Series 10 - getting more than 16 at a time

LegoFanTexas

pillpod said:

You are preventing multiple customers from having a pleasant experience at the store; they might not come back because they know there's some guy who buys up all the stock. If I ran a store, I'd rather have 15 consistent and paying customers than 1 who buys a lot with the intent to return the following week.

^ This puts into words what I was feeling.

If there was no intent to return, I wouldn't care, I'd be happy to sell boxes of them, it is the fact that the buyer plans to return the undesireables that causes the problem.

tamamahm

Ronny said:

What are your thoughts on the recently-imposed limitation of allowing customers to purchase 16 minifigs per customer per day?
-Ronny

Recently imposed??
This has been around for quite a while at my store.

TheLoneTensor

rocao said:

Returns without receipts are also allowable under policy, and merchandise returned that was not bought from the store is not expressly prohibited. You probably just opened up another can of worms because there are many that disapprove of this practice.

The key factor here is that (in this hypothetical scenario) it's not that it wasn't bought from the same store, it wasn't even bought from the same company. Buying on Amazon and returning to a Lego store? That's borderline fraud.

CCC

If you are in a lego store anyway, why not just tell the staff that you want to feel to get a comlpete set. If they say no, say OK and don't buy from them. If you've paid for them, I reckon most staff will loan you a pair of scissors to open them there and then. And if you did accidently get a duplicate, I'm sure if you have been open and honest about feeling them and they've seen you mess up, they'd let you buy another couple to comlpete the set. They will probably even help you do the feeling.

madforLEGO

I can now understand why 'Do not use near or in water or shower' has to be put on a hair dryer.

This type of comment and position appear to me to be an unethical abuse of a return policy.
You are buying the product, when you buy the product you are agreeing to keep it and return policies are only meant for a defective or unwanted item (Ie Gift to you).
It is not meant to act like a rental agreement where you are to borrow the item for a weekend IMO.
and I know people love to hide behind the 'well if it does not say so in the fine print' as a reason to act that way, fine, but then do not be surprised or taken aback by the reaction you may get for such activity.

Ronny

tensor said:

rocao said:

Returns without receipts are also allowable under policy, and merchandise returned that was not bought from the store is not expressly prohibited. You probably just opened up another can of worms because there are many that disapprove of this practice.

The key factor here is that (in this hypothetical scenario) it's not that it wasn't bought from the same store, it wasn't even bought from the same company. Buying on Amazon and returning to a Lego store? That's borderline fraud.

It may be your opinion, but it's definitely not LEGO's.
LEGO will accept their products back, no matter where you bought them.
They don't limit it to purchases made from any of their outlets.
I actually had to do it once, and I specifically asked the associate if it's OK.
He said "yep", and gave me a gift card in exchange.

TheLoneTensor

"Cape does not enable user to fly."

Btw, who uses scissors to open minifig packs? If you start a tear at either side of the bottom of the keyhole they pop right open. Basically act as if you're tearing the keyhole apart.

Of course, some people might want to keep the packaging nicer, in which case scissors are a plus.

Legoboy

Ronny said:

@tensor, return them to the LEGO store, which is within their return policy guidelines, actually.

I know a few LEGO employees in both head office and stores. I had a conversation with a couple of them just last week about this type of behaviour. There policy without a receipt is actually there for unwanted Brand Store purchases. You know, like unwanted presents from relatives for example. Where people have attempted to return items to a Brand Store that has another store's price label on it, they refuse it.

The staff can't stand people like you. Staff have been asked to leave for 'feeling' cmfs in the past and cannot stand it when dozens are bought only for a sixteen less to be returned the following day. Let me know which store you intend to return to and when and I'll make sure they give you the deserved welcome, since "it's within guidelines".

Boy, I do hope you didn't receive a VIP keychain!!

jasor

@Ronny -- My explanation is simple. Lego = "Play Well" That's not scooping up 100% product, digesting what you want, and then dumping the rest back in-store. Maybe I'd feel different if I was just AFOL...but part of the collecting is watching a CFOL feel for the very figures you are gaming out of the system.

That's my humble opinion, anyway.

Lovaquero

The sad thing is that LEGO has created this problem themselves by the way they sell the CMFs. I'm sure that LEGO consided that there are people who will abuse the system, but they had hoped that such folk were a smaller group than they really are. That wasn't the case, as the OP's attitude toward it indicates. Now there is the 16 limit.

It's an unsolvable problem, unless LEGO wants to take a more severe hit to sales than it can tolerate (e.g. limits with CMF in cardboard boxes). There will always be folks who find ways "to live within the letter of the law/rule, but violate the spirit of the law/rule". And then try to justify it to the rest of us who chose not to act that way.

The attempted justification is guilt/shame, no matter how it is spun. If they truly did not care, they wouldn't bother responding to anyone who called out the behavior...

The OP clearly thinks that their actions are OK and s/he doesn't really care what others think about it, except to try to justify it. It only becomes annoying when folks that do this then try to pretend that they really don't know why policies are created, such as "16 CFM limit per customer".

My answers to the OP original questions:

1 - I heartlily applaud the restriction cited. It slows down folks like the OP that make the experience a little less enjoyable for the rest of us.
2 - No suggestion that I care to share. The OP seems to be smart enough to find loop holes in the system, so I'm sure that s/he will find away to continue to do so without the help of anyone here.

jockosjungle

The other issue is that you're returning the ones you don't want for resale, how would a child feel when they get lots of the same lame figures, because someone returned all the naff ones.

Bottom line is you're abusing the system and the Lego returns policy which is actually much more generous than it legally has to be. The policy isn't designed for this.

Whilst you can do it for now, do you really think a store manager isn't questioning the wisdom of it to head office?

R

chrisdojo

Spend the time in the store feeling. You may get to know employees and the manager. Can be useful :)

samiam391

chrisdojo said:

Spend the time in the store feeling. You may get to know employees and the manager. Can be useful :)

You'll also get to know the CMFs a little bit. ;-)

samiam391

This runs in parallel with a thread posted yesterday, where someone was following store policy only.. but, in my opinion, was not doing the moral thing.

Can't state this enough, do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

I don't think you'd like to show up at a LEGO store and find that there are no CMFs, because some other adult came before you and had taken them all. Only to come back a few days later and open up 16 packets all of the same 2 figures.

TheLoneTensor

Lovaquero said:

...It's an unsolvable problem...

They could package the CMFs in something that is unfeelable, like a box, or a semi-box like below.

Legoboy

Lovaquero said:

It's an unsolvable problem....

Package the parts in a small low-cost box before bagging. The sort of box the rubber bands come in but deeper.

Lovaquero

tensor said:

Lovaquero said:

...It's an unsolvable problem...

They could package the CMFs in something that is unfeelable, like a box, or a semi-box like below.

I agree. You must have caught my post in the middle of the edit when I indicated the same basic idea... ;-)

Legoboy

@tensor - you sod! Ninja'd :-)

However, bagging the cheap box is probably more cost effective than a printed, funny shaped, decorative box and considerably more tamper proof.

jasor

@tensor -- ah, but part of the FUN is feeling and finding.

LegoFanTexas

The idea of the CMFs is a good one, until a kid gets too many of the same figures in a row.

Young children don't understand why they can't have the 1 figure they want, the whole thing seems hard to them, and it doesn't have to be.

It would be nice if LEGO would sell the whole thing as a set in a box for those people who just want the collection of 16 figures. For those who enjoy the hunt, more power to you...

Yellowcastle

rocao said:

Yellowcastle said:

I will freely admit that I returned 20 S2 to TRU back in the day but it felt wrong to me and I haven't done it since.

I think I know why you're a terrible poker player ;)

OMG, we're taking this outside. ;o)

leppg

Ronny said:

So...my initial question was what are you guys doing when you need to buy a set of 16, and I think that the consensus is to try and feel the ones you want in the store, then buy. Cool.

I may do that, but I think I'm more likely to buy a large quantity online via Amazon or eBay, and then return the ones I don't want to the store. I don't see any issue with returning sealed items to the store.

Buying online is better for me anyway, now that I think about it. It's usually cheaper, and there's no added tax.

Thanks for the great discussion, folks.

Wouldn't this somehow be illegal? Not sure how it works in the states but you're basically returning something you didn't pay taxes on for the return price plus taxes. Sounds like fraud but I'm not a lawyer.

AnthonyC173

Ronny said:

Jasor,
Could you please explain how is this abusing the return policy, and why it is against the spirit of LEGO in general?

I don't see it that way, and want to understand your opinion better.

Why must you go buy a whole box and try finding it at home?? why not just do it right there. If you are embarrass then u should just quit lego altogether. if its only for comfort then ok i guess... but buying in bulk like that leaves very little left for other people.
example i went to get series 9 and than sold out ): (should've called in advance as i dont live too close to a lego store...)

but anyways its all on a moral scale as some people scale points more towards the right or left. we can argue all we want but w/e
also i heard they only limit even in store to 16 per cust.

shannon26

Ronny said:

My attitude is lousy, yet what I do is within the guidelines. Interesting.
The store manager can't overrule LEGO's corporate policy, which allows anyone to return any model that's currently being sold.

The problem is what you "do" isn't within Lego's guidelines, because Lego's guidelines say you can only purchase 16 at a time, lets just say its a exception to there guidelines, not going against there guidelines.

As for buying from another retailer and returning, I am not familiar with Lego's policies for [email protected] since I'm from Australia and have no retail presence here, but sure if it doesn't "break" any of there policies then I assume you could do it, doesn't take away the fact that its a lousy move and steps like this go a great way towards them getting rid of a return policy which the majority of people use for "legitimate" reasons, so when you can return anything in a few years dont whinge to us about it. Here's hoping there returns policy works in reverse and you can only return 16 a day (-:"

As to answer your main point, on why this is so wrong yada yada (which as been answered here already) What happens when little jimmy wants to go to the store to buy some mini figs and his parents finally let him after saving up all is pocket money, $1 a week. Only to go there and be told we are sold out because some guy bought 4 boxes, ohh but come back tomorrow for all his leftovers he will return. Sure they could "make" more but then they would be making less of there other products and will eventually end up with to many minifigs in there company after ll the "returns" are bought back. I could go on with more scenarios but it was covered on the last page anyhow.

Lastly, I know I may seem like I'm coming across a bit strong, but this general sense of entitlement that more and more people have these days just bug me. Remember entertainment is a privilege that only some get to enjoy not a right.

Si_UKNZ

You can usually buy a full set of 16 on ebay for RRP plus about £2-3 postage. If your time is so valuable then spend £2-3 to save a massive chunk of it as well as some petrol (and it doesn't involve ruining anyone else's minifig purchases either).

margot

samiam391 said:

This runs in parallel with a thread posted yesterday, where someone was following store policy only.. but, in my opinion, was not doing the moral thing.

If you are talking about me then you are way off. I emailed Lego to let them know they sent me extra items. Really immoral of me.

LukeSkywalker

Si_Dorking_Surrey_UK said:

You can usually buy a full set of 16 on ebay for RRP plus about £2-3 postage. If your time is so valuable then spend £2-3 to save a massive chunk of it as well as some petrol (and it doesn't involve ruining anyone else's minifig purchases either).

This is a really good suggestion, the only problem I have with it is that these eBay sellers have probably attained these complete sets by doing what the OP is doing, so by buying from ebay sellers you could be encouraging the buy/return system, thus creating a vicious cycle. ;) But it's probably the better of two evils.

legoprods

I hate when a Lego related conversation ends up being a moral test.

And I hate to be sometimes just a little bit concerned about what I write here so it doesn't end up "hurting someones feelings".

Legoboy

^^ I'd agree, only those buying dozens to sell as full sets on Ebay will be returning very few I'd have thought. Rather than return the few odd figs, I'd imagine they'd sell them individually on Ebay also or try and feel out the missing figs to make up the sets. It's not worth the hardcore seller's time to keep running back and forth to the stores.

Could be wrong of course as I don't have that mindset, but just how I'd imagine it playing out.

^ Don't you worry too much - I'm ugly and I know it! I swear my wife's blind! ;-)

LukeSkywalker

^Yeah that would be a more acceptable system, to sell off the less desirables online too, I hope they do this. :)

^^Nobody should have to feel concerned about expressing opinions, we live in a world of free speech here, it's wonderful! :)

jasor

People are gonna do what they are gonna do, and most folks that log onto the forum have lots of opinions :D

Community is multiple POV's ,and some dont match...especially a collecting community. Different strokes for different folks. Some are in it for the love, some for the money, and some for the love of money...I say, let the opinions flow.

Give me one reason buying multiple boxes, and then returning the rest is a good practice, or something that befits the Lego community positively. I'm really interested.

Beav

Personally, I enjoy the time I spend feeling up the packets with my missus, finding that chicken man or Genie, occasionally getting a rogue one you were sure was a waiter, but turned out to be another cop.

I love that part of it, gives it some fun. I'd find it boring to sit at home, part out the ones I wanted then return the box of rejects, I'd feel really awkward about it.

SilentMode

I buy boxes (or as many figures as I can get) for myself, so I can easily get multiples of figures I want. Whatever I don't want gets traded or sold.

rocao

^ When CMFs were in their infancy, I thought my wife might enjoy the hunt and helping me identify them. Instead, she looked at me like I was crazy :P

TheLoneTensor

jasor said:

@tensor -- ah, but part of the FUN is feeling and finding.

I could not agree more! It's like a game to see how fast I can identify em.

And to think, we used to use dots for these things, pshaw.

Pitfall69

Beav said:

Personally, I enjoy the time I spend feeling up the packets with my missus, finding that chicken man or Genie, occasionally getting a rogue one you were sure was a waiter, but turned out to be another cop.

I love that part of it, gives it some fun. I'd find it boring to sit at home, part out the ones I wanted then return the box of rejects, I'd feel really awkward about it.

I hope my waiter doesn't come to my table with handcuffs;)

Pitfall69

I only buy boxes now, although I had to resort to feeling to complete another set of Series 9. I'll just trade or sell off the extras. That's the best way to do it.

Zeya

My new preferred method is to buy a sealed box off a foreign Amazon site (usually amazon.fr) and then I cut open all the packets. I put together my 16 that I want, and then try my best to get 2-3 coworkers the ones they want. I keep the extras and eat that cost; I plan to sell them later.

I've come to dislike the return/rebuy method. Another method would be just to buy full sets of 16 off eBay or BL. That costs a bit of a premium, but then again you spend less time with purchasing/fondling/returning the things.

TheLoneTensor

^like because you used the word fondling, which made me smile :)

Nintendawg

Ethics don't matter if there's no law specifically spelling it out?!? It's sad to see afols stooping to such levels. Then buying on Ebay to return to the Lego store? It just gets worse!

Many have already explained in detail some reasons why this is wrong. People like you force retailers to be more and more stringent with return policies, thus hurting the other 98% of customers that play fair.

It is partially Lego's fault that this happens. I must admit I felt like slapping my forehead when I saw the Mr Gold figure complete with uniquely shaped top hat it really makes me wonder what Lego were thinking. Up until the newest series you could always get the sets of 16 fairly cheaply. But with the new box distribution (only 2 per box on the rarest figs) the prices have gone up for sets, because you now only get two full sets a box.

I don't have the patience to do instore feeling so I now just buy the ones I want individually on Bricklink.

EKSam

I tried the " feeling" method at my local Fred meyer once, stood there all of 2 minutes feeling embarrassed, came home with the viking woman minfig from series 8...YET AGAIN:-))
I realized, I was not a good groper and gave up on my fledgling dream of being a minifig feeler. Now I just buy randomly and keep them, it has resulted in some doubles but thats o.k. I am not that much into the CMFs( sour grapes) :-))

Pitfall69

tensor said:

^like because you used the word fondling, which made me smile :)

Have you ever stopped to look at the facial expressions of people that are fondling the packages? They look like they are happily constipated.

I hate to see what I look like. My wife laughs at me.

samiam391

margot said:

samiam391 said:

This runs in parallel with a thread posted yesterday, where someone was following store policy only.. but, in my opinion, was not doing the moral thing.

If you are talking about me then you are way off. I emailed Lego to let them know they sent me extra items. Really immoral of me.

@margot- Yes, I was. And sarcasm detected :-)

I believe from the other thread (which doesn't need to spill into this one), is that you were planning on keeping the sets, even if LEGO wanted them back (even though it was a simple honest mistake).

Unless your opinion and decision has changed since then, I'd still the same as I did above. We all have different morals though, so to each his own. :-)

prof1515

LegoFanTexas said:

Until the store manager says no. Your general attitude is pretty lousy in general, but I know such people exist in the world, but most aren't so open and flagrant about their selfish "I don't give a darn about anyone but me" attitude.

To each their own. Like I said, if I was the store manager, I would not allow such use of the return policy, that isn't what it is for.

Well said.

Pitfall69

Don't we have enough of this going on in other threads

"Mirror never tells a lie
The truth is always there
You can see it right before your eyes
It's the one you'll have to bare"

pharmjod

I can add for what it is worth that when I used to work for Walgreens, they had it calculated that every return to the store (even something that was able to be resold for RRP) cost the company something like $0.17 or so. I don't remember the exact amount. Essentially they lose money on every return even if they turn around and resell it. My point is that returns just for the sake of returns aren't without consequences for the company. That said, they have those policies in place and to a degree expect some loss. Just don't make the argument that it is the same as standing there and buying your 3 sets in one trip. It absolutely isn't.

Basta

The Gold CMF in S10 will make this type of thing even more prevalent IMO.

I agree that buying boxes and then returning what you don’t want is bad form and is something I have never done, but I also know people who hate AFOL’s fondling packs and taking all the desirable figures, so that’s something to think about.

I do wish that TLG would change the box distribution back to 3 full sets, then have only one extra of the 12 most popular. I know people like to army build and all but for those who don’t fondle its annoying constantly getting the same figures. The change to 2 full sets in series 9 is what started me feeling for each CMF I wanted, with series 8 I got the first 12 without having to feel, I got some duplicates but not too many.

Thanos75

I was out shopping with my little girls one day and saw a guy feeling up a freshly opened up box of CMF's....I slowly worked my way over next to him...waited for him to get about half way through the box and then reached over and grabbed a big handful out of the unchecked ones. You should have seen the look on his face...priceless....I then handed the packs to my girls and just smiled

Pitfall69

Yeah, I usually don't let people move in while I'm in the middle of fondling enjoyment ;)

VaderX

Lets take it easy with the little Timmy stuff guys. The returned packs will get sold to other customers.

TLG uses blind packaging to milk even more money out of customers pockets.

I can't even count how many kids I hear saying "I have three of those already..." The parents are just as angry that there is no pack fig identifier.
It's not fun for children to spend their pocket money only to receive the same lame fig they already have.

If you believe that someone simply returning a few sealed bags is as a low as it gets, clearly you have not bought a resealed CMF pack that the fig inside was not even from the current series packaging (Guess who found this out the hard way...S5 in S7 pack)

I now buy many (45-50) and return unwanted figs later after properly inspecting I have FACTORY sealed packs. Yes I guess I'm one of those terrible people who just wants a few complete sets without all the gimmicks.