Changing the color of bricks.

georgebjones

Has anyone had any successful experience in this area? I read in a forum somewhere that you could use RIT fabric dye. I tried that, put some in black overnight and not even the slightest hint of a shade change. Clearly whoever suggested it has never done it. I know there are lots of theories about how it can be done, but I would love to hear from anyone who has "actually" done it. I am trying to go from red to black and white to black.

I have heard of vinyl dye, acrylic paint, airbrushing, etc. I would prefer it to look like it was made in that color, rather than crudely painted, and I am not the best with a brush. :(

collect_that

Why?

bluemoose

^^ Haven't done it myself, but I have read about people using vinyl dye successfully. There's an interesting tutorial here ...
http://www.gideontech.com/content/articles/202/1
... which seems to be mostly about dyeing computer equipment cases, but could work OK with LEGO's ABS.

^ Because a particular part may not be available in the colour you want. An example might be a canopy that's only available in clear trans, but you want it in trans yellow for a classic space or blacktron MOC.

georgebjones

@bluemoose, I have seen that guide before, but never been able to find Vinyl dye in any sort of store, automotive, or otherwise. Also, I just don't know how well it will work, since the RIT was a total, epic and complete FAIL. :(

Yellowcastle

^^^ I guess I'm with collect_that on this...

brickmatic

I've never done it, but I was reading an entry on a forum somewhere on the web about how someone used vinyl dye on Lego with good results. (Yeah, I know, not helpful) Pictures were included and indeed it did look good. The key is to use vinyl dye and not vinyl paint, which are different but similar enough to cause confusion. Vinyl dye was difficult to find in stores, but automotive shops was apparently the way to go. Might have to ask the staff about it. Not in the section with paints. The dye looked natural and did not add any size to the brick because it was absorbed into the plastic and not layered onto it.

EDIT Here is the link http://www.minifigcustomizationnetwork.com/howto/1675

georgebjones

@brickmatic !! Thank you! That guide is great. I don't know the guy, but it looks about as close as I want.

@collect_that and @Yellowcastle - The sacrilege does not stop with changing the color. I am also going to cut it. It is also a part that only comes in one set right now for $70 USD and there are two of them in the set. I am going to cut and dye both of them, then put stickers on them. The only other thing I can think of to offend purists is to combine them with MegaBloks but I don't see how that would work to my advantage. Haha, but seriously, I knew there would be opponents to this thread. That's ok. I appreciate the comments because it keeps the discussion toward the top. :)

Istokg

Hmmmm vinyl dye in black....and the 100 classic (no glass) 1x1x2 red windows I have....

Oh Lord.... "lead us not into temptation".... ;-)

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogPG.asp?P=29&colorID=11

bluemoose

.... never been able to find Vinyl dye in any sort of store, automotive, or otherwise.

I've been unable to find it in the UK either.

brickmatic

^^^ Hey, I'm a Lego purist, but what other people do with their Lego is their business :)

Out of curiosity, what piece are you modding and how are you going to use it?

collect_that

^ Well not strictly a purist (I own 2 custom Star Wars Weapons after all!!) and not the biggest custom creator, my output limited to houses, parks and such for my town layout.

But my initial comment was based on my opinion that the great thing about Lego is also its limitation, forcing you to think outside the box to get creative when a piece either doesn't exist or is unavailable.

To me this seems like a blur between building and traditional modelling, but I also agree that what other builders do is up to them though and would also like to see the results posted??

georgebjones

I will happily post the results. Still trying to hunt down that elusive vinyl dye. Today being a holiday in the US didn't help. :)

The piece is a half cylinder in the new 3368 Rocket Launch Center http://www.brickset.com/detail/?set=3368-1 set.

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=92591

I was originally going to use this piece, cement mixer cylinder,
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=57792
but then I saw this one in the shuttle set and it works so much better.

I am recreating the driving of the Golden Spike for an upcoming model train show. Since it is a national model train show and not a LEGO train show, I figured I could get away with it. :)

I need to transition from a 4 round to a 6 round and both of these pieces do it and do so well. I came up with a lot of other brick built solutions, but the rest of the train is so perfect and that section really bothered me. If you look up the Jupiter or 119, you can see what I am trying to do.

However, if anyone can come up with a nice brick built solution so I won't have to resort to cutting and dyeing...the LEGO will be spared. lol

I have done a lot of searching for other LEGO attempts at these trains and found a couple examples that left a lot to be desired.

@collect_that - Funny, because I initially bristled at the thought of cutting and painting LEGO, but I cut one of the fantasy era poleaxes and now I am hooked!

I always try to be short and succinct, but fail.

georgebjones

@Istokg - DOOOO ITTTTT!! :)

jb15

A brand that I've used with success (admittedly only once) is Rit dye. It's supposed to dye fabric, but when almost boiled (with water) it will dye plastic. Available in many colors, too.

georgebjones

@jb15 - I tried the RIT, but used hot water, not near boiling. I got frustrated and tossed the rest of the dye, but it is pretty cheap. How did you get it so hot? Stove, microwave, Bunsen Burner? I pretty much have my kitchen and side yard as my laboratory, and there is already "evidence" from my previous attempt immortalized in my tile and grout in the kitchen. :(

brickmatic

I think better bet is vinyl dye rather than messing with temperatures and all that. Not sure the high temperatures are all that great for the plastic anyway. Also, people talk about where to find the dye on this forum:

http://www.classic-castle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6353&start=15

RabbitWizzard

I have a technique that makes white blocks yellow! Its expensive and unhealthy and takes a while, but the results are great.

thewerewithal

On a related note, have any of you found success in painting lego? I'd like to paint some helmets a different color for a project I'm working on... See attached.

jb15

I put it on the stove, like I was heating a can of soup. :)

It did shrink the plastic just a little bit--I was making helmets, and the helmets were noticably tighter fitting on the heads of the minifigs. The problem I had with vinyl dye was trying to find the right shade/color of dye. And, finding it in small amounts (the smallest amounts I found were like $20 bottles).

brickmatic

^ From what I've read, finding the right colors is problematic. Unless the colors you want are similar to automotive interior trim. Because those colors are readily available. I also heard that you can have them color match, but it might be expensive.

As for cost, I was reading that you can find vinyl dye for $9 a can.

georgebjones

Hmm. still haven't found the dye anywhere. I looked at autoparts stores around here that said they have them. I went to the Mar-hyde website even and like most companies websites, gave me stores that carried ANY of their products, not specifically the one I was looking for. :(

As for the RIT. I can NOT get the dye to stick. I have tried to dye white, grey, red, yellow, blue bricks, used cold water, hot water boiling water, full concentration, dilute, you name it. None of them even got a hint of a shade change. Not a hint!! I have to say I have given on on using RIT. Still trying to find the dye.

brickmatic

@georgebjones What happened when you went to the autoparts store?

georgebjones

@brickmatic - They really had no clue what I was talking about. They pointed me to the paint section and it was all just paint. There were lots of paint that said they would work for fabric or interior trim, but they all had not-acetone as the ingredients. But I did find one can at one store (I have been to 10 or so Kragen, O'reilly, Autozone stores) It was a Kragen, The color is black, which is what I want. The product is Mar-Hyde Automotive Trim Coating. But the first ingredient is Acetone. I sprayed a test part and will let it dry overnight, then do the scratch test in the morning. The "painted" areas look a little dull. I will post a picture tomorrow. It at least is sticking.

brickmatic

Glad you found it at last. Looking forward to the pics.

georgebjones

Well, that didn't work out too well. I kind of figured. Who would have thought it would be this difficult to get a decent looking color? I guess most people when trying to change the color of plastic just paint over it as thick as they can and don't care.
Anyway, here is the picture. I only painted part of it to compare between the regular sheen and what the paint would look like. I then did a scratch test to see if it is just a coating or actual dye. I scratched it in two places, the one on the right much harder than the one on the left.

Here is the link (I hope it's right)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5820546258/in/photostream

brickmatic

^Sorry I didn't catch it before, but vinyl coating is different from vinyl dye.

"Aside from the company websites, I'm not sure how you would buy them online. I found Mar-Hyde at three differen tO'Reilley Autoparts. Many autopart stores around here, especially the mom-and-pop local owned ones, carry Plasti-Kote. The larger retailers do NOT carry vinyl dye. The stuff they carry is a coating, not a dye. Make sure you read the labels carefully. The stuff that Wal-Mart carries is called Dupli-Color Vinyl and Fabric Coating."

"As mentioned above, there are two very similar kinds of Vinyl product on the market, one is called Vinyl 'Coating', the other Vinyl 'Dye'. What you want is the Vinyl 'Dye' and not the Vinyl 'Coating'!"

georgebjones

Yeah, I caught the difference before, but figured it was worth a shot, anyway. The can only cost about $6. I broke down and bought some VHT brand from Amazon, and it cost me $14, but I did get a voodoo sparrow at the same time, so not a total loss. :)

georgebjones

FYI - Here is the info for it:
VHT SP941 Vinyl Dye Gloss Jet Black Can - 11 oz.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CPJLWQ

I will update if it works. :) It is supposed to arrive on the 17th :(

MinifigsMe

I'm intrigued by this concept, as I'd quite like a lot more green bricks for "organic" items. I don't have enough spare bricks to want to try it now, but for uk peeps this sounds like the right stuff http://www.vinyldye.co.uk/

georgebjones

@Savage_Steel - That looks perfect. I will let you know how it works.

I hate to experiment with products by ordering them online. I don't mind ordering online if I know what I am getting. Finding the dye somewhere that I could actually touch it has been most difficult, well impossible, so far since I haven't actually found it.

georgebjones

Bad me. I promised to update, but haven't yet. Great news! it worked perfectly. The VHT product I ordered worked very well. It did seep into the plastic. I tried a couple tests where I just held the spray there for a few seconds putting on a really thick coat, and it all just soaked in. There wasn't any puddling, or anything. The only downside I could find was that it stuck to whatever was holding it. I used some long technic beams to hold pieces that I sprayed and they got some spray as well, and when I separated them after they dried, the dye dried in a bubbly sort of way. But every scratch, blemish, dent, ding, dirt, whatever, was still there after dyeing, which could not be said for paint. I will post some pictures. If I knew that a piece was dyed and I could compare it to a non-dyed one, I could probably pick which one, but if I didn't know, there would be no way to tell.

As for tips, I would recommend spraying it in an environment toward the lower end of the suggested range. I did one time when it was really hot, and one time when it was cooler, and when it was hot, the dye dried in the air on its way to the surface and caused the surface to be a little rough. Hope that all makes sense.

georgebjones

OK, some closer pictures will follow. Maybe in a couple days, though. :-|
Try and find the piece that is Vinyl-dyed :) Also, there is another piece(s) that I sprayed black. Try and find those. That is how good this stuff works. Perfect color match, too!

PerryMakes

Based on your previous comment, I'm guessing you painted part no. 92591 "Cylinder Half 4 x 6 x 13 with 1 x 2 Cutout" ;) But it does blend nicely. Great use of that part, by the way!

CCC

An update on some experiments with dyes. I've been playing with RIT dye + water + acetone for dying parts. There are loads of sites on the internet about how to make up the dye. Some suggest it can be done cold, I have found it needs to be hot: 80C or so to get decent colour penetration. Obviously too high and bits start to deform (more on that later). I also found a relatively high acetone concentration is needed, about 25-30% by volume.

Obviously the point of doing this is to get parts in colours you want from parts that are the wrong colour. I did most of these about six months ago, so bear in mind new parts are now out. I am not so good at painting, so I thought I could dye then have to make my own decals to put some patterning back in.

First up: The Dark Knight .... he needs black wings:



This has worked rather well. Jet black, looks like Lego made it. Obviously there is no pattern on the original, so just a nice flat black.

What if there is a pattern on the piece. Step forward the traffic cop (or rather just his head). It's interesting to note that the dye pentrates the yellow, but the printed sunglasses remain. Again the piece is a lovely jet black, with the silver shades in tact. This suggested something a little apocalyptic to me:



So the print remains. So this is an excellent way to recolour minifigs, whilst keeping their original prints. This is good for me, as I like to distinguish rank, but also like my figures to keep the Lego look. So lets dye a samurai:



I first stopped this one before it went completely black, it came out a very deep red. Then gave him a little longer so he went black. I don't think I could manage the same look with regular black pieces and decals.

I'm loving this colour change, so time to put in my favourite pieces. I've always wanted some Praetorian guards for my Roman army, with black shields. Lets do the helmets too:



The shields are perfect. Again beautifully black with the orignial print in tact. These are way better than I had originally hoped. Before I started, I was expecting the whole lot to go black and the need to apply decals. It turns out I can have exactly the same design without the need for decals. Notice the helmets, they go a really nice tarnished pewter colour. Lets try that on some other helmets. These ones are dwarf helmets from brickforge. Varying the time that each is dyed for produces some lovely results:



The plain silver one is on the left, going through a gold, deep bronze to almost black. These were originally all silver. Ignore the apparent size difference. They were not straight when I photographed them, so rotated the photo a bit. I did the same with some persian helmets:



And got some lovely bronze helmets from silver. So I tried some plain grey helmets for my castle soldiers:



These went through a fairly light copper type colour. I probably should have stopped there, but a little longer and they went to very dark copper / brown. I'll probably dye them all the way to black.

A collection of random parts:



Down the front we have the fitness girl's radio ... now black instead of pink. It differs from the rap star's one as the print is still silver rather than gold. The boxing gloves took some dye, but even after hours, didn't really go any darker. I wanted black, but deep red is about all I am going to get. There are some more traffic cop heads, topped with a brickforge ponytail. There is a black bowler hat (actually the clown's hat from S5, with the print rubbed off) - remember this was done before S8 was announced. The scourge was yellow from brickforge. Now a much nicer colour. Ignore the falcata swords, I'll come back to those. The thing in the centre at the front is a space gun (again brickforge). It used to be green, now jet black. The persian helmets we've already seen. The mohawks were bright orange (and hence cheap), but a bit of dye gets them to a useful colour. After watching Rocky III last night, they are for a Clubber Lang. The staff is a lovely dark brown (not black), starting from sand green. The maces were bright red, but now more useful in black. Then at the back, we have a regular Lego sword and handcuffs. These were left in the dye for days. They are essentially the same shade as when they went in. Slightly more dull grey, but hardly changed at all. They dye sticks to them, but washes off. Obviously a different plastic.

So did everything work? No. As above, the swords and handcuffs did not recolour at all. The falcata swords showed a different problem. I obviously heated too much (in fact, it started to boil) and look what happened:



They significantly shrank and changed shape. I did the same with some bricks. Some I dyed relatively cool (70C) and they were OK, but took quite a while to dye. Others I heated to 90C and let them stew. They went perfectly black, but the clutch power is awful. They must have slightly changed shape in the heat, since they no longer stick. This is especially noticable in odd shaped bricks (arches, etc) as some of these have even twisted out of shape. For minifig parts, there is much greater tolerance, since most pieces stick to a single stud, clip in a hand, etc. For bricks, I wouldn't bother dying.

I've only used black so far, and thik I've got some great results. For darkening existing minifig outfits but retaining the print, it is perfect. I especially love the different metal effects you can get on silver helmets. Clearly you cannot go lighter with this form of dying, but if you have a lot of white pieces, then coloured dye might help recolour them. You probably won't end up with official Lego colours, btu the dye does give a new lease of life to some parts only available in a few colours, especially if those colours do not fit in with your colour schemes. I would never have found a use for the fitness instructor's pink radio, but as a black one it fits in perfectly for me.

CCC

The Praetorians are going to get different torsos and black capes are on order. I also have a load of pila (pilums) in silver on order to replace the official Lego ones.

georgebjones

@CCC - that is pretty awesome, and exactly what I have been trying to do. Would you be so kind as to point me to a site that you used as a reference, or give some detailed steps on how you did it? The reason being, I have tried RIT dye before and had zero success. I mean, ZERO. I didn't, however use any acetone in the mixture. I can see how that would make a difference. Do you get the acetone from nail polish remover, or some other source? Do you just use your kitchen stove and a candy thermometer?

I look forward to your response. :)

MinifigsMe

@CCC - this is fabulous!! thanks so much for sharing. Shame you've not tried out blue! the bane of my life right now is the olympians all fighting in blue, and there not being enough blue boxers out there to meet my demands!
But I'll def be dying those fitness instructor radios - needed pink torsos so ended up with a bunch of useless radios! Thanks.

CCC

A pack of dye lasted me three batches, each batch was made up with about 100ml water plus 30-40 ml acetone. I wasn't overly scientific with exact quantities, I just mixed stuff together until I got it to work. It will be quite gloopy once heated. I used the powder packs of DIY, not ready mixed bottles. I mixed the dye in cold water, then added the acetone and then heated. The acetone helps softens the surface and thus allows the dye to penetrate. Don't add the acetone to hot water - it boils at 56C, so would come straight off if added to hot water. You should also do it with the windows / doors open and not in a confined space. I used lab grade acetone, but purity wouldn't matter seeing as I was adding it to water anyway. Nail varnish remover should be fine so long as it contains acetone. Some removers contain ethyl acetate. I haven't tested that, it might work since it is a similar solvent.

I was really being quick and dirty - I heated on a gas stove in a glass beaker (just to avoid staining kitchen pots), but I'd imagine anything is fine. I am sure you could be more reproducable if you use a thermostatic heat bath, and measure out quantities accurately. The first time I measured the temperature using a standard mercury thermometer, after that I didn't bother.

For the metal colours, getting the shade reproducable is difficult. I imagine the process is slower at lower temperatures, so you could slow things down and keep checking. But to get uniform colouring of helmets for each faction, I just dyed them all at the same time. I normally batch my armies in groups of 8, so I ended up doing 8 helmets at once, along with any other parts. The dye seemed to last / keep its strength for hours.

One word of warning - hands seem to take ages. Much longer than yellow torsos or heads. I guess they have some extra hardener plasticiser in to make them less breakable.

@Savage_Steel I don't think you would be able to dye the red boxer headguards blue. The ones I tried went a similar colour to the gloves, very deep red, and then stayed there never reaching black. If you did this with blue dye, they would not come out bright blue.

CCC

PS If dying torsos, then pull the arms off first. I didn't want shadows like on the TC-14. I pulled the hands out too. That said, the legs and hips seemed to dye evenly, even in the thighs and the groin, despite being complete.

The other thing, once dyed, make sure you wash them really well in soapy water to make sure all the extra dye is off. I thought some of mine were clean, but noticed some staining on other parts that they came into contact with later.

I love the fact that the original print remains in place. All the parts look like genuine Lego, exactly the same as the official figures. I've tried photographing minifigs and then creating decals, but they never quite look the same for me.

georgebjones

Awesome @CCC. Are you a chemist to have access to lab-grade acetone? using glass containers is a great idea. I never wanted to mess with the powder dye, but I guess it makes sense, you can control the concentration. The swords and handcuffs are made of the "rubbery" plastic, so they obviously need a different solvent then acetone to work, I suppose. I will definitely be giving this a try and let you know how it goes. I love the fact that the original printing remains, as well, that is awesome. I am imagining all the possibilities.

MinifigsMe

Fantastic, thanks for all the extra detail, can't wait to experiment *glad I have access to lab grade acetone*

CCC

I am, but you don't need to be to get hold of dry acetone ... £7 a litre on amazon delivered.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Quality-Acetone-Includes-COURIER-DESPATCH/dp/B003WZB55O

But as you are mixing it with water anyway, the cheaper stuff in nail polish remover will be fine. You will just need to try it out to get your own recipe for the materials you have. Start with lower concentrations of acetone and build up.

It is also worth doing the pure acetone experiment, just to see what happens. Grab some old scratched up bricks and pop them in a jar, pour on a little acetone, part way up the bricks and look a couple of hours later. Childish experiment but amazing... I've tried using the resulting liquid to mold new parts, but it shrinks too much and leaves parts that are too flexible.

cavegod

I dyed some white parts - orange back in feb/march this year, all i did was put the dye in the water bring to boil then remove from heat and then put the parts in until the desired colour was reached.

MinifigsMe

Well I have blue fingers now, and some weird brown parts. Found some old navy blue Dylon and gave that a go with nail polis remover 20-30% and water and baked at 90c in my oven for an hour or so. Most parts ended up brown whatever colour they started! Then it stopped working, and everything ended up in even light brown. Dashed out to buy more dye and could only find Dylon not RIT. Complete failure with black, pink and brown Dylon - no penetration. Will try RIT. How long did you soak for @CCC?

CCC

Anything from a couple of minutes to maybe 15. Only the really stubborn parts had longer than that and then I just left them to cool down in the solution overnight.

You can get the packs of RIT dye powder on eBay, I think I paid about £3.50 a pack.

cavegod

i never use acetone just water and rit dye.

MinifigsMe

Hmm, must be new formula dylon then. Will be getting some RIT then! Cheers @CCC

georgebjones

@cavegod - Did you use the powder or the liquid? I tried the liquid myself with varying temperatures up to boiling and was never able to get the color to stick even the slightest. I even tried different concentrations and no effect at all. The pieces weren't even tinged. I tried several different color pieces, white, blue, red, yellow, etc. I only tried dyeing them black, though. That may have something to do with it.

I haven't been able to make it to the store that sells RIT, yet, so I haven't tried again with the powder and acetone.

cavegod

It was Powder and white lego parts.

ChanMcL

Anyone thought of changing the Wheel's colour on #8070, it is Light Bluish Gray now, I'm looking to change it to black, any ideas?

And Looking at @CCC's painting on the Romans, love it! Minding swapping a normal one to a painted one? ;)

CCC

^ They aren't painted, it is just uniform dye. I cannot paint very well at this scale.