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wagnerml2: Looking for input on an Ebay Auction

wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
edited February 2013 in Buying & Selling Topics
I have a used #3222 up for auction this week. Two people got into a huge bidding war with 3 days left in the auction and drove it up to about twice what I thought it would go for. Here is the link. I am leary as to whether the winner will pay. I sold for years on ebay and never had this happen. Anyone ever seen something lie this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150994562756?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

Comments

  • julian977julian977 UKMember Posts: 65
    Not for lego, but yes I have for another hobby!. A couple of sets of aftermarket decals for 1/24 model rally car kits. I had not long bought them and changed model plans, and as far as I knew they were still available to order from the manufacturer or via a good model shop, so my starting price was about 75% of rrp. They both went into a bidding war between 2 bidders over several days and went for four times what I paid for them.
  • JamesJTJamesJT Member Posts: 440
    Quick buy another for $50 and give the loser a 2nd chance offer.
  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 622
    edited February 2013
    Good luck with him coming through with payment.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    ^^ HA!
  • TechnicNickTechnicNick Berkshire, UKMember Posts: 277
    Don't worry too much. A while ago, I sold an 8888 book, not in particularly great condition, for three times what a mint one is worth. The winner paid up and was happy.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    Yes, had that happen, yes the winner paid.
  • samiam391samiam391 A Log Cabin in KY, United StatesMember Posts: 4,235
    @wagnerml2

    Yes, I've had it happen before and it was actually a completely flawless transaction. With buy it nows all over the place for $130 on eBay, two silly bidders bid my auction all the way up to $270ish (Set #7153). Buyer paid after auction end, I shipped it out. End of transaction.

    I never understood what was going through their head... but considering I made double what I expected, I wasn't going to ask questions :-)
  • cardgeniuscardgenius Member Posts: 153
    Nice. I love it when this happens. If the bidders have high feedback you'll most likely get paid. If they have really low feedback then you might get stuck with a non paying bidder.

    I had this happen recently when I sold my first gen iPad. Should have sold for around $200 but it went for $320 after 2 people duked it out. Got paid the same night too.
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 813
    Sure, it happens. Had a diecast model car go for £46 yet I had one on bin @ £10.99 @ the same time. They paid. Anyone who has been on ebay for a long time will have seen a few absolutely crazy things happen.
  • Gavin83Gavin83 Member Posts: 251

    Nice. I love it when this happens. If the bidders have high feedback you'll most likely get paid. If they have really low feedback then you might get stuck with a non paying bidder.

    I had this happen recently when I sold my first gen iPad. Should have sold for around $200 but it went for $320 after 2 people duked it out. Got paid the same night too.

    Feedback doesn't really make much of a difference as you can't leave negative feedback for buyers, although I do agree that someone who has been around for a while is likely to be more honest.

    It's 50/50. It is crazy but some people do pay well over the odds, either they get tunnel vision and don't look at the other auctions or they made a mistake and feel they should pay. I've had people pay for items well over their value before. I've also had people who haven't paid and completely ignored all contact.

    Good luck though, it's always nice when it happens.
  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,356
    If you look at completed listings you will see that a sealed 3222 sells for between $75 and $120. So I don't think it is out of the realm of getting paid. However, they might go at it some more and bid it for twice it's worth. People aren't very bright sometimes.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    Just a follow up for anyone who cares. This auction closed Friday night and 30 minutes before, the high bidder informed me that he would not be paying. I told him that he was required to pay, but his response was that ebay has set the system up so that as a seller there really wasn't anything I could do. I then had no choice but to cancel his bid. Problem was at that point was that the item was then knocked down to an amount that the other bidder in the war first bid. The Auction was within 12 hours so I could not end it. Luckily the auction went back up and the winning bidder has emailed me to indicate that he would pay.

    Problem with this is that the Bidder was correct. As a seller, I was stuck. I couldn't cancel the auction, If I let it go to close, the second highest bidder was under no obligation to pay a second chance offer. I canceled the bid and the item got reduced to about 30% of what it should have gone for. Had it not goten bidded back up, I would have taken a loss. First time I have ever experienced this, but ebay needs to close the loop

    One other thought was that this seller only had 18 feedbacks, but had a huge grasp on abay policy, more so than you would expect from a casual ebayer. I was wondering if this could perhaps have been a seller with a dummy account that he used to bid up competing items way up. Either way, this person is by far the most unethical ebayer I have ever encountered.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    Use Buy It Now with instant payment required. Problem solved.
    dragonhawk
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    You should be able to report the bidder in question to eBay.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    ^^ I did that. Also forwarded the message stream. If I have time, I may call them. At this point its more the principle of the matter.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,112
    wagnerml2 said:

    Just a follow up for anyone who cares. This auction closed Friday night and 30 minutes before, the high bidder informed me that he would not be paying. I told him that he was required to pay, but his response was that ebay has set the system up so that as a seller there really wasn't anything I could do. I then had no choice but to cancel his bid. Problem was at that point was that the item was then knocked down to an amount that the other bidder in the war first bid. The Auction was within 12 hours so I could not end it. Luckily the auction went back up and the winning bidder has emailed me to indicate that he would pay.

    Problem with this is that the Bidder was correct. As a seller, I was stuck. I couldn't cancel the auction, If I let it go to close, the second highest bidder was under no obligation to pay a second chance offer. I canceled the bid and the item got reduced to about 30% of what it should have gone for. Had it not goten bidded back up, I would have taken a loss. First time I have ever experienced this, but ebay needs to close the loop

    One other thought was that this seller only had 18 feedbacks, but had a huge grasp on abay policy, more so than you would expect from a casual ebayer. I was wondering if this could perhaps have been a seller with a dummy account that he used to bid up competing items way up. Either way, this person is by far the most unethical ebayer I have ever encountered.

    I would just refuse to cancel his bid, then let him eat a Non Payer flag, which will hurt him once he gets two or more. I'm willing to start over again and re-list rather than let some bad bidder bully me around.

    kylejohnson11cardgeniusmressin
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    I wonder if it was a tactic to put people off bidding on the auction using a dummy account so he could get the item cheaper using his/her real account?
    y2josh
  • Gavin83Gavin83 Member Posts: 251
    dougts said:


    I would just refuse to cancel his bid, then let him eat a Non Payer flag, which will hurt him once he gets two or more. I'm willing to start over again and re-list rather than let some bad bidder bully me around.

    In that situation can they not leave negative feedback though?

  • cloaked7cloaked7 Member Posts: 1,448
    Mistakes happen. The auction is not a binding contract as I see it. I have had buyers not pay. I have had them ask if I would cancel their bid. And, I have made mistakes as a seller too. By accident I have sold items I didn't have, because I miscounted my inventory. I have sold an item then went to box it up and found it was damaged. As a buyer I just refunded the person's payment, and after explaining the buyer's understood.

    I wouldn't get too worked out about. I know it's a bummer and a hassle, but as a wise philosopher once said - "Don't sweat the small stuff." When it comes down to it, we shouldn't sweat the big stuff either. If I could just learn that myself. :-)
    wagnerml2mressin
  • GordehGordeh Member Posts: 10
    I've had this in the past. There is an easy form to fill out for a non paying bidder. The advantage of this is that sellers can setup their auctions so that anyone with a couple of non paying bidder marks on their account cannot bid. It helps a little.
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,284
    cloaked7 said:

    Mistakes happen. The auction is not a binding contract as I see it.

    From eBay's bid retraction policy: http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/invalid-bid-retraction.html

    "A bid is a binding contract that's active until an auction-style listing ends. Once you place a bid, you need to pay for the item if you're the winning bidder. You're not allowed to retract bids to manipulate the bidding process, like trying to find out the maximum bid of the current high bidder or to find out the reserve price."

    "Allowed
    It's only OK to retract a bid if:
    - You accidentally enter the wrong amount, like entering $99.50 instead of $9.95. If you do, you need to enter the correct bid right away.
    - The item description changed significantly after you placed your bid. For example, the seller updated information about the item's features or condition.
    - You can't reach the seller. For example, you sent the seller an email and it comes back undeliverable, or you tried calling the seller and the phone number doesn't work.

    Not allowed
    Examples of when you can't retract a bid:
    - You changed your mind about buying the item.
    - You wanted to find out the reserve price.
    - You wanted to find out how high another buyer bid on an item.
    - You only wanted one item but placed bids on multiple identical items. You should only bid on multiple items if you intend to buy all of them."
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    Gavin83 said:

    dougts said:


    I would just refuse to cancel his bid, then let him eat a Non Payer flag, which will hurt him once he gets two or more. I'm willing to start over again and re-list rather than let some bad bidder bully me around.

    In that situation can they not leave negative feedback though?

    Once a Non Paying Bidder case is settled, neither party can post any feedback on the eBay listing in question. This is a definite plus for the seller
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,284
    It makes sense but it's unfortunate for the seller that the bid reverts to the lowest bid price as if the retracting bidder never existed. In wagnerml2's case, he lost out on other potential bidders that withdrew interest once the price escalated.

    With only 30 minutes until auction end, I probably would not have allowed the bid retraction because it significantly altered the auction. He would not pay, I'd file a non-paying bidder, and all that is a nuisance, but the main result is that I wouldn't be forced to sell my item at a price that didn't have due course in a proper auction.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,112
    Gavin83 said:

    dougts said:


    I would just refuse to cancel his bid, then let him eat a Non Payer flag, which will hurt him once he gets two or more. I'm willing to start over again and re-list rather than let some bad bidder bully me around.

    In that situation can they not leave negative feedback though?

    not if they don't pay

  • oldtodd33oldtodd33 Denver 4800 miles to BillundMember Posts: 2,356
    I would definitely let the auction run out with that bidder at the top and file a non-paying bidder report to help get that account closed.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    He placed the bid days ago and left it until 30 mins before auction end to retract the bid, it doesn't add up to me.
  • cloaked7cloaked7 Member Posts: 1,448
    ^ Yup, not very logical. I can only assume that the bidder didn't think the item would have been bid up as high as it went and was simply wanting to outbid everyone. But, who knows.
  • legogregorslegogregors Member Posts: 402
    If the bidder controlled both accounts this would be very logical. I am very suspicious and would mention this to ebay. It really doesn't add up. Ignoring the "mistake" hurts everyone.
    kylejohnson11
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    The problem here is that it's likely the exact scenario @atkinsar was describing... especially given the number of unique bids placed between the same two users. So the guy likely had two accounts, ran up the price from a low point, turned off potential real bidders because the price was now too high and then got his bid cancelled so the price was now insanely low.

    The only thing that gives me pause is that most bidders who do this won't bother contacting you and will pull an 'entered wrong bid amount' retraction at the last minute. eBay may have rectified that loophole, though.
  • cloaked7cloaked7 Member Posts: 1,448
    Good points @rocao I misspoke and stand corrected.

    Technically the auction is legally binding, but in my experience the reality works out differently. If a seller doesn't want to pay they simply don't pay. True that they can only get away with that x many times, but their PayPal account isn't closed or funds automatically deducted. And, the seller can't leave them negative feedback. (That's fine, but personally I think a seller should get an eBay generated negative feedback if they don't pay.)

    And on the flip side, eBay is very slow to shut down sellers that are obviously selling items bought with stolen CC's, etc. I have experienced that as a buyer and it took months for eBay to stop the seller. That situation was made worse, because some buyers where OK with getting stolen goods at a discount, and other buyers we afraid to give the seller negative feedback (never understood that).
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    edited February 2013
    ^ Bidder cannot retract last minute bids. Seller may cancel them per bidder's request. Per the eBay policy link @rocao posted:
    When you retract the bid, we remove only your most recent bid. Bids you placed prior to the last 12 hours of the listing are not removed.
    I would report that bidder to eBay per this section from the same link:
    Your bids affect how other users bid for an item and the item's final selling price. We carefully investigate all bid retractions to determine whether they are appropriate and conform to the rules for buyers. Abuse of bid retractions can result in the suspension of your account.

    Bids retracted within the last 24 hours of a listing can be viewed as an example of shill bidding, which is a serious violation of eBay policy.
    If it is a mistake, no harms done. If it is a pattern and enough sellers report this bidder, s/he may get in trouble with eBay.



  • VaderXVaderX Member Posts: 220
    Oh eBay......
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    At the end of the day if some one does not want to pay they won't pay and there is not much that can be done. If an account does it multiple times eBay may take action.

    The same goes for a seller if you decide that you don't want to sell after the auction as long as you refund, eBay is basically fine with it. Obviously you can still get negative feedback and if you do this multiple times eBay will act.

    I had some one purchase an item just a couple of weeks ago and afterwards they sent me a message saying they "bid by mistake" and they didn't want the item. I could have got angry, but whats the point so I was polite and said "no worries these things happen", and I refunded. In this case eBay had an option for customer change of mind and I was refunded my fees.

    Obviously the scenario above about a bid retraction 30min before auction end is a little different and could possibly be open to abuse.
  • wagnerml2wagnerml2 Belleville, IllinoisMember Posts: 1,376
    ^^ I agree. The bid war happened with 3 days left in the auction. I posted the original message when there were still several days left in the auction. Had the bidder contacted me then, I would have felt differently. My anger came with the timing of the message and the I Don't Care attitude that was conveyed. Mistakes happen, heck buyers remorse happens. I have over a thousand transactions on Ebay and this was the first time I have ever had someone be this blatant about something. It was just very frustrating when, as a seller, I really had not option but to allow the auction to end with a winning bidder who screwed everything up and iformed me that he really didnt care.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,764
    edited February 2013
    ^ I wouldn't have retracted the bid due to the person's attitude, I would've let the auction run it's course. On the assumption that the reluctant buyer would not bid any more after messaging you, there was still always the chance of them being outbid, and if not, second chance to the next highest bidder was always an option. In cancelling their bid they don't have a non-payer's strike against their name and are free to do it to the next seller. When someone is apologetic or you get the impression that they may have made a genuine mistake then cancelling a bid is fine (and I have done so in the past for bidders on a few of my auctions), but the attitude of the person stinks in this case and possibly they were manipulating the auction to make it sell for less.
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