The Community Perspective on Reselling

y2josh

LegoFanTexas said:

Try cosmetics and perfume sometime if you want to see some crazy markups. The only business in the world that has better margins are drug dealers.

I can't speak to cosmetics and perfume, but if the margin there is anywhere near the margin on a fountain pop... that's astounding.

LegoFanTexas

About the same...

A $50 bottle of perfume costs about $2 to make, on a bad day... :)

Fountain soda is similar, but it sounds like you know that.

Yellowcastle

The last 100+ comments were interesting but mostly way off topic.

I personally don't feel PM's should be brought into public view but there really isn't any rule.

Additionally, this needs to stay civil. That's non-negotiable. We've done a great job so far but we've started wavering.

TheLoneTensor

Crowkillers said:

The Lego stores are supposedly getting another batch of 41999 sets around the 28th of this month....

Proof?

Crowkillers

tensor said:

Crowkillers said:

The Lego stores are supposedly getting another batch of 41999 sets around the 28th of this month....

Proof?

Talked to a friend from New York earlier and this was what he was told today.. They said there would be no more sold at Lego Shop-at-home and the store should receive some on the 28th or 29th...

Oh yeah, and there is a 1 PER CUSTOMER limit being enforced...

Pitfall69

@BrickDancer I was going to bring this up when people were talking about minty boxes, but it would have gotten lost.

Crowkillers

LOL.. How did this happen..?

http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?sID=292735&itemID=47040855

Pitfall69

^Is this the guy that was buying up all the quick flippers sets on EBay?

Crowkillers

Pitfall69 said:

^Is this the guy that was buying up all the quick flippers sets on EBay?

I don't know, I thought that was some guy from the U.K. ?

Pitfall69

Yeah, I think he was the one.

legomatt

bump.

LOL
(sorry, I couldn't resist).
:oD

jasor

^ Haha! !sick and cruel

legogregors

^^^^^^... buyer beware. Very new bricklink seller correct?

Pitfall69

Yes, and has never sold anything.

Pitfall69

legomatt said:

bump.

LOL
(sorry, I couldn't resist).
:oD

C'Mon man. Didn't you see the "Do Not Feed the Bears" sign before you walked in?

...or was it bulls?

Crowkillers

legogregors said:

^^^^^^... buyer beware. Very new bricklink seller correct?

Yes... His 4 feedbacks look to be as a buyer from last year... He could be legitimate, hard to say... But most of the sets that he is selling are top end sets...

I can't believe that he has 50 #41999 sets..

pvancil27

LegoFanTexas said:

pvancil27 said:

Shockingly I only have one abuse tag, from a post in the Chase McCain thread.

For all of our disagreements, I never felt abused by you. Perhaps you felt it from me from the red/blue doodads and dead horse thread and perhaps I deserved one for that, but you've been a good sport about it. :)

Nope, never did. Only things that really make me irked were the commie stuff and being referred to as a troll with the other stuff flying around. In hindsight the dead horse and dooddad stuff was pretty humorous, and honestly, if you can;t laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at. I re-reada litle of it earlier too and have to apologize. During that first go around I had forgot that actually started inside the reseller thread, something I now get isnt right. So for that I am sorry.

Hardrada

LegoFanTexas said:

Hardrada said:

Thanks to this thread I got my first abuse flag. From no less than LFT. And for an absolutely non-abusive comment. Oh well, having a different opinion is abusive apparently. (I never understood the frequent abuse of the abuse flag btw. I see it so often under non-abusive comments. Not from LFT - I must add - before this remark gets interpreted as abuse, too.)

I use that very sparingly, maybe 2 or 3 times a year.

I felt that you were arguing for the sake of arguing, you were being difficult and directing the attack at me personally for no reason other than to create problems.

And you were completely wrong. It just stood out to me that in your hypothetical example you compared market value on one side to RRP on the other. Apples and oranges. What the *beep* was personal in it at all? It is completely beyond me. I'm not an anti-reseller guy (just mentioning in case you think I'm on a crusade against resellers), in fact I'm a reseller myself.

I thought having an argument on this board was okay. If you don't want to answer some counter-arguments, because you feel it's tiresome or whatever just walk past by. But to take it as an insult/abuse? The only one who created a problem here is you by taking something totally non-personal as a personal attack. Not everyone's out to get you.

cheshirecat

Going back to @LFTs comment that something might happen regarding reselling now, i wonder if looking at the BttF set is a good idea.

Ok, they messed up a little with the launch - releasing it early in store in Europe and at the SDCC which created a little excess demand at the start but since then, at least in the UK its been widely available.

Its OOS at S@H, but plenty available in store (although they sell quickly apparently), its also been available at John Lewis online but now OOS but still widely available in store, its available and in stock at ToysRUs and Tesco and others? Its for sale on amazon (3rd party) for a few £ over RRP. They sell on ebay for the same, I've seen one sell below RRP.

Not sure what its like in other countries, but it seems like TLG have taken two lessons from Minecraft - 1 increase supply dramatically (although they may end up with excess stock at the end?) and 2 supply these sets through as many channels as possible from the start. Its too early to say, but it seems these two things alone could make these golden gooses a lot rarer for resellers.

SirKevbags

^ I think in the UK we are seeing a shift in the sale of exclusives across the board.They are popping up all over the place now. Granted the majority are with a delay which is reasonable but a big step forward.

LostInTranslation

^ I don't get how they can call BTTF exclusive though when as Chesh says it's available everywhere. This is another discussion though really.

cheshirecat

^ is it called an exclusive though? Looking through the exclusive category it now seems to be limited to only the tower of orthanic, UCS X wing, Ewok Village, Sydney Opera House and Winter Village. The remainder is keyrings, magnets, photo frames etc.

You're right it is a little off topic though.

^^ Indeed, with stuff showing up in Smyths and Argos. Looking forward to more appearing at Amazon, John Lewis, TRU.

LostInTranslation

^ We had word through Brickish that it was considered exclusive.

cheshirecat

^ I get ya.

Pitfall69

Crowkillers said:

LOL.. How did this happen..?

http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?sID=292735&itemID=47040855

Crowkillers said:

legogregors said:

^^^^^^... buyer beware. Very new bricklink seller correct?

Yes... His 4 feedbacks look to be as a buyer from last year... He could be legitimate, hard to say... But most of the sets that he is selling are top end sets...

I can't believe that he has 50 #41999 sets..

His account has now been suspended.

caperberry

Despite the yuckiness in this thread I voted to keep it open as there are important aspects being discussed about our community and about Brickset.

For me the most important thing is the word "fan". Its meaning can be interpreted any number of ways but to me the important aspect is that it implies emotion. Several people have stated there is no emotion involved in reselling to them; it's a job. That's fine, but to me it means that aspect to their involvement with LEGO has no place in a fan community.

Those people who resell LEGO to fund their MOCing or collecting or are fine in my book. Or even if they just do it to gain some emotional pleasure for helping out other fans.

I ask out of genuine interest, what do those here who identify as being a "fan" and a "reseller" but with no emotion feel about those who here have zero interest in LEGO and read Brickset purely because they've discovered they can flip a quick buck with this plastic toy?

prof1515

caperberry said:

I ask out of genuine interest, what do those here who identify as being a "fan" and a "reseller" but with no emotion feel about those who here have zero interest in LEGO and read Brickset purely because they've discovered they can flip a quick buck with this plastic toy?

I'm not sure how many, if any, such individuals actually exist. I couldn't care less as it doesn't impact me or my affection for little plastic toys. :-)

caperberry said:

For me the most important thing is the word "fan". Its meaning can be interpreted any number of ways but to me the important aspect is that it implies emotion. Several people have stated there is no emotion involved in reselling to them; it's a job. That's fine, but to me it means that aspect to their involvement with LEGO has no place in a fan community.

However, who are you (or me or anyone for that matter) to define "fan" in order to use that definition to restrict access to the site? For your own purposes in understanding people's motivations, it's understandable. But as they're not harming anyone or the community (it's the community's reaction to them that is harmful), what difference does it make?

vitreolum

This is my main problem with what I've read here. Why does one exclude the other? Why can't a collector/builder/mocer be a reseller and still be a fan? If they were to resell anything else, that fine, no problem there, but lego reselling? No way we can accept that!

Concerning those who have zero interest in Lego, I couldn't care less about them. First of all everyone is free to do as they please, and if one chooses to sell Lego for a profit who am I to complain just because it's something I like? Heck, maybe I can even get a good deal from a misinformed individual like that,

Nor do I see one doing that going very far with it... IMO you have to be a fan to be a good reseller at the same time. Sure, you can hurriedly read a forum and stockpile on DS and FB, and where does that lead? They just have something everyone stockpiled, will realize it takes ages to make a profit and move on. Sure, they may have some successes here and there, but in the and they will get stuck on something, make bad decisions and just move on to the next big thing.

Of course emotion is involved in a hobby but when it comes to reselling it has no room there, it's a business, not a hobby. And do you imagine for a second resellers are the ones that increased the prices of Cafe Coner for example? Really, it's their fault? I bet the prices would still be the same, maybe even higher since availability would be even lower. People would still bid insane amount for them.

If you think about it, everyone stocking on DS and FB is actually doing the fans a favor, guaranteeing that the fans will be able to get those at retail or near for years maybe after EOL. And guess who are going to be the ones to sell first? Yep, the ones that have no interest in Lego and are there only for the profit. Had this not happened, prices would have gone skyrocket, resellers involved or not.

Yellowcastle

^ Since DS and FB are never going to retire, I think the reseller hero tag is probably misapplied.

Coolsplash

We are no one to judge or label if a said person is a fan or uses the word 'fan' to resell or bend the rules. But a little question, what if a person who has no idea about the exclusive nature of a set say FB is able to acquire 2-4 of these and decides to ask a Lego fan the valuation, what kind of a answer should be expected?

My answer being in a negative zone lately would be 'OMG dude you are going to loose money, let me get them off your hands right now' but to be honest, an honest answer should be right thing to do. Its these small effortless little favours we do and should do that makes a true community.

vitreolum

I wasn't bestowing a title of hero on any reseller, just gave it an example as a positive outcome for a fan. And I chose DS and FB as example because that's what would most likely attract the attention of a non fan looking for sets with investment potential.

Yellowcastle

Anger at resellers who appear to be dispassionate about the brick is, IMO, silly, I'm with prof (Lord help me) ;o) in that A) I imagine that the applicable % is tiny, 2) Its impossible to know what lurks in the hearts of others (the shadow knows) and C) It doesn't matter.

So long as a member shows interest in LEGO and communicates about that interest in the appropriate areas with consideration for others, my knickers stay untwisted.

jasor

^ This. It works both ways. I have taken advantage of resellers. I've gotten sets from third parties that did not know what they had, and furthered my fanboy collection. I "outfanned" them. BOOM. I dont have a problem with people dabbling in Lego reselling. If you're sharp, and watch all hawklike...you can get just as good a deal as a big box store with that Clarence guy.

Btw, my family is always looking for Clarence, and apparently, something is always on him. "That fryin' pan's on Clarence! ......Ohhhh, Clarence ;) "

Maybe that's a Southern joke.

prof1515

jasor said:

Btw, my family is always looking for Clarence, and apparently, something is always on him. "That fryin' pan's on Clarence! ......Ohhhh, Clarence ;) "

But what's his vector, Victor?

LegoFanTexas

Roger... Roger...

caperberry

vitreolum said:

This is my main problem with what I've read here. Why does one exclude the other? Why can't a collector/builder/mocer be a reseller and still be a fan? If they were to resell anything else, that fine, no problem there, but lego reselling? No way we can accept that!

I fully agree with you. That's why I was careful to distinguish the act of 'reselling without emotion' from the category of 'reseller' which I agree creates issues.

vitreolum said:

Of course emotion is involved in a hobby but when it comes to reselling it has no room there, it's a business, not a hobby.

Again we are in agreement. I'd just add the conclusion that I personally draw from that sentence: that protracted emotionless discussion of business has no place on a hobby site. From which I draw the conclusion that I was wrong to think that Brickset is a hobby site. Situation resolved, as I have no control over Brickset other than to state my feelings and blindly hope they influence something. I don't want 'resellers' gone from Brickset. I want emotionless discussions for personal gain gone. Yes, I know it'll never happen.

Crowkillers

Pitfall69 said:

Crowkillers said:

LOL.. How did this happen..?


http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?sID=292735&itemID=47040855

Crowkillers said:

legogregors said:

^^^^^^... buyer beware. Very new bricklink seller correct?

Yes... His 4 feedbacks look to be as a buyer from last year... He could be legitimate, hard to say... But most of the sets that he is selling are top end sets...

I can't believe that he has 50 #41999 sets..

His account has now been suspended.

They must want to check the guy out and make sure that he is legit....

caperberry

vitreolum said:

Concerning those who have zero interest in Lego, I couldn't care less about them. First of all everyone is free to do as they please, and if one chooses to sell Lego for a profit who am I to complain just because it's something I like? ... IMO you have to be a fan to be a good reseller at the same time.

This response is consistent with your views, which is good and to be expected. Allow me up the emotional stakes, not with some debatable metaphor but with an actual event (to debate!). Recently a man went to trial for stealing LEGO sets. It was revealed by his lawyer that his motivation was to pay his drug dealer, who accepts payment in LEGO sets. Here is a quote from the lawyer which I asked a friend to translate to be sure it wasn't Google Translate making it sound so horrid:

"People are always looking for Lego. It is easy to resell. Once kids have handled their first brick, the parents are screwed."

The many depressing implications of that statement aside, it implies to me that the lawyer is aware that the drug dealer then resells the LEGO. I know that is an assumption, but there seems no other logical reason for him to state that LEGO is easy to resell.

Whether or not the drug dealer is a 'fan', by my or their or anyone's definition, or a 'builder' or 'collector' as well, does this specific behaviour - bartering LEGO for drugs and reselling it for personal gain which would likely include the further purchase of drugs, affect your emotional (especially your moral) perspective that it is his/her right to do as he/she pleases in any way?

Coolsplash said:

We are no one to judge or label if a said person is a fan or uses the word 'fan' to resell or bend the rules.

Yellowcastle said:

Anger at resellers who appear to be dispassionate about the brick is, IMO, silly, I'm with prof (Lord help me) ;o) in that A) I imagine that the applicable % is tiny, 2) Its impossible to know what lurks in the hearts of others (the shadow knows) and C) It doesn't matter.

I'm also interested to know if it affects your perspectives, Coolsplash and Yellowcastle- particularly with this added hypothetical; what if the drug dealer is one of our Brickset colleagues? I don't know for sure of course but I presume the Brickset Forum is one of the best or at least sensible places to be if you resell sets, so there is a fair enough probability of this for me to propose the hypothetical.

I'm making that point because no doubt, people will respond that I am bringing an unrelated and isolated incident into the discussion, but I don't think that's possible to wholly discount.

BTW here is the original article. If any Dutch speakers care to better the translation, that would be great.
http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/21780673/__Drugsdealer_betaald_met_Lego__.html

vitreolum

caperberry said:

Again we are in agreement. I'd just add the conclusion that I personally draw from that sentence: that protracted emotionless discussion of business has no place on a hobby site. From which I draw the conclusion that I was wrong to think that Brickset is a hobby site. Situation resolved, as I have no control over Brickset other than to state my feelings and blindly hope they influence something. I don't want 'resellers' gone from Brickset. I want emotionless discussions for personal gain gone. Yes, I know it'll never happen.

Of course, as many said before, the first comment when a new set is released and posted here shouldn't be "My, that's gonna be a winner in the aftermarket."

But talking about investments and reselling (in their respective threads, obviously) shouldn't be shunned either as it's still a part of the AFOL world. It just has to be dealt with differently.

caperberry

vitreolum said:

caperberry said:

Again we are in agreement. I'd just add the conclusion that I personally draw from that sentence: that protracted emotionless discussion of business has no place on a hobby site. From which I draw the conclusion that I was wrong to think that Brickset is a hobby site. Situation resolved, as I have no control over Brickset other than to state my feelings and blindly hope they influence something. I don't want 'resellers' gone from Brickset. I want emotionless discussions for personal gain gone. Yes, I know it'll never happen.

Of course, as many said before, the first comment when a new set is released and posted here shouldn't be "My, that's gonna be a winner in the aftermarket."

But talking about investments and reselling (in their respective threads, obviously) shouldn't be shunned either as it's still a part of the AFOL world. It just has to be dealt with differently.

Yes, I'm at least glad that one of the positive things to emerge from this thread is that most people seem to agree on keeping things to threads and I hope everyone feels comfortable about pointing that out should things bleed into general threads.

jasor

@caperberry -- Honestly, in ANY sampling of people, regardless of their common subject, there will be a number in that group who are less than ideal from what is considered a "normal" perspective.

Do I like the idea of a drug dealer peddling me a MISB set? No. Do I like the idea of that happening within this community? No. Is it possible? Absolutely!

You never know, and you may never. I would like to say that it is doubtful that someone in that distinction would troll thru forums, but the sky is the limit.

The person in the article makes money off a product they know they can sell to a particular group, and keep selling for climbing prices. It's a perfectly sensible leap to say they could do the same with a niche retail toy, if they are paying attention. I hope they arent building, though...that's where it bites you back*

*such poor taste in jokes. oh well.

vitreolum

But what does that incident have to do with a reseller? What you are talking about is illegal in every way, from stealing to drug dealing. It's something that should make any individual whatsoever emotional, not only a Lego fan.

If it wasn't Lego it would be something else. What created that situation is the Lego sells, and sells well. Not resellers.

Basta

@caperberry the drug dealer very well could be a member of Brickset, but I'd guess if they are not a real fan than they probably don't post. I'd imagine most resellers who are not AFOL's just lurk and not actually participate in any discussions.

caperberry

vitreolum said:

But what does that incident have to do with a reseller?...

The drug dealer is a reseller. (If my reading of the lawyer's comment is correct.) I raise it not to compare you or anyone here to drug dealers or thieves, in case there's any confusion. I raise it because I'm interested to know how it sits with your opinion that "everyone is free to do as they please, and if one chooses to sell Lego for a profit who am I to complain just because it's something I like?"

Basta said:

@caperberry the drug dealer very well could be a member of Brickset, but I'd guess if they are not a real fan than they probably don't post. I'd imagine most resellers who are not AFOL's just lurk and not actually participate in any discussions.

I came from the stated perspective that whether they are a real fan or not is irrelevant to my point. Whether they post or lurk is even less relevant to my argument (but very interesting to consider in other arguments).

vitreolum

But in this case you are twisting my comment and putting it in an extreme situation. Of course I'm not okay with that. Do you thing I should have added "everyone is free to do as they please, as long as they aren't thieves, drug dealers, pimps, etc"?

I am fine with everyone doing this the normal way: buying the sets and selling for a profit, without including anything illegal. Not stealing the sets and giving them away for drugs. That's NOT what reselling means to me.

LegoFanTexas

Regarding the drug dealer...

Clearly the person stealing the LEGO is at fault, we have laws against theft, and for good reason.

As for the drug dealer, does your position change if the drugs were made legal?

Regarding people being able to do what they want, I believe they should be able to, so long as they don't hurt other people. Stealing clearly is wrong because it hurts other people. Smoking pot? How is that more harmful than cigarettes?

Most drugs should, at the least, be decriminalized. Stop playing morality police and telling people how to live.

doriansdad

vitreolum said:

This is my main problem with what I've read here. Why does one exclude the other? Why can't a collector/builder/mocer be a reseller and still be a fan? If they were to resell anything else, that fine, no problem there, but lego reselling? No way we can accept that!

Go to a car forum and see the heck folks get for dropping a japanese engine into a mustang....go to an arcade forum and see the heck people get for transforming an original donkey kong into a mame machine....a hobby is as a good as religion to some folks and there is no tolerance for the infidels....this hobby is no different....but at the end of the day seeing grown men argue over toys or about getting abuse flags for arguing over toys is quite entertaining.

caperberry

vitreolum said:

But in this case you are twisting my comment and putting it in an extreme situation. Of course I'm not okay with that. Do you thing I should have added "everyone is free to do as they please, as long as they aren't thieves, drug dealers, pimps, etc"?

I am fine with everyone doing this the normal way: buying the sets and selling for a profit, without including anything illegal. Not stealing the sets and giving them away for drugs. That's NOT what reselling means to me.

I put your comment in an extreme situation, correct, I did not twist your words. Your comment made me wonder what the limits of the concept "emotion is involved in a hobby but when it comes to reselling it has no room there" actually are. We are having a debate and you have clearly explained that breaking the law is the limit of what you consider acceptable. Excellent point clearly made, thank you.

LFT's response seems to be discussing the morality of drug laws, which is off-topic. So I'll only refer to it to make the point that his view is different to some degree to yours vitreolum, which proves that my questioning of your opinion was not a foregone conclusion; I didn't know what you were going to reply. That's why I asked.

TheLoneTensor

caperberry said:

Yes, I'm at least glad that one of the positive things to emerge from this thread is that most people seem to agree on keeping things to threads and I hope everyone feels comfortable about pointing that out should things bleed into general threads.

This. Purist Collectors should not be forced to view things that focus on reselling, and Resellers should not be denied the wealth of resources available here. Like most divisive things, it will take perpetual (though hopefully not sever) moderation to keep things in check. For example, this thread's title (which I hate every time I see it), should have been moderated, because I honestly think it, alone, incited more feelings than it should have by its very nature. The same would be said of a thread titled "Why do some sellers view collectors as elitist?" It's just not a good thing right off the bat because it's basically promoting an argument. Keep the threads separate, moderate bleeding and all will be better.

LegoFanTexas

I wasn't trying to go off topic, I was responding to your specific example of a drug dealer selling LEGO.

My question was, do your feelings about buying LEGO from a drug dealer change if said drugs were legal?

It is also on topic because of what you replied to, the issue of letting people do what they want (within the bounds of law of course)