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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013

    Seems a shame that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

    One of the main problems is that the majority of the set is something that has already existed for over a year... The instructions can be downloaded and there are not any "New" parts in the set, so anyone could build it onto their existing crawler for much cheaper than $200..
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561

    Seems a shame that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

    Why? I think it's a shame that so many people are damaging and devaluing their sets by opening and handling the contents. The good thing is of course that with so many people doing just that it ensures that collectors' sets gain value, not just monetary value but also archival value.

  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited August 2013
    prof1515 said:

    Why? I think it's a shame that so many people are damaging and devaluing their sets by opening and handling the contents.

    Somewhere you lost the whole concept that Lego was about building. Maybe if you had some kids of your own you would figure it out ; )
    rancorbait
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited August 2013
    rocao said:

    In talking with the person at greater length, it turned out that his involvement with LEGO is similar to mine. He is a collector, builder, and reseller. He told me about his Amazon storefront. He told me that he was doing the same circuit of Target stores, and had gotten to each of the other stores just before me, so he actually manged a decent haul. All of a sudden, I didn't feel any empathy for him. Nothing had changed; it was still the same set at a $40 discount. But his usage was now known, and since he was effectively just asking that I hand over money, had I known, I probably wouldn't have.

    This is exactly why I don't like resellers. It's like a bunch of Al's from Toy Story 2.
  • klatu003klatu003 Hobbiton, Shire, Middle EarthMember Posts: 725
    edited August 2013
    This discussion is educational.

    I now know why there is never any Lego on the clearance isles at Target when I get there. Resellers are saving the Lego from people like me "damaging and devaluing" the sets. LOL.

    It looks like "@LFT" needs to be added to the acronym list.

    This thread could be renamed "Why Little Timmy doesn't get a Crawler"
    FollowsCloselypharmjod
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    Why? I think it's a shame that so many people are damaging and devaluing their sets by opening and handling the contents.

    Somewhere you lost the whole concept that Lego was about building. Maybe if you had some kids of your own you would figure it out ; )
    The whole concept of Lego is business; they produce a product that consumers buy. It was originally a product intended for children but limited editions and Comic Con exclusives indicate that's not the case. Exclusives and limited editions cater to collectors, not consumers. One doesn't need children to realize that.


    LegoFanTexasnkx1pharmjodvitreolum
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    ^ never trust the grandma. She's a reseller.

    In all seriousness, MOST offerings are 2 years. You have plenty of time to pick them up. I'm glad for resellers, both of parts....and sets.

    I've benefitted from both, shopped saavy, and gotten things I missed during a time that I was out of Lego.

    That being said, a quick flip is understandable, admirable from strength of initiative, and completely disruptive. Correct me if I'm wrong, @prof1515 , but the collapse of the Star Trek action figure line declined because of too many "chase/promotional/limited" varieties ( You just SEEM like you love Star Trek, for some reason).

    The collectors were exasperated. Now, it's two different things physically, but not conceptually. Really, as long as this blatant PR-showroom-buzz-hype kitch is more scarce than prevalent...it'll all be ok.

    Resellers are a big reason why Lego keeps value, just like any other collectible property. It's all symbiotic. You'll have people that abuse the system, especially with cases like 41999. You'll also have a much larger population with sets people missed. The more, the merrier.
    klatu003
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited August 2013
    prof1515 said:

    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    Why? I think it's a shame that so many people are damaging and devaluing their sets by opening and handling the contents.

    Somewhere you lost the whole concept that Lego was about building. Maybe if you had some kids of your own you would figure it out ; )
    The whole concept of Lego is business; they produce a product that consumers buy. It was originally a product intended for children but limited editions and Comic Con exclusives indicate that's not the case. Exclusives and limited editions cater to collectors, not consumers. One doesn't need children to realize that.


    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    jasor said:

    Correct me if I'm wrong, @prof1515 , but the collapse of the Star Trek action figure line declined because of too many "chase/promotional/limited" varieties ( You just SEEM like you love Star Trek, for some reason).

    The collectors were exasperated. Now, it's two different things physically, but not conceptually. Really, as long as this blatant PR-showroom-buzz-hype kitch is more scarce than prevalent...it'll all be ok.

    Me? A Star Trek fan? Could it be my profile pic(s)? Could it be the twelve (and counting since ten more on the way literally or on preorder) uniforms that I own? Could it be the encyclopedic wealth of Trek knowledge stored in my mind? Could it be that I plan to name my four children James Tiberius, Spock, Scotty and He's Dead Jim? (actually I don't want kids but those are damned cool names!)

    I actually don't know much about the Star Trek action figures aside from the Mego line from the 70s. I never got into collecting the Playmates line from the 80s and 90s and only recently have begun collecting the Art Asylum/Diamond Select line that began in 2000. It died off but that might be related the lack of any Star Trek series or movies until 2009 (when the license for figures went elsewhere). I know that the AA/DS line did have some SDCC exclusives and more recently a "Mirror, Mirror" line that was available via various vendors at SDCC. However, those vendors also sold them on their websites as well (ie, Entertainment Earth had the Mirror Universe Chekov which they might still have a few of last I looked).

    It hasn't hurt Hasbro with their Star Wars line though. What seems to be hurting them, according to my friend who is a big Hasbro SW collector, is the inconsistency and lack of even distribution (nothing new in the action figure business but irritating nevertheless from the sound of it).
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    Diamond Select has recently been doing action figure dioramas with figures that are semi-posable (jointed necks, arms but fixed legs for specific poses). I'm not sure what to make of them. Haven't bought any of the three released thus far (yet).
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,929
    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    Why? I think it's a shame that so many people are damaging and devaluing their sets by opening and handling the contents.

    Somewhere you lost the whole concept that Lego was about building. Maybe if you had some kids of your own you would figure it out ; )
    The whole concept of Lego is business; they produce a product that consumers buy. It was originally a product intended for children but limited editions and Comic Con exclusives indicate that's not the case. Exclusives and limited editions cater to collectors, not consumers. One doesn't need children to realize that.


    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.
    I don't really understand it, but I think it is something to do with knowing you have it.

    I know an old guy that has some old cigarette (tobacco) cards that are worth about £5K each on the open market. He has a full set of 20. At least, he tells me he has them. They are stored in a bank vault. He views them once every five years, along with many others he keeps there. Does he enjoy them? It is hard to tell.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    I think an underlying fundamental that determines where people fall in the reseller debate is compassion. First, let me be clear that I'm not saying resellers lack compassion. But what seems to vary is instances where it is felt, and to what degree.

    Let's take the case of Minecraft shortages in the run up to Xmas last year. The reality of the shortage was that it affected everyone wanting the set: children, adult collectors, and resellers alike. Anti-resellers latch on to the situation where children are being deprived of the joy of a present. They seem to view this rather concretely and feel empathy, whereas some resellers approach this more abstractly saying the beneficiary is hypothetical and thus remain unattached. Resellers also have suggested that a parent will simply pay more if the desire is great enough, or buy a different present. I think both perspectives have merit, and there is a whole spectrum between, and I think that's why we have so many differing views.

    Earlier this month I was making the rounds of Target clearance aisles. I didn't find much at the first couple stores but finally found 3x Mines of Moria for 50% off. As I was putting them into my cart, a middle aged man turned into the aisle hurriedly with an empty shopping cart and saw me. It was immediately clear to me that he was also there looking for clearance LEGO. He asked me in a somewhat crestfallen tone if I was going to buy all three. I told him "I was planning to... but you can have one." Were I not approached, I would have bought all three and not thought any more about it. It's quite certain that if I had left any, someone else would buy them, so I was opting to benefit rather than leaving it for someone else. So it would seem that, for me, compassion changes my behavior when presented with a real person rather than a hypothetical person.

    In talking with the person at greater length, it turned out that his involvement with LEGO is similar to mine. He is a collector, builder, and reseller. He told me about his Amazon storefront. He told me that he was doing the same circuit of Target stores, and had gotten to each of the other stores just before me, so he actually manged a decent haul. All of a sudden, I didn't feel any empathy for him. Nothing had changed; it was still the same set at a $40 discount. But his usage was now known, and since he was effectively just asking that I hand over money, had I known, I probably wouldn't have.

    Great story, thanks for sharing. I very much feel the same. I have done exactly that, shared sets in the isle with parents who are just looking for 1 of this or 1 of that, while I'm taking everything else.

    So what's the difference between a hypothetical person and the real person in front of me? The real person in front of me is (usually) a parent looking for a deal on LEGO for their kid (very often the kids are with them).

    If I share the set, odds are it will go to that kid. If I just leave them on the shelf, odds are they'll go to the next reseller in line. That may or may not be true everywhere, but I know it is here, I know I compete with other local resellers who do the circuit as well as I do, so frankly "Little Timmy" is likely to miss out regardless because multiple resellers are picking the stores.
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    mathew said:

    omewhere you lost the whole concept that Lego was about building. Maybe if you had some kids of your own you would figure it out ; )

    I think this is where the problem lies. You have to accept that building is not the only way to enjoy Lego. You have to accept everyone has a different point of view and that your point of view is not the only correct one.

    nkx1Yellowcastlekhmellymelpharmjodvitreolum
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    edited August 2013
    mathew said:

    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.

    With anything, that's the definition of collecting. Collecting does not imply using; that's the definition of consuming. That's why I use the distinction of collector and consumer.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    mathew said:

    This is exactly why I don't like resellers. It's like a bunch of Al's from Toy Story 2.

    Allow me to share another point of view.

    I don't know what you do for a living, but I assume you have a business, or a job, or you do something for money.

    Whatever that is, how would you feel if I came in as a customer and wanted a discount, and in return, maybe ask you to work for less money so I can get a better deal?

    How would that make you feel?

    You earn money somehow in life, whatever that is, you probably feel that you earn that money and would be offended if someone asked you to work for less, just so they could have a better deal.

    That is the same thing you're saying to resellers, you're suggesting that the "Al's" of the world shouldn't get their profits because... someone else should get cheap LEGO?

    Just food for thought...
    vitreolumtedward
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    ^Folks, this is tugging at the heartstrings, right here. ;P

    I have a few friends that were hardcore supes serial about collecting ST figs. They did all that we do here. Collect, resell, and trade. The decline of the IP popularity back then, and the desperate hunt for chases completely killed the line.
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950

    I agree, no-one will change, which makes the requirement to keep the conversations separate all the more obvious. Whoever compared the situation to concert tickets hit the nail on the head for me and explains quite clearly why there would be conflict between the 2 extreme's.

    Seems a shame that one of the outcomes of all this is that it appears quite a lot of the 41999's are going to end up stuck in sealed boxes.

    It's not all bad, at least those boxes are really, really nice. Seriously Lego, every set north of $100 should be in a box like that.
    pharmjod
  • DadDad UKMember Posts: 816
    I just can't see where the animosity comes from towards resellers. The haters talk about it as though it is a license to print money. Resellers will experience many lows. Bad judgement causing them to have money tied up in sets that don't retire, or sets that don't increase in value. Late night trips to clear the clearance isle to find someone got there before you or there was never anything to be had in the first place. Damaged stock, unscrupulous buyers etc.

    Do people really expect them to leave the golden goose sat on the shelf just so anyone who wants one won't miss out?
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,929
    ^ But that is where Lego has strength in diversity of product and people. Personally, I couldn't care less if the bottom fell out of the comic con type exclusives for example. Fortunately Lego does not depend on collectors for it's popularity. They can milk that area as much as they like, core sales would not be affected. Mr Gold was a pretty crass affair, yet Lego survives. The CMF line survives too.
    jasor
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Dad said:

    Do people really expect them to leave the golden goose sat on the shelf just so anyone who wants one won't miss out?

    :) I just had a funny thought...

    Imagine walking through a Target and seeing a $100 bill just laying on the ground in the toy isle.

    Would anyone here suggest just leaving it there, so a poor parent who can't afford much LEGO will pick it up and buy their kid a $100 LEGO set?

    It is really the same thing, since leaving sets on the shelf is just leaving money on the shelf, when reselling is your business.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    That brings up another thought...

    Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,929

    That brings up another thought...

    Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

    Probably not, it is just the scale.

    Which brings it down to ... Honey, I only went with one hooker not 50. :-D
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098

    mathew said:

    This is exactly why I don't like resellers. It's like a bunch of Al's from Toy Story 2.

    Allow me to share another point of view.

    I don't know what you do for a living, but I assume you have a business, or a job, or you do something for money.

    Whatever that is, how would you feel if I came in as a customer and wanted a discount, and in return, maybe ask you to work for less money so I can get a better deal?

    How would that make you feel?

    You earn money somehow in life, whatever that is, you probably feel that you earn that money and would be offended if someone asked you to work for less, just so they could have a better deal.

    That is the same thing you're saying to resellers, you're suggesting that the "Al's" of the world shouldn't get their profits because... someone else should get cheap LEGO?

    Just food for thought...
    I guess it depends on your definition of "work". It requires work to drive around town buying up Lego on clearance. Not a lot of work, but some. It requires "work" to call up your siblings and tell them to wake up at 6AM so that they can purchase a Limited Edition Lego set for you (I suspect that you have other ways to do this without even having the siblings involved).

    To be honest it's not very respectable work. It's just a way for some people to make money. But so is gambling, stealing and prostitution.
  • indigoboxindigobox Member Posts: 470
    edited August 2013
    I have spent the past few nights catching up on this mammoth thread and trying to get my head around my thoughts on the reselling debate. People seem to agree and disagree which is all groovy as everyone has the right to an opinion.

    Surely though the reselling debate has been well and truly smashed and bashed around by now. Yes people hate resellers, I get that, and some resellers hate those people, but we are love LEGO for different reasons which is why we all frequent this forum.

    The company I work for resells services. Why? It is easier to resell Internet Services, then pay for engineers to look after the servers and maintain the solutions 24/7. What makes it even better is that we have in house skills to build them ourselves along with the equipment but why add the stress and frustration, killing ourselves trying to fix a bug that is caused by Microsoft or whomever or because we missed a setting. The sole aim of the business is to make a profit and deliver a service to the customer who hasn't got the expertise to do it themselves. We purchase a product for x and sell it for y. Does that make us bad people? I think not. It is paying for our skills and knowledge along with investment, whether time, or money.

    To me it doesn't matter the reason for the buying of LEGO, whether it is to build, sell, so long as it gets bought. Does it really matter all that much what people do with the LEGO they purchase so long as they buy it and keep LEGO making more LEGO so we can buy even more and continue to get unique sets etc?

    People will pay whatever they feel is reasonable. Whether it be £2000 for a UCS MF or £350 for a #41999 Technic Crawler then they will pay it. If they don't want to pay that then they won't. They will either try to negotiate or not bother at all.

    Anyway, just my two cents and I will go back to just being an observer of this thread. :D
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    prof1515 said:

    mathew said:

    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.

    With anything, that's the definition of collecting. Collecting does not imply using; that's the definition of consuming. That's why I use the distinction of collector and consumer.

    But where is the enjoyment in collecting mint condition boxes containing Lego bricks? I can understand maybe hanging onto them to open on special occasions like your son's fifth b-day. But to hold onto something that just begs to be opened and played with seems kind of 40 Year Old Virgin-ish.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030

    That brings up another thought...

    Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

    I think this comes back to hearing about it. If selling LEGO is a persons income then fair play to them. Its been said well no one complains about the big retailers and their profits. Difference is that they are not here logging in and posting about it.

    To be honest the majority of re selling talk has in recent months been confined to the relevant threads. Therefore if its not your cup of tea its been easy to avoid. If we can return to that situation then it will go a long way to restoring a little more harmony.

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,929
    ^ The 40 year old virin reference is partly it. The collector has something that few people have. A perfect unopened copy. Which is what some people like.
  • CircleKCircleK U.S. - Columbus, OhioMember Posts: 1,055

    That brings up another thought...

    Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

    I was getting ready to ask the exact same thing. My profits from selling are generally used to fund the high cost of coming out of the dark ages, but I'm not really sure what difference it makes. Wether it was to build a Green Grocer or to build Savings - the clearance rack got raided all the same.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    mathew said:

    But where is the enjoyment in collecting mint condition boxes containing Lego bricks? I can understand maybe hanging onto them to open on special occasions like your son's fifth b-day. But to hold onto something that just begs to be opened and played with seems kind of 40 Year Old Virgin-ish.

    Again, the joy is in collecting: acquiring them and maintaining them in their pristine condition. You're not talking about collecting, you're talking about using them. Two different things. The joy of collecting comes from knowing that I have them in and in mint condition.

    I have some that I do open (but only if I have one or more kept mint for my collection) and then I find that frustrating because I have no where to put them anyway, they fall over and break apart, they gather dust and are difficult to clean, etc. Where's the joy in that? :-P

    I still haven't displayed the Shuttle Expedition that I built last year because it's a half inch (about a centimeter for the rest of the world) taller than any shelf in my house. I don't want it on a table because it's too easily knocked over and I honestly don't have any tables for displaying it that don't serve functional purposes. So, it sits in a box, only assembled as opposed to still sealed and worth more like the other two copies which remain mint.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    CCC said:

    Probably not, it is just the scale.

    Which brings it down to ... Honey, I only went with one hooker not 50. :-D

    Actually, that isn't as crazy as you think...

    When Tiger Wood's wife found out he was cheating on her, she was prepared to work through it and forgive him for it.

    When she found out it wasn't one, but more than a dozen, that is when she picked up the golf club and chased him down the driveway.
  • ColoradoBricksColoradoBricks Denver, CO, USAMember Posts: 1,674

    CCC said:

    When she found out it wasn't one, but more than a dozen, that is when she picked up the golf club and chased him down the driveway.

    Now, That is cuusoo project idea... car, minifigs and accessories, I smell another winner :)

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    mathew said:

    But where is the enjoyment in collecting mint condition boxes containing Lego bricks?

    With kindness and respect.

    Who are you to say where his enjoyment comes from? Perhaps he just likes looking at the boxes. If that makes him happy, more power to him.
    BlueMoonUSAtiminchicago
  • mathewmathew Member Posts: 2,098
    edited August 2013
    prof1515 said:

    I have some that I do open (but only if I have one or more kept mint for my collection) and then I find that frustrating because I have no where to put them anyway, they fall over and break apart, they gather dust and are difficult to clean, etc. Where's the joy in that? :-P

    But what happens when you trip over the stack of mint condition boxes and ding them up? Do you proceed to sell them off because they are no longer mint? Not building a Lego set because you are worried that they will fall over or become dusty is a bit OCD-ish, don't you think?
  • caperberrycaperberry LondonMember Posts: 2,226
    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    I have some that I do open (but only if I have one or more kept mint for my collection) and then I find that frustrating because I have no where to put them anyway, they fall over and break apart, they gather dust and are difficult to clean, etc. Where's the joy in that? :-P

    But what happens when you trip over the stack of mint condition boxes and ding them up? Do you proceed to sell them off because they are no longer mint? Not building a Lego set because you are worried that they will fall over or become dusty is a bit OCD-ish, don't you think?
    Nothing wrong with OCD. Plenty of AFOLs that gain enjoyment from building find it necessary to align the LEGO text on studs.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    ^ Thats why I managed to beat you then ;-)
    caperberry
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    edited August 2013
    mathew said:

    But what happens when you trip over the stack of mint condition boxes and ding them up? Do you proceed to sell them off because they are no longer mint? Not building a Lego set because you are worried that they will fall over or become dusty is a bit OCD-ish, don't you think?

    They are carefully packed and stored in plastic storage boxes that a) stack easily and don't fall over, and b) keep them protected, pristine and dust-free. Those that are still in the shipping boxes from Lego itself are also usually fairly safe until I get around to inspecting them. I tend to open the boxes which aren't sealed well and have gaps in the box immediately and inspect them to see if they're mint or if they have flaws, nicks, scratches, etc. Those I sell off. Sometimes I luck out and the first one I open is mint though that's rare. In those cases, the extras I bought to increase my chances of a mint-condition set sometimes linger until I eventually want to make some room in storage and open them. Either way, those that are excess end up being sold and by that time they're worth more than I paid for them.

    I fail to see what is so controversial to you. You play with childrens' toys after all. ;-P
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588

    That brings up another thought...

    Are the "rules" of this game any different if it is your hobby side business to fund your own LEGO purchases vs. a full time business that funds your life?

    Depends on if you followed the rules. If someone bought their allowed mount of two 41999s, resold one for 400 to get the one they kept for free, then I see it as no issue since they followed and played by the rules. Thats part of why I softened my stance on the clearance clearers. I'd rather see Lil Timmy get a shot at a deal, but I also see that they are not breaking any rules.


    Imagine walking through a Target and seeing a $100 bill just laying on the ground in the toy isle.

    Would anyone here suggest just leaving it there, so a poor parent who can't afford much LEGO will pick it up and buy their kid a $100 LEGO set?

    It is really the same thing, since leaving sets on the shelf is just leaving money on the shelf, when reselling is your business.

    It is in no way the same thing, but to be honest, the "right" thing to do (in my opinion of course) is to turn it into the store manager. You never know who dropped it, it could have been a Grandma on a restricted budget or a Rich Kid who gets 500 bucks a week allowance. Either way, It isn't yours to take.
    Dad said:

    I just can't see where the animosity comes from towards resellers.

    Having throught about it, I really do think most people's issue here at least is from how they come across when they post in a lot of threads about their stockpiles and how they refuse to let something sell until it hits XXX dollar amount.

    mathew said:

    This is exactly why I don't like resellers. It's like a bunch of Al's from Toy Story 2.

    Allow me to share another point of view.

    I don't know what you do for a living, but I assume you have a business, or a job, or you do something for money.

    Whatever that is, how would you feel if I came in as a customer and wanted a discount, and in return, maybe ask you to work for less money so I can get a better deal?

    How would that make you feel?

    You earn money somehow in life, whatever that is, you probably feel that you earn that money and would be offended if someone asked you to work for less, just so they could have a better deal.

    That is the same thing you're saying to resellers, you're suggesting that the "Al's" of the world shouldn't get their profits because... someone else should get cheap LEGO?

    Just food for thought...
    Without arguing if re-selling as a profession should be comparable to other professions, there is also a fundamental difference in that re-sellers do one of two things, either 1) Provide little to no benefit except to themselves by simply buying a product and instantly reselling it for a profit (41999, new Gamesystems around Christmas, Tickle me Elmos ect ect) or 2) provide a future benefit to consumers at the expense of current consumers. If Bob is a Mechanic that won't work for less then 50 an hour, his working or refusal to work does not cause either of these issue.
    prof1515 said:

    mathew said:

    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.

    With anything, that's the definition of collecting. Collecting does not imply using; that's the definition of consuming. That's why I use the distinction of collector and consumer.

    That is actually a fairly interesting POV. Would you say that a consumer does not have to be a collector but a collector is a consumer? (Or rather, that collectors are a sub-group of consumers?)


    If I share the set, odds are it will go to that kid. If I just leave them on the shelf, odds are they'll go to the next reseller in line. That may or may not be true everywhere, but I know it is here, I know I compete with other local resellers who do the circuit as well as I do, so frankly "Little Timmy" is likely to miss out regardless because multiple resellers are picking the stores.

    That's an association fallacy, You assume if you don't take them some other re-seller will. You don;t know it, can't prove it. Call it naive if you like, but to me Id rather think that passing things don't always mean a "bad" person gets them. The Wal Mart doing clearance here still have a lot of their sets that went on clearance two weeks later. Not everywhere is a re-seller hell. Also don't justify doing something by saying "well others do it" or "If I don't someone else will." Just say I got there first and wanted them all.
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    edited August 2013

    I think this comes back to hearing about it. If selling LEGO is a persons income then fair play to them. Its been said well no one complains about the big retailers and their profits. Difference is that they are not here logging in and posting about it.

    To be honest the majority of re selling talk has in recent months been confined to the relevant threads. Therefore if its not your cup of tea its been easy to avoid. If we can return to that situation then it will go a long way to restoring a little more harmony.

    Spot on. And this whole thing re-flared (and was spawned from) the 41999 thread(s). Since "they" were told to lay off threads they have for the most part. Problem though is reputation is a b****. For example, I am sure a lot of people blow my posts/thoughts off because I'm the "I hate all things re-seller they are evil" guy. So the issue is when they make the comments, some people roll the eyes and "oh here they go again."

    Some of the issue is also the fact posts get moved instead of deleted. I wouldnt have known about any of thise recent flare up had these posts not gotten moved here (and hence never would have been involved) had this thread not been revived.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    pvancil27 said:

    That is actually a fairly interesting POV. Would you say that a consumer does not have to be a collector but a collector is a consumer? (Or rather, that collectors are a sub-group of consumers?)

    Well, in a sense, collectors are consumers in that they purchase but they don't purchase for the same reason as other consumers. Likewise, consumers can collect even if they do so without regard to the archival protocols that collectors utilize (ie, maintaining condition, etc). One could probably more aptly distinguish them as consumer collectors as opposed to traditional/archival collectors but the distinction between a consumer collector and any other consumer is less obvious.

    I mean, the toys that I played with as a kid are still for the most part in pretty good shape. However, they're not in the boxes and thus not worth all that much except for those which are relatively rare. Modern toy manufacturing doesn't produce many such cases, especially with companies like Lego which manufacture hundreds of thousands of each set. Additionally, toy collecting has become a much larger hobby and there's more awareness of it as well which means that unlike older toys there are far more examples of well-cared for toys and even sealed toys. That makes condition all the more important since value has and always will be tied to that regardless of scarcity.
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    edited August 2013
    CCC said:

    There was a line way up there from @LFT - these are now almost too expensive to open. If you bought one and have just got it delivered, do you now "exchange" it for a £300-400 set instead?

    I think that depends on how important money is to you. I can't speak to this set, as I had absolutely no desire to own one, but I can say that I have a first edition UCS Falcon still in the box (though I did break the seals awhile back) that I will be opening the minute I have space to display it, regardless of what it's selling for at that time.

    To that end, I have to imagine there are many people who feel similarly about this set - people who want the set because they think it's a cool set and not because it could potentially be a pile of money.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    As a collector of many things past and present, there are differences between each collectible. Kids used to "flip" baseball cards against the wall and put them in their bicycle wheels to make a flapping sound. When I used to collect cards as a youth I didn't care if they were mint. I do now.

    When I got my first car, I washed it every day and kept it clean. People tend to take care of things that they cherish and Lego is not an exception. I like nice minty boxes for my collection and just because I add a Lego set to my collection doesn't mean I have to build it. Some sets look plain boring to build, yet I need it to complete my collection, so I buy it and put it away. If I want to build it, I will buy 2. One to build and one to put away. One could argue that this type of Lego enthusiast is more beneficial to TLG because we are buying more than one copy.

    Actions figures are meant to be played with. Cars are meant to be driven, but people collect both and enthusiasts want both mint.

    indigoboxcoachie
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:

    mathew said:

    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.

    With anything, that's the definition of collecting. Collecting does not imply using; that's the definition of consuming. That's why I use the distinction of collector and consumer.

    But where is the enjoyment in collecting mint condition boxes containing Lego bricks? I can understand maybe hanging onto them to open on special occasions like your son's fifth b-day. But to hold onto something that just begs to be opened and played with seems kind of 40 Year Old Virgin-ish.
    Please let's not have this debate again. I had it out with Prof1515 on this point awhile back for pages and pages. He has an extremely narrow definition of collecting - which is his right - I just didn't particularly care for his previous attempts to try and label everyone who doesn't collect "his way" as mere consumers who aren't collectors at all. Since that time, he hasn't been trying to do that, so let's just let it lie.

    In the end - he can collect the way he wants, and we don't have to understand or agree with it. And others can collect the way they want and still call themselves collectors whether he agrees with it or not. We all love LEGO, and that's all that matters on the collector front.

    Now, back to bashing resellers... ;-)
    cheshirecatLegoFanTexas
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    mathew said:

    prof1515 said:


    But where is the enjoyment in collecting mint condition boxes containing Lego bricks? I can understand maybe hanging onto them to open on special occasions like your son's fifth b-day. But to hold onto something that just begs to be opened and played with seems kind of 40 Year Old Virgin-ish.

    You do not seem to be able to grasp the concept that different people derive enjoyment from different things. Just because you do not understand something does not mean it does not exist.

    I would get no pleasure from building 21103 but I love looking at the sealed box set up next to my sealed hoverboard, Grays sports almanac and nike air mags.

    cheshirecat
  • pvancil27pvancil27 Member Posts: 588
    prof1515 said:

    pvancil27 said:

    That is actually a fairly interesting POV. Would you say that a consumer does not have to be a collector but a collector is a consumer? (Or rather, that collectors are a sub-group of consumers?)

    Well, in a sense, collectors are consumers in that they purchase but they don't purchase for the same reason as other consumers. Likewise, consumers can collect even if they do so without regard to the archival protocols that collectors utilize (ie, maintaining condition, etc). One could probably more aptly distinguish them as consumer collectors as opposed to traditional/archival collectors but the distinction between a consumer collector and any other consumer is less obvious.

    I mean, the toys that I played with as a kid are still for the most part in pretty good shape. However, they're not in the boxes and thus not worth all that much except for those which are relatively rare. Modern toy manufacturing doesn't produce many such cases, especially with companies like Lego which manufacture hundreds of thousands of each set. Additionally, toy collecting has become a much larger hobby and there's more awareness of it as well which means that unlike older toys there are far more examples of well-cared for toys and even sealed toys. That makes condition all the more important since value has and always will be tied to that regardless of scarcity.
    Got ya. Get what you are saying now. Basically it's the old opener vs mint sealed collector debate.
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    It seems that all I'm doing in this thread is adding people to my collection that enjoy calling me a $%&#%. Thank God I'm not a consumer ;)
    CircleKFollowsCloselyjasor
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    Dad said:

    I just can't see where the animosity comes from towards resellers. The haters talk about it as though it is a license to print money. Resellers will experience many lows. Bad judgement causing them to have money tied up in sets that don't retire, or sets that don't increase in value. Late night trips to clear the clearance isle to find someone got there before you or there was never anything to be had in the first place. Damaged stock, unscrupulous buyers etc.

    Do people really expect them to leave the golden goose sat on the shelf just so anyone who wants one won't miss out?

    take 41999 as an example, unless we assume that all those buying them on ebay are resellers investing then there are people being made to pay well over rrp for a set that would almost certainly still be in stock if not for resellers, and quite likely if not for resellers breaking the two limit. further dont cry and whine if lego ban you and then turn around and break the limit at the first opportunity. Buy as many FBs or DSs as you like, theres enough to go around, minecraft sets at christmas? if you cant see why some might see that as distateful then i genuinely pity you.

    Then also dont spoil the hobby for others by turning every thread about a new set being released into a simple comodity, thats an exageration but with 41999 it certainly felt like that. This is a fan\collectors site and just like some like to collect sealed boxes, many have a real passion for the product opened or sealed and seeing it portrayed as just a means to make money withun hours of it being released will and does upset/annoy some people.

    i think kevs point earlier about the response that ticket touts would get on a music fans site is spot on, some of us may seem like haters but compared to what that respinse would be were probably angels. to be clear im not a hater, my view has been modified by discussions like these.
    SirKevbags
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    edited August 2013

    Dad said:

    Do people really expect them to leave the golden goose sat on the shelf just so anyone who wants one won't miss out?

    :) I just had a funny thought...

    Imagine walking through a Target and seeing a $100 bill just laying on the ground in the toy isle.

    Would anyone here suggest just leaving it there, so a poor parent who can't afford much LEGO will pick it up and buy their kid a $100 LEGO set?

    It is really the same thing, since leaving sets on the shelf is just leaving money on the shelf, when reselling is your business.
    Errrrmm... You realize that's not the same thing at all, right? Being as one is perfectly legal and one is theft?

    To be fair, I wouldn't suggest just leaving it on the floor... but I would suggest taking it up to the service desk. It seems more than likely that someone is going to realize they dropped that.

    EDIT: Didn't realize @pvancil27 had more-or-less already said the same thing.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,238
    mathew said:

    Yes, but what is the point of buying something that only stays packaged up? I can kind of see it with action figures, but not with Lego.

    I appreciate that it's probably not the norm, but I very much love my MISB sets and hope that doesn't disqualify me as a fan. Either way, it's really off topic in this discussion so let's swerve back on the road.
    cheshirecattiminchicago
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337
    edited August 2013


    take 41999 as an example, unless we assume that all those buying them on ebay are resellers investing then there are people being made to pay well over rrp for a set

    I do not believe anyone is being made to do anything. All the transactions seem to be between two consenting parties.

    On a side note is there any hate for resellers buying up on the secondary market? Just curious.

    One more question - given that we now know lego has no intention of enforcing limits on their exclusives depsite their suggestion of "2 per household" is it fair game to exceed the limits on the next exclusive?

This discussion has been closed.

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