Cloud City

lando

Is the cloud city the one set to get is it the holy grail
Of Star Wars lego? It's on eBay for a small fortune.
Would love to buy this set but haven't got the funds to buy this as its so
Expensive! Is there any other sets out there from the Star Wars range which
Would be your grail of Star Wars ??

absolut3

I would say the UCS Millennium Falcon

FollowsClosely

Cloud city is not that interesting of a set, defiantly not the "holy grail". I agree with @absolut3, #10179 is king.

madforLEGO

I would say if they re-do the cloud city in the vein of the DS that is out now.. it may hit a 'legendary' status but price wise I think nothing will reach the UCS Falcon.. unless they do another UCS Falcon.

If you are talking about a set that is someone's 'grail' that is not measured price wise then that may change some peoples answers, as while I understand the scope of the Falcon, the price pretty much stops anyone that is a casual collector from obtaining it, unless someone is out of touch enough to throw on into a Garage sale bin.

lando

Just taken a look at the falcon ucs it is boss!
And I thought the cloud city was expensive.
is there any cool sets that are rare that go for a reasonable price?

madforLEGO

Well 'that rare' and 'that price' are pretty much exclusive to each other.. then again I would not call it rare it was limited at first, but then they made a non-limited version (not sure how many they made), it is just in addition to that, the die hard collectors, and speculators drove the price up to the ungodly amount it is now.
But that is just my opinion

hoyatables

The UCS Falcon is the ultimate Star Wars set and has to be the Holy Grail. Blows away even the Death Star (which I am building right now).

My understanding is that Cloud City is little more than a playset. Its value lies solely in the fact that there has been no remake, nor any smaller sets featuring the same minifigs. LEGO has remade just about every other set in the original trilogy except for Cloud City and Mos Eisley, so it is only a matter of time before they get back to Cloud City.

richo

It's actually quite a poor set, but it wasn't available widely and had some unique figures, so it's hard to get hold of. I am a big Star Wars fan and lose no sleep over not having it.

Renny

^ In my world the ucs X-Wing blows the death star away ;)

...unless we are talking about episode 6 :)

Seriously though I would think 10179 Falcon is the most sought after, and rightly so, set in the Star Wars theme. Cloud City is only popular because of the exclusive figures

samiam391

The only thing that would make Cloud City the holy grail of SW sets is if one of the small plastic cups included the set is the actual grail...

The set itself is horrendous, and probably one of the poorest constructed sets that LEGO has ever made. It was also priced at $99.99 upon its release in 2003, for a mere 705 pieces.

Considering that LEGO wasn't incredibly popular (slow uphill climb) at the time, not many people purchased this set. Price per piece was much, MUCH, better back than... thus 705 pieces for $99.99 was hardly appealing for anyone.

It was this lack of market demand, that caused Cloud City to just recently shoot up in price (2-3 years ago). Poor market demand in 2003, resulted in very few copies being created and held onto, making it very rare now that we are in 2013 and people are attempting to "complete" their collections.

Several minifigures, the real grail of the set, are exclusive to this set. This makes it a "Must-Have" for minifigure collectors such as myself. You'll notice that a used copy of Cloud City sells for roughly $500. I sold a set of the minifigures for $475, no pieces included.

Only demand is for the minifigures in my humble opinion, and thus you can't really consider the "set" itself, as the holy grail of sets.

Plus, lets face it, its just a horrible set.... bleah.

Oldfan

The Lego Toy Fair 2005 Star Wars V.I.P. Gala Set Darth Vader Transformation is my SW holy grail: limited number, exclusive to an exclusive event, and not easily within reach (i.e. not on my continent)...

That said, I agree with the others that Cloud City is tough to get at decent prices due to the muliple exclusive minifigs, and the UCS Falcon is the biggest sets and is therefore the most expensive. There are many more copies of these sets available than the Toy Fair Exclusive. On the other hand, the TFE is merely a repackaging of #7251 , so maybe it's not that grail-ish...but I doubt I'll ever obtain a copy, and I already own #10123 and #10179 !

samiam391

I think the fact that #7251 TFE is merely a re-packaging hampers its value and "holy grail" ish-ness.

All you are paying a few more thousand for is a small label in the bottom.. left hand corner(?) (If I recall correctly). There's only 50 copies, and 3 have been sitting on BL and eBay forever. There just isn't the draw considering you can have the same contents of the package for a mere $30 or so.

NgclarkIV

I think the holy grail would be the death star in my opinion, owning both the mf and it. I wasn't impressed at the finally model of the mf, seeing that it didn't have an interior inside.

Dantos

I agree, @NgclarkIV The Death Star is a neat little doll's house, plus it was featured on The Big Bang Theory :P Plus if I'm not mistaken they only brought out 1 Death Star for figures unlike the Millenium Falcon.

hantot

@dantos wasn't that the Death Star II on The Big Bang Theory (unless both have been on and I missed one!)

Nadana86

I think cloud city is that expensive because it has never been released in Europe. Almost no availabilty but enough collectors = hot!

Dantos

@hantot I saw the episode a while back, so I'm not certain

Bandit

hantot said:

@dantos wasn't that the Death Star II on The Big Bang Theory (unless both have been on and I missed one!)

Yes, it was the UCS model, not 10188.

Dantos

Like, I said, it's a neat little doll's house. The other...isn't. I didn't make a distinction between the figures one and the other because the other is just a model and not really something suitable for playing with. I'm not a Star Wars Lego fan, so I don't have the set and not familiar with the numbers of SW sets.

peterlinddk

Here is a clip from the episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon is building the Death Star:


direct link if embedding doesn't work

It is certainly the UCS #10143 Death Star II, but for some reason I clearly remembered it as the #10188 Death Star "dollhouse".

The clip is from season 5, episode 8, "The Isolation Permutation".

Oh, and the episode ends with producer Chuck Lorre mentioning those who built the model for the shots:

Dantos

Hmm, looks like I'll need to check that episode out again, but I dont have the DVD right now :(

prof1515

A "holy grail" is something which is highly coveted yet difficult to obtain. Cloud City, the UCS Death Star, the UCS Millennium Falcon and all of the other sets mentioned are not difficult to obtain. At best, you might call finding one in true MISB condition a "holy grail" but that still might be a stretch. Even the chrome C-3PO wouldn't really be so given that 10,000 is an aweful lot. However, the gold C-3PO would be a "holy grail" because only five were produced. The Han Solo/Indiana Jones Transformation Chamber, of which only 100 were produced (and of which I've only seen one offered for sale), could be another "holy grail". Anything that was mass-produced and available to anyone, whether luck was involved or not, is not a "holy grail" though.

Legoboy

Holy grail:-

- a thing which is eagerly pursued or sought after.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/grail

- the object of a prolonged endeavor.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=grail

#10179 UCS Millennium Falcon is my Holy Grail.

Renny

You know it probably differs for everyone. I don't collect mini figures, therefore I really have no interest in acquiring a gold C-3PO. I love my 10179 UCS Falcon. It's the most impressive looking consumer available Lego set I have seen. It's based on the most iconic ship in Star Wars, it's HUGE, the build experience is epic, it's now ridiculously expensive (even to BrickLink) and it's no longer made making it harder to obtain every day that passes.

To each their own though. Maybe someone's holy grail is a msib set from their childhood that is no longer made and feel that their collection is not complete without one.

pteric

speaking of cloud city, I wish Lego would do a new Twin-pod Cloud car

mrtonytj

The 9kt Gold C-3po is my Holy Grail of figs. They haven't made my holy grail of set's yet :-)

Renny

^What about a 9kt gold dipped UCS Falcon ;)

CurvedRoadPlate

^Life size brick built George Lucas

murphquake

orange and purple polka dot 2014 UCS Jango Fett constraction set is my holy grail.... then again I don't believe in that either

mrtonytj

Renny said:

^What about a 9kt gold dipped UCS Falcon ;)

Drooooollllll... Oh that would be maaaaaad! lol

cheshirecat

I agree with @prof1515 - Anyone of us could have a brand new UCS MF this week if we wanted it - even if we didn't have the money to hand most of us could get it selling a car, house, internal organ, child etc. The reality of it is though that none of us actually want it that bad, or we would, by definition, have it already.

I would say only the Gold C3PO, Bronze Boba and perhaps some stuff that LEGO have never released to the public, could really be considered holy grail stuff, things that you would really have to work hard to get hold of, through legal or illegal means.

Oldfan

peterlinddk said:

Here is a clip from the episode of Big Bang Theory where Sheldon is building the Death Star:

Hmmm...it's been a while since I built #10143 , but I think Sheldon & co. missed a couple of side panels on that model...

mrtonytj

^I am pretty sure they only had to 90% build it so it looked like sheldon was building it himself? I could be wrong but that's my reasoning..

Bandit

^ yes, he was in the process of building it during the episode.

rocao

@samiam391: I don't mean to come across as too harsh, but there are a lot of errors in your post.

samiam391 said:

The set itself is horrendous, and probably one of the poorest constructed sets that LEGO has ever made.

This one is pretty subjective, and I'm not sure your criteria, but if you provided it, I'm confident I could give you dozens of other sets that people would rate even lower.

samiam391 said:

Considering that LEGO wasn't incredibly popular (slow uphill climb) at the time, not many people purchased this set. Price per piece was much, MUCH, better back than... thus 705 pieces for $99.99 was hardly appealing for anyone.

I'm certain LEGO was among the most popular toys of that era, just as it is today. Stores had an entire aisle dedicated to LEGO just as they do today, and you don't do that with unpopular toys.

I don't agree that price/piece was MUCH better in 2003. But that's a lengthy claim to prove either way. But I will submit the following two sets which were very popular and the comparable PPP ratios were not a barrier: #7163 Republic Gunship (693 pieces/$90) and #7153 Jango Fett's Slave I (360 pieces/$50).

samiam391 said:

It was this lack of market demand, that caused Cloud City to just recently shoot up in price (2-3 years ago). Poor market demand in 2003, resulted in very few copies being created and held onto, making it very rare now that we are in 2013 and people are attempting to "complete" their collections.

It didn't just shoot up in price 2-3 years ago. The aftermarket price doubled within a year of retirement and has continued a steady ascent ever since. My recordkeeping is very clear on this.

Market demand wasn't so much of an issue as market exposure was. Cloud City was a LEGO exclusive at a time when there were only a handful of LEGO retail stores. This was predominately sold from LEGO [email protected], and thus its exposure was limited.

"Holy grail" is pretty subjective, but the set does have some characteristics indicating that it should at least be in the conversation as such, particularly among system scale sets.

It is desirable: it is ranked as the 9th most wanted Star Wars sets by Brickset users. It's after market value as an appreciation % is second to none.
It was scarce: it was a LEGO exclusive and not produced at the same volume of other LEGO system scale sets.
In the aftermarket, it is relatively rare: it has the second lowest own to want ratio of any non-promotional Star Wars set (1087 own vs 2476 want).

SpaceCake

absolut3 said:

I would say the UCS Millennium Falcon

This for sure.

glendo

10179 is king, and 10030 is probably wears the runner-up title.

samiam391

@rocoa- Not at all. I love it when people inform me of knowledge I don't have yet.. and I say that in all seriousness. The easiest/best way to learn is when we make mistakes :-)

However, that being said... I think there may be a few errors in your "counter" post as well and I'd love to bring up my own arguments against what you said... Have to say I disagree with most of what you said.

Still though, I don't want to go back and forth on it on here, as I don't really like it when two people go back and forth on a forum and start to crowd it up with their own "personal conversation". I'll just shoot you a PM, I'd love to see some records on it and discuss it more. :-)

rocao

I think our conversation is still very much on-topic. I don't see a reason why you shouldn't post it here. Up to you.

samiam391

@rocoa- I'm merely saying that I didn't want to crowd up the forums with a "personal conversation", however that is fine with me. I didn't say it was off topic.

I am curious to see the records?

I am mostly judging off of what I hear around the forums, I will admit that. I've never heard Cloud City as once being recommended as a even "good" set... and I hate it myself. It is quite a subjective statement, and perhaps I shouldn't say it to a few people that are just getting into LEGO so as not to discourage them from it.

"It didn't just shoot up in price 2-3 years ago. The aftermarket price doubled within a year of retirement and has continued a steady ascent ever since. My recordkeeping is very clear on this."

It may have doubled (I'm sure your records are crystal clear on that, so I won't debate it), however I must say that minifigure prices on it didn't soar until 2-3 years ago. Maybe even 4, going back to 2009. This figure was readily available (CCBF) a mere few years ago for $70, and has since reached past $200 to even $300.

I think my problem with my whole post, that you see, is I place an emphasis on minifigures. Minifigures are my forte, not so much sets.

"I'm certain LEGO was among the most popular toys of that era, just as it is today. Stores had an entire aisle dedicated to LEGO just as they do today, and you don't do that with unpopular toys."

"Cloud City was a LEGO exclusive at a time when there were only a handful of LEGO retail stores. This was predominately sold from LEGO [email protected], and thus its exposure was limited."

Second comment does sort of contradict your first one.

I never said it wasn't a rare set, it is rare. However, I believe that the market drive for it is the figures, as opposed to the set itself. I separate a set into two things, bricks and figures. Maybe that's a flaw, but I do it by instinct. In this, I see prices for CC figs going for $475, and than the set itself (used copy) going for $550 or around that range.

""Holy grail" is pretty subjective, but the set does have some characteristics indicating that it should at least be in the conversation as such, particularly among system scale sets."

It is a subjective term, and I never said it shouldn't be considered a "holy grail", however I do NOT think it is the "actual" holy grail.

Everyone I believe will have their own specific holy grail, which makes LEGO great. I'd hate for everyone to strive after the same item, that'd make the rest of the "collection" boring.

Anyway, that's me rambling.

I find we go back and forth on a few things on the forums, must be the difference of bricks and figs.

You should know that I mean no harm in anything I say, perhaps my posts are to subjective and personal. Which I apologize for, if so :-)

Lego_Lord_Mayorca

Well, all I can add is my opinion. If you are assigning a set the "Holy Grail" descriptor, you cannot do that based solely on monetary value. The set itself is crude by today's standards, and even when it first came out in late 2003, I felt that Lego could do better. A few unique figures weren't going to sway me so easily. No doubt it has its charms, and I'm not saying I would turn the set away if offered to me. But it is nowhere near other true contenders like the UCS Millennium Falcon or even contemporaries like the first AT-AT set (in my opinion the BEST AT-AT set Lego has produced).

mrtonytj

Lego_Lord_Mayorca said:

even contemporaries like the first AT-AT set (in my opinion the BEST AT-AT set Lego has produced).

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Even though the #4483 's head is a "little" fragile it is still by far the best AT-AT TLG has produced followed secondly by the #10178

Lego_Lord_Mayorca

mrtonytj said:

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Even though the #4483 's head is a "little" fragile it is still by far the best AT-AT TLG has produced followed secondly by the #10178

Man, I'm glad someone agrees with me on that. There was a thread not too long ago where people were proclaiming #10178 the greatest AT-AT by far, and it made me scratch my head a bit in confusion.

rocao

samiam391 said:

I am mostly judging off of what I hear around the forums, I will admit that. I've never heard Cloud City as once being recommended as a even "good" set... and I hate it myself.

The "holy grail" designation is vague, but for me, I am thinking with a collecting mindset since a large portion of the grail's mystique is the search for it. Most descriptions of the grail are earthen and not particularly gaudy, so I'm not anointing a set just because it is the biggest, most valuable, or best design.

To be clear, I wasn't even saying Cloud City would be my choice; I simply said that it shouldn't be so easily dismissed based on its design shortcomings

samiam391 said:

It may have doubled (I'm sure your records are crystal clear on that, so I won't debate it), however I must say that minifigure prices on it didn't soar until 2-3 years ago. Maybe even 4, going back to 2009. This figure was readily available (CCBF) a mere few years ago for $70, and has since reached past $200 to even $300.

$70 for a single minifig is a pretty robust value to me. And there are three additonal exclusive minifigs.

samiam391 said:

"I'm certain LEGO was among the most popular toys of that era, just as it is today. Stores had an entire aisle dedicated to LEGO just as they do today, and you don't do that with unpopular toys."

"Cloud City was a LEGO exclusive at a time when there were only a handful of LEGO retail stores. This was predominately sold from LEGO [email protected], and thus its exposure was limited."

Second comment does sort of contradict your first one.

I don't agree that there is a contradiction. LEGO was still being sold at all major retailers. Just because LBR had not yet decided they wanted to open stores in every major city does not mean LEGO was not popular.

Even today there are LEGO customers who aren't aware of [email protected] or are aware but have never placed an order. Now imagine the situation 10 years ago, before the e-commerce landscape had really changed. People on Lugnet were still phoning LEGO weekly to get news of specials because the website was not updated with them. I liken it to the mail order catalog service of the previous era (80's and 90's). People knew about it, but I think it was widely underused.

samiam391 said:

I never said it wasn't a rare set, it is rare. However, I believe that the market drive for it is the figures, as opposed to the set itself. I separate a set into two things, bricks and figures. Maybe that's a flaw, but I do it by instinct.

We definitely have a fundamental difference in opinions here. To me, minifigs are part of a set. And the fact that people are separating the figures from the set only increases the rarity of owning the complete set.

CCC

rocao said:

The "holy grail" designation is vague, but for me, I am thinking with a collecting mindset since a large portion of the grail's mystique is the search for it. Most descriptions of the grail are earthen and not particularly gaudy, so I'm not anointing a set just because it is the biggest, most valuable, or best design.

I think that is true. In one sense it is something that is the source of a quest. It is not the biggest, best, most expensive item. In another sense, it is something unattainable, since it doesn't exist. It is something inside you, not a physical object. Even what it is is down to interpretation and conjecture.

So for me the holy grail is a minifig scale death star.

leemcg

CCC said:

So for me the holy grail is a minifig scale death star.

Timely as I just saw this:

http://www.quora.com/LEGO/Would-it-be-technically-feasible-to-build-a-minifig-scale-Death-Star

LegoFanTexas

^ Yikes...

3.9km in diameter to build a minifig Death Star.

"As far as cost goes, ... you're probably at the level where you may find it cost-effective to acquire a controlling interest in the company instead of buying pieces on the open market."

CCC

OK, so I'll go with a death star that is big enough for me to climb inside.

NgclarkIV

Its simple to solve this question. LEGO just needs to renew their Indiana Jones license and make a holy grail set.

Case closed.

GothamConstructionCo

^ he chose poorly :-)

samiam391

"We definitely have a fundamental difference in opinions here. To me, minifigs are part of a set."

Minifigures are part of the set, however in my mind I instinctively separate them.

I think our difference in opinion will end up getting us nowhere as we continue to go back and forth. I'm not much of a debater either, so I'm just going to leave at that and save us some time :-)