of those! :)
    Any tips on how redirection with USPS works? (provided it has not been collected...)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    As a general rule, USPS doesn't do redirection, however you can always call them at 800-ASK-USPS and ask them.

    Hmm, you can't do that, since you're outside the US. And you're not a US shipper, and the package doesn't have US information on it.

    I did some searching, for some reason they don't easily publish non-toll free call numbers that you can use outside of the US.
  • fy222fy222 Member Posts: 196
    thanks. i think i will call the local post office to check first whether the item is still with them.
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