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The Community Perspective on Reselling

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Comments

  • pharmjodpharmjod 1,170 miles to Wall Drug, USAMember Posts: 2,916

    ^^^^ I think its definitely fair to say, you're not a real fan if you haven't hidden actual LEGO or their value from your better half! Isn't that a key part of the hobby Even where your other half even likes LEGO they don't need to know everything do they? ;-)

    This made me LOL a lil ;)
    LegoboyYellowcastleBrickDancerFollowsCloselyjasor
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    ^ Makes me the biggest fan there is!
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013



    It would be nice if reading this someone at LEGO put two and two together and decided to now ban in store the person they've banned from [email protected] It would be nice if they also banned your extended family @LFT but sadly I doubt that's possible. Its nothing personal, but knowing that the rule exists, you decided the rule didn't have to apply to you - much like those who double park, or jump ques. Not illegal, not worth getting upset over, but annoying, anti-social and just a little dickish.

    The only thing Lego is concerned with putting two and two together is dollar bills...

    LOL.. I can picture walking into a Lego store and seeing your photo hanging on their "Wall of Shame" banning you from purchasing anything in the Lego store, so they instead you go to Toys R Us and buy them with a 20% off coupon...

    Not exactly a "Win' for Lego...

    FollowsClosely
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    ^ I guess you haven't noticed that some have been banned from [email protected] And as @LFT says himself, they all know him in his local, so no need for a WANTED poster.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013

    ^ I guess you haven't noticed that some have been banned from [email protected] And as @LFT says himself, they all know him in his local, so no need for a WANTED poster.

    I am well aware that people have been banned, but how is that benefiting Lego's profitability by someone purchasing the sets from a 3rd party distributor instead of right from Lego..?

  • jdylakjdylak Member Posts: 281
    Pitfall69 said:

    Oh boy. The sarcasm :) Every thread needs this from time to time.

    Mine was actually a joke to have some fun. I think it'd be funny if that all were actually going to happen. Building the sets up and having races.

  • jdylakjdylak Member Posts: 281
    Legoboy said:

    @jdylak - don't make me do it to you again! I have a very good memory! Just about everybody you know loves a B-Wing don't they? ;o)

    That they do. The one coworker sold his quick and is saving one for Christmas. Another donated two as raffle prices in Big Brothers/Sisters picnic we sponsored here. He sold the other three as well. Another is giving them away this Christmas for the Toys For Tots program we do every year. Tho I don't KNOW everyone of them that received/will receive one, I am sure they will love them.

  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    Let's use this an example of right and wrong, real fan and fake fan.

    What is the difference if LFT buys a #41999 set and sells it next year for $600 new or if I build it and then sell it for $300 used..?

    Am I a real fan because I opened it, built it, and then sold it..?

    We both made a profit....
    pharmjod
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013
    I regret that I was out for the day and couldn't clear this up sooner. I feel partially responsible because I may have started this "real fan" thing when I wrote: "Basically, it's the situation that some real fans will be deprived of this set at a reasonable price by those that see it as nothing more than a commodity."

    I used "real fan" there to mean anyone that wanted to own the product for themselves and weren't purchasing it simply to flip it for profit.

    A real fan might: buy the set, crack the seals as soon as they get home and build it; be a MISB collector and clear off a part of his shelf for the prettiest box that LEGO has put out in recent memory; might have every intention of keeping the set for themselves, but end up selling it because the money is too good to pass up.

    A person that I don't consider a real fan of this set: says they don't like technic, don't understand technic, or have never paid any attention to the theme, and they're buying it solely to sell. That person may be a LEGO fan in general, but not of this set, and their intention to scalp it is clear from the start.

    LFT took this and ran with it by describing himself as a real fan of technic, but also a fan of taking his kids to the water park or something. I responded to this specifically with LFT in mind: that his fandom of this set stopped when he could make $160 on this set. I am not trivializing the value of $160 for people in general. But, I don't see this as an opportunity cost for LFT, where choosing not to sell his set directly deprives his children of a trip to the water park.
    Dougoutcaperberry
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013

    If I had not purchased my 6 copies, then it is quite possible those 6 copies would go to people who want to build the set.

    Or they could have gone to other resellers, we just don't know.

    However, the demand from "real fans" far exceeds the 6 extra people who might have gotten a copy. At that point, blame completely transfers from me to TLG.

    So perhaps I'm responsible for 6 people having to do without or pay over RRP, but TLG is responsible for thousands of people having to do the same.

    I would submit that they are, by far, the more "guilty party", doubly so since I'm playing their game by their rules.

    I agree that TLG is in a better position to address this systemically, and I already said they bear some responsibility in this. But I don't agree that it's wholly on them. We don't know who would have bought the sets if you had left them, but IMO that also doesn't mean you should just indulge yourself because if you don't, someone else will. That's the sort of personal accountability about which drdave was talking.

    100% profit in 10 days vs. 100% profit in 1 year are not the same thing...

    On an annualized basis, that is a 3,650% profit. I'll take that any day of the week.

    I think you of all people should know that this is playing fast and loose with the reality of the situation. Projecting it out over a year or not defining that you could only get a handful of sets doesn't accurately portray the scope. This was a one time deal with limited exposure so you should speak in absolute terms: it was a chance to make $1000. It wasn't a decision upon which your resell operation hinges for livelihood.
  • nkx1nkx1 Member Posts: 719
    edited August 2013
    At the end of the day, it is simply opinion whether or not purchasing #41999 (either one or multiple sets) solely to resell is unethical. I do not think it is, and others think it is. Who's right? No one, it's all opinion. It's not like we're talking about slavery or something here.

    Also, I agree with what (I believe) LFT stated previously- if Lego truly wanted everyone to have a chance at buying this set, they would have produced more.

    Given that there was ample opportunity to buy one here in the U.S., anyone here could have purchased one if they truly wanted to. That means they would have made the necessary arrangements to buy one, whether that entails saving ahead of time, setting aside the time to visit a Lego store (if one is within reasonable range), checking online when they were on sale, etc. There needs to be some personal accountability here on the part of the poor souls who missed out (though, interestingly enough, I haven't read about anyone whining they didn't get one). There are exceptions to everything; however, generally speaking, if someone missed out, that simply too bad and better luck next time. I also apply this to myself, who almost didn't get one because I waited until the last minute.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208
    I too am very uncomfortable with the "real fan" talk. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here, period.

    Again, I appreciate LFT, et al, bringing their viewpoints on the reselling side of things.

    That being said, I think many of us are frustrated with the whole #41999 situation. Of course TLG is partly responsible. But so are those that abuse the system. I don't collect Technic and am not moved by my fandom to own this. No matter how you cut it, 20,000 were not going to be enough to satisfy the likely number of fans and/or give them enough time to buy. And yes, I agree that those unable to meet the $200 price tag certainly aren't going to be able to get it in the aftermarket.

    What bugs me is the rampant speculation, rule bending and blatant bragging, even in the puddles we've set aside for this. I'm all for the back and forth on sets that have been readily available for the world to buy. But the shenanigans that accompany the procurement and sale of exclusives and/or limited availability sets bugs me anywhere here.

    I think you can discuss the changing value of the set in such a way that doesn't rub the rest of us so wrong. If the limit is 2, then buy your two and let's see where the ball bounces.

    @LFT, your situation frustrates me the most because we commiserated with you when you were banned by [email protected] You were warned, heeded the warning and still got canned. Many of us felt that was wrong by TLG. But we were glad you could still buy in store. But getting your family to help you buy any extra copies this time, let alone 4 or the 46 you opined somewhat negates the support many of us showed.

    You say the right things during many of these discussions yet the words don't seem to match the actions. And while I buy the concept of selling the sets to take one's family on a vacation, I don't buy it for you. It's a straw man response. Unless you've pulled the wool over all our eyes, you're doing well enough to have skipped this set in its entirety. I won't go into Lloyd or Minecraft.

    I know you're not alone in doing this and I appreciate your openness to discuss these things. But you're losing your audience and I hate to see that. No matter what the more vocal might insinuate, you are a valuable member of this community and I really appreciate your input on all* issues here.

    * All = "Toys R Us All" i.e. all issues unrelated to Economics, History, Geography and Global Politics. ;o)
    sidersddPitfall69LostInTranslationcaperberryJP3804y2joshpillpodjasor
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208
    edited August 2013
    nkx1 said:

    It's not like we're talking about slavery or something here.

    Yes, it's LEGO, I think we understand it's lack of significance in world history.
    nkx1 said:

    Given that there was ample opportunity to buy one here in the U.S., anyone here could have purchased one if they truly wanted to.

    I think the consensus is that 10 days would not qualify as "ample."
    nkx1 said:

    (though, interestingly enough, I haven't read about anyone whining they didn't get one).

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here because without that, you're coming across...poorly. And by my account, at least 1 person was missing one in this thread but hopefully has worked out a unit via PM.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    edited August 2013
    rocao said:

    I agree that TLG is in a better position to address this systemically, and I already said they bear some responsibility in this. But I don't agree that it's wholly on them. We don't know who would have bought the sets if you had left them, but IMO that also doesn't mean you should just indulge yourself because if you don't, someone else will. That's the sort of personal accountability about which drdave was talking.

    Is there a middle ground between 2 and 50?

    You and Dr. Dave have your points of view, I have mine, I'd like to think we can respect each other's point of view. I can assure you that I respect your point of view. I would only ask the same in response.

    We each have our own views on "personal accountability", it is a really easy and slippery slope to start making absolute statements about "right and wrong" when really, as someone else stated, they are just opinions.

    I totally hear that you think the limit should be 2 and that my getting 6 was too many. Fair enough.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    Like I said before, Lego's goal was to get rid of these as fast as possible and they didn't care who bought them or how many, otherwise there would have been a 1 per household/address and 1 per customer in store... I read about people walking into Lego stores and buying every set that they had...

  • FollowsCloselyFollowsClosely Member Posts: 1,034
    TLG requested a limit of 2 per. As customers and fans if lego we should not go around the rules and buy 4, 6, 14 just to mske a quick $$ ... and lego should have a better system in place to prevent such abuse.

    However, I am a hypocrite: as I purchased 2 from lego.com, two from tru (@$170), and 2 from the Tysons store.

    Bottom line is that 20,000 is way too small of a number and it only encourages "abuse" of the "2 per order" rule. If TLG wants to discourage reselling, then stop mr gold, stop limited edition sets.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I too am very uncomfortable with the "real fan" talk. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here, period.

    Again, I appreciate LFT, et al, bringing their viewpoints on the reselling side of things.

    Sometimes I think it would be easier to just leave. It seems that I'm the favorite whipping boy, any time I say something that isn't popular, the piling on starts.

    Many other people can and do say similar things without the entire gang piling up on it.

    I took a two month break awhile back because of this, I got tired of being judged and insulted by people who have no standing to do so. When I finally came back, it was nice for awhile, but it has started back up again.

    That being said, I think many of us are frustrated with the whole #41999 situation. Of course TLG is partly responsible. But so are those that abuse the system.

    In this specific case, I disagree. Yes, Minecraft shelf clearing two weeks before Christmas is indeed a reseller problem for LEGO, but in this case, it makes not one ounce of difference what resellers do or don't do.

    This set was available for 10 days. If you had a magic wand and could prevent all resellers from buying any copies, maybe it would have been out 30 days.

    With only 20K copies, someone, somewhere was going to end up unhappy. The power to fix that is totally within TLG's to make happen, produce another 200K of this set and the problem is instantly and totally solved. (besides pissing off "true fans" who thought they had a true limited edition of course)

    :)

    I think you can discuss the changing value of the set in such a way that doesn't rub the rest of us so wrong. If the limit is 2, then buy your two and let's see where the ball bounces.

    Yes, but consider that the other option is to not talk about it at all. In a free and open forum, you just aren't going to be able to thread the needle quite that closely, if you don't like it, ban all talk of reselling and move on.

    If you jump on it too hard, some members will just lose interest. It is a fine line to walk, and I get that, because you don't want the casual LEGO fan's to be run off either. I don't envy the job, but I do understand it.

    @LFT, your situation frustrates me the most because we commiserated with you when you were banned by [email protected] You were warned, heeded the warning and still got canned. Many of us felt that was wrong by TLG. But we were glad you could still buy in store. But getting your family to help you buy any extra copies this time, let alone 4 or the 46 you opined somewhat negates the support many of us showed.

    All fair points. Two things in reply:

    1. I'm not trying to run the LFT fan club, so if someone here doesn't like me, I'll survive. :)

    2. I don't post every time I don't have my family buy extra copies, if I did you'd see it in that light. This was the exception, not the rule.

    You say the right things during many of these discussions yet the words don't seem to match the actions.

    Consider that you don't have enough information about my overall actions to make that judgement. :)

    And while I buy the concept of selling the sets to take one's family on a vacation, I don't buy it for you. It's a straw man response. Unless you've pulled the wool over all our eyes, you're doing well enough to have skipped this set in its entirety.

    I do well enough, but probably far less than most of you think I do.

    No matter what the more vocal might insinuate, you are a valuable member of this community and I really appreciate your input on all* issues here.

    * All = "Toys R Us All" i.e. all issues unrelated to Economics, History, Geography and Global Politics. ;o)

    Aww, my favorite subjects!!!

    When are we getting the "off-topic" forum so that we can have our cake and eat it too? :)
  • FollowsCloselyFollowsClosely Member Posts: 1,034
    Love the disclaimer! Well done.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757

    TLG requested a limit of 2 per. As customers and fans if lego we should not go around the rules and buy 4, 6, 14 just to mske a quick $$ ... and lego should have a better system in place to prevent such abuse.

    However, I am a hypocrite: as I purchased 2 from lego.com, two from tru (@$170), and 2 from the Tysons store.

    Bottom line is that 20,000 is way too small of a number and it only encourages "abuse" of the "2 per order" rule. If TLG wants to discourage reselling, then stop mr gold, stop limited edition sets.

    Exactly... The whole Mr Gold fiasco was nothing more than a way to sell more minifigs... I am not even into minifigures and I randomly bought about 20 of series 10 here and there where as I never bought any before... I am sure that I am not alone..

    If Lego sells twice the amount of minifigures as they did before because of a "Special" limited figure, they won't care if people resell that special figure for $600+

  • FollowsCloselyFollowsClosely Member Posts: 1,034
    I also rarely break the unenforceable limits. But this limited edition is just too good not to stock up on. However, and I think lft would agree, that I would have liked to and could have purchased 40 of these. As soon as this set was announced I knew it would be a winner. A no risk investment. But I didn't do this so called little timmy could get his truck.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013

    nkx1 said:

    It's not like we're talking about slavery or something here.

    Yes, it's LEGO, I think we understand it's lack of significance in world history.
    nkx1 said:

    Given that there was ample opportunity to buy one here in the U.S., anyone here could have purchased one if they truly wanted to.

    I think the consensus is that 10 days would not qualify as "ample."
    nkx1 said:

    (though, interestingly enough, I haven't read about anyone whining they didn't get one).

    I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here because without that, you're coming across...poorly. And by my account, at least 1 person was missing one in this thread but hopefully has worked out a unit via PM.

    Out of everyone that I have talked to in the past few days about this set, the majority of the complaints about not getting a set was for future investment... It seems to me that most people who missed out are pissed because they missed an opportunity to make a buck and not so much because they wanted the actual set to build and display...
    Thanos75Furrysaurus
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    The whole VIP Keychain fiasco really pissed alot of people off. In that thread there was much talk of who was more valuable. If you didn't get one then I guess Lego didn't consider you valuable.

    Then, Minecraft came along..Mr. Gold came next and now all the displeasure with #41999. Maybe not the set itself, but the animosity towards Lego and certain people within this forum because of it.

    Lego can't make everyone happy. People within this forum will rub people the wrong way or disagree with one another. It happens. Lego isn't perfect and neither are we. We are all here for one reason...The love for Lego.
    Dougout
  • LegofanscottLegofanscott Member Posts: 622
    Am i the only one who thinks Lego should make limited sets more commonplace?

    Lets face it, "normal" life Lego sets don't really seem as exclusive as they used to be where long shelf lifes and supply are much bigger now.

    I think its nice to have sets like 41999 released every once in a while, certainly gives this forum something to talk about :)
    DougoutgmpirateFollowsClosely
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    I would love to see Lego release a 200 part upgrade pack(with instructions) so that everyone who has a 9398 can modify it to the 41999 model...

    I think that would be the most fair thing to do...
    DougoutLegoFanTexasFollowsClosely
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    @Yellowcastle It is all on you for resurrecting this thread ;)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I would love to see Lego release a 200 part upgrade pack(with instructions) so that everyone who has a 9398 can modify it to the 41999 model...

    I think that would be the most fair thing to do...

    That is a great idea... I'd pay $50+ for that in a heart beat... I love the look of the blue truck MUCH more than the normal #9398, but just can't justify opening a #41999.

    I don't care about the numbered licence plate, give me a generic one and the blue parts, I'm there! :)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Pitfall69 said:

    @Yellowcastle It is all on you for resurrecting this thread ;)

    Respect in all directions is what I'd most like to see in this topic.

    The thing is, if we can all agree that we each have feelings and opinions and can express them without personal attacks or judgement, then it works much better.
    nkx1Furrysaurus
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    @legofantexas: I'm not sure if you felt disrespected by anything I wrote or if you are just level setting. I wasn't disregarding your opinions and the fact that I respond directly to them indicates that I respect them enough to carry on the discussion.

    As far as personal accountability, I am not talking about ethics. It stemmed from the statement that TLG is wholly to blame and resellers not at all if people weren't able to buy a copy to own. TLG were to blame for making too few, and only loosely enforcing purchase limits. Any given reseller was justified because another reseller might come and do the same.

    I wasn't talking about just circumventing limits, so I'm not singling out you and the few others who have admitting to buying more than two. I think the whole dynamic is unfortunate for those wanting sets.
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    edited August 2013

    I would love to see Lego release a 200 part upgrade pack(with instructions) so that everyone who has a 9398 can modify it to the 41999 model...

    I think that would be the most fair thing to do...

    That is a great idea... I'd pay $50+ for that in a heart beat... I love the look of the blue truck MUCH more than the normal #9398, but just can't justify opening a #41999.

    I don't care about the numbered licence plate, give me a generic one and the blue parts, I'm there! :)
    I have been saying this since Lego showed the first pictures of the 41999 set many months ago... I knew exactly what was going to happen when they said there were only going to be 20,000 of the set produced....

    Think how many more 9398 sets that they could sell if they had alternate body kits for it...

    This is something a few of my designer friends from around the world and I have been talking about for years... Have a base set with multiple modular enhancements for it...

    Let the builder make the model their own how they choose...
    YellowcastleLegoFanTexasFurrysaurusjasor
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    rocao said:

    @legofantexas: I'm not sure if you felt disrespected by anything I wrote or if you are just level setting.

    I did, actually... but thank you for saying that. :) I don't think you meant it as disrespect, not intentionally, but I took it that way. I'm sorry if I ever come across as disrespectful, please call me on it if I ever do, it is never intended.

    Moving on...
    rocao said:

    As far as personal accountability, I am not talking about ethics. It stemmed from the statement that TLG is wholly to blame and resellers not at all if people weren't able to buy a copy to own.

    Hmm, you completely lost me here. I consider personal accountability and ethics to be one and the same. Just two sides of the same coin.

    What did you mean then?
    rocao said:

    TLG were to blame for making too few, and only loosely enforcing purchase limits. Any given reseller was justified because another reseller might come and do the same.

    I do not believe that I can justify an action solely by saying, "well, if I don't do it, someone else will". My children say that nonsense, my reply is always, "if everyone else was jumping off a cliff, would you do the same?"

    Otherwise, the same logic could be used for crazy things... "well, if I don't rob that bank, someone else will do it first, so I might as well".

    Yes, crazy, but that is the same logic. (I think so anyway)
    rocao said:

    I wasn't talking about just circumventing limits, so I'm not singling out you and the few others who have admitting to buying more than two. I think the whole dynamic is unfortunate for those wanting sets.

    Yes, it is... an upgrade kit for #9398 would fix that to some extent, I'd love to buy the extra parts. It would also generate another #9398 sale since I'd have both built at the same time to play with my son together with them.
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    I think if LFT only bought 6 of this set than that is his way of holding himself personally accountable. I can't criticize him for circumventing a loose policy, I told a bunch of my friends to buy 2 for investment or a possible quick flip to me for a small profit although none of them listened to me (fools I tell you, fools!!). I'm sorry to the folks that missed out, however you must consider LFT will also sell his to other fans that have also missed out.
    Furrysaurus
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208
    ^ For their firstborn... ;o)
  • CrowkillersCrowkillers Member Posts: 757
    Dougout said:

    I think if LFT only bought 6 of this set than that is his way of holding himself personally accountable. I can't criticize him for circumventing a loose policy, I told a bunch of my friends to buy 2 for investment or a possible quick flip to me for a small profit although none of them listened to me (fools I tell you, fools!!). I'm sorry to the folks that missed out, however you must consider LFT will also sell his to other fans that have also missed out.

    I did the same thing... This wasn't something that I kept secretive to myself... I've been telling everyone about the set and it's exclusiveness... In fact, I just did a toy show in Pittsburgh a couple weeks ago and made a lot of friends and told everyone about it... Now I don't know if they went through with purchasing it or not, but I felt as though I did my share to promote this set for Lego.... ;)

  • samiam391samiam391 A log cabin in PA, United StatesMember Posts: 4,380

    I too am very uncomfortable with the "real fan" talk. We are all fans or we wouldn't be here, period.

    Again, I appreciate LFT, et al, bringing their viewpoints on the reselling side of things.

    Sometimes I think it would be easier to just leave. It seems that I'm the favorite whipping boy, any time I say something that isn't popular, the piling on starts.

    Many other people can and do say similar things without the entire gang piling up on it.

    I took a two month break awhile back because of this, I got tired of being judged and insulted by people who have no standing to do so. When I finally came back, it was nice for awhile, but it has started back up again.
    I'd also like to utter a quick apology, just in case I offended you or anyone else @LegoFanTexas. I truly meant no harm, I never do, but I've thought about my words and see how they might come off as accusing. Which they were not supposed too.

    As far as you considering yourself to be the whipping dog, I think it's only because you are more outspoken then any other re-seller. You stand by your opinions, and you'll defend them to the end. You'll have your debates with re-sellers and casual readers alike. Whether that's over re-selling, your website, what's for dinner, or when FB and DS really will retire (aka the apocalypse).

    While I may disagree with you here and there, I actually have a lot of respect for you @LegoFanTexas. Just thought you should know that. And I know I'm not the only one on here who thinks the same.
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    I dont think this is anything like as big a problem for TLG as minecraft or even Lloyd. There just aren't going to be hundreds of thousands of kids wabring this set for Christmas, if Lego has any sense they'll not mention it again.

    This is a good thing as if it were, Lego's response would surely be to never do a limited exclusive again which would be bad for all lego fans, collectors and ironically resellers. I doubt they'll do an upgrade pack, however much sense it makes, in fairness they shouldn't need to.

    That said there will be some kids who hear about this set and want it and can't have it because you can now buy a real car for less. Their hurt, and perhaps their parents, will be far more than any resellers upset at being judged on the basis of their actions. And lets be clear @LFT went on and on about how he never knowingly broke the rules, would never break the rules in the future etc. Yet at the very first opportunity he knowingly breaks the rules and then brags about it. To be frank if you dont like the way people judge you then firstly look at your own actions rather than trying to rationalise away other people's points of view, or accept or ignore the criticism, the same as I get, to a lesser extent admittedly, for my point of view. It's an online forum we can only be and are all judged on what we say.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    edited August 2013
    Lol. I wondered what the hell had happened when I saw this thread again. I fear my side of the debate might be misconstrude now that the threads have been merged. But hey. :-)

    What Sam and Kev said.

    I in no way intended to offend insult you in any way @LFT. I don't think I did, but just in case, I apologise. Many of your views and input within the boards I enjoy reading. Dare I say it, many of them I actually share with you.

    I hope there are are hard feelings.

    J.
    Furrysaurus
  • littlepuppilittlepuppi Member Posts: 181
    @LFT , I hope you will accept I often fight your corner.. And I DO like your points, I keep my counsel, some I agree with, some I don't, but i'm a lurker not a keyboard jockey. I read everyone's comments, usually think I then have a better idea and then keep it at that... Your comments DO inspire attention though and thought, and in doing so can and do court controversy. I agree with you on personal attacks, waste of time and probably a little bit of green eyed monster in there as well, but I have to say, some times I do "want" to post a reply to you and others, I just choose not to..

    In the heat of the moment I think some people (and im pointing the finger widely here) post and then move on, once its out there, you cannot take it back, and conversations on BB's are not like the spoken word, with quoting and counter quoting and it often gets nastier quicker - or where it never would have done...

    My advice.. If you are going to post... Make sure your skin is thick as its a jungle out there :D
    Dougout
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    The most sensible thing lego did with this set was release it in summer, away from the Christmas frenzy.
    FollowsCloselyYellowcastlecheshirecatLegoFanTexasDougout
  • PhoneboothPhonebooth USMember Posts: 1,430
    I won't jump in here with my usual Negative-Nelly attitude, but if another "Lego-banned-me-for-bypassing-their-purchase-limitations-woe-is-me" thread emerges, I'm going to quit Lego and take up cross-stitching.
    FollowsCloselyLegoFanTexasCoolsplash
  • rocaorocao Administrator Posts: 4,290
    edited August 2013

    Hmm, you completely lost me here. I consider personal accountability and ethics to be one and the same. Just two sides of the same coin.

    What did you mean then?

    By personal accountability, I meant taking responsibility for one's actions. And it was in response to this:

    However, the demand from "real fans" far exceeds the 6 extra people who might have gotten a copy. At that point, blame completely transfers from me to TLG.

    With your latest post, I think we are in agreement about this:

    I do not believe that I can justify an action solely by saying, "well, if I don't do it, someone else will". My children say that nonsense, my reply is always, "if everyone else was jumping off a cliff, would you do the same?"

    Otherwise, the same logic could be used for crazy things... "well, if I don't rob that bank, someone else will do it first, so I might as well".

    But the reason I mentioned it was because you originally wrote this when you said the blame completely transfers to TLG:

    If I had not purchased my 6 copies, then it is quite possible those 6 copies would go to people who want to build the set.

    Or they could have gone to other resellers, we just don't know.

  • charlatan13charlatan13 Member Posts: 118
    Being relatively new to this board I think a person's fondness for TLG sometimes obscures what everyone knows and that Lego is in the business of making money.

    In the short span since the release of #41999 many posters came up with excellent ideas about how to provide opportunities so that the greatest number of buyers would have a chance to purchase a limited edition model if they wished to do so.

    I liked many of the suggestions and I wanted to believe that Lego might have used such reasoning in their selling process. In the end, it sounds as if Lego sold all the models quickly and garnered some attention for a specific product line. I would think those two accomplishments are considered a success to them.

    Looking back, it seems like some of the euphoria about #41999 spilled over into other threads (instead of being contained in one that could be ignored for whatever reasons) and that rubbed people the wrong way.
  • YellowcastleYellowcastle Northern VirginiaAdministrator, Moderator Posts: 5,208
    Legoboy said:

    I hope there are are hard feelings.

    Yeah. Wait, what? ;o)

    rocaoLegoFanTexasFurrysaurusDougoutkhmellymel
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    ^ You know what I mean. Damn phone! Again!

    He is fully aware I'm sure that my involvement wasn't a personal one. We have spoken many times behind closed doors and chat open and freely. I don't believe there is any beef between he and I. I don't want to see him leave the forum. Like I said previously, I think adds a great deal of knowledge and humour to the boards - some I agree with, some I don't. In this instance I don't but that doesn't mean we can't continue to have reasonable debates. ;o)
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    Y'know, the mere title of the thread "Why so much anger towards resellers? an honest question" pretty much paints resellers in a negative light to begin with, likely causing them to get on the defensive, which is never good for a healthy discussion, no matter how "honest" the intent may be. Perhaps a more neutral title like "An honest discussion on the pros and cons of reselling" would be good. Of course, I say this 700 comments in, but what the heck.
    FurrysaurusLegoboykhmellymel
  • doriansdaddoriansdad CTCMember Posts: 1,337

    Being relatively new to this board I think a person's fondness for TLG sometimes obscures what everyone knows and that Lego is in the business of making money.

    I agree that it is a problem that some on this board turn a blind eye to TLG's business practices but will not do the same for resellers. I have not seen any discussion about why TLG cancelled the presale for 41999 or why they did not enforce limits.

    Quite ridiculous also IMO that some would enter an aftermarket price discussion thread and become offended. For alot of folks (myself included) the buying and selling of this product is more fun than building it. I don't get offended when someone posts about how they opened their crawler and proceeded to mod it so please don't be offended when I post about selling a sealed 41999 in a designated aftermarket thread.

    Now if I enter your building thread and then proceed to tell you what a lowlife you are for breaking the seals on a nice box then by all means kick my butt. Until that happens then keep your thoughts to yourself and p*ss off out of the reselling threads.

    gmpirateLegoFanTexasvitreolumcardgeniuspharmjod
  • PaperballparkPaperballpark Near ManchesterMember Posts: 4,080
    edited August 2013
    ^ I once bought an EOL set (MMV since you ask) cheap from a reseller (because the box was a bit bashed in), just because I wanted to build it. Does that offend you? ;)
    LegoFanTexasFurrysaurusjasor
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    No and yes.
    LegoFanTexasDougoutjasor
  • Pitfall69Pitfall69 0 miles to Legoboy's houseMember Posts: 11,444
    I must warn everyone. If you plan on defending @LegoFanTexas, prepare to be called one of his "cronies" ;)
    CapnRex101LegoFanTexaspharmjodtiminchicagoYellowcastlekhmellymeljasor
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