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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,479

    CCC said:

    Good for whom?

    It is good for the AFOL (or kid) that missed the set as they can get it later (although at a cost).

    It is very good for the reseller that charges 2xRRP or more.

    Would you prefer the set be 5xRRP because no one went out and bought them to reseller later, so the only MISB copies are those that were bought for personal use and later sold due to lack of interest, time, etc.?

    On one hand, we talk about the glut of resellers holding down aftermarket prices, on the other, they are "bad" for aftermarket sets somehow?

    You can't have it both ways. :)

    Look at MMV? It can still be had for close to RRP 9 months post retirement. That is largely because of the huge number of sets stocked by resellers.

    That is good for AFOLs who missed it and now want a copy. A few years ago that would have been an instant $200 set.
    So is that good for lego? People buying MMV at RRP from a reseller instead of a different set at the same price from lego. At best it is ambivalent for lego. They sold a set to a retailer, who sold it on clearance to a reseller, who sold it on to a AFOL after EOL.

    I can see it is good for the AFOL. And good for the reseller who bought it cheaply.

    But if it is not good for lego, why would they want it to continue by giving resellers larger discounts than they already get through clearance sales or from supermarkets?

    You want to change the way lego deals with resellers, saying it is good for everyone. I fail to see how lego benefits in the scenario above. And they are the key player. They do what is good for them.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588

    pvancil27 said:

    I guess my irritation is when people on either side refuse to accept that the other is in anyway right.

    I am not one of them, I totally get the downsides to resellers, and believe it or not, I understand some of the reasons TLG is going after them.

    I just think they are going about it the wrong way.

    My personal opinion? To cut down on the "bad parts" of resellers, you must build up the "good parts" of resellers.

    You can't take without giving, that is the way of things, and right now it is all take.

    Support the good that resellers do (offering large amounts of MISB product after EOL to AFOLs) and you'll have fewer problems with the bad short term flipping of current sets (which I get is the real problem).
    It's why I love debating you, you have a different but well constructed outlook then myself and you are very willing to talk about it. It may seem like I pick on you, but it's cause you are so quotable. ;)
    CCC said:


    Support the good that resellers do (offering large amounts of MISB product after EOL to AFOLs) and you'll have fewer problems with the bad short term flipping of current sets (which I get is the real problem).

    Good for whom?

    It is good for the AFOL (or kid) that missed the set as they can get it later (although at a cost).

    It is very good for the reseller that charges 2xRRP or more.

    But it probably means that money is not spent direct with lego / on current lego. Of course, lego make the initial sale to the reseller, but if they offer resellers discounts on RRP, then it means that they are not getting full value for that set - which they possibly would have done if the AFOL had bought it direct.
    I think the Extra money spent on past product being taken away from current product is a very interesting POV and one I hadn't thought of. Going back to LFT's Lego working with re-sellers idea, I think this would be a very large hurdle that Lego wouldnt want to do. Basically they would be providing profits to another person at the cost of their own. One reason I have stuck to the SW only line and not gotten into say modulars or other big sets like TB or SOH is I spend what little i can afford after keeping up with current SW sets on past product. If I didnt have to pay the premium (and I buy Used sets) I'd probably get into some more lines.

    CCC said:

    Good for whom?

    It is good for the AFOL (or kid) that missed the set as they can get it later (although at a cost).

    It is very good for the reseller that charges 2xRRP or more.

    Would you prefer the set be 5xRRP because no one went out and bought them to reseller later, so the only MISB copies are those that were bought for personal use and later sold due to lack of interest, time, etc.?

    On one hand, we talk about the glut of resellers holding down aftermarket prices, on the other, they are "bad" for aftermarket sets somehow?

    You can't have it both ways. :)

    Look at MMV? It can still be had for close to RRP 9 months post retirement. That is largely because of the huge number of sets stocked by resellers.

    That is good for AFOLs who missed it and now want a copy. A few years ago that would have been an instant $200 set.
    I think he was pointing out that re-sellers really do nothing for Lego. There is some value to collectors by making more product available but It actually most likely cuts into Legos pocket some.
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    CCC said:


    Support the good that resellers do (offering large amounts of MISB product after EOL to AFOLs) and you'll have fewer problems with the bad short term flipping of current sets (which I get is the real problem).

    Good for whom?

    It is good for the AFOL (or kid) that missed the set as they can get it later (although at a cost).

    It is very good for the reseller that charges 2xRRP or more.

    But it probably means that money is not spent direct with lego / on current lego. Of course, lego make the initial sale to the reseller, but if they offer resellers discounts on RRP, then it means that they are not getting full value for that set - which they possibly would have done if the AFOL had bought it direct.
    Typically, if there are discounts on sets, the initial EOL offer will be less due to a lower broad RRP. Again, resellers buying sets at discounts CAN keep prices down, along with stock surplus.

    Who should get discounts? If no one gets discounts anymore...then the EOL offers will trend higher initially. Either way you spin it, the AFOL is going to "suffer." Hey, I love getting my Lego at any discount I can manage, but if I really like a set, it will go full RRP as soon as I can get my hot hands on it. That doesnt happen as often as waiting patiently, but it happens.

    There is a coin flip for just about any scenario involving the reselling of sets.
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    It's good for Lego to work with resellers IF THEY WANT CONTROL over the aftermarket, which has nothing to do with them. Once a product is sold (whether to a kid, reseller, fan or whatever) then they part stops there. It doesn't matter what the buyer does with their purchase, from there on it's not their concern, nor do they have any right to make it so.

    A seller cannot tell a buyer what to do with their purchase. If I want to buy a car and crash it into the wall the moment I buy it, it's my problem, and no one can tell me what to do with it.

    And concerning discounts, they have to give discounts if the want retailers to keep selling their product. If a retailer gets 10 Jabbas and are forced to sell at RRP, they will sell one every now and then so instead of restocking they will get something else instead which is profitable, not something that is crowding their shelves. Lego is not the king of the universe, nor are they the key player, if they want control over a market they have to play by the rules of those dealing in that market. A compromise is needed, they can't just barge in and tell others what to do.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,479
    edited August 2013
    jasor said:


    Typically, if there are discounts on sets, the initial EOL offer will be less due to a lower broad RRP. Again, resellers buying sets at discounts CAN keep prices down, along with stock surplus.

    Who should get discounts? If no one gets discounts anymore...then the EOL offers will trend higher initially. Either way you spin it, the AFOL is going to "suffer."

    I agree. But if prices trend too high, then people won't buy. They will buy current lego instead unless they really, really want that EOL set.

    I still don't see how Lego benefits though, and as they are the first link in the chain they must get a better deal to make them want to change the way they do business. I don't see how giving bigger discounts to resellers is going to get them more money in the long term. And if that doesn't happen, then they are not going to change.

    I can come up with a model that is at first sight beneficial to a reseller. I buy the stock I pick and choose from him at 1.25x RRP when it has been gone from [email protected] for one month, guaranteeing a minimum spend (subject to him having sets I want). He makes at least 25% on every set sold to me and doesn't have to store it for so long. 25% guaranteed profit on every set sold to me with a short storage time. That sounds great, doesn't it?

    Would @LFT take that deal? I somehow doubt it.
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    CCC said:


    I can come up with a model that is at first sight beneficial to a reseller. I buy the stock I pick and choose from him at 1.25x RRP when it has been gone from [email protected] for one month, guaranteeing a minimum spend (subject to him having sets I want). He makes at least 25% on every set sold to me and doesn't have to store it for so long. 25% guaranteed profit on every set sold to me with a short storage time. That sounds great, doesn't it?

    That's not much of a deal, since you didn't consider the taxes and other costs involved. Suppose you make the transaction on ebay with paypal payment. That's about 15% getting you to 1.15xRRP instantly. Add govt. tax, gas if applicable, or maybe the set was bought online without free shipping. So your offer might make the seller lose money, not get a guaranteed 25% profit.
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 727
    This discussion quoted from the discontinuing thread, but moved here for proper placement. @dougts
    dougts said:

    yes, I've seen 79006 at Freddy's. I bought several of them at a couple locations earlier in the month on the 20% plus 15% coupon. Haven't looked this week however.

    One of those locations Newberg? How many are several? ALL the LOTR were gone when I got there. This is one reason why resellers aren't builder's favorite people. dougts might not have depleated the stock, but the perception is there. As far as my ability to get to the store, I have other life activities that have priority over buying Lego.
    dougts said:

    i have the 20%, didn't know about FF - great deal if I can get it to work

    I was the one that posted the 20% plus 15% deal that you didn't know about. What is the end result? I now don't feel like posting Fred Meyer deals that I find (I did PM a couple of people who are builders) What does that do for this online community if people like me who will never resell, feel that sharing with the community is a disadvantage? I specifically am collecting LOTR/Hobbit that I can find at a reasonable price, while they are in production, because I have a fifty year affection for the books and want to MOC all kinds of scenes. I never wipe out the shelf, even on clearance :-)

    I have bought retired sets from resellers and paid the premium without regret, but the sucking up of deals from the current offerings sours the AFOL and reseller relationship.
    rocaoEKSamcheshirecat
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    vitreolum said:

    It's good for Lego to work with resellers IF THEY WANT CONTROL over the aftermarket, which has nothing to do with them. Once a product is sold (whether to a kid, reseller, fan or whatever) then they part stops there. It doesn't matter what the buyer does with their purchase, from there on it's not their concern, nor do they have any right to make it so.

    It actually is their concern, if the person who bought the item may use that item to block future sales.

    Using the car lot idea, you are right, if you buy a car and go run it into a wall, they dont care. But if you own a car lot across the street, and go buy 50 Corvettes for 35% off during their labor day sale then Turn around and put them on your lot for sale, the dealership would have a major problem because you are costing them business.
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    It may be their concern, but not the buyers. They can't dictate anyone what to do with their purchases, whether it was bought 90% off or above retail.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    ^ why the heck would YOU do that deal. if you know what you want to buy a month after EOL, just buy it a month before at RRP...
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    edited August 2013
    No, but that is a damn good reason why Lego would not want to basically help fund an aftermarket re-seller, and a damn good reason why they frown on the practice.

    I really am kinda sad I never thought of this point of view. Kudos @CCC
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    edited August 2013
    pvancil27 said:

    Pitfall69 said:

    ^Yes, they do, both positively and negatively. The question really is, how much do resellers affect the consumer in each way?

    Now THIS is a good questions. People like me obviously feel the negative impact is greater then the positive and other feel the positive outweighs the negative.

    I guess my irritation is when people on either side refuse to accept that the other is in anyway right.

    I have only had positive experiences with resellers. I was able to buy 2 large sets that I missed out on at a time when money was tight. I'm sure it is a case by case scenario. I had no interest in Minecraft and no interest in #41999. I did however try to buy one crawler because after some research, it looked neat.

    Pitfall69 said:

    ^Yes, they do, both positively and negatively. The question really is, how much do resellers affect the consumer in each way?

    I thought the question was "in what positive way?"
    I don't think there was a question there? I just asked the question based on @Yellowcastle s comments.

    @klatu003. I'm sorry for your misfortune. If you choose not to post a deal in the US Buying thread for fear of you not taking advantage of the same deal, that is up to you. It is nice that people do this for others in the community.

    As I said before, Lego is not something you need and you can live without it. You don't have the right to life, liberty and Lego.


    TheLoneTensor
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    klatu003 said:

    This discussion quoted from the discontinuing thread, but moved here for proper placement. @dougts

    dougts said:

    yes, I've seen 79006 at Freddy's. I bought several of them at a couple locations earlier in the month on the 20% plus 15% coupon. Haven't looked this week however.

    One of those locations Newberg? How many are several? ALL the LOTR were gone when I got there. This is one reason why resellers aren't builder's favorite people. dougts might not have depleated the stock, but the perception is there. As far as my ability to get to the store, I have other life activities that have priority over buying Lego.
    dougts said:

    i have the 20%, didn't know about FF - great deal if I can get it to work

    I was the one that posted the 20% plus 15% deal that you didn't know about. What is the end result? I now don't feel like posting Fred Meyer deals that I find (I did PM a couple of people who are builders) What does that do for this online community if people like me who will never resell, feel that sharing with the community is a disadvantage? I specifically am collecting LOTR/Hobbit that I can find at a reasonable price, while they are in production, because I have a fifty year affection for the books and want to MOC all kinds of scenes. I never wipe out the shelf, even on clearance :-)

    I have bought retired sets from resellers and paid the premium without regret, but the sucking up of deals from the current offerings sours the AFOL and reseller relationship.
    First, thank you for posting that deal.

    Second, every LOTR set I bought with it was immediately opened and added to my building collection, not stashed for later resale.

    I bought a total of 3 of the 79006s, at 3 different Fred Meyers, one of them was Newberg. I can tell you this - Newberg (or Wilsonville or Tualatin) did not have ANY of the new LOTR sets on the shelf that entire week until sometime during the very last day of the FF coupon (a Thursday if memory serves). I went in there about 8:30 pm and bought 1x 79006 (the last one), 2x black gate, and 2x pirate ship. And a Jek 14 I think. when I left there was still stock remaining of both the black gate and pirate ships, and again the sale only had about 2 hours remaining on it at that point in time.

    I haven't attempted to go back to any FM this week for the 20% + 10% sale.

    EKSam
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    @klatu003 If you are interested, I would be happy to pass on the pieces (plus stickers, plus instructions) from a 79006 to you at the cost I paid during that sale. I haven't sorted the pieces into my collection yet, so it's easy enough to do (thought the bags have been opened). I was planning on selling the minifigs, so if you don't want them, I can keep those and discount the parts even further.
    EKSam
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,479
    dougts said:

    ^ why the heck would YOU do that deal. if you know what you want to buy a month after EOL, just buy it a month before at RRP...

    How do you know when EOL is? You only know after the event unless you are told beforehand. That is just one reason it would be a bad deal for the original seller, since they could have money tied up for years. And also have to store it all that time, if they buy at the wrong time.
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 727
    @Pitfall69 No, I did not suffer any misfortune. I will acquire all the Lego I desire and all the LOTR Lego I desire. I was just throwing some non-reseller perspective into the "The Community Perspective on Reselling" thread, in case any resellers are interested.

    I like helping other's find deals. I enjoyed sharing the 20% + FF deal and that others were able to use it. Even dougts :-) But finding out that there are people in your patch sucking up the same product you want makes it feel like a competition instead of a collaboration.

    I didn't find any LOTR at the store, but I handed my coupons to the Mom that was there with a boy who had a nice Chima set in his arms and a girl who had I think a Monster High doll. Mom didn't know about the coupons and 28% is a nice discount.

    @dougts - Thanks for the offer, but I'll find another one sooner or later for a decent price. I want to replace Arwen's ugly hairpiece with Elrond's. Aren't the white arches in that set great? I apologize to you personally, because I think my post sounded like I was calling you out and you felt the need to explain that you were just collecting for your own stash. That wasn't my intent.
    EKSamdougtsCoolsplashCam_n_StuPhonebooth
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    ^ hey, no worries. I'm sorry you didn't find something. I certainly strike out at FM more than I get lucky when these double coupon deals come up. I almost didn't even go back that last night, but figured I should give it one more shot, and hey, got lucky.

    Unfortunately I haven't built anything with those pieces yet - but I look forward to it, as yes, they are fantastic, as is the foliage, pearl gold pieces, and a few other items
    klatu003EKSam
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    dougts said:

    First, thank you for posting that deal.

    Second, every LOTR set I bought with it was immediately opened and added to my building collection, not stashed for later resale.

    I bought a total of 3 of the 79006s, at 3 different Fred Meyers, one of them was Newberg. I can tell you this - Newberg (or Wilsonville or Tualatin) did not have ANY of the new LOTR sets on the shelf that entire week until sometime during the very last day of the FF coupon (a Thursday if memory serves). I went in there about 8:30 pm and bought 1x 79006 (the last one), 2x black gate, and 2x pirate ship. And a Jek 14 I think. when I left there was still stock remaining of both the black gate and pirate ships, and again the sale only had about 2 hours remaining on it at that point in time.

    I haven't attempted to go back to any FM this week for the 20% + 10% sale.

    @dougts: you've always struck me as a fair, honest, and courteous reseller. That said, it's interesting that you defended these purchases as being for building and not for resale. Does that suggest you recognize a difference between these pursuits, or are you just informing klatu003 because he does?
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    rocao said:

    dougts said:

    First, thank you for posting that deal.

    Second, every LOTR set I bought with it was immediately opened and added to my building collection, not stashed for later resale.

    I bought a total of 3 of the 79006s, at 3 different Fred Meyers, one of them was Newberg. I can tell you this - Newberg (or Wilsonville or Tualatin) did not have ANY of the new LOTR sets on the shelf that entire week until sometime during the very last day of the FF coupon (a Thursday if memory serves). I went in there about 8:30 pm and bought 1x 79006 (the last one), 2x black gate, and 2x pirate ship. And a Jek 14 I think. when I left there was still stock remaining of both the black gate and pirate ships, and again the sale only had about 2 hours remaining on it at that point in time.

    I haven't attempted to go back to any FM this week for the 20% + 10% sale.

    @dougts: you've always struck me as a fair, honest, and courteous reseller. That said, it's interesting that you defended these purchases as being for building and not for resale. Does that suggest you recognize a difference between these pursuits, or are you just informing klatu003 because he does?
    I read this interchange as: "I posted a deal to the community, and a reseller clean-sweeped me." Then: "Thanks for the deal, but for clarity...I didnt clean-sweep, and also...these are for my own collection anway."

    The tone wasn't intended, but perceived as a slight at first. I could be completely wrong , though. Trust me, I hear I am all day.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    rocao said:

    dougts said:

    First, thank you for posting that deal.

    Second, every LOTR set I bought with it was immediately opened and added to my building collection, not stashed for later resale.

    I bought a total of 3 of the 79006s, at 3 different Fred Meyers, one of them was Newberg. I can tell you this - Newberg (or Wilsonville or Tualatin) did not have ANY of the new LOTR sets on the shelf that entire week until sometime during the very last day of the FF coupon (a Thursday if memory serves). I went in there about 8:30 pm and bought 1x 79006 (the last one), 2x black gate, and 2x pirate ship. And a Jek 14 I think. when I left there was still stock remaining of both the black gate and pirate ships, and again the sale only had about 2 hours remaining on it at that point in time.

    I haven't attempted to go back to any FM this week for the 20% + 10% sale.

    @dougts: you've always struck me as a fair, honest, and courteous reseller. That said, it's interesting that you defended these purchases as being for building and not for resale. Does that suggest you recognize a difference between these pursuits, or are you just informing klatu003 because he does?
    Thank you for the compliment, I try to live up that to what you describe. I could share stories of things this "evil reseller" has done with some of my LEGO discounted purchases, freebies, and other items, but I find boasting about such things distasteful. The staff at my local LEGO store knows who I am and how I operate, so that is what matters.

    I would say that it was primarily because klatu003 took it that way, and I felt the desire to clear the record in this case. Of course, in a different scenario on a different day, the reason for my purchase may have been for later resale, and being honest, I probably would have bought multiples in that case as well, so I'm not claiming any kind of sainthood here.

    Also being honest, I do recognize the difference between the two I suppose. The end result to any potential buyer who arrives after me is the same, so from a purely logical standpoint, there is absolutely zero difference. However, I'm a LEGO fan. If the roles were reversed and I found out the buyer bought multiples for a MOC that would have been emotionally more acceptable to me than if I found out they bought them for resale. Either way, I didn't get what I wanted, but I suppose I would be happy the builder did in the first case, and jealous I didn't score the profit opportunity in the second case. ;-)

    YellowcastleEKSamindigoboxjasor
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    edited August 2013
    I perceived it as "sour grapes" as well, but didn't want to get the cart before the horse, so I didn't comment further.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    edited August 2013
    Let's not try not to get caught up in "I'm justified in clearing the shelves because I gave all the sets to charity". The end result is still the same. "Klatimmy" (I'm kidding with you) still didn't get a chance to get the deal. The reason I say this is because someone still wasn't able to grab a set because of any of the following: MOCer's, charity, sets for the Duggar Family, LUG show, reselling.The end result is still the same correct?

    I think that was @rocao was getting at, but I may be wrong. If there are differences, then this is a whole other argument entirely.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,110
    exactly, which was a point I tried to make clear. Logically, there is not a difference in the world
    Pitfall69
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    As you guys know, I'm not good with trying to get my point across. I'm glad someone got me for once ;)
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,027
    @dougts Logic? Come on. Didn't we all give up on that re this subject long ago? ;-)
    Pitfall69dougtsindigoboxjasor
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    why focus on the end result? Motive or even behaviour is almost always more important.

    When my child drops his dinner on the floor, what he was doing at the time or if he meant to do it are always the issue, yet in both cases the end result is picking bits of fluff from the chicken and wiping tomato sauce from the wall.

    At the other end of the scale if you kill someone it will matter so much about your motive that you could walk away or spend the rest of your life locked up.

    Society has determined that for actions within a community motive or behaviour is critical in understandung or determining blame or fault.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    edited August 2013
    Yes, I understand, but this is what I was trying to avoid. Now every Lego purchase we make comes with an asterisk.

    Personally, I don't care what your intentions are when purchasing Lego or if you clear the shelves.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,550

    why focus on the end result? Motive or even behaviour is almost always more important.

    When my child drops his dinner on the floor, what he was doing at the time or if he meant to do it are always the issue, yet in both cases the end result is picking bits of fluff from the chicken and wiping tomato sauce from the wall.

    At the other end of the scale if you kill someone it will matter so much about your motive that you could walk away or spend the rest of your life locked up.

    Society has determined that for actions within a community motive or behaviour is critical in understandung or determining blame or fault.

    So we look at motive and find no immoral or unethical difference. Whether they're buying to build with or buying to resell later, there's not difference that separates the motives into good or bad. Selfish you might say? Are they buying selfishly to make money or selfishly to build for themselves? It's all the same.
  • Cam_n_StuCam_n_Stu UKMember Posts: 368
    What an interesting debate. Although I suspect *we* collectively are the only ones who view the purchase of LEGO in this way. Most parents and resellers will view it as a plastic toy commodity that is either in stock or out of stock. The reasons never get a second thought.

    I real-terms I wonder what the percentages are for regular sets (not Exclusives etc) sold to AFOLs and to Resellers. I suspect pretty low and maybe even potentially less than the retailers shrinkage allowance in a lot of cases!
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,234
    I don't think there's much of a practical distinction between buying for MOCs, Building, Parts or Resale.

    Obviously, MISB collecting is the only acceptable behavior. ;o)
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,331
    edited August 2013
    ^^^ in your opinion thst might be the case, in others they may see an ethical or moral difference. Similarly there may be a difference between clearing a shelf of minecrafts for resale and clearing a shelf of fire brigades for resale.

    Not sure if its entirely related but I, and i expect others, will go out of my way to help someone get a set or pab cup if its for building and enjoying but wouldnt be inclined to do it for someone to resell. Clearly there is a difference there and i expect it can carry over.
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 727
    @Pitfalll69 - Klatimmy ;-0 Maybe the mods will let me change my handle? A type of fish consumed by reseller-sharks? A cacaphony of sour grapes? All in good fun :-)
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,550
    edited August 2013

    ^^^ in your opinion thst might be the case, in others they may see an ethical or moral difference. Similarly there may be a difference between clearing a shelf of minecrafts for resale and clearing a shelf of fire brigades for resale.

    There is no moral or ethical difference. We're not talking about food or clean water or some other necessity of life; we're talking about plastic toys. There is nothing immoral or unethical about buying that which is for sale.

    Not sure if its entirely related but I, and i expect others, will go out of my way to help someone get a set or pab cup if its for building and enjoying but wouldnt be inclined to do it for someone to resell. Clearly there is a difference there and i expect it can carry over.

    That's generous or charitable but it's not a simple question of morality or ethics. It might be moral to help others but that doesn't make the inverse immoral.


  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 1,996

    ^^^ in your opinion thst might be the case, in others they may see an ethical or moral difference. Similarly there may be a difference between clearing a shelf of minecrafts for resale and clearing a shelf of fire brigades for resale.

    I think this is the crux of the issue for me, and probably one that can never be resolved satisfactorily due to everyone's moral compass being different.

    For me personally, I'd have no problem buying five Fire Brigades or Jabba's Palaces on sale/clearance, but if I did the same (even at RRP) with Minecraft last year or 41999 more recently, I'd feel more than a little scum-baggy.

    That's not to say I expect people who bought up more than they were allowed (or even bought one solely for the quick flip) to feel the same, just as I expect there are people that see no distinction between which sets are being bought to resell, but I do think there's enough evidence in the case of Minecraft to support the notion that resellers were actively preventing many sets from getting directly to the consumer - which I think most would agree was doing more harm than good, especially for those who would justify reselling as a service to the consumer (and I actually agree it usually is... though not necessarily to ALL consumers).
    rocaocheshirecatjasor
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,550

    Not sure if its entirely related but I, and i expect others, will go out of my way to help someone get a set or pab cup if its for building and enjoying but wouldnt be inclined to do it for someone to resell. Clearly there is a difference there and i expect it can carry over.

    Actually the more I read this, I'd say it's neither moral nor charitable. Your help is conditional based upon your bigotry, ie. your approval of the person's motives even though those motives are not illegal, immoral or unethical. Hence your action isn't really charitable or moral since you've chosen to use it as a means of expressing your bias.


  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited August 2013
    ^That's the same principal as saying a person helped another to primarily feel good about themselves with the help as a side effect, therefore negating any goodwill on that person's part to initiate such action in the first part. It's not a false point, but simultaneously it is not wholly true either. Some things or actions should be taken for face value for what they are, especially if benevolent in nature.
    jasor
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,550
    I didn't say that they acted with malice, only that their charity isn't really charity since it comes with a price. The same goes for religious charities that help the poor but turn away homosexuals who are homeless. It ceases to be charity when there are conditions attached that have nothing to do with the action itself whether that's helping someone acquire a toy or providing food and shelter to the hungry and homeless.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    klatu003 said:

    @Pitfalll69 - Klatimmy ;-0 Maybe the mods will let me change my handle? A type of fish consumed by reseller-sharks? A cacaphony of sour grapes? All in good fun :-)

    Yeah, it sounded like "sour grapes" and I gave you the benefit of the doubt before I judged and I'm glad because you explained yourself. That is why I'm joking with you ;) No hard feelings right?

  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    About 2 weeks ago my wife and I went to Walmart and they had 12(twelve) 6868 Hulk sets for $35 and 6(six) 6862 Superman sets for $13... I thought about this thread and convinced her to not buy all of them, so she bought 6 of the Hulk sets and 3 of the Superman sets... We went back to that same Walmart last Tuesday and they still had the 6 Hulk sets and 3 Superman sets so we bought them all...

    Was this unethical..?
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,550

    About 2 weeks ago my wife and I went to Walmart and they had 12(twelve) 6868 Hulk sets for $35 and 6(six) 6862 Superman sets for $13... I thought about this thread and convinced her to not buy all of them, so she bought 6 of the Hulk sets and 3 of the Superman sets... We went back to that same Walmart last Tuesday and they still had the 6 Hulk sets and 3 Superman sets so we bought them all...

    Was this unethical..?

    Little Timmy, you lazy bastard! Where were you to grab your sets? Ingrate!
    Pitfall69dougtswagnerml2BumblepantsjasorkhmellymelJP3804Mad_Dogcardgenius
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 727
    @Pittfall69 - none whatsoever. If you post in the shark tank you have to expect a few bites.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,454
    I was just sniffing to see if you were worth a taste ;)
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013
    prof1515 said:

    About 2 weeks ago my wife and I went to Walmart and they had 12(twelve) 6868 Hulk sets for $35 and 6(six) 6862 Superman sets for $13... I thought about this thread and convinced her to not buy all of them, so she bought 6 of the Hulk sets and 3 of the Superman sets... We went back to that same Walmart last Tuesday and they still had the 6 Hulk sets and 3 Superman sets so we bought them all...

    Was this unethical..?

    Little Timmy, you lazy bastard! Where were you to grab your sets? Ingrate!
    And then she parts all of those sets out into her bricklink store and someone from Hong Kong came along and cleared her shelves out of every single one of the minifigues from those sets...

    Was he being unethical..?

    First little Timmy couldn't get a Hulk set and now little Aaron can't even get the Thor minifigure that he wanted... Madness I tell you..
  • greenwithenvygreenwithenvy Banned Posts: 32
    Amazing, that people participate in capitalism and then complain that capitalism is unethical. Capitalism is not unethical and in fact is opportunistic; neither of which are illegal.

    By the way, Lego is a business that is capitalistic. In fact, what business isn't? You'd think some of you were debating which countries in the world get clean water, food, and medicine.

    Some AFOLs here are really petty with their political correctness and finger pointing comments which kind of makes them look very hypocritical.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013



    Some AFOLs here are really petty with their political correctness and finger pointing comments which kind of makes them look very hypocritical.

    That is pretty much all I got out of this thread... Certain types of reselling are perfectly alright, but other types are not... It all depends on people's needs... To me reselling is reselling...

    greenwithenvy
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,404

    Some AFOLs here are really petty with their political correctness

    In my experience, people are generally more "moral" on the Internet than they are in real life.

    Many people say they would turn in $100 found on the ground, and while some people would, I believe fewer would in real life than would say they would here.

    Which is fine, people are emotional funny creatures that like to live in their self-delusions.

    And I don't make any claims to be exempt from that. :)
    Mad_Dog
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013
    Or many times people will think they are being politically correct while honestly not even realizing that they are doing things which are basically the same things that they chastise others for...
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290

    Amazing, that people participate in capitalism and then complain that capitalism is unethical. Capitalism is not unethical and in fact is opportunistic; neither of which are illegal.

    By the way, Lego is a business that is capitalistic. In fact, what business isn't? You'd think some of you were debating which countries in the world get clean water, food, and medicine.

    Some AFOLs here are really petty with their political correctness and finger pointing comments which kind of makes them look very hypocritical.

    First, I don't think anyone was arguing that reseller behavior was illegal.

    Second, ethics vary between people and there is no absolute moral code. Thus, you're not right in saying that capitalism is not unethical, and if you do a web search, you'll get a half a million hits that present a case for capitalism being unethical.

    I see the term "political correctness" thrown out every so often. Do you have an example from this thread of what you consider political correctness?
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 1,996

    Some AFOLs here are really petty with their political correctness

    Many people say they would turn in $100 found on the ground, and while some people would, I believe fewer would in real life than would say they would here.
    Just out of curiosity, do you really believe most people would simply pocket a hundred dollars that they KNOW belongs to someone else? If so, to quote you, 'That's sad, then.'
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    edited August 2013
    ^ well I think it is situational, if the $100 has identification with it (i.e. Wallet etc.) I see the person actually drop it, then I give it back 100%.

    I'm walking down the street with no one around and its a lone $100 note, it goes in my pocket. I have never found $100 but have found a $50 once and $20's and below a few times, I don't think that is sad. Sure it sucks for the person who lost it.

    Obviously the amount makes some difference, what if it was $1000 or $10,000? I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that I'm not taking up my time to go to the Police Station to hand in a $20 or a $50 note.

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