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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^The previous post was for the comments before yours
    LegoFanTexas
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I used to collect Star Wars figures and there is no comparison between the two. There are so many places to buy Lego at or around rrp. While I occasionally missed out on certain Star Wars figures one day, I was able to grab what I wanted on another. I will say this: I have never missed out on a Lego set in my life. I may have missed a set or two that was on sale, but never at retail and 90% of the time I am able to find the sets I want on sale at a later time.
    LegoFanTexas
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I've not had time to read everything in this thread, but here's my two cents. I'm more familiar with this from the Star Wars action figure side. There are basically a lot of scalpers in the action figure market.

    These people go out and buy up the desirable pieces, making them hard to find at retail, and then selling them for an inflated price. So if I have to pay someone $20 for something I should be able to pay $10 for at Target that makes me mad. I don't think it's fair or right and people just doing business don't fly with me. It's my opinion and only my opinion.

    It really isn't any different than Toys R Us marking up prices over RRP because they know the items will sell, but I do understand your point.

    Keep in mind, your anger is perhaps misdirected... The action figure companies make limited numbers of some figures and tons and tons of other figures, for just this reason.

    They could end scalping in 2 seconds by simply producing more of what is desireable, this would ruin the scalper's business.

    The toy companies don't do that on purpose, they actually want a few figures to go up in value, so they are completely complicit in the whole thing.

    Retired items are bit of a different story.

    Yes, because at this point the toy is gone from the market. Then it is just supply and demand of whatever sets are left over to be sold, if demand is there, prices will rise, if it isn't, they won't.

    Look at most of the Atlantis sets for example, even retired for nearly a year, most of them have yet to reach RRP.

    Even in Star Wars, a few sets have not reached RRP 2 years after retiring. Home One is a perfect example.

    I may question the mark up, motivation of selling and how people got sets, but it's a different market. I think the perceived rarity and value of a set may be skewed by people with large inventories of these sets.

    Other part that gets to me is the price people sometime ask for. There's a few retired sets I'm searching that people are ask hundreds of dollars for that are really only worth fraction of that. And some idiot is willing to pay that, which encourages more people to ask for unreasonable prices. Well you know what they say about a fool and his money.

    People can ask anything they want, it takes a willing buyer and a willing seller to establish market price.

    There are a number of sets I haven't bought because of the price, and a few I just clicked on "buy now" and pretended to ignore the price. :)

    What sets are you looking for that you're having trouble finding? Someone here might hook you up.
    Pitfall69
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^^ Resellers can only charge what people are willing to pay. If you are not willing to pay the price, and someone else is, that's how it goes.
    Pitfall69LegoFanTexas
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    Keep in mind, your anger is perhaps misdirected... The action figure companies make limited numbers of some figures and tons and tons of other figures, for just this reason.

    They could end scalping in 2 seconds by simply producing more of what is desireable, this would ruin the scalper's business.

    The toy companies don't do that on purpose, they actually want a few figures to go up in value, so they are completely complicit in the whole thing.

    I feel like this actually isn't the case. Take the new TMNT figures for example. There are 24 figures per case, and only one of them is April O'Neil. I don't think even for a minute that this is because they hope she'll go up in value, but rather because they know she's not going to be sought after by the target demographic as, say, the four turtles (which are each four per case... because they command the highest demand). And I would say the same thing about almost every variation of Leia that's come out. She's not short-packed because they want Slave Leia to rise in value. She's short-packed because they know most kids are going to favor Han or Luke for the purposes of play. It's the collectors that will wind up driving her value via their 'have to get them all' mentality.

    Back on topic, I've never really seen this happen with LEGO, except for in the recent case of Minecraft, so we are in concordance on that essentially being a non-factor to the topic at hand.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ I would agree with you on April O'Neil, however it is well known that Star Wars action figures are sold by the case and the distribution in the cases is not even, nor do you get any say in what is there.

    Hot Wheels has done the same thing for years, old girlfriend of mine was into HW back in the late 90s, had a wall full of them, I remember going to Walmart and helping her dig through bins of them to try and find "the one" she was missing.

    Yea, I'll do strange things for love. :)

    I would also agree that LEGO does not do this. While they do sell a few things by case assortment, the assortment is known up front and is an even spread of the sets. For example, the new Racers that are $9.99 each, come in cases "A" and "B", 2 types in each case, even numbers of each. Otherwise, almost everything is sold by the case of identical items.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Yes, that is why I said that action figures and Lego are different in that respect.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I have been into everything over the years. Baseball Cards, Star Wars Action Figures, coins and of course Lego. Nothing seems to compare to Lego in my opinion.
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited October 2012
    ^ I remember plenty of shady baseball card dealers back when I was kid. That's one reason I give some of the member's here flack. Think back when you were a kid. Would you really like some "old" dude stashing a bunch of toys into a cart and then rushing to the check out?
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Oh, the shadyness is everywhere I agree. I just think that Lego is different. Also, as I stated before, I never saw someone fill their shopping cart with Lego or any toy for that matter.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    outside of a few rare and notable exceptions, there is never any practical shortage of LEGO sets. Pretty much any set is available for months if not years at a wide variety of online and in store locations.

    The only way someone doesn't get an item for AT WORSE the retailer suggested price, is if they just plain wait FAR too long - which calls into question just how bad they actually wanted it to begin with.

    Anyone holding out for clearance is taking a risk that they won't get the item. Let's just drop this whole straw-man about the theoretical kid who may or may not come in after the mass buyer. You can't have a productive discussion dealing in a never-ending array of hypothetical situation.
    Pitfall69gifinimStuBoy
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited October 2012
    ^ It happens. And not just physically in a store during a clearance sale. Why do you think Amazon has imposed buying limits on Lego product? Because it is a highly desirable collectable and there are those who abuse their buying power. Do you think LFT would really stop at two Minecraft sets if he were allowed to buy 1,000 of them at a time?
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    mathew said:

    ^ It happens. And not just physically in a store during a clearance sale. Why do you think Amazon has imposed buying limits on Lego product? Because it is a highly desirable collectable and there are those who abuse their buying power. Do you think LFT would really stop at two Minecraft sets if he were allowed to buy 1,000 of them at a time?

    Demand may be high (though I fail to understand it; it's an ugly set) but do you think anyone would fail to buy as many sets as they could afford if they could afford them? People seem to be treating mass-produced Lego sets as if they were some rarity. They're not. Note that you also mention "clearance sale". CLEARANCE. If you want something, buy it when it's available. You are NEVER EVER entitled to a sale price from anywhere. Pay MSRP. If you wait for a sale, you have only yourself to blame for not getting it. Period.


    LegoFanTexas
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    For the record, you are only accountable for what you would do and speak only to that effect. Unless you're clairvoyant (Hint: You're not), you don't know what others are doing and would do so arguing such isn't valid; it's just a personal attack.
    BumblepantsLegoFanTexasy2josh
  • AmberylAmberyl Member Posts: 193

    Other part that gets to me is the price people sometime ask for. There's a few retired sets I'm searching that people are ask hundreds of dollars for that are really only worth fraction of that. And some idiot is willing to pay that, which encourages more people to ask for unreasonable prices. Well you know what they say about a fool and his money.

    A set is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If it's "worth" a fraction of that, then it wouldn't be selling at those high prices. Auction sites are essentially the arbiter of what the true worth of something is -- the top price people are willing to pay in a competitive bidding environment.

    On eBay, Bricklink, and Amazon, there are sets listed at well above the prices that those same sets are auctioning for, or for that matter, that other sellers are listing their items for. I assume that if you want to get your item to move, you price it accordingly. Alternatively you sit there and wait for the inventory of people who are lower-priced to be exhausted, but then your cash and space gets tied up for longer, so there's an implicit cost to that.
    LegoFanTexas
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    I have to say, some of arguments for reselling clearance or eol stock are persuasive, indeed I'd go as far to say I've been persuaded. I still think buying out stock or large quantities of is greedy and not helpful to the 'community', but i don't go along with the 'everyone should have a fair chance at getting cheap lego).

    Bulk buying items that are hard to find just so that you can whack up the price for an immediate turn around still seems utterly wrong to me, particularly some items (friends advent calendar I'm looking at you) that should be the definition of happiness and good will to all men, but minecraft would be similar. Its just not very nice.
    Bumblepants
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    mathew said:

    ^ It happens. And not just physically in a store during a clearance sale. Why do you think Amazon has imposed buying limits on Lego product? Because it is a highly desirable collectable and there are those who abuse their buying power. Do you think LFT would really stop at two Minecraft sets if he were allowed to buy 1,000 of them at a time?

    Amazon does this to protect its image while still being able to move product. The casual buyer will see the limit and not order any more. The reseller knows how to order unlimited amounts within the terms of the sale. If Amazon was serious about imposing limits it would be very easy for them to do so. So far I have yet to see them make a serious attempt and the resellers benefit immensely. Somehow I don't think the idea of making sure every Lego fan gets a Minecraft set is a factor on the Bezos quest for world domination for his shareholdres LOL.
  • GothamConstructionCoGothamConstructionCo Colchester UKMember Posts: 783
    ^agree with @cheshircat.

    I'll buy a set and sell the minifigures I don't want and keep the vehicle or sell the vehicle and keep the minifigs and I'm glad others do the same.

    I do disagree with shelf clearing and buying up large quantities of sets just because the sets are discounted.
  • AmberylAmberyl Member Posts: 193
    I know that Amazon does cut off accounts who abuse multiple accounts to circumvent item limits. (Just trawl the Amazon forums for plenty of examples of people upset because this happened to them.) I expect there's probably a certain threshold that they care about, though.
    LegoFanTexas
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I suppose we can discuss this until we are blue in the face. The fact remains that there is a place for resellers in the community just not the ones who abuse the "system" and exploit the community for a quick buck.
    LegoFanTexasLegoboy
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    prof1515 said:

    For the record, you are only accountable for what you would do and speak only to that effect. Unless you're clairvoyant (Hint: You're not), you don't know what others are doing and would do so arguing such isn't valid; it's just a personal attack.

    Honestly, I did not mean it to be a personal attack on LFT. However, he's pretty upfront about his purchasing habits and he also happens to be a reseller. I should of used the term "reseller" instead.
    LegoFanTexas
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    mathew said:

    Honestly, I did not mean it to be a personal attack on LFT. However, he's pretty upfront about his purchasing habits and he also happens to be a reseller. I should of used the term "reseller" instead.

    No problem. I just wanted to say something before it spun off into more posts. :-) (No, I'm not a moderator, just want the thread to stay civil).
    LegoFanTexas
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,759
    Pitfall69 said:

    I suppose we can discuss this until we are blue in the face. The fact remains that there is a place for resellers in the community just not the ones who abuse the "system" and exploit the community for a quick buck.

    Surely that should be ... just not the ones who tell everyone about how they abuse the "system" and exploit the community for a quick buck. After all, if they don't tell you, you don't know. And no-one can exploit anyone if they don't want to be exploited, when it comes to selling lego.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited October 2012
    mathew said:

    Honestly, I did not mean it to be a personal attack on LFT. However, he's pretty upfront about his purchasing habits and he also happens to be a reseller. I should of used the term "reseller" instead.

    The difference here is that @LegoFanTexas has a legitimate business reselling Lego. He has hired people to help pack and ship items. He's not your average "lazy, fat, sweat pants wearing Walmart shelf clearer" I think I summed up what the stereotypical "reseller" is portrayed as :) I assure you, no matter how much he buys, I am still able to get my Lego, even at discount. It's amazing!!!! ;)
    LegoFanTexas
  • jtrjtr Member Posts: 37
    I was talking to somebody today about buying tickets from a scalper(ebay) for a RadioHead concert, and I made (without thinking) the comparison to lego re-sellers. Specifically those who take advantage of sales, buy up the stock and then sell it above retail on ebay.

    We thought it was similar to going online buying all the tickets before anybody else has the chance and then selling for a inflated profit.

    I assume that's why Lego has a limit on the quantity you can order for certain sets.

    Most people know what's right and wrong, we don't have to explain it. Unfortunately greed and a quick profit are going to corrupt.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    jtr said:

    I was talking to somebody today about buying tickets from a scalper(ebay) for a RadioHead concert, and I made (without thinking) the comparison to lego re-sellers. Specifically those who take advantage of sales, buy up the stock and then sell it above retail on ebay.

    We thought it was similar to going online buying all the tickets before anybody else has the chance and then selling for a inflated profit.

    I assume that's why Lego has a limit on the quantity you can order for certain sets.

    Most people know what's right and wrong, we don't have to explain it. Unfortunately greed and a quick profit are going to corrupt.

    That's a very poor comparison for several reasons. First, tickets are available for a limited time because they cease to have any value after the event takes place. Lego, by contrast, has no such expiration date. Second, Lego is available much, much longer than tickets are and from a greater variety of outlets. Finally, tickets bought "on sale" constitute a significant risk for the buyer whereas Lego does not. The closest comparison one could get in this case would be front-row and other desireable seating but that tends to go first and hence would not be "on sale".

    LegoFanTexas
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    jtr said:

    Most people know what's right and wrong, we don't have to explain it.

    You're right, most people do know "right and wrong"

    The trick, of course... is that not everyone agrees with what is "right and wrong".

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course. :) But trying to debate it here is pointless, we might as well debate religion and politices, to equally pointless effect. :)
  • jtrjtr Member Posts: 37
    I wanted to say i have nothing against resellers, we all need them for our lego fix. I just don't like certain practices.

    I didn't consider all those other reason, and it's quite different. To me it's not the goods, or the properties of the goods, it's the intent. Buying when stock is limited, and for specific reason to resell at inflated profits.

    * the ticket bought was sold out in three minutes, but widely available on ebay. Original price $130, $400 on eBay.

    As we're talking about ticket scalping, I'm thinking to myself, really . . . I should buy concert ticket and resell on ebay, think of all the lego I could buy with that profit. :)
  • jtrjtr Member Posts: 37
    See I don't really care about concert tickets or those who want to go, I'm (hypothetically) buying and selling them to fuel another want, in this example my hobby and love of lego . . . .
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited October 2012
    In most states, "scalping" is illegal, that is selling tickets for an event, at the event. I understand that reselling tickets in the UK is illegal unless authorized. I'm from New York, and I think you can't resell a ticket to an event for a markup unless you are outside the State of New York. There are holes everywhere in your comparison.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Anyway...I agree the thread should be closed.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Keep in mind also that those resellers of tickets often have left over tickets they can't sell at all, or sell for less than face price to get "something".

    I agree that in that example, just leave the ticket sales to the vendor, which is why there are anti-scalping laws that vary from place to place.
  • BrickarmorBrickarmor USAMember Posts: 1,257
    edited October 2012
    Pitfall69 said:

    I don't think the thread should be closed because there is some great information here.

    Pitfall69 said:

    Anyway...I agree the thread should be closed.

    Is foot-in-mouth contagious? Web virus speaking?

    [kidding... Hoping that would be obvious but.]
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    He has a love/hate relationship with the thread, what can he say? :)
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^When I said that, there was some good information. Now it's a bunch of drivell. After the one person said he didn't take the time to read the whole thread, I changed my mind.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^You are right about the love/hate thing. I always try to be civil and not get "sucked in" then someone says something that makes me dive right in with "all guns blazing"...and yes, that was a Priest reference :)
  • tamamahmtamamahm Member Posts: 1,977
    edited October 2012
    prof1515 said:

    That's a very poor comparison for several reasons. First, tickets are available for a limited time because they cease to have any value after the event takes place. Lego, by contrast, has no such expiration date.

    I think Christmas is the one potential exception to the above. Think Green Ninja spinners.

    In general, Ninjago spinners are only available for a limited time, compared to most other Lego stock. In addition, the big value of the Green Ninja spinner is before the event (Christmas), which is the expiration date for many parents.

    It is still obviously not a perfect example, but the spinners are a good case of people buying them when they have barely hit the market because of the short term availability, expected high demand of the Green Ninja by the market, and for buyers, there was a very clear event date for the value of these (kids wanting them for Christmas). The value doesn't completely diminish after Christmas, but there is definitely more demand for an item like this before the event.

    (Of course, the spinners are also a case, though, where a company anticipated demand and really does seem to have put out a ton of product. The Nya spinner was far harder for me to locate. That was in my store, and then out. )


    On sales and clearances, I know if I don't leap I will miss. I know if I don't do my research I will miss. I know if I try to play chicken with the Target sales, I will miss. I don't make out on every discount out there, but really I've had plenty of deals over the years for my kids for bdays, Christmas and gifts.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ I agree with you on the spinners, some of them seem common as dirt (I'm looking at you 2174 and 2175), others are insanly expensive (I'm looking at you 2111 and 9570)

    But actually, while you'll never get TLG to admit it, I think that is intentional, it is the action figure and Hot Wheels stratagy, make most of your product commen and have that one rare set from each "release" that everyone wants and no one can find.

    Lloyd ZX is clearly the one from the current line, however some of that might be demand. Amazon has restocked it every few days in the past two weeks. I've been keeping track, they have stocked over 5,000 of them by my count since October 1st. They sold them all out within a day or two of restocking 500-800 of them every time.

    So there is clearly a ton of demand. Amazon also lowered their buy limit from 5 to 2, so resellers can't just clean them out. Last week, they restocked 800 of them, buy limit of 2. Sold out in less than 48 hours.

    That is a ton of demand for a little green figure.

    That being said, these were going for $20-30 back in August, today you can find them all day long on eBay for $15 shipped.

    So I think the supply has started to catch up to demand, if you want one, $15 shipped is not really a crazy price to pay, all things considered.
  • atxleeatxlee Member Posts: 155
    Just my cents worth after following this entire thread. Lego isn't really limited in distribution (except for a few items) which means most of us do get what we need at retail/sale prices, if we put in some effort to hunt them down...

    As for EOL items, resellers provide us an option to obtain these items at a certain price point. Ultimately it is us (man in the mirror) that decides whether to exercise that option (price point).

    There are a few EOL items, which I would love to add to my collection but out of my current budget but at least I know they are available, if I decide to pull a trigger on them.

    There are a lot of things in life for which EOL means EOL :-) with no option of ever turning back...
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^Because of resellers, I was able to snag 2 sets I've been wanting. Thanks "Darth Texas" and my new buddy @tk79.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 3,012
    jtr said:

    I wanted to say i have nothing against resellers, we all need them for our lego fix. I just don't like certain practices.

    I didn't consider all those other reason, and it's quite different. To me it's not the goods, or the properties of the goods, it's the intent. Buying when stock is limited, and for specific reason to resell at inflated profits.

    Can we define "inflated profits"? Is any profit acceptable? There are a number of scenarios here, 2 of which i'll show below:-

    1. Something goes EOL, a reseller buys up the stock at half price when it is in clearance, sits on it for a while and then sells it at more than RRP, maybe tripling their money after a year.

    2. Something not EOLing goes on clearance at a store to make more room for other items, perhaps the place has overstocked. Reseller buys up the stuff and sells it at a profit, but less than RRP.

    Is either scenario above more acceptable than the other? Either way the reseller has committed the "heinous" crime of taking up the store's offer to buy clearanced product. The store doesn't care who buys it in that scenario. Someone who missed out on that bargain wasn't entitled to it. There are some on this forum who feel aggrieved they missed out if someone swoops in, but chances are there were others who'd gotten what they wanted before this person arrived unless they were first in the queue at opening time. There are many more people buying up Lego than just the active members of this forum. If you missed out on the latest non-advertised Tesco clearance, chances are, most of the stock was clearedout by others who were in the right place at the right time. There is no entitlement when it comes to a sale - first come, first served is always the case and that purchaser can do what they like with their purchases. When those items are resold later you'll either pay the price they're asking or you won't. There ar some sets i've missed that I just accept are gone because that reseller who is providing me with the opportunity to buy a long EOLed set is asking for more than i'm prepared to pay for it. Someone else will buy it at that price or the seller will have to drop it.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Can we define "inflated profits"? Is any profit acceptable?

    Actually, there really are people who believe that profit is evil and bad.

    More power to them, but I have yet to see an economic model that actually works without it.

    Walmart has a profit margin of 5.8%, so does that make them "good", for making so little money on each sale?

    If a mom and pop hardware store makes 50% margins, does that make them "evil"?

    As you pointed out, a lot of the gruff is from people who didn't get the sale or clearance item themselves, and if they missed it because little Timmy bought it, they don't mind, but if someone out for profits got it, then that is just not acceptable.

    People are funny creatures, making illogical decisions like that. :)

    I'm sure I've been guilty of it from time to time as well, at some point in my life.
    CCC
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,759


    Is any profit acceptable?

    For me, anything less than 50% profit is not acceptable.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^Agreed. We sell professional hair products at our salon and anything less than 50% profit isn't worth it. Most of the other expensive salons mark up their products 120%...because they can.
  • sadowsk1sadowsk1 Member Posts: 124
    edited October 2012
    mressin said:

    Now, let's get to a real problem: Since it's ok to brag about how charitable a person one is ( @sadowsk1), let me tell you about all the sales I did not participate in! All the children who got cheap Lego because of me - I am so proud! <- sarcasm</p>

    I don't think you understand what charity is.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ did you not see his big sarcasm font note at the end?
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    @Pitfall69 You are evil, but at least you are not as evil as the "expensive" salons.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^Lol. Our prices are the same as Walmart actually, but I am not sure where Walmart gets their products. I heard they get them from a third party distributor and aren't making that much money on each product sold, they just sell a lot of them. If it makes you feel any better, we pay your sales tax (6%) and so we are actually cheaper than Walmart :-)
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^ Free shipping too? Points?
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