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How do you deal with arsey ebayers?

monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
edited September 2012 in Buying & Selling Topics
I recently sold an item of Lego on ebay and the buyer paid with an "echeque" which finally cleared last night. I specified Paypal only on the payment and payment is to be completed with 4 days of buying on the listing.

Anyway, I contacted the buyer just to let him know (politely) I will post the item when the echeque has cleared. He was a little arsey, blaming some Paypal cock up for money owed back to him - am I right in thinking then that he doesn't have a debit card tied to his ebay account to pull payments from? He was accepting that I would wait to post until clearance, but not that happy that I wouldn't just post it in trust.

Last night comes, it clears and I send him some feedback to tell him his payment cleared and I will post his item tomorrow (today). Today I have an arsey email off him saying

"Hi I know it has it cleared yesterday and not happy with the feedback left either just remember i still got to leave feedback cheers"


I almost want to tell him to pee-off, refund him and cancel the transaction. I am convinced he's going to leave me some bad feedback or claim it didn't arrive, or claim it was incomplete.

To top it all, his user name is "igotmoneyiwillbuyit" - quite a misnomer in this instance.

I suppose he's huffed that my feedback may highlight to some that instant payment isn't his preferred option.

Comments

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    What feedback did you leave him?

    He cannot claim it didn't arrive if you use recorded delivery.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    That's a good reason never to leave feedback before the packet has been received, I guess?
    Sometimes you just have strange people on eBay or bricklink... Don't let it vorher you.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    It means that his paypal account has insufficient funds in it and the amount has to be deducted from a bank account. From the sound of it, he expected a refund from something else to have been deposited back in his account but it wasn't in time. Now, he should have confirmed his account balance before bidding but I've been in a similar experience where my bank failed to transfer funds in the 3-5 days they say they will (took them 7) so it's entirely possible that he had no way of realizing a problem would occur.

    Since you only quoted one actual response but not the others nor your feedback, it's impossible to determine which, if either, of you is being an ass. Given only your post here I'd say you were the ass but that would be made without all available data so for now I'll withhold a conclusion.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    echeques are devil spawn, as are real cheques, a more antiquated and out of date system for payment you couldn't wish for.

    You were absolutely right not to post on trust to someone you don't know, and he was in the wrong to pay by echeque, his mistake not yours.

    Don't worry about it and move on, I wouldn't cancel the transaction or anything like that.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    CCC: I literally said "Payment received, your item is wrapped and ready to post tomorrow, thanks!"
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    That feedback wouldn't bother me as a buyer.

    Send the item off recorded so he knows he cannot claim for lost in post and leave it at that. If he leaves neg feedback, then block him from bidding again.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    mressin: I know what you mean. I have been bricklinking a lot lately and bought quite a bit from a certain dutch vendor (can't remember is name). He had a lot of stuff I needed at a great price, ideal. The frosty/hostile dialogue on his website would put a lot of people off I would think. The transaction was great and everything was there that I ordered, it just wasn't a very welcoming bricklink shopfront page.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    prof: When my paypal balance is low it instantly retrieves the difference from my bank account for any payment made over my paypal balance, so how do these echeques work if someone doesn't have a similar arrangement to me and as a result that requires 7 working days
  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 626
    ^^ I wouldnt worry about it either, some people you can bend over backwards for and it's still not good enough! If they do leave you negative feedback you can always put a "comment" underneath with a simple explanation.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    Am I right in assuming someone doing an echeque doesn't have a current account tied to their paypal account for instant transfers, or that Paypal is waiting for either a refund to be deposited to the balance or for someone to manually add balance in?
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    You are wrong in that assumption. An e-check means that Paypal is authorized to draw from a bank account in the event that there are insufficient funds in the Paypal account to cover the transaction. There is a back-up but it's a bank account, not a credit/debit card. Instant payments are still possible provided the person has transferred funds from that bank account into their Paypal account beforehand.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    I use a similar set-up. I don't use my Paypal that often for payments (just receipt of funds) so I don't keep money in it beyond a small amount. Additionally the bank account that is tied to my Paypal account is one which exists solely for the purpose of Paypal. That way if someone hacked into Paypal, they wouldn't find much. Additionally, if they did and got the bank account information tied to the account, they'd find an account that doesn't have much in it. If I ever intend to make a large payment with Paypal, I transfer funds to that bank account and then to Paypal (if at all since Paypal will automatically withdraw from it). It's an extra level of protection that hasn't caused any serious problems (the aforementioned instance where the funds took 7 days instead of 3-5 to transfer being the only exception).
  • morezonemorezone Member Posts: 207
    e-cheques will take 7 or so working days. They say 3-5 but it is never the case. There is absolutely no reason why it should take so long. The reason it does is so that Pay Pal can hold the funds for a few days. X million transaction per day, multiplied by x amount which are e-cheques gives then a healthy income from interest.

    What makes it worst is that sometimes people will chase a payment as they are quoted 3-5 days by Pay Pal. It's really annoying that they don't quote the actual time of 7-10 days.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    In which case the blame still does not rest upon the buyer but upon Paypal. For the record, it is 3-5 business days and that one example I cited of 7 days was 7 business days. Should have clarified.
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    I can't help you with your PayPal question, but I just wanted to say that as an American I got a real kick out of the word "arsey".
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    ^ I beg to differ. In other threads, it has been (correctly) pointed out that as far as the buyer is concerned, the seller is responsible for delivery, including screw-ups from the delivery company.
    I feel that it's only fair that as far as the seller is concerned, the buyer is responsible for payment, including screw-ups from the service provider.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    I agree that the buyer should have confirmed that their refund had been delayed and hence the funds were not in their account. However, to avoid such problems as delays via Paypal, a seller should consider granting sufficient time to allow for such contingencies. I recall a seller once offering a book I'd been searching for and asking only for payment via money order with receipt within 5 days. Well, considering that by the time I found out I won the book and headed out for the money order, one day was gone. Normally I expect a letter to arrive in 3 days so 4 was enough but when I got an email on the fourth day asking about payment, I was worried. It arrived on that fifth day but as I suggested to the seller they should consider taking into account delays in mail during the holidays and extending their time limit (they agreed that they might have to do so given the possibilities of delays, especially from foreign buyers). There's always a possibility that something out of the control of someone can have an impact on the process of a purchase. However, a slight delay in payment doesn't put the seller out of anything like a damaged package does to a buyer. In no way would I consider calling someone a name because of their bank's delay (unless of course they ran the bank).
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    prof: I think you misunderstand why I raised this thread. I assume the seller expected some feedback like "wonderful ebayer" etc etc, instead he got "Payment received, your item is wrapped and ready to post tomorrow, thanks!". What is offensive about that?

    At no point have I been short with him about waiting so long for payment, I just stated clearly that he would have to wait for cleared funds before I posted and I said I was prepared to wait or give him the chance to cancel the transaction if he was unwilling to wait (very reasonable of me as a seller I think). I then waited until payment was received/cleared. As soon as I have actually received fund I left said feedback and he's saying he's not pleased with the feedback and gives me a thinly veiled threat about leaving me poor feedback, even if he does receive his item within 2 working days of payment completion.

    My point is that I have done everything I have been obliged to do as a good seller and he's threatening poor feedback as he does not like mine (even though I can see no need for him to take offence).
  • SilentModeSilentMode UKMember Posts: 553
    I just don't do business with those people. If they get the urge to try and talk down to me for any reason, the deal is off (or I'll refuse any dealings with them in future).
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    I just don't do business with those people. If they get the urge to try and talk down to me for any reason, the deal is off (or I'll refuse any dealings with them in future).

    Yes, more than once I've regretted doing business with complainers.

    Once someone wants to go back and forth, it is usually better to just not sell the item.

    Most times that I have, I've regretted it.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409

    Am I right in assuming someone doing an echeque doesn't have a current account tied to their paypal account for instant transfers, or that Paypal is waiting for either a refund to be deposited to the balance or for someone to manually add balance in?

    No, you would be mistaken.

    PayPal will only allow so much to be "instant transferred", it is a risk thing. Beyond that, either a credit card or an echeck is required. PayPal doesn't want to be left on the hook if the money isn't there.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,002

    I recently sold an item of Lego on ebay and the buyer paid with an "echeque" which finally cleared last night. I specified Paypal only on the payment and payment is to be completed with 4 days of buying on the listing.

    Anyway, I contacted the buyer just to let him know (politely) I will post the item when the echeque has cleared. He was a little arsey, blaming some Paypal cock up for money owed back to him - am I right in thinking then that he doesn't have a debit card tied to his ebay account to pull payments from? He was accepting that I would wait to post until clearance, but not that happy that I wouldn't just post it in trust.

    Last night comes, it clears and I send him some feedback to tell him his payment cleared and I will post his item tomorrow (today). Today I have an arsey email off him saying

    "Hi I know it has it cleared yesterday and not happy with the feedback left either just remember i still got to leave feedback cheers"


    I almost want to tell him to pee-off, refund him and cancel the transaction. I am convinced he's going to leave me some bad feedback or claim it didn't arrive, or claim it was incomplete.

    To top it all, his user name is "igotmoneyiwillbuyit" - quite a misnomer in this instance.

    I suppose he's huffed that my feedback may highlight to some that instant payment isn't his preferred option.

    Extortion of the eBay feedback system is a violation of eBay rules I believe (ie threatening to leave neg feedback not because of the auction or a legit issue but because of the feedback left)

    The minute he tries to imply extortion of feedback I'd report his silly 'arse' to eBay and block him from bidding/buyer from any further listing to be honest.. it is not your fault if paypal e-checks take their time IMO. and like you said the feedback does not really say anything negative..
    You can block bidders/buyers on eBay and this guy is a good example of why.

  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    The thing is, if OP cancels transaction and gives refund based on that comment alone, that gives buyer justifiable reason to leave negative feedback
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    It was sent yesterday by recorded delivery, I will let you know whether he leaves feedback, good or bad.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    I find the "or best offer" option with buy it now attracts a few jokers. I am selling a 6868 Hulk at the moment and I have some one wanting to pay me very low, for me to put in free postage (postage alone will cost £2.70 on this item due to it's thickness, even though it weighs almost nowt and send me in a monster fighters poly to make up some of the difference "to sell on".
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    Im going to be different to most here and say that to be honest the feedback left does come across as more than a bit petty. What you left is a message not feedback, imo a shitty thing to do. He paid quickly, you waited for it to clear, not sure theres any fault here at all, yet you left what I assume is 'clever' feedback, why?
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    ^ because the buyer paid by echeck and wanted the item sent before the money had cleared and got arsey when this unreasonable request was rightly refused.
  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    Cheshirecat: Perhaps some people are just highly strung. I wouldn't consider what I wrote as petty, but you (and the buyer)would. Some people analyse things more than I do and look for hidden meanings that aren't there maybe (my wife is like that).
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    edited September 2012
    ^ Fine, so why did you write that rather than, ' Great ebayer, a+++++++'. If you always leave messages rather than 'feedback' then fine and you're right, but if not then I would suggest that by leaving 'clever' feedback you changed the game. By your own comments above, its not the usual ebay feedback.

    ^^ From the OP - "He was a little arsey, blaming some Paypal cock up for money owed back to him" so he's blaming paypal not the seller, not having a go. "He was accepting that I would wait to post until clearance, but not that happy that I wouldn't just post it in trust." so he accepted that MH wouldn't post until it cleared but had hoped to just be trusted. So long as hes accepted waiting until it cleared then I don't see a problem with that - without knowing the value of the item, without knowing his feedback and without knowing how he operates its hard to comment, and without seeing the text of his message its hard to know how firmly he put across his unhappiness. The next thing that happens is the, at least, obtuse feedback is left.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    "Payment received, your item is wrapped and ready to post tomorrow, thanks!"

    I don't see how that statement is obtuse. There is a fact at the start "Payment received". Any seller looking at the buyers feedback will want to know do they pay. This tells them that they do. The next part of the statement is a message that the item will be posted tomorrow. It is correct that this is not feedback in the normal ebay sense, but many people write messages like that in feedback. It is simple to check MHs other feedback left, and nearly all says that the item is on it's way. The last part thanks the buyer for buying.

    I never trust an unknown buyer that payment will come, until I have the money. Whether it is an echeque, or a cheque in the post, or a bank transfer. Until I have the money in my bank account for a cheque or bank transfer, or in PayPal, then I wait. Even if they had 10000 feedback, I'd wait.

    That said, I don't think the buyer is arsey. I would have replied to the initial communication saying thanks for payment, and once he has his problem with paypal sorted and the money has cleared, then I will send the item.
  • atkinsaratkinsar Member Posts: 4,272
    @chesirecat, IMO the correct response for a good buyer would have been to apologise to the seller for the inconvenience of the payment taking so long, regardless of PayPal cockup or not, certainly that's what I'd have done. After all, payment is the responsibility of the buyer, delivering the goods is the responsibility of the seller (regardless of shipping company cock-ups!).
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    edited September 2012
    I agree with @cheshirecat: Feedback is not communication to my trade partner, it is really to his future potential buyers/sellers. What you write or mean does not change that. People will generally understand "Thanks for a smooth deal, LegoManNevada!" as "I can recommend LegoManNevada out of experience."

    For those who disagree, a quick thought experiment: Let's say you sell an item. You receive payment. You send the item. After a week, you get the following feedback: "Box arrived open, item incomplete. Please replace or refund."
    Obviously, feedback is not personal communication, in particular about an unfinished trade.

    Ideally, I try to leave pride and emotions out of feedback. If I get what I want, the trade was conducted as advertised, I didn't have to go to excessive hassle, etc., then my feedback should be unambiguously positive. Feedback should only be negative if there was a clear and objective problem, i.e. refusal to pay, grossly incorrect description of items, etc.

    If that doesn't cut it for you, consider two generally underestimated options: If you really need to push back, mail your partner directly. Also, you can always just leave no feedback. Poisoned positive feedback (e.g. "+: Payment FINALLY arrived." [capitalisation for emphasis]) isn't an option.

    I understand the sentiment if people come across as condescending, impatient, rude, etc. Still, my impression that somebody is not polite (note the italics) is not enough to warrant permanently harming them. But that's what we do if we leave feedback discouraging future trades. Give them the benefit of the doubt. Written communication has abundant opportunities for misunderstandings. Or maybe they're just in a bad mood because they were dumped, have diarrhea, or didn't score the Tesco deal that everyone else got. Maybe they're just socially inept geeks who sit in front of the computer too much and still play with Lego. ;)
  • coachiecoachie South WalesMember Posts: 476
    @monkeyhanger I would just let it pass, I know, as I allow these things eat me up too. I sold a £3 set on bricklink to a new US buyer, and they asked to pay by cheque. I politely refused, but a US cheque arrived in the post last week. I have just sent off the item, as my bank will charge me more than that to cash it.

    Regarding your Hulk postage price predicament, was it international?

    I found this useful post the other day (relevant for UK sellers)

    http://community.ebay.co.uk/topic/International-Trading/Letter-Vs-Packet/1700066876


    @mressin I think that is excellent advice re feedback and I love the the final comment. This would normally be a thread-ender, but I feel obliged to come back on you at that and prove my manliness.

    I have a massive Dong

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/18twi0UoeDFdZ_Jwd49jyNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

    It's at least 12 inches tall when fully erected

    https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_xD-oqmJfsp94_OjXqByCdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink





  • monkeyhangermonkeyhanger Member Posts: 2,995
    Cheshirecat: I do generally leave messages like that. Usually it's something like "fast payment, your item is in the post, thanks!". I couldn't say "fast payment" this time, nor did I highlight the use of echeque (which many, including myself would prefer not to receive, as per my accepted payment options stated by saying something like "payment received, eventually!".

    My style of feedback may differ to some others, but if there is nothing offensive or false then I don't see why the customer got upset or gave a veiled threat of negative feedback regardless of performance at my end. If you think that the initial expectation of sending a parcel before cleared payment and veiled threats for my feedback is acceptable then we'll have to agree to disagree. My feedback is informative and not derogatory in any way which would put anyone off in dealing with them again. Some people might write "A+++ best ebayer in the world ever" for everyone they deal with or they might write
    write "smooth transaction", or one like mine. I personally prefer seeing one like mine, i'd like to know if the bidder is a payer and a quick payer from their feedback etc.
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    @coachie Thanks for the kind words. And your dong is really impressive. Not sure if I should compliment you on the fact that it hasn't seen any use, though. ;)
  • GothamConstructionCoGothamConstructionCo Colchester UKMember Posts: 772
    I'd be more worried that the end of your Dong is on fire :-)
  • cheshirecatcheshirecat Member Posts: 5,332
    @MonkeyHanger - In which case, my earlier comment agrees with you "If you always leave messages rather than 'feedback' then fine and you're right".

    So in answer to your original question, I would reply to them, suggesting that there has been some kind of misunderstanding, that is similar to all the feedback I leave, you can check here. If you've ever worked in retail or any service industry (and selling on ebay is really no different) then you know that sometimes you just have to bend over and take it. Keep the customer as happy as possible until the transaction is complete, and then if you want ban them.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    I've often wondered if I should neg a seller for saying "Excellent buyer A+++" when I have paid within seconds of the auction ending. Yet someone else gets A++++++. What did I do wrong to lose three +s?

    When it comes to buyer feedback, I couldn't really care what a seller writes. So long as there is a positive (it cannot be anything else) and a positive comment, it's fine. You can do that in a few characters. Use the rest however you like. Some say thanks, some leave an extra comment, some a message, and some people advertise their other goods in feedback. Whatever, it doesn't matter, so long as it is not a negative comment.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    ^ This...
  • BalloonistBalloonist Member Posts: 55
    Item Very Well Packed SuperFast Postage Could Not Be More Happier A+ Seller Seller: matthewaisbitt ( 163) 19-Sep-12 11:57
    Feedback looks OK
  • dragonhawkdragonhawk USMember Posts: 633
    A
    ^ That was a real feedback I saw one time. First I thought that was a typing accident. But looking at their feedback history, all of the feedbacks they left were 1 letter like that lol
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561

    A
    ^ That was a real feedback I saw one time. First I thought that was a typing accident. But looking at their feedback history, all of the feedbacks they left were 1 letter like that lol

    They could be lazy or they could be illiterate. Quite frankly, I'd probably bank on the latter being the case.
  • bricknationbricknation Member Posts: 711
    ^ I'd say they're illiterate. It's annoying how often people don't have their surname or even house number missing in their details on eBay. Coincidentally they're mainly women...
  • mressinmressin Lego City... erm LondonMember Posts: 843
    edited September 2012
    @bricknation If women don't give their address on the internet, that's usually not for lack of literacy.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    edited September 2012
    Personally, I see no real difference between writing
    "A"
    and writing
    "A+++++++++ ~~~~~~~~~~ _/-\_ oOoOo Great oOoOo _/-\_ ~~~~~~~~~~"
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    I think both have a flaw in that not everyone in the world may get the reference. Personally, I use a variation on "Good seller/buyer" coupled with a comment on the speed of payment/delivery if it is exceptionally fast. For negative feedback, there is no standard since that's something that involves specific reasons and deliberation.
  • bricknationbricknation Member Posts: 711
    @mressin well the could think that they protect their identity or privacy - but how on earth am supposed to deliver parcels without full address.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 19,559
    ^ Use the address they supply through PayPal.
  • bricknationbricknation Member Posts: 711
    It doesn't work in all cases. If buyers complete the transaction on eBay, the same eBay address shows on PayPal.
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