May the 4th Promotion 2013

jcb193

A person might catch it, but a computer likely won't, and I doubt that they cross-reference every new account being setup, but maybe they do ban addresses and then cross-check. Who knows. Either way, I guess it's better to be cautious.

samiam391

jcb193 said:

A person might catch it, but a computer likely won't, and I doubt that they cross-reference every new account being setup, but maybe they do ban addresses and then cross-check. Who knows. Either way, I guess it's better to be cautious.

I think if one is banned, unless un-fairly, that they should honorably accept it, rather than attempt to discover ways to get around it.

CCC

samiam391 said:

jcb193 said:

A person might catch it, but a computer likely won't, and I doubt that they cross-reference every new account being setup, but maybe they do ban addresses and then cross-check. Who knows. Either way, I guess it's better to be cautious.

I think if one is banned, unless un-fairly, that they should honorably accept it, rather than attempt to discover ways to get around it.

Unfairly in Lego's eyes or unfairly in the banned reseller's eyes?

samiam391

^@CCC- Un-fairly in terms of a false accusation on LEGO's part.

If LEGO bans you, and you are not actually someone abusing their system (accidents happen), then you do have the right to fight against it. I would not attempt to cheat the system as retribution by changing/shortening my name, rather I would call and talk to them on the phone.

rocao

Kanohi said:

The trap being LEGO using this sale as a way of identifying resellers. Who really needs 5 B-Wings? Perhaps I'm being paranoid but some odd things have been going on the past few months, to say the least...

I have been spending a significant amount at [email protected] and LBR for approximately a decade now and I am sure that I can be "identified as a reseller" if LEGO bothered to look into it. I have never circumvented any limits or broken any rules intentionally but it seems that that might not be good enough any longer. Maybe TLG is going another step and setting people up with a tempting sale like this. I don't know.

Constructing a trap on one of their larger annual promotions with the intent to broadly ensnare some of their more deep pocketed customers who are actually adhering to the stated limit?

Yeah, that does sound like people are being overly paranoid.

Bandit

If TLG is going through the lengths to ban resellers, I find it hard to believe it wouldn't be based on billing/shipping address (street address, not your name). They're not stupid.

Known reseller billing and shipping addresses simply get added to a blacklist. When orders are placed, this blacklist is referenced, and banned addresses get flagged and cancelled. Doesn't get much easier.

You can create all the new accounts you want, it's the act of ordering that will get flagged.

Dougout

If TLG isn't stupid, then they simply will not ban long-time customers. Heavy abusers may get blacklisted, but then comes the discussion of who is severely abusing the system and who is just buying within the set limits with an occasional slip up. I think this banning reseller idea just came from some people's detest for resellers. Wouldn't read too much into it.

rocao

cloaked7 said:

I agree with first come first served, but I don't think that was the issue. What if they sold the first person in line all of the items? Whether it be LEGOS, tickets, food, medicine. Sure, that is the seller's choice, but is it fair? (Good thing LEGO doesn't run the Red Cross.) I think if the items aren't distributed in a fair way a person is justified in being upset, regardless of their number in line.

I don't think the issue was that the very first person in line got everything, either. We've circled around these kind of arguments before, and I'm in the "discounted LEGO is non-essential and shouldn't be compared with the ethical obligation to distribute a necessity such as food or medicine" camp.

IMO, it's unfortunate if someone was at the store before opening, there was enough stock for everyone to get at least one, and the manager didn't ensure this was the case. Did that actually happen? I make the distinction about being in line at store opening because in my mind that's a reasonable minimum qualification and it's a known quantity from which the store staff can balance satisfying their customers with their goal to sell everything they have.

And you can see that I'm putting the onus on LEGO for customer satisfaction. whereas a lot of people seem to be raging against the people that got to the store before them.

Bandit

Dougout said:

If TLG isn't stupid, then they simply will not ban long-time customers. Heavy abusers may get blacklisted, but then comes the discussion of who is severely abusing the system and who is just buying within the set limits with an occasional slip up. I think this banning reseller idea just came from some people's detest for resellers. Wouldn't read too much into it.

Well, whether this sale was a 'trap' or not can be debated ad infinitum (and I don't think it was, although it may have had that side effect), but I have no doubt TLG will have identified some new accounts they plan on banning, because of it.

Obviously they're just going after the big boys (so far anyway), so I don't think anyone who ordered 5 and doesn't have a big history of multiple set orders in the past will be affected. There are perfectly acceptable (non-reseller) reasons for people to have ordered 5, so you can't ban just based on that fact.

But if you've been close to whatever 'reseller threshold' they've used in the past, and placed a bunch of orders, of if you tried to skirt limits and order 50 copies and whatnot, I can see the TLG ban hammer looming because of this sale. It's likely to be the straw that broke the camel's back for some people...

jcb193

I don't think they need a trap to figure out who is a re-seller. That said, I am sure that re-sellers are big part of their sales sales strategy, whether they want to admit it or not. What company turns away high volume sellers? But I'm sure the image of them not catering to re-sellers is fine.

dougts

^ this.

it's probably a bit of PR and face-saving. Hit the heavy resellers with the threatening letters and [email protected] bans, then be able to tell people (somewhat quietly) that they are doing something about the problem. But they aren't going to go overboard with it, and kill off *all* their top buyers.

Take the VIP shopping event prior to brick Friday. I've been invited the last two years, and I can tell you unequivocally that almost everyone on the dollars spent invite list has been a reseller to some degree. it's like a $15,000+ to annual spend to be in the top 10-20 buyers in a store. Not too many people are spending that amount for personal consumption. And TLG isn't stupid, they know this. On that note, it will be interesting to see if this event continues or is significantly altered in light of LEGO's reseller crackdown.

It would be pretty darn easy to figure out who pretty much all the resellers are, assuming they use VIP (which I'm sure most do). Pull the VIP records of anyone who spent more than $X last year (let's say start at $12,000). A simple glance at how many of various things they are buying would tell you all you need to know. Then lay the ban stick on all of them. But here's the thing - how much would that hurt their brand store sales? More than a drop in the bucket, I guarantee you that. Just by being in the store a lot, talking to employees, etc, I have a pretty decent idea of how much product they move, especially exclusives, and I know roughly how much all the big buyers in my store account for. It's a lot more than a rounding error. So, LEGO is probably trying to cut a fine line - hit the biggest of the big, the ones who maybe stray outside the bounds a little more than others - and quietly let the rest continue on buying product. And heck, even the big ones are still welcome in-store, they just can't buy online.

CCC

Have they told people they are banning some resellers? All I have seen has come from those banned, not from Lego.

dougts

I don't think so, so I guess that invalidates my initial premise. But perhaps it's something they tell their big retailers quietly behind the scenes or that if persistent media types, big retail partners and or irate customers ask, they can fall back on and point to to say that the "are doing something"

i dunno. perhaps I give them too much credit and their data querying and analysis tools or methods are severely lacking.

CCC

TBH, I don't think one part of the company knows what another part is doing. Much like most big companies.

Farmer_John

^This...

seonadancing

I would like the store manager to come out 10 minutes before the store opens and ask the people in line if they're there for the B-wing. I think the manager knows how many he has in stock and just give a number to the people that are in line so they can get at least 1 B-wing. When all the people in line has gotten theirs, everyone else can buy more. The manager cannot assume that there will be another 50 people who will be looking for the set the rest of the day, and limit just 1 set per person.

samiam391

^Then you create un-fairness between people arriving extra early and later. I don't think people that arrived there an hour early, will feel too great getting the exact same amount of item as the person that got there two minutes before the doors opened.

When it comes down to it, there is no perfect solution. Which I think everyone needs to accept :o) Although it is rather fun to throw out ideas into the rings with the hopes of a solution to a problem that will most likely not be fixed.

dougts

^ there is no perfect solution, but there is some basic common sense that could *easily* be applied by the store manager on duty. they knew exactly how many B-wings they had that morning. Look at the line when you open, do the math, and set a limit accordingly. this take basically no time and effort - all they would have to do is care one tiny bit about their customers and creating good customer service. the alternative is lazy, going through the motions kind of management.

My store set a strict limit of one, they applied it uniformly, and no one there had any complaints.

FollowsClosely

dougts said:

... is care one tiny bit about their customers and creating good customer service. the alternative is lazy, going through the motions kind of management...

Wouldn't that be nice.

1265

Does the LEGO ban apply to buying multiple copies of an item at the same or different LEGO stores using one's VIP membership account? I ask because I purchased two - store limit - of the B-Wings the morning of the sale, and than, my wife purchased two more of the B-wings - using my VIP account - later in the day while at a different LEGO store. I guess she felt I needed two more.

Brickarmor

I think all the hysteria over banning needs to chill a bit. Let the dust from the Fourth settle and we'll see what's what. Folks are kinda treating TLG like some cantankerous Big Brother because of a few comments and anecdotes. The moral of this manufactured crisis is simply don't tinker with quantity restrictions.

starwarfan77

it seems to me that people are either being extra paranoid and/or its likely i don't have a clear picture about attitude of lego towards general hobbist/reseller and/or reseller only. without resellers lego would not have inflated market it currently has. :). its a symbiotic relationship. one is feeding into other. just my perspective.

having said that lego might be trying to cut down on deep pocketed buyers who are ordering like 5 each 10 times with different account and credit card= 50b-wing sets at the discounted price. or trying to hoard into discounts.

i don't think they will deny anybody who has placed their order in legitimate way. they are simply a business so they would want to sale more units at a profit. if b-wing at $100 does not give them profit then they were doing that to move units/space like lot of other members here pointed out. now obviously their intent is to spread the set to as many people as possible. normal people/family won't need 5 sets of b-wing :). plus its an implied restriction that 5 limit = 5 limit per house.(however way you want to put it) :) just my belief. now we can all argue about being specific and etc.. its not spelled out. :D

having said that for argument sake, if target/walmart were to pick up B-wings at that discounted price with their volume discount will any of us get to touch any of sales or lego sets? so, them cracking down on people who are trying to play the system .. i fully support it.

i feel that they will try to extend this shipping as far out as possible :) by lingering those multiple unit orders. i think they are sending the first one out and delay the rest of the other b-wing orders and let it sit there :) until so called specified date when they are fine with sending the higher number of sets into the market.

if those orders are form resellers who wanted to make quick bucks in short time probably will be disappointed because i feel that they will extend this shipping to end of june to early july at the earliest.

for the sake of disclosure, i have my first unit of B-wing probably arriving by next week. they send it via federal express and from MS. takes whole freaking 4 business days to get anything from lego. and the second one back-ordered. they can send that to me anytime :D i am not in hurry. if they don't send me the second one then that's fine with me either but from next time i will be raiding one of the six lego stores that is within 45 minutes my locale :D. to add i will ask my parents and bride to go to the others and pick up as many as they can :P at the 50% discount :P. and i will turn my infant into lego hoarding maniac to raid on sales at the fifth lego store :P

Pitfall69

There is no easy solution, and yes there is common sense. The problem is; not every Lego store is the same. While a limit of 5 would work well for a store in a big city, but smaller stores with not as much stock will get sold out too quick. The managers should act accordingly, but that doesn't always happen. Having good consumer common sense helps as well. Don't assume that you will get what you want if you arrive later than anyone else. Even if the store says they have 100's of them.

starwarfan77

@Pitfall69
my disclosure was in jest :D .... not going to turn over to the dark side... :D :D

Pitfall69

I'm just babbling as usual. Sometimes I make good points by accident :)

scotty12

After 2 days of waiting in "Customer Service" yesterday my 1rst order went to "In Process" and the 2nd order went to "Backordered". Now this evening I get confirmation emails that BOTH are being sent and one should be arriving Thursday. Go Figure.
And on another kinda-funny odd note...the 1rst package was processed thru Fed-Ex at 8:37am and it will be delivered next Tuesday but the 2nd package was processed at 9:30am and will be delivered on Thursday (2 days)!

Basta

I really don’t think this was some plan by TLG to sniff out resellers (Although they probably have some interesting info on some of their customers now). 5 was the limit because they had a tone of these and they came to the conclusion that 5 would be the number to make sure they sell whatever number they had predetermined that they needed to clear. Sure they may have discussed a 30% discount and a limit of 3 or something similar but they probably did not want to take a risk of having surplus B-wings.

What they should have done was given a B-Wing away (or 75% off) with every order of the new x-wing. That would have made things interesting. :P

MorkMan

Strangely - mine shows that it is on it's way. And I ordered it right after they came back in stock (and showed that delivery would be later this month). That's better than I expected. I'm thinking that all the cancelled orders freed up stock for those of us in the second batch of orders?

CCC

seonadancing said:

I would like the store manager to come out 10 minutes before the store opens and ask the people in line if they're there for the B-wing. I think the manager knows how many he has in stock and just give a number to the people that are in line so they can get at least 1 B-wing. When all the people in line has gotten theirs, everyone else can buy more. The manager cannot assume that there will be another 50 people who will be looking for the set the rest of the day, and limit just 1 set per person.

Another solution (instore) is that each person gets one per transaction and they are kept behind the desk so you cannot hoard them stopping others getting them. If the buyer wants more, they go to the back of the queue. It creates a "fair" distribution for those that get there early enough yet allows people to get as many as they want if they are willing to wait.

Same thing can be done online, with waiting periods of 1 hour (6 hours, whatever) between orders. Of course, it would mean a more sophisticated solution from lego which is unlikely.

monkeyhanger

CCC said:

seonadancing said:

I would like the store manager to come out 10 minutes before the store opens and ask the people in line if they're there for the B-wing. I think the manager knows how many he has in stock and just give a number to the people that are in line so they can get at least 1 B-wing. When all the people in line has gotten theirs, everyone else can buy more. The manager cannot assume that there will be another 50 people who will be looking for the set the rest of the day, and limit just 1 set per person.

Another solution (instore) is that each person gets one per transaction and they are kept behind the desk so you cannot hoard them stopping others getting them. If the buyer wants more, they go to the back of the queue. It creates a "fair" distribution for those that get there early enough yet allows people to get as many as they want if they are willing to wait.

Same thing can be done online, with waiting periods of 1 hour (6 hours, whatever) between orders. Of course, it would mean a more sophisticated solution from lego which is unlikely.

Sounds like the meat and cheese counter at morrisons, "take a number" - nowt wrong with that system when the double dipper has to take a new number to get their second set etc.

monkeyhanger

Huge box just arrived at work, how big is the Rancor set? About 1/3 of the size of the shipping box I would guess - I could get an IS into it. The new box is a lot more subtle about it's contents, maybe boxes plastered with Lego logos have been getting opened in the post before now?

woony2

^ I don't remember any of my [email protected] boxes being delivered with Lego logos on the outside. Tends to be a bit obvious whats in them though when you pick it up and move them.

111ins

^^ read the disclaimer on the top of the inner flap, lets you know why the box is plain... I think they have been like that for quite a while

ISDAvenger

While seeing the logo on the box is rather cool, I do prefer the discretion...considering where my current box has to travel too.

111ins said:

^^ read the disclaimer on the top of the inner flap, lets you know why the box is plain... I think they have been like that for quite a while

monkeyhanger

Not seeing any disclaimer - what should it say?

111ins

basically that since you quite likely have purchased the LEGO as a present, they do not want kids coming home to see a big box plastered with their logo to give away the potential secret.

AvengerDr

hantot said:

anyone in the UK who ordered via TRU US got any updates as of yet? My Wife ordered it for me so i'm blind to any emails or changes of status

I also ordered it but I didn't get any further email after the order acknowledgment.

meyerc13

starwarfan77 said:

i don't think they will deny anybody who has placed their order in legitimate way.

Tell that to LFT: http://www.bricksetforum.com/discussion/10381/banned-from-buying-from-lego-sh#latest

Pitfall69

Does everyone like my Han Solo Hoth Promo figures? I'm very mad.

FollowsClosely

Pitfall69 said:

Does everyone like my Han Solo Hoth Promo figures? I'm very mad.

My boys will enjoy the spinners, and I would have just sold the figure anyhow. so I wouldn't mind. I am sure Lego will ship some out to you if you complain.

Pitfall69

UPDATE: I called and they are shipping out the Hans. These are promotional items that most everyone should get with their order. I will give them to my nephew and 3 year old I guess. I honestly only ordered the B-Wings to get the Han Solos.

Brickarmor

@pitfall69 I just opened 3 of my orders (no Bwings) and EVERY one of them had that Speedor set AND the Han figure!! O_o

Everyone, go check your mail.

Legoboy

@Pitfall69 - I'm in disbelief. TLG have lost it!

I'm sure you were meant to be helping someone else as well weren't you?

Edit:- Good to see they've sorted it out. Surprised they had stock.

margot

Yay speedorz!

Pitfall69

FollowsClosely said:

Pitfall69 said:

Does everyone like my Han Solo Hoth Promo figures? I'm very mad.

My boys will enjoy the spinners, and I would have just sold the figure anyhow. so I wouldn't mind. I am sure Lego will ship some out to you if you complain.

I won't be selling the minifigures. Even if I was, that would be $40 that I could have had.

Problem solved anyway, so I am not mad anymore. At least by them sending me 2 Hans, that tells me there are plenty left over from the promo.

CCC

^ And you had a decent promotion on the days too. I dread to think how many are left over in Europe.

truk

Well, I guess we know how Chima is selling now.

I got one too and thought it was a happy mistake, but it seems like they just had a bunch of extras. No matter though, free Lego is alway a win!

Bandit

Lol crazy. So I guess it wasn't a sale to get rid of extra b-wing stock, it was a sale disguised as getting rid of excess b-wing stock to get rid of excess Speedorz stock.

Can we all send our Speedorz to @kevbags to give to the charities along with everything else? That would be awesome - he might have 500 to give out if we did that. :)

rocao

Wow! They're just giving out $20 sets from what was supposed to be their hottest theme of the year? If that's an indication of how Chima is doing, some people at LEGO must be feeling very uncomfortable right now.

Cheeka

CCC said:

^ And you had a decent promotion on the days too. I dread to think how many are left over in Europe.

An overflowing box behind the counter in my local store (Sheffield, UK). I turned on the charm and did everything short of directly asking if I could have one, but to no avail - not surprising I suppose, as I was only buying a small PAB tub and the assistant hasn't served me for any of my more extravagant purchases!

She was under the impression they'd be available with another promotion but no indication of what or when.

Edited: also discussed the US B-wing discount - unsurprisingly, they barely shifted any over the weekend, with people saying they weren't prepared to fork out when it was available with such a big reduction in the US.