The Community Perspective on Reselling

samiam391

I think we're almost quickly seeing this conversation veer from re-sellers vs. "collectors" to what a collector is and isn't. They do however run quite hand in hand with each other.

There is no definition of collecting, as some have mentioned. The only fair definition of collecting that can be pieced together, is that collecting's definition is in the eye of the beholder.

That either means:
Having every single set, ever created, MISB.
Having every single set, ever created, opened and on display.
Having every single set from a theme, MISB.
Having every single set from a theme, opened and on display.
Having 5 sets out of 34 in a theme, opened and on display.
The same applies to minifigures.

In a sense, everyone is collecting. We're all searching for a goal, whether it is realistic or un-attainable. Some might be searching to have every single set in existence. Another might be looking to purchase every single Star Wars battlepack ever created. Both have a goal in mind. Some may see the first example as truly collecting, while the other is just your average joe buying a LEGO set. That's your opinion. But if purchasing every SW battle pack is what that person thinks is collecting, then more power to them.

That's one of the beauties of collecting, we can make it whatever we want to be. There are naturally limitations, but it's mostly a free world that we get to explore and make our own.

I see that as one of the reasons we clash so often. The beauty is also the ugly. We each have our own definition of collecting, and thus we bicker so often.
Whether that's collector vs. collector, re-seller vs re-seller, or collector vs. re-seller.

I'm perfectly fine with re-selling. I do it myself from time to time, on both sets and minifigures. Re-selling actually brings me some joy in the nature of collecting. I find myself, even selling at markup, helping another collector out to complete what their definition of collecting is. What I usually make, then in turns fund my hobby and my definition of collecting.

Some re-sellers may not look at it this way, and in turn focus more on the actual dollar being made. The dollar that helps pay for their child's tuition, the broken car out back, the new dishwasher, or perhaps a LEGO set. That's fine too. They can still be a LEGO collector, their definition is just different than mine.

At times though I do become irked with some re-selling habits though, and they go much in coherence with what others have stated. At these times, is when I can't help but get my blood boiling a little bit, so much so that my definition of collecting clashes with theirs.

Already stated, but:
-People blatantly stating their hauls. Whether that's saying they purchased 14 construct a zurgs the other day, or how they got 10 #41999s.
-People blatantly/publicly stating how they circumvented limits/guidelines... how they got around the system
-What I like to call the "re-selling" plague, dis-easing other threads that tend to not have anything to do with re-selling.

I think that's why we've seen the recent clash.

I'm fine with some happiness over a set and its potential re-sale value, but #41999 started to take over everything. I saw evidence of all 3 above not only in re-selling threads, but others too. The first day was fine. The second was alright. By the third, people were still raving about it, and I started getting a little peeved... by the seventh day I had a headache.

I think there are a few things we can pull from all of this:

1) Re-selling topics do need to stay confined to their separate threads. Discussion is fine, I even like to take part in them from time to time, but they shouldn't be allowed to become a "plague" and turn every discussion into "I have 8", "this has such great potential value", etc..

2) We all have our own definition of collecting, and we do need to try and respect each others. Discussion, even debate, is perfectly fine regarding them. However in all of it, there does need to be some line of respect that we each have our own definition of it.

3) I can't take anything @LegoFanTexas says seriously because of his new avatar.

Pitfall69

^That seems to be my problem.

doriansdad

So Samiam is censorship the answer (banning posts reguarding hauls / limit skirting etc) or is a better idea to add a mute option so each member can decide what they do and do want to read?

Pitfall69

A synopsis of what people have gathered from this thread was lost with all the collector vs. consumer talk. Could someone repost it again?

I have always said that explicitly stating how big of a haul you just got seems to be bragging a bit and then taking a picture of your haul compounds the problem.

pvancil27

doriansdad said:

So Samiam is censorship the answer (banning posts reguarding hauls / limit skirting etc) or is a better idea to add a mute option so each member can decide what they do and do want to read?

Keep the bragging in the braggin thread and the reselling thread IMO.

pillpod

It's not quite censorship. You can still mention things of that nature but in the appropriate thread. It's not too difficult.

A mute option would ruin the flow of any conversation one would try to follow. Not a good idea.

Crowkillers

So anyways getting back to my thoughts on bricklink...

If you are a hardcore minifig collector and don't want to shell out $250 for a new set just to get that special figure that only comes in that expensive set, so instead you buy it from Fuddy-Duddy's Lego Emporium on bricklink for $75, do you feel bad about yourself for buying from someone who has taken advantage of the "System"...? Or do you feel good about yourself because you got what you wanted without having to pay the full amount for the entire set for which it was included...?

And after you receive your figure in a timely fashion, do you leave Fuddy Duddy a Positive for being a great seller or a Negative for being a crooked reseller who took a possible birthday gift away from some child who may have enjoyed it more than you..?

Pitfall69

This is an open forum, so censorship is not the answer. Also, ones opinion is obviously different than another's, so what constitutes as bragging?

As a mature adults, I don't think we need to go to great lengths to piss other people off. If you have to think about your comments toward another, then you probably shouldn't post it. To be fair, I'm guilty of this from time to time.

Brickarmor

LegoFanTexas said:

Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

caperberry said:

If an AFOL enjoys reselling their sets or parts more than building or collecting them, then I'm cool with that reality. It is not the purpose that the System in Play was invented for, but then neither are MOCs depicting sex and I find those pretty dang funny. But reselling has grown to the point where there is awareness amongst people with no interest in LEGO whatsoever that there is a (literal) wealth of easily-accessible investment information available from those AFOLs in the know, so the bandwagon is increasingly easy and attractive to jump on. I am not cool with that; I'm interested to know if AFOLs that resell a lot of sets are, and anyone's thoughts on whether it is realistic to hope that the access these people have could be lessened in some way.

When it comes to flipping burgers or flipping sets, I know there's the common sense response that says you don't have to like what you do to make money but the money must be made. If reselling sets has been the province of dedicated AFOLs and is now being invaded by indifferent business interests (41999 = widget XYZ) then that is certainly a problem first for Lego fans who want to fund their hobby, and eventually for the big time resellers themselves.

How many people do we really think are willing to pay well over retail? We act like everybody (except us) does it all the time! And yes, the sets sell, more or less, but if there's even 100 or 1000 "speculators" hoarding Helms Deep, Jabba's Palace, and the mods because the party line is "buy big sets," that's an enormous quantity of sets saturating the aftermarket. At that point it is a nonissue whether they are AFOLs or just mom-n-pop's ebay biz. So in short I would surmise that relying upon reselling for anything other than kicks and grins is a dangerous wave to ride. But sure, that wave could be 100 FBs high and stretched out for 10 years...

charlatan13

What would happen if those people disappointed in how the #41999 sales were handled were to express their frustrations in an email (or even a letter) to TLG? Would things change for the next release? I think TLG as the gatekeeper offers the best chance of increasing the likelihood that enthusiasts have a chance to get the next limited edition product when it goes on sale.

I imagine that the recent Mr. Gold decision along with the #41999 mania will result in the increase of such practices unless they hear otherwise. I would think something along the lines of disappointment would work much better than 'I refuse to buy any of your products ever again'.

pvancil27

Pitfall69 said:

This is an open forum, so censorship is not the answer. Also, ones opinion is obviously different than another's, so what constitutes as bragging?

As a mature adults, I don't think we need to go to great lengths to piss other people off. If you have to think about your comments toward another, then you probably shouldn't post it. To be fair, I'm guilty of this from time to time.

I just bought 50 of set XXXXX

I own 50 of set XXXXX

Picture of 50 XXXXXs in your closet

Say I post a 50% off R2-D2, if you buy ten, you don't have go "I just bought 10" especially if it sells out within a short time. Just post thanks, got my order in.

Now if you post that you bought 10 in the brag thread, then no one should say jack, because, its a bloody bragging thread.

margot

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

samiam391

doriansdad said:

So Samiam is censorship the answer (banning posts reguarding hauls / limit skirting etc) or is a better idea to add a mute option so each member can decide what they do and do want to read?

Censorship isn't the answer. Neither is muting.

This is an above 16 age thread.

Are we all so childish as to not respect each other and post in specific areas that pertain to our comments? I think we're all knowledgeable enough to know beforehand what goes in what threads, and what doesn't.

We don't need more rules, just try and be more aware. It's a big issue, that's a nagging problem, that's an easy fix. :o)

cheshirecat

Brickarmor said:

LegoFanTexas said:

Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

caperberry said:

If an AFOL enjoys reselling their sets or parts more than building or collecting them, then I'm cool with that reality. It is not the purpose that the System in Play was invented for, but then neither are MOCs depicting sex and I find those pretty dang funny. But reselling has grown to the point where there is awareness amongst people with no interest in LEGO whatsoever that there is a (literal) wealth of easily-accessible investment information available from those AFOLs in the know, so the bandwagon is increasingly easy and attractive to jump on. I am not cool with that; I'm interested to know if AFOLs that resell a lot of sets are, and anyone's thoughts on whether it is realistic to hope that the access these people have could be lessened in some way.

When it comes to flipping burgers or flipping sets, I know there's the common sense response that says you don't have to like what you do to make money but the money must be made. If reselling sets has been the province of dedicated AFOLs and is now being invaded by indifferent business interests (41999 = widget XYZ) then that is certainly a problem first for Lego fans who want to fund their hobby, and eventually for the big time resellers themselves.

How many people do we really think are willing to pay well over retail? We act like everybody (except us) does it all the time! And yes, the sets sell, more or less, but if there's even 100 or 1000 "speculators" hoarding Helms Deep, Jabba's Palace, and the mods because the party line is "buy big sets," that's an enormous quantity of sets saturating the aftermarket. At that point it is a nonissue whether they are AFOLs or just mom-n-pop's ebay biz. So in short I would surmise that relying upon reselling for anything other than kicks and grins is a dangerous wave to ride. But sure, that wave could be 100 FBs high and stretched out for 10 years...

Theres often talk of a lego bubble, but without resellers buying above rrp from other resellers common sense suggests no one will be hit too hard and so the bubble wont so much burst and slowly deflate. however, what you refer to is imo the bigger problem. even if the bubble doesnt bang its likely at some point the number supplying eol sets will outstrip the number demanding them. FB seems a likely candidate, but 41999 could just as easily be it if the number demanding it is small enough. when that happens most resellers will walk away with less profit than hoped for but not a loss. Theyll move on to the next big thing. thectrouble is what happens to TLG? they may overproduce a few sets expectung the reseller business which then doesnt materialise. fine, theyre big enough to take that hit. the bigger issue will be if theyve expanded production to cater for this demand which then deminishes. of course, this requires the amount of lego stored away by resellers to be significant. are we there yet? no idea but if i was TLG i would definately want to have a handle on the size of that and hence their possible exposure. after all they could face a double whammy of reduced interest from core consumers due to fashion and the complete and instant removal of the reseller market.

cheshirecat

im not suggesting fb could bring the end of reselling but rather if it became a trend.

samiam391

margot said:

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Pitfall69

samiam391 said:

margot said:

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Yes, but it is mostly regulated to this forum. I can't imagine standing in front of a public bathroom mirror saying

"Did you hear that FB is finally going to retire?"...
the other guy : "No way!"
"Waaay"

pillpod

@Crowkillers: I think I and maybe others mentioned it earlier. Reselling for parts is a much different service compared to flipping a limited edition technic set 5 days after release.

A BL store that parts out a set allows multiple people to benefit from one set. I recently bought a Bane minifigure; I didn't want the whole $40 set, just the minifigure. In this case, the reseller didn't snag up a bunch of limited sets just to flip them for profit. That set is readily available. The reseller is just assuming the risk of parting it out for me and I pay a premium for the minifigure.

In the case of #41999, limited edition sets were bought just to be sold the next day. Someone mentioned that those resellers were meeting a demand that TLG couldn't. That just doesn't make sense (in this specific case) because if resellers didn't gobble them up, people that want to collect or play with them would eventually buy them all. That said, I don't have any issue with someone buying a bunch of some set to resell later down the road, so long as the set isn't an extremely limited production. And yes, what 'limited' is can be subjective, but it isn't the main issue here.

wagnerml2

I keep coming back to this thread like rubber-necking at a car wreck. I have been a "shelf cleaner" in the past. A few times I posted my haul. It wasn't to brag, it was because I was actually excited at the huge value I was able to get and what that represented for money I could conceivably make to plow back into this cursed hobby. When people started stating they were offended by the practice and that the pictures appeared to be gloating, I quit posting pictures and quit talking about my hauls when/if I am able to come by them. I thought people were being a little to sensitive, but to each his own. I don't ever want to offend anyone.

That said, Lego knew just what they were doing with 41999. The secondary market explosion WAS the intended result. Don't think for a moment it wasn't. People shouldn't be surprised that people will take advantage and make money when the opportunity arises. It goes with the territory. The same thing happens with hot wheels, sports cards, comics, action figures....you name it. As they say, don't hate the player, hate the game.

There is no reason why Lego couldn't have produced 50,000 or 100,000 copies of 41999, but then ask yourself, would we be having this conversation? Nope. Collectors want it because it is in short supply. Re-sellers buy them to sell them to the collectors. Limits are easy to circumvent and so people get around them. Its no different from the guy who gets to Target at 8 am to get all the treasure hunt hot wheels and then sells them on Ebay. The manufacturer intended to create this situation. That is where the ire should be directed.

EKSam

Pitfall69 said:

samiam391 said:

margot said:

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Yes, but it is mostly regulated to this forum. I can't imagine standing in front of a public bathroom mirror saying

"Did you hear that FB is finally going to retire?"...
the other guy : "No way!"
"Waaay"

" Heard from a Lego store employee, FB has finally retired"
The other guy: " DID NOT"
"DID TOO"
"DID NOT"........:-))

Edit: ( sorry for yelling)

klatu003

^wagnerml2

wagnerml2 said:

I keep coming back to this thread like rubber-necking at a car wreck.

It is also much like "Beware! The Blob." I'm waiting to see what happens to the kitten.

margot

Pitfall69 said:

samiam391 said:

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Yes, but it is mostly regulated to this forum. I can't imagine standing in front of a public bathroom mirror saying

"Did you hear that FB is finally going to retire?"...
the other guy : "No way!"
"Waaay"

I work in a job that is 96% men. Trust me that I know guys gossip and chat just as much, if not more than women. Mind blown watching guys have full on conversations about the book "What to Expect When You are Expecting".... And don't get me started about all of the conversations I've had to listen to about exes. There have been several times I've wanted to do the Archie Bunker suicide pantomime.

LegoMom1

Pitfall69 said:

samiam391 said:

margot said:

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Yes, but it is mostly regulated to this forum. I can't imagine standing in front of a public bathroom mirror saying

"Did you hear that FB is finally going to retire?"...
the other guy : "No way!"
"Waaay"

@Pitfall69- How is it that you manage to eventually work a bit of bathroom humor into just about every thread? :)

Crowkillers

The Bricklink sellers are being so noble because they are doing a service for everyone.. Gimme a break...

Anyone of you that uses Bricklink for buying or selling has no room to talk about what resellers do because you are no better...

You people are being hypocrites about resellers... I simply cannot fathom how it is ok in your eyes for these huge bricklink stores to buy out 100's and 100's of clearanced sets and sell the parts to you that meet your needs, but if someone else buys up up those same sets and resells them, they are the bad guy...

In both situations each reseller is making a profit and many times it is the huge bricklink stores who make it immediately while the other guy has to sit on his sets...

Here is a question, if you go to a bricklink store that has a million parts and they have all of the parts that you need at good prices, but you notice that they have Four #41999 sets for sale also, do you still buy from them, or do you go to another store who's prices are not as good and doesn't have as many parts but are not selling any exclusives..?

My guess is that you look the other way while you hit the checkout button for the first store...

pvancil27

Crowkillers said:

The Bricklink sellers are being so noble because they are doing a service for everyone.. Gimme a break...

I myself have just as big a problem with them, the difference is they are not here to debate.

And calling anyone who uses BL (and lets say ebay too) a hypocrite is wrong. Not everyone who sells on BL is a reseller, some people just sell their old stuff or stuff they do not want anymore. Life isnt black and white.

Pitfall69

LegoMom1 said:

Pitfall69 said:

samiam391 said:

margot said:

And they say women talk too much... do these threads ever die? LOL

@margot- Don't judge us... men like to gossip about their LEGO :o)

Yes, but it is mostly regulated to this forum. I can't imagine standing in front of a public bathroom mirror saying

"Did you hear that FB is finally going to retire?"...
the other guy : "No way!"
"Waaay"

@Pitfall69- How is it that you manage to eventually work a bit of bathroom humor into just about every thread? :)

It is my curse. At least it took 800+ comments before I threw it in the mix ;)

@Margot. Men do talk a lot. I just had a heated discussion about putting a refrigerator in my bathroom.

pillpod

I didn't say they were being noble. Just that they are providing a service. It's not a noble service. Just a service.

I said I didn't have an issue with people buying out clearance isles. I can agree with and disagree with different parts of reselling. If someone is registered as a Democrat or Republican, do they have to agree with every single issue or ideology? No. It's not black and white.

I'm not sure what your specific hypotheticals add to the conversation, but I might think twice about moving to the next store...it's hard to say.

Is someone that disagrees with the mistreatment of animals and how they're slaughtered still allowed to eat meat? If I disagree with how some people go about reselling lego, I can still buy lego from a reseller.

Crowkillers

Reseller that benefits you = Good

Reseller that

pvancil27 said:

Crowkillers said:

The Bricklink sellers are being so noble because they are doing a service for everyone.. Gimme a break...

I myself have just as big a problem with them, the difference is they are not here to debate.

I have no problem with bricklink sellers because my wife is one of them...

What I have an problem with is people that think buying parts on bricklink from resellers is just fine, but anyone else buying up sets is doing a huge disservice to the world...

LegoManiacc

I gotta say, I think TRU did a great job shipping these for once:



Anyone else have similar success?

/edit whoops, wrong thread. please feel free to move to the TRU 41999 topic.

margot

^uh oh....

Crowkillers

LOL.. You got 9 of them...? XD

Crowkillers

LegoManiacc said:

I gotta say, I think TRU did a great job shipping these for once:



Anyone else have similar success?

/edit whoops, wrong thread. please feel free to move to the TRU 41999 topic.

Looks like they're going for a magic carpet ride...

Crowkillers

LOL.. Is that a minion in the wheel of the first box..?

TheLoneTensor

Well, I think we have a frontrunner for the person with the least respect for the thoughts presented here.

LegoMom1

@Pitfall said- Men do talk a lot. I just had a heated discussion about putting a refrigerator in my bathroom.

So the cooler isn't working out for you anymore? :)

EKSam

I foresee the "dickish" attribute in someone's near future. :-))

(I am kidding)

Crowkillers

I can't stop laughing at that picture...

pillpod

@Crowkillers: You're sort of twisting my (or other peoples) words. I keep saying I have no issue with clearing out a clearance isle. My opinions were mostly aimed at #41999. And I never said BL sellers = noble and other resellers = disservice to the world. But if that's how you want to take it, then I'll probably be done with this particular conversation.

samiam391

LegoManiacc said:

I gotta say, I think TRU did a great job shipping these for once:

Anyone else have similar success?

/edit whoops, wrong thread. please feel free to move to the TRU 41999 topic.

I'd be insulted by that picture if it wasn't for the despicable me minion casually waving up at me on the top box. Just a guess @LegoManiac, but the picture is photoshopped? Or do you really have 9?

Crowkillers

pillpod said:

@Crowkillers: You're sort of twisting my (or other peoples) words. I keep saying I have no issue with clearing out a clearance isle. My opinions were mostly aimed at #41999. And I never said BL sellers = noble and other resellers = disservice to the world. But if that's how you want to take it, then I'll probably be done with this particular conversation.

I am talking about this thread in general, not the #41999 in particular...

pvancil27

Crowkillers said:

pillpod said:

@Crowkillers: You're sort of twisting my (or other peoples) words. I keep saying I have no issue with clearing out a clearance isle. My opinions were mostly aimed at #41999. And I never said BL sellers = noble and other resellers = disservice to the world. But if that's how you want to take it, then I'll probably be done with this particular conversation.

I am talking about this thread in general, not the #41999 in particular...

Most of us made peace with the pre-41999 days.

Pitfall69

^@samiam391 2 c's

klatu003

*wipes tears of laughter* I'm seeing a "dickish" minion stashing those boxes in the refrigerator in pitfall's bathroom after they have been shrunk by the magic carpet to fit.

JamesJT

LegoManiacc said:

I gotta say, I think TRU did a great job shipping these for once:



Anyone else have similar success?

/edit whoops, wrong thread. please feel free to move to the TRU 41999 topic.

Fantastic. I'm off the hook now pitfall, yes?

Pitfall69

^^Ok, to be fair, it is only a small refrigerator. I have a TV in there, so why not a fridge? All I would need is a hot plate and I would never leave :) Just me, my toilet and my stack of minty fresh Crawlers.

Crowkillers

pvancil27 said:

Crowkillers said:

pillpod said:

@Crowkillers: You're sort of twisting my (or other peoples) words. I keep saying I have no issue with clearing out a clearance isle. My opinions were mostly aimed at #41999. And I never said BL sellers = noble and other resellers = disservice to the world. But if that's how you want to take it, then I'll probably be done with this particular conversation.

I am talking about this thread in general, not the #41999 in particular...

Most of us made peace with the pre-41999 days.

I see.. I only caught the anti-reseller comments after the 41999 went on sale and I thought they were a little bit hypocritical...

pvancil27

That was just part two, there is another older debate thread buried further back then this one that was way more pro re-seller then this one. It had stories of Doodads and dead horses and there might have been a unicorn or two. It's also where I found out Darth Texas was my father, and I refused to join the dark side.

Yellowcastle

@Crowkillers - you keep vehemently making the same point over and over and over and over and over and over.

I will acknowledge on behalf of the entire group that you believe resellers of sets are no different than resellers of parts. That being said, no one here (i.e. not a single person) is bemoaning the concept of reselling, just the behaviors that some resellers employ. You're shadow boxing.

Crowkillers

I must have been reading different comments than you have then...

BlueMoonUSA

Thanks for the post-dinner chuckle, @Legomaniacc. It's a shame that your jocular irreverence was flamed by some.