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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    Getting this thread back on track a tad, I was thinking that I can see the exclusives and high brick count set's plummeting in value.
    My investment recommendation is Duplo, lots and lots of Duplo.

    It doesn't take a genius to understand that we are never going to be able to piece all the tiny bits together with our zombie shaky hands.
    LostInTranslationSirKevbagsjasorpharmjod
  • Brick_ObsessionBrick_Obsession in a "Brick" house - Calgary, AlbertaMember Posts: 656
    I never undeerstand why people compare baseball cards to Lego. They are completly different. Sure there are some that are collectible on both sides but that's really where it ends, fast. Baseball cards have one, and only one purpose. That is to be collected, well perhaps coasters too for stuff like A-Rod cards. Lego is a completly different animal. Sure they can be collected, but they are much more diverse. You can build almost anything out of them. Whether it be the original set or something creative like mosiacs, MOC's, furniture, coffee cup holders, and yes, even coasters. I predict you will never see the bubble burst on Lego. It is too versatile and offers many uses for people to express their creativity.
    Pitfall69
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561

    I never undeerstand why people compare baseball cards to Lego. They are completly different. Sure there are some that are collectible on both sides but that's really where it ends, fast. Baseball cards have one, and only one purpose. That is to be collected, well perhaps coasters too for stuff like A-Rod cards. Lego is a completly different animal. Sure they can be collected, but they are much more diverse. You can build almost anything out of them. Whether it be the original set or something creative like mosiacs, MOC's, furniture, coffee cup holders, and yes, even coasters. I predict you will never see the bubble burst on Lego. It is too versatile and offers many uses for people to express their creativity.

    In a sense, the bubble has already burst. Due to the increased popularity and exposure of Lego collecting, a lot more people are doing it including reselling. Coupled with Lego's growing lack of originality in design for the majority of their product line, it's led to an overall drop in the rise of prices in the secondary market. I have sets that were worth over $200 just five years ago and today are worth about $100. I've got some that I bought five years ago that still aren't worth what I paid for them. Prior to a few years ago, that wasn't the case. For the most part, any Lego that you bought and kept in mint condition was worth considerably more. The oversaturation of the market, Lego's redesign rut and the change in public awareness have "burst the bubble" and reshaped the Lego world.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    So, it looks like this thread will remain open for the time being.

    There has been a lot of useful information within this thread. The facinating thing about this lastest resurrection is that I have made some new "friends". It is so hard to judge someones tone when it comes to reading text. A lot of us get fired up and just start typing and then hit send. I'm glad I have been able to have discussions outside this thread about many things. I'm sure a lot of you have too.

    legomatt
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited August 2013
    ^^I agree. There mere fact that "Lego investing" is much more well-known and widespread means that it's more and more difficult to pick/predict the winners. It's gone far beyond simply choosing a set based on its intrinsic properties, as now you have to really focus on many other factors such as how many others are stockpiling (hello FB!), how aware the general consumer is of the set (more forums, sites), how many marketable avenues there are to offer the secondary set (beyond just ebay or bricklink), and so on. Sure these have been around for many years, but you need to focus on them now more than ever before, simply because of the abundance of those that are dipping their feet into the reselling pool.

    That being written, I welcome our new market condition overlords, because that kind of market separates those are intelligent and work hard from those that don't, or are merely lucky.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    tensor said:

    ...because that kind of market separates those are intelligent and work hard from those that don't, or are merely lucky.

    Actually, it's still all about luck because Lego's decisions regarding what they make and remake are a wild card that can't be accounted for.

    Case in point, the last X-wing fighter which was actually gone from Shop-at-Home for a few months after the typical two-year production run only to reappear about half a year later and continue to run for almost six years, far beyond the normal production run of a set. I bought a bunch of them at the end of the original run when they were disappearing/scarce only to see Lego resume production and keep them going until they released a new X-wing. By that time, the extreme number of that set out there coupled with a new one already available (for a few weeks both could be found at Shop-at-Home) meant that the appreciated value of the first was nonexistent and still is for the most part.

    The major factor for almost every successful entrepenuer is luck, be it luck in timing or luck in some other regard. Next is probably a lack of ethics or morality. Intelligence, hard work and a superior product have never really been primary factors in success. Those who do succeed like to claim that they are but that's because saying, "I made it because I was lucky and was a complete and utter bastard" doesn't sound as good. :-)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    prof1515 said:

    The major factor for almost every successful entrepenuer is luck, be it luck in timing or luck in some other regard. Next is probably a lack of ethics or morality.

    Shh, don't tell everyone... they don't like to hear it. :)

    Exhibit A: Walmart

    A nice medium company that was run well for years by Sam Walton, until the kids took over, then changed the corporate mission to: "crush everyone and take over the world".

    :)
    JP3804
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588

    prof1515 said:

    The major factor for almost every successful entrepenuer is luck, be it luck in timing or luck in some other regard. Next is probably a lack of ethics or morality.

    Shh, don't tell everyone... they don't like to hear it. :)

    Exhibit A: Walmart

    A nice medium company that was run well for years by Sam Walton, until the kids took over, then changed the corporate mission to: "crush everyone and take over the world".

    :)
    Contrary, I prefer to hear it. I'll take an honest asshole over a delusional one any day of the week.

    FollowsCloselygreenwithenvy
  • LegofanscottLegofanscott Member Posts: 622
    prof1515 said:

    tensor said:

    ...because that kind of market separates those are intelligent and work hard from those that don't, or are merely lucky.

    Actually, it's still all about luck because Lego's decisions regarding what they make and remake are a wild card that can't be accounted for.

    Case in point, the last X-wing fighter which was actually gone from Shop-at-Home for a few months after the typical two-year production run only to reappear about half a year later and continue to run for almost six years, far beyond the normal production run of a set. I bought a bunch of them at the end of the original run when they were disappearing/scarce only to see Lego resume production and keep them going until they released a new X-wing. By that time, the extreme number of that set out there coupled with a new one already available (for a few weeks both could be found at Shop-at-Home) meant that the appreciated value of the first was nonexistent and still is for the most part.

    The major factor for almost every successful entrepenuer is luck, be it luck in timing or luck in some other regard. Next is probably a lack of ethics or morality. Intelligence, hard work and a superior product have never really been primary factors in success. Those who do succeed like to claim that they are but that's because saying, "I made it because I was lucky and was a complete and utter bastard" doesn't sound as good. :-)
    What i tend to question is:

    When there comes a time when its no longer worth being a reseller due to there being so many, there will be no point in being a reseller, would everyone then just be reselling for fun considering there will be virtually zero profits to be made anymore?
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited August 2013
    That will not happen. I personally have not seen one set in my collection lose value. What I mean is that whatever I paid for a set (may or may not been purchased at RRP)I have yet to lose money.

    Eventually stock runs out and then you will see a rise in prices.
  • LegofanscottLegofanscott Member Posts: 622
    Pitfall69 said:

    That will not happen. I personally have not seen one set in my collection lose value. What I mean is that whatever I paid for a set (may or may not been purchased at RRP)I have yet to lose money.

    But even if you are not losing money, if you are reselling a set and getting back exactly what you paid for it a few years post retirement, what is the point in doing it anymore?, but i imagine even then people will be buying 10, 20 or 30 of a given set.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    Profits will diminish for sure, but by how much is the question? There was a discussion in the "Predictions" thread about how much money is a person's time worth. If you can make $20 on a set after fees and shipping, it is still a profit, but is it worth your time. Probably not if you only have 10 of the sets, but what if you have 300?
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    prof1515 said:

    The major factor for almost every successful entrepenuer is luck, be it luck in timing or luck in some other regard. Next is probably a lack of ethics or morality. Intelligence, hard work and a superior product have never really been primary factors in success. Those who do succeed like to claim that they are but that's because saying, "I made it because I was lucky and was a complete and utter bastard" doesn't sound as good. :-)

    I couldn't disagree more. Luck only enhances what you already have for better or for worse. Luck is what the ignorant or lazy man relies on.

    "I never did anything by accident, nor did any of my inventions come by accident; they came by work." - Thomas Edison
    jasor
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    The point of that is being able to get rid of an old set you no longer want/no longer has room in you collection and getting a new one instead without pumping more money.

    But that will not be the case, eventually supply will diminish after EOL even if everyone stocked on them since the sets are not produced anymore. It will just take a lot longer before you can make a profit.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    vitreolum said:

    The point of that is being able to get rid of an old set you no longer want/no longer has room in you collection and getting a new one instead without pumping more money.

    But that will not be the case, eventually supply will diminish after EOL even if everyone stocked on them since the sets are not produced anymore. It will just take a lot longer before you can make a profit.

    And that's why if you're investing in Lego, you should always consider other manners of investing. If you can double your money on the DS, but it takes 7 years to do so, there are other investments that may be more appealing.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    tensor said:

    I couldn't disagree more. Luck only enhances what you already have for better or for worse. Luck is what the ignorant or lazy man relies on.

    And that is the deciding factor between success and failure. However, consider all of the unremarkable people that have success despite not the smallest shred of ability. Plenty of ignorant people have made it very far. If you doubt that I have only to point to you the 2012 slate of Republican Presidential nominees, not a one of which had intelligence nor worked hard to get where they were. Luck, whether it's being born into wealth or being in the right place at the right time but certainly not intelligence or hard work, is what separated them from others. That and a near or total lack of ethics and morals.
    tensor said:

    "I never did anything by accident, nor did any of my inventions come by accident; they came by work." - Thomas Edison

    A perfect example of my point. Edison didn't do the work of research and development of most of the patents that he holds. He had a team of men working on them and yet for all their hard work, can you name them?
    hissingsid99
  • chuxtoyboxchuxtoybox Member Posts: 711
    edited August 2013
    Of all the words, why change "HATRED" to "REDACTED"?

    An honest question. I had to look up the definition of redacted because I thought maybe the mods were trying to disguise this thread by making up words.

    Redact means to edit, so how does the phrase "Why so much edited towards resellers?" make any sense. No definitions I found of the word would make any sense. Hatred is a noun. Redacted is a verb.

    Why not: "Why is There So Much Controversy Over Reselling?"
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ in written form, you will often see the word redacted used in place of whatever word/sentence the editor was trying to block. Usually this is for censorship or security (top secret) purposes. But in any case, the use of the word in the way the mods have done is correct and in line with normal conventions.

    It probably would have been wise to use {REDACTED} instead.
    pillpod
  • chuxtoyboxchuxtoybox Member Posts: 711
    dougts said:

    ^ in written form, you will often see the word redacted used in place of whatever word/sentence the editor was trying to block. Usually this is for censorship or security (top secret) purposes. But in any case, the use of the word in the way the mods have done is correct and in line with normal conventions.

    It probably would have been wise to use {REDACTED} instead.

    O.K. Now THAT makes sense! Sort of.

  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    But still should be put back to the original, it makes no sense now to anyone new to the discussion.
    chuxtoybox
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    prof1515 said:

    tensor said:

    I couldn't disagree more. Luck only enhances what you already have for better or for worse. Luck is what the ignorant or lazy man relies on.

    And that is the deciding factor between success and failure. However, consider all of the unremarkable people that have success despite not the smallest shred of ability. Plenty of ignorant people have made it very far. If you doubt that I have only to point to you the 2012 slate of Republican Presidential nominees, not a one of which had intelligence nor worked hard to get where they were. Luck, whether it's being born into wealth or being in the right place at the right time but certainly not intelligence or hard work, is what separated them from others. That and a near or total lack of ethics and morals.
    tensor said:

    "I never did anything by accident, nor did any of my inventions come by accident; they came by work." - Thomas Edison

    A perfect example of my point. Edison didn't do the work of research and development of most of the patents that he holds. He had a team of men working on them and yet for all their hard work, can you name them?
    If only Tesla had beaten Edison to the punch...I agree with @tensor, however. If you have 20 resellers running around buying up everything, and trying to flip it...the 2-3 that pay attention rise from the rest of the group.

    I'm not a reseller, much, at all...but I am a buyer of EOL'd sets. I personally really really like the other 17 resellers out there. ;P
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited August 2013
    prof1515 said:

    tensor said:

    "I never did anything by accident, nor did any of my inventions come by accident; they came by work." - Thomas Edison

    A perfect example of my point. Edison didn't do the work of research and development of most of the patents that he holds. He had a team of men working on them and yet for all their hard work, can you name them?
    Perhaps. Suffice to say, one could argue that the team as a whole wouldn't have done what they did without Edison leading them. Proper delegation ability is among the greatest asset any leader can possess. Indeed, "hard work" can take many forms.
  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118

    But still should be put back to the original, it makes no sense now to anyone new to the discussion.

    At the same time, the original use of anger seemed like a prerequisite for some comments. I agree, it doesn't make much sense, but it also piques one's curiosity. I feel for the poor soul who wades though the conversation from start to finish.

    Strangely enough the word pique can go either way.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,245
    The "redacted" is a long running joke in the forum. The title change was not permanent. That being said, I'll be doing quite a bit of carving later as you folks have zombified the inventive bubble out of this thread. ;o)

    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
    sidersddPitfall69pharmjod
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,548
    edited August 2013
    Actually, serious point for a moment -

    I know, I know, don't worry, I'll be back to spouting harmless gibberish soon enough...

    This Thread: It should probably be binned now. And replaced with a catch-all 'reseller chat' (if we're keeping it at all), to accomodate those who want to talk all-things 'resales-y'. People who have no positive contribution to make, or interest in it, can leave it alone.

    As to the question 'why so much anger towards', which though loaded in the first place, (assuming, as it does, that there was anger and therefore was only likely to entice those most vehemently opposed to vent reasons why).. where was i... oh yes, the question 'why so much' has been answered. It probably should have been dealt with in the first few pages, as it is a rather inflammatory question... it 'goads' people into a fight... albeit unintended, no doubt.

    The fairer question would perhaps have been "is there any anger/resentment/bad feeling/towards...". And the simplest answer appears to be 'probably yes, by some, to varying degrees of severity'.

    So, lets just leave it at that, eh? Those with an interest in re-selling have their dedicated chat thread, free from provocation or name-calling, while refraining from making reselling-related reference/discussion in other threads.

    Does that sound reasonable and fair?

    - I stand totally on the fence. I have no axe to grind, one way or the other - .

    Now, my silliness shall resume:

    Flibbertygloop!


    MatthewLegoMom1Legobutterfly
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I must tell you that I got insulted for my...ahem...humor. So, you are not safe either ;)
  • legomattlegomatt Member Posts: 2,548
    That's comedy for ya'. Sometimes you get laughs galore, other times bottles of p*ss.

    :oP
    Legobutterfly
  • goshe7goshe7 Columbus, Ohio, USAMember Posts: 515


    What i tend to question is:

    When there comes a time when its no longer worth being a reseller due to there being so many, there will be no point in being a reseller, would everyone then just be reselling for fun considering there will be virtually zero profits to be made anymore?

    I will. It is hard for me to relax and do nothing; my mind always wanders back to the stress sources of the day. Sorting and pulling orders takes enough focus that I can concentrate on that, getting a break from the usual stress. Combine that with some cherry picking pending store inventory for my personal building and collection and there are two very good reasons for me to continue at my modest rate of reselling. "Profit" is just a nice bonus, but not my motivation for selling.

  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    I can multitask between designing new things, finding gold, and stealing from my wife's bricklink store at the same time...
  • LegoMom1LegoMom1 Member Posts: 652
    And yet another title change. How is a girl to keep up? ;)
  • rancorbaitrancorbait Manitoba CanadaMember Posts: 1,850
    I must be the only one that visits this thread to read the comment about stuff that's not related to the title whatsoever. :-)
  • jon_kjon_k UKMember Posts: 233
    this could titled " you are making it up as you go along" thread..
  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118
    I can see it now - the title of the reselling thread changes every week so that those members who wish to discuss reselling and/or other various topics will have to hunt for the thread.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    Next week's title suggestion: How to Train Your Dragon to Understand Reselling.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,245
    Upon numerous requests, the thread title was changed to something that would hopefully elicit more of a positive dialogue like that which we had last week. All other titles are EOL and only available at a significant premium in the secondary market.
    klatu003TheLoneTensorkhmellymel
  • LegoMom1LegoMom1 Member Posts: 652
    prof1515 said:

    Next week's title suggestion: How to Train Your Dragon to Understand Reselling.

    Followed by, "Is Your Dragon For or Against Reselling?"

    Legobutterfly
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    So, was in Smiths this morning with my son to pick up the free poly.
    Guy behind me talking loudly to someone who looked like they didn't really want to be part of the conversation "Yeah, gonna get as many as possible, these things just fly off ebay"...
    Leave my son feeling S11 poly's to try to find the Tiki warrior, and go buy 2 papers.
    Come round and find the 'guy' had taken the whole of the S11 box literally from under my sons hands, gone to the till and bought the other box of S11 too as well as a large wad of papers/free poly's...

    So, my current 'perspective on reselling', is that resellers are:
    Uncaring, selfish, rude, thoughtless, only driven by money and really not the type of people I want in our community.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^ Of course. By this example, all resellers must be this way. Great illustration.
    TheLoneTensor
  • pillpodpillpod Member Posts: 273
    Stereotypes are shaped by one's experiences. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that's how life works.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    And an experience like that would make a big impression.
    FollowsCloselyLegoMom1
  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916
    Heck, even as someone that resells, that would have pissed me off. I have never and will never take a Lego set from a kid that is clearly looking at it or has it in his hands. That's just dickish, to use the forum vernacular.
    LegoMom1Yellowcastle
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,270
    That was definitely not a LEGO enthusiast who also resells. That was a cold individual. It takes a certain type of person to take something out from a child that is going through them. Almost literally "taking candy from a baby".
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    ^ I think thats the issue, there are a wide range of resellers from the enthusiast who sells of minifigs to get cheap parts, enthusiasts who sell sets to buy other sets right up to those that have zero interest in Lego beyond it being a way to make money and many in between. Their motivations are different and hence their behavior will be different. We had a discussion some time ago about hot UK deals and I think without being snobby there is part of that site that is the way princedraven describes and im sure there are people like that here although I suspect they rarely if ever post.
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 816
    ^ The person in question is just that type of person. A bad person. Probably would have pushed a child out of the way to pick up the $100 bill on the floor that LFT was talking about some posts ago. Just a dick.
    And whilst I am posting I have to say I was a bit harsh on myself some posts ago where I said I didn't provide a service but @cheshirecat tried to assure me that I did. I realised tonight why I do, in one aspect of reselling, provide this service. I have 2 retail outlets in villages that allow me to put Lego in for resale. There is nothing in there for more than £25. But the sets I put in there are sets I am not interested in for mainstream reselling. But what I do such as the week before last is I spent a couple of hundred pounds on the half price sets at Asda and I will put it in the outlets at 20% off rrp. I do not keep track of the inventory but the store owners do. They take there 10%, and I just pick up whatever money they give me in December when we can all do with a bit extra. These are ultimately communities where there is no Lego available other than what I put in and I put it in there at a discount. So thanks @cheshirecat for convincing me I do provide a service!!
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    edited August 2013
    A person like that has no place in our society whether they are a reseller or not. Simple as that. To paint all resellers with a broad brush is a bit much. I have had many experiences with different types of people. If I went with @princedraven's judgment, I would never venture out of my house because all people are horrible. Here's a current example. My daughters first experience with an animal was a neighbors Pomeranian. She was 2 at the time and went over to pet the dog. The dog promptly bit her on the arm and drew blood. My daughter is almost 4 now and she is terrified of ANY dog she sees and always cries and leaps into my arms as if she was climbing a tree to get away from a pack of wolves.

    I keep trying to assure her that not every dog will bite her. It makes no difference what I or her mother says to her she still trembles in fear. No matter what we say to people who have their opinion about resellers, it won't sway them one way or another.
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 816
    ^ And that's just another example of how people differ. I work on the lines that every dog has the potential to bite my daughter, and will instantly pick her up should one approach whilst we are in the park. I won't take the risk.
    Probably too over protective, who knows? My attitude to dogs differs from yours. Neither of us are right or wrong. That's people for you.
  • morezonemorezone Member Posts: 207
    The person in question is just an idiot. You get them in all forms and from all classes.
    I've been using the parent and child bays for the past 2 years and the number of people who have done my head in is vast. I've seen guys in business suits pull up and use the bays as well as a guy in a Porsche, people in expensive cars, people in normal cars, people in old cars, guys in vans, both women and men, both old and young and of various races.
    You can't define where an idiot comes from but I can assure you that they come in all shapes and forms and from all professions.
    Pitfall69Legobutterfly
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I didn't want to write a book, but I actually feel the same way toward dogs. If a dog approaches, I will pick up my daughter, but at a persons house I am a bit more relaxed and not as protective because I know the people and the dog.
  • caperberrycaperberry LondonMember Posts: 2,226
    graphite said:

    That was definitely not a LEGO enthusiast who also resells. That was a cold individual. It takes a certain type of person to take something out from a child that is going through them. Almost literally "taking candy from a baby".

    A big question that troubled me on this thread was whether those 'cold individuals' frequent this forum. Logic tells me they would but as I don't frequent reseller threads I don't know how much is to be gained. Perhaps they are just lurkers but perhaps not. The harder question is where do I personally draw the line between AFOL enthusiasts and cold individuals - this became very grey for me when resellers began saying that emotion has no place in reselling. I'm glad this tricky crazy thread has actually helped me resolve some questions and acknowledge others can't be answered.

    Not trying to rehash debate. Just reiterating its all very very grey and blurry territory.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    ^That is what this thread is all about @caperberry.

    1 in 25 people are sociopaths. They have no emotion whatsoever.
    caperberry
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