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Rumours about Star Wars UCS models

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Comments

  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,831
    ^ I don't know mate, this year was a lazy one.
  • AanchirAanchir United StatesMember Posts: 2,922
    Personally, I find that the new X-Wing easily surpasses the old one, and I say that as an owner of the old one. As some of you mentioned, its S-foil mechanism was not ideal, it used hideous STAMPS instead of greebles for the front of the wings, the rear lacked its distinctive hexagonal shape, the fuselage was bumpy, the proportions of the engines were less refined, the air intakes lacked their T-shaped braces, etc.

    The new one may not improve as much on the old one as you'd expect after twelve years, but it DEFINITELY improved, and in my opinion the improvements outweigh any ways the new one suffers compared to the old one.

    Overall, I love it when TLG revisits ideas, especially when it's been several years since the last time they visited that idea. I think they're on a healthy re-release cycle with minifigure-scale Star Wars sets (most vehicles nowadays go five years between different releases, unlike back in the day when a set would be re-released every two years with minimal changes).

    Now, with exclusive sets? I obviously feel like a re-release or even an "updated re-release" of a set like the Café Corner would be a bit pointless, as that would take away time and resources that could be used for a brand-new building. There are no concrete limits on what can be done as a modular building. That's not the case with Star Wars sets, though, because the LEGO Group lacks creative control of the franchise. They are limited to choosing between iconic vehicles from the franchise, and while there are very many of those, the deeper you go into the list, the lower the nostalgia and demand are for those vehicles. As I said, I'm waiting for podracers, but I might be waiting a very long time even without re-releases, just because Episode I doesn't excite a lot of people the same way as it excites me. In the meantime, I think there's room for a re-imagining of a previously released vehicle every now and then. And after twelve years, the X-Wing, with its awful STAMPs, awkward color blocking, and other undesirable traits, was a prime candidate.
    dougtsmdellemanFollowsCloselyDiggydoesHarryPotterLover
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    Legoboy said:

    ^ I don't know mate, this year was a lazy one.

    This year comes in a strong 2nd for worst year. They get half credit on the X-wing and another half credit for the EV because of how stellar it is even though its not UCS.

    @Aanchir I confess to being a lover of PT also =X And hoping for a UCS Pod Racer as I've seen MOC pics of before. Same goes for an ultimate Venator or Republic Gunship.

    But I do know what you mean about the source material being a limiter of options. And the rehashing is fine or even desperately needed for some SW sets in System-scale. But firmly draw a line in the sand for the UCS line as I see it being beyond reproach, just like the other Exclusives. But that starship has sailed with the new X-wing breaking precedent, so I can only lament the door is open for further rehashing of the line. Can you imagine the collective silent screams across the universe if the Millenium Falcon gets a UCS rehash with Ep. VII?

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ If UCS MF gets a revamp in a few years, I assure you I'll be first in line to buy one.

    TLG should take that into account when making such decisions, I suspect for every slightly upset collector, there will be 10 customers ready to buy.

    Of course that's just my opinion and I could be wrong. :)
    mdellemanFollowsCloselymaniac
  • mdellemanmdelleman Vancouver CanadaMember Posts: 274


    TLG should take that into account when making such decisions, I suspect for every slightly upset collector, there will be 10 customers ready to buy.

    At the very LEAST 10. I could never justify spending the money to get the current UCS Falcon. I know so many like myself that would line up if LEGO was to do another!
  • BulkheadXBulkheadX Member Posts: 74
    I tend to agree... I didn't start collecting in time to get the MF much less the original X. I rather like the new one over the pics I have seen of the old one even if it is a 'retread' and would also be in line to buy a new MF if they did that (even though I don't think they should (at least for awhile)). here's hoping they decide to throw out a 6k piece ATAT so I don't have to brinklink it ;D lol
    FollowsClosely
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002

    ^ If UCS MF gets a revamp in a few years, I assure you I'll be first in line to buy one.

    TLG should take that into account when making such decisions, I suspect for every slightly upset collector, there will be 10 customers ready to buy.

    Of course that's just my opinion and I could be wrong. :)

    I'd have to wait and see this hypothetical Falcon retread, but given how poor the new X-Wing was coupled with the likelihood that they'd likely try to keep an updated Falcon at or under a $399 price point... I'd probably pass on it.

    For what it's worth, I think the rehash of the X-Wing is inferior on purpose - so TLG can offer a large-scale X-Wing to newer collectors while still allowing owners of the original to possess the 'ultimate' X-Wing.
  • edgarallanpoe1422edgarallanpoe1422 AustraliaMember Posts: 131
    Given that most of the main actors are said to be returning for Ep. VII, we can be pretty sure that the Falcon will feature and that, by extension, there will be a Lego MF tie-in. My biggest fear is that they'll just release yet another mid-large scale Falcon a la #7965, or they'll simply extend the life of #7965 with new Ep. VII branding.

    But I sincerely hope they see the potential to improve on the #10179 UCS Falcon, perhaps with a full interior being the drawcard. Or, at the very least, I would hope they would simply re-release it. Anything even, say, 20% smaller would just feel naggingly inferior to the #10179 and sap any enthusiasm for the product.

    But can you imagine the potential of a new true minifig-scale UCS falcon with a full interior as per the film schematics?
  • y2joshy2josh Member Posts: 2,002
    ^I can imagine that, and I'd be the first one in line if that's what they did... but I think just by virtue of the rising cost of LEGO in general (particularly the Star Wars license), that this is wholly unrealistic.

    I don't see any way possible they could improve upon the original UCS Falcon without pricing it well out of reach for the majority of consumers... and to do a full interior at the same scale would likely require something to the effect of a $900 model at this point (if not more, due to the insanely complex skeleton that thing would need for stability).

    I don't doubt that they'll rehash a UCS-style Falcon at some point down the road... but I'll be very surprised if it's anywhere near as nice as the original.
  • edgarallanpoe1422edgarallanpoe1422 AustraliaMember Posts: 131
    ^I would hope in that case if costs were prohibitive they'd be aware that there would be a certain nagging dissatisfaction about an inferior UCS falcon and to keep costs down they'd simply re-release the old one. Surely lego can't fail to appreciate that there's a potential flood of consumers who'd leap at the chance to secure a re-released #10179 who otherwise can't justify the cost of an item from the original run.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    edited October 2013
    an exact re-release of 10179 (which is never going to happen BTW), would still be priced in the $700+ range by today's pricing standards. not happening for so many reasons. no, if we ever get another "ultimate" falcon, it's going to pale in comparison. We would be lucky to get 3000 pieces for $400

    In case no one has noticed, the largest annual LEGO sets have been getting progressively getting smaller over the past several years, even while the prices have been rising. It seems to me that 2007/2008 was the high water mark for piece counts in general and piece count/price ratio on the large exclusive lineup. since then, piece counts keep shrinking and prices keep going up. Look no further than TM to TB to SOH or even IS to BW to XW to BW
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited October 2013

    ^ I'd love a non-branded modern train, that might be considered a rehash of the old BNSF or Maersk Trains, but a nice old-school GE diesel-electric would be nice.

    Branding for trains is relatively affordable, because the major railroads have good agreements with the manufacturers, particularly of model railroads. In other words, the road names generally like having their brand out there, and don't charge an arm and a leg to manufacturers to let it happen, nor restrict their usage to any one company for exclusivity.

    That said, I think either would do fine. The HE is a great train, without branding, though I honestly think it'd sell better if it was branded as a true TGV. Even though we're due for another great steam train, I would love to see one of the new GE Evolution engines be Legoized - love those colors....

    image

    Sorry, a bit off topic I just realized. Imagine Darth Vader in the cab.
    Farmer_John
  • CaptAPJTCaptAPJT Member Posts: 223
    I have to confess that this year was a fairly good UCS year for me personally, I got an AT-ST, Grevious and 10240 :-p

    Also I think we've discussed/debated; re-releases, re-imaginations and re-hashes to death. Maybe we'll see more in the future, maybe we won't, arguably it could depend on the success of 10240.

    As long as it's Star Wars UCS (let's not debate the validity of this term, you know what I mean) then TLG has pretty much got my money already. Obviously I have a wish list including some existing models from my dark ages, but including a healthy amount of OT and PT ships, vehicles and characters which may be deserving. Classic examples include Slave 1, a 3PO to go with R2, Venator Star Destroyer etc etc.
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    ^ Will you be happy with one of the three?
  • CaptAPJTCaptAPJT Member Posts: 223

    ^ Will you be happy with one of the three?

    One of the three examples I listed? Obviously
  • princedravenprincedraven Essex, UKMember Posts: 3,768
    I'm quietly confident you will be happy then.
  • luckyrussluckyruss UKMember Posts: 872
    ^ Is your avatar a give away?
  • Renegade007cjhRenegade007cjh Essex, UKMember Posts: 688
    @princedraven is this what we talked about the other week, or do you have new info?
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Slave 1, of course... :)

    Just look at the aftermarket price of the last Slave 1, and there have been 3 total and they have done well, for adult fans, clearly there is some demand for it, so long as it is done right and not done like Obi-Wan's Jedi Starfighter (too large of a scale for too small a part count for UCS).

    Make it $299 and do it right and you'll sell plenty of them.
  • Farmer_JohnFarmer_John USA - 4,035 Miles from 62 West Wallaby St., Wigan, Lancashire, UKMember Posts: 2,404

    Make it $299 and do it right and you'll sell plenty of them.

    Only if they reinstate the 10% off coupons (at least that's what my wallet is telling me).

  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFWMember Posts: 6,978
    Putting Jango in a set that wasn't a Slave 1 also points to a UCS version on the horizon.
    FollowsClosely
  • DougoutDougout Member Posts: 888
    So they still have the Slave 1, A-wing, Tie-Bomber, C3PO, Venator and AT-AT to make into a UCS. I don't think the Republic Dropship or the Sandcrawler will be done, those have already been made into big sets.
  • rancorbaitrancorbait Manitoba CanadaMember Posts: 1,850
    Don't forget about the Republic Gunship, AT-TE, and Banking Clan frigate. :-)
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    You are all forgetting the most UCS of them all...

    Lucrehulk-class battleship

    This set could be done very ultimate...

    1m x 1m in size, with a play set inside.

    On the right side the top would come off and you'd have the hangar deck, the power generator that Anakin blew up with the torpedo, etc.

    On the left side the top would come off and you'd have the droid landing craft loading dock, the place where Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon stowed away to get to the surface.

    In the center, the ball would open up and show the command bridge and the room where the gas was used.

    Huge, expensive, but ultimate indeed! :)

    Anyone want to guess the part count/cost to do something like that at that size?
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,270
    1m x 1m done right would probably be 10-12k parts.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    I wonder what the market for a 10K part set like that would be for $1,299?

    After all, if CC, UCS ISD, UCS Falcon, Taj Mahal, Eiffel Tower, etc. all sell for more than that new in box, why couldn't this?

    Probably not enough volume, but I'd probably buy one. :)
  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    edited October 2013
    ^If they didn't go crazy on new elements or colours, manufacturing wouldn't really cost anything extra over any other set, so a limited run is possible. The biggest expense is the staff time in designing it, and been that it would be so big and complex it would take a lot of man hours.

    Wonder how many they would need to sell to at least break even?
  • BanditBandit Member Posts: 890

    I wonder what the market for a 10K part set like that would be for $1,299?

    After all, if CC, UCS ISD, UCS Falcon, Taj Mahal, Eiffel Tower, etc. all sell for more than that new in box, why couldn't this?

    Probably not enough volume, but I'd probably buy one. :)

    For that ship? Zero. For a gigantic AT-AT? Now you have something...
    dougtsBulkheadXJohnnyfinlandia
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    Basta said:

    ^If they didn't go crazy on new elements or colours, manufacturing wouldn't really cost anything extra over any other set, so a limited run is possible. The biggest expense is the staff time in designing it, and been that it would be so big and complex it would take a lot of man hours.

    Wonder how many they would need to sell to at least break even?

    Make it a limited edition of just 20,000 numbered sets, put it in a nice box, and charge $1,999 for it.

    You know what? Even at that crazy price I think you'd sell every one of them.

    -------------

    Consider that it would be a Halo product, not really mean to make money, more like the GI Joe Flagg Carrier from the 80s (anyone remember that one?).

    I highly doubt Hasbro expected to sell many of them, but just making it brought attention and image to the brand.

    http://www.yojoe.com/vehicles/85/ussflagg/

    According to that, it was $89 back in 1985, what a deal! :)
  • Steve_J_OMSteve_J_OM Cork, IrelandMember Posts: 961
    If it is indeed the Slave I, what is the likely scale? Minifig scale like the IS and Falcon, or would the dimensions be off for that?
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    A set at $1,999 so well over £1,000 here in the UK. Hmmmmmm it would be interesting to see and be a bold move. Some would definitely sell but 20,000 of them quickly I'm not so sure. There is probably someone every day dropping that much on a retired set but I doubt there are hundreds doing it even worldwide. If released I think I'll take a punt and wait for a sale ;-)
  • kyrotekkyrotek Southampton, UKMember Posts: 212
    ^^^ I know a collector who had 3 USS Flagg at one point, 2 of which were boxed...

    I like to see a lower price point UCS which was more accessible to everyday collectors. Say, in the $100/£70 range from release which lots of people could enjoy and not have to wait for sale days.
  • binaryeyebinaryeye USMember Posts: 1,734

    Consider that it would be a Halo product, not really mean to make money, more like the GI Joe Flagg Carrier from the 80s (anyone remember that one?).

    I highly doubt Hasbro expected to sell many of them, but just making it brought attention and image to the brand.

    The USS Flagg probably isn't the best comparison. In today's money, it cost just under $200. As a large Christmas gift, it was definitely attainable for many kids.

    A $2000 LEGO set today would be like a $900 LEGO set in 1985. The closest comparison I can think of is the Commodore 64, which was about $600 at that time, but with accessories and software might have come close to $900.
    Wow, what a time sink. It looks like I was most into G.I. Joe from 84-87.

  • BastaBasta Australia Member Posts: 1,259
    @SirKevbags I agree, a $2000 set no mater how good, would have trouble selling any where near 20,000 units in even 2, 3 or 5 years. Look at the #41999 Crawler, it took what 4 or five days to go sold out, I'd hate to think how many people bought 2, one for resale. If every one only bought 1, you could probably still buy them now IMO, and it only cost $220. With a $2000 set very few people will buy more than one, even large resellers. I'm think no more then 5000, but I wouldn't be surprised if they had trouble selling 1-2 thousand.

    What would work well is to make a awesome 10-12 thousand peice "limited Edition" set, charge $990, limited to 5 or 10 thousand and take pre orders say 6-12 months out with a payment plan, this would sell.
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    An UCS of 10-12 thousand peice "limited Edition" set, charge $990, limited to 5? Not only it would sell, I'd buy all 5 if I could. :))
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    You should keep in mind that you shouldn't use your own personal situation when considering how many $2,000 sets TLG could sell.

    While that is many people's entire monthly income, pre-tax... other people spend that on a single car/boat payment each month.

    And yes, dozens of $2,000 sets are sold each month world-wide, but those are very expensive collectibles, a 12K official set at the same price should move higher volumes, being a better deal. Maybe 200-400 a month?

    -----------

    In any case, selling them out in 2 days isn't the goal, that isn't much of a Halo product if they are gone in a flash. Having them sell out over 2 years would be a better goal, people would be impressed, think it was cool, then suddenly see SSD and DS as bargains! :)

    That is actually a tried and true retail system. Intel sells a desktop CPU for $999. They sell a few of them, but don't really expect to move huge volumes. Instead the product is there to make the $300 CPU seem like a "deal" since it is 85% of the performance for 33% of the price.

    -----------

    Of course the next challenge is what size box would you need for a 12K part set! :)
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,270
    ^ probably a box that would fit nicely in those huge a$$ boxes that YoYo and TRU send out a single battle pack set in.
    FollowsClosely
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    Probably the size of DS but more of a cube. Still, if they did it, I think they'd price it lower than what you would get if you compare with current sets, at least the first time it happens.
  • adello25adello25 U.S.A.Member Posts: 361
    I would absolutely love a 10-12k piece set. Even with the enormous price tag, it would most likely be a day 1 buy for me. That's what being an AFOL is about. A set of that size would have tremendous detail and would be an epic set. But I do understand the business case to NOT making sets of that size/price so IMO there is very little chance we see a set of that size.
    FollowsClosely
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    adello25 said:

    But I do understand the business case to NOT making sets of that size/price so IMO there is very little chance we see a set of that size.

    And here is the business case behind making it... :)

    http://www.brandingstrategyinsider.com/2009/09/building-a-brand-halo-effect.html

    This is the 2013 Dodge Viper. I highly doubt that Dodge thinks they'll make huge profits or run the company on this car. But it does get attention, trade press, and mindshare.

    After all, if that car is that amazing and cool, then their other products must be worth a look. As crazy as it sounds, it works.

    Would a $999 or $1,999 LEGO set get press? Yes, it would. It would turn heads and get attention from people who aren't paying attention. They might or might not become LEGO customers, but they also might see it, say to themselves, "wow, LEGO isn't just for kids anymore", and take a look at other things like Modular buildings or Creator...
    FollowsClosely
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,769
    Are they having problems getting attention?

    I prefer they put effort into models like the life size X-wing, something really spectacular that I cannot buy rather than something better than anything I have but not that spectacular that I probably wouldn't buy.
  • jasorjasor United StatesMember Posts: 839
    I hope that X-wing got plenty of good looks, since they arent going to be at NYCC 2013 (another forum member stated because they blew that budget on the oversized X-wing).
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    I don't think that X-Wing got too much attention outside of the fanbase really.

    A large model that can be bought and seen in person by pretty much everyone, even if only that big box, and the price tag would get much more attention than that.
  • SirKevbagsSirKevbags Fairy Land Member Posts: 4,030
    Can we look at 10179 as a benchmark? How long did it take to move the first 10,000 of them? I can see the marketing theory but is it a card they need to play right now? I don't think so. For the record despite my earlier mention of a sale I would buy it quickly. It is fun to speculate but I think we are in the land of make believe with a set this size. Prove me wrong TLG!
  • vitreolumvitreolum RomaniaMember Posts: 1,406
    edited October 2013
    I don't think 10179 is something to use as a benchmark since there are a lot more afols, collectors and investors out there now. Is it a card they need to play right now? No idea, but it would be damn awesome if they did.
    FollowsClosely
  • TheLoneTensorTheLoneTensor MericaMember Posts: 3,950
    edited October 2013
    vitreolum said:

    I don't think that X-Wing got too much attention outside of the fanbase really.

    A large model that can be bought and seen in person by pretty much everyone, even if only that big box, and the price tag would get much more attention than that.

    Very true, I wonder how many not-already-fans even knew about that thing. Plus, I had forgotten about it, until these recent posts.

    Can we look at 10179 as a benchmark? How long did it take to move the first 10,000 of them? I can see the marketing theory but is it a card they need to play right now? I don't think so. For the record despite my earlier mention of a sale I would buy it quickly. It is fun to speculate but I think we are in the land of make believe with a set this size. Prove me wrong TLG!

    I think that might actually be the proof though. Although it took a while to move them originally, looking at it now, today, there is serious demand for every single one of the original 10k of them. That tells me that there is a market for another such set. What that set could be? Dunno. I would have said X-Wing prior to the recent UCS one.

    Unfortunately I think any macro $1k+ "limited edition" set would be snapped up by speculators and we'd have another #41999 situation all over again. Even so, I think it's a good idea.
  • murphquakemurphquake Member Posts: 651
    @vitreolum most people in NYC were aware of the X-Wing... but it had a huge buy-in as a SW -AND- LEGO event and was heavily publicized. I was there all 3 days and it was a mob scene =-D
  • Wil348Wil348 Member Posts: 240
    I have never bought a UCS set before (unless you count the Death Star), but if this Slave 1 rumour is true and it's proper minifigure scale, it might just be my first. That also depends on the price too.
  • adello25adello25 U.S.A.Member Posts: 361

    adello25 said:

    But I do understand the business case to NOT making sets of that size/price so IMO there is very little chance we see a set of that size.

    And here is the business case behind making it... :)

    http://www.brandingstrategyinsider.com/2009/09/building-a-brand-halo-effect.html

    This is the 2013 Dodge Viper. I highly doubt that Dodge thinks they'll make huge profits or run the company on this car. But it does get attention, trade press, and mindshare.

    After all, if that car is that amazing and cool, then their other products must be worth a look. As crazy as it sounds, it works.

    Would a $999 or $1,999 LEGO set get press? Yes, it would. It would turn heads and get attention from people who aren't paying attention. They might or might not become LEGO customers, but they also might see it, say to themselves, "wow, LEGO isn't just for kids anymore", and take a look at other things like Modular buildings or Creator...
    Look, I also understand the case TO make the set, but I do think the case is stronger to not make it, then to make it.

    And I was only able to do a little quick research as I am at work and need to be doing other things (maybe? lol) but the previous Dodge Viper (2010) had an msrp of around $83,000. The expected msrp of the 2013 Dodge Viper is $85-95,000. So taking the high range, that is a $12,000 difference. Which equates to a 14% increase in msrp from the 2010 to the 2013 model.

    If we take #10179 msrp of $500 and multiply that by the same 14% increase we get a msrp of $570. A Lego set of $999 would be DOUBLE the most the most expensive ever (correct me if I am wrong about #10179 being the highest msrp for a Lego set) and a $1,999 set would be QUADRUPLE that msrp. My point being that comparing the Viper to Lego isn't a fair comparison because this years Viper is priced accordingly to previous Vipers. Its not as if Dodge came out with a Viper that is doule or more the price of previous versions.

    There will be many more AFOL's priced out of a $1,999 Lego set than there will be "car enthusiasts" or "car collectors" priced out of a $95,000 Viper
  • graphitegraphite USMember Posts: 3,270
    ^ The price of the viper compared to older vipers wasn't his point. The point is that the Viper itself is more than twice the cost of the average Dodge offering (ie other models Dart, Neon, Avenger or whatever other junk they make these days). The Viper draws people in to Dodge itself. That is what a huge awesome LEGO set would do.

    Most LEGO stores have display pieces in the window. The Mall of America has a particularly large glass display. If there was some monster set on display there it might draw people in more than a small set since most people that don't already appreciate LEGO would normally just go "ah, the LEGO store. That is toys for kids" and walk on. But after seeing something truly impressive they might come in and look and might cause them to rethink their opinion or find something they'd like for themselves or as a gift for someone else.
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