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Auction Pet Peeves

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  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 630
    Funny comment on a listing made me laugh this week..
    " dont watch my stuff unless you intend to bid"
  • cynthilinacynthilina Member Posts: 188
    A Major pet peve of mine comes from brick link. When I'm looking for a new set and I read the description and they say the mini figs not included, well then its not new its used. Once the box is opened and parts removed it is now used so to anyone who does this please for all that is good stop posting sets as new when they are missing pieces.
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    ^ That drives me nuts. The other day while browsing some sets on my wanted list I ran into at least 5 entries listed as New but when you read the description it is incomplete. How can a set be new yet incomplete? I understand that the parts are new but then it should be listed under parts, not sets.
  • BrickDancerBrickDancer Dunes of TatooineMember Posts: 3,639
    edited April 2012
    ^Actually that's a big difference to certain buyers, who might just want the ship and not the minifigs. But more importantly, my preference is for the pieces to be new and untouched. They're not lying since even though the set is open, all parts are indeed new. Maybe a category for "New - Unsealed" would help? I generally don't mind if the box is open or the bags were opened, so long as the bricks are pristine. So those listings are actually what I would be seeking out for my purposes.
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    ^I think your suggestion of a new category would definitely resolve that issue.
  • OdinduskOdindusk Member Posts: 763
    Funny comment on a listing made me laugh this week..
    " dont watch my stuff unless you intend to bid"
    haha, awesome.

  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    The above is minor... I'm starting to see more and more postings on Bricklink for items listed as "new", yet the description says "only built once by adult as display model".

    For pete's sake, if it has been built, it isn't new!
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    Parted out sets are certainly not "used". They are "new" and are an important distinction to be made. Used means they have been played with or built.
  • cynthilinacynthilina Member Posts: 188
    I think they need to add a few new categories to indicate this. I don't want to order something to find out its not as the categories said it was. Maybe i'm just picky but if its been opened and handled in any way it is no longer new. Imagine a car driving off a car lot. It looses Value just for that, why should this be any different. Not only that but the prices on bricklink seem to be going up and in some cases passing ebay and amazon. How do these stores stay in business? It is cheaper to buy these sets new from Walmart than get the parts offline from what I am seeing.
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    I think eBay has created a minor problem here by restricting LEGO descriptions to only "New" and "Used". On most of eBay's site there is also a "New other (see details)" category which would be very useful for LEGO sellers.

    It seems like inside the LEGO community we have agreed that "New" isn't synonymous with "New-In-Sealed-Box", but that is the definition that eBay is forcing on LEGO sellers.

    Take the case of splitting minifigs from other elements. Within the community most would agree that minifigs taken from a new larger set could still be described as new. On eBay technically these could only be sold as used. Similarly, most in the community would agree that a sealed bag of elements taken from a larger set (perhaps one car out of complete train) could be called new, but on eBay this could technically only be sold as used.

    It would be nice if somehow the community could approach eBay to request the "New other (see details)" category be enabled for LEGO.

    For clarification here are eBay's definitions:

    New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

    Used: An item that has been used previously. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.

    New other (see details): A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections.
  • cynthilinacynthilina Member Posts: 188
    I'm sorry but if pieces are missing then its not new. Removing any parts from a "complete" set changes the count of pieces even the mini figs are counted in this amount I believe. In order to get the mini figs out you need to break the seals and then break into the bags, therefore taking away the new value. My new lego sets always have the mini figs broken up into different bags, this alone means more than one bag needs to be broken. I can see the term Like new with missing mini figs or small ships someone wanted. but to call it new just is not true.
  • LegoFanTexasLegoFanTexas TexasMember Posts: 8,409
    The car driving off the lot doesn't count because new and used have specific legal difinitions for a car.

    A car can be driven for a year as a dealer demo, have 10,000 miles on it, and legally be sold as new.

    Another car could have 5 miles on it, be titled, then offered for sale legally as used only.
  • peterlinddkpeterlinddk DenmarkMember Posts: 170
    My pet peeve is sellers who put an unrealistic price on an item, a price they don't expect to sell the item at, but as though to say "Look what I have", .
    oh yes - I've just recently seen an auction for a collection of Star Wars sets (all built, without boxes) with a starting price of 20.000 danish kroner, (about €2600 or $3600 or £2200). There are blurry images of the UCS Falcon and other expensive sets, but no set list or other info ... And of course no bidders.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473
    Hah, saw this for a Holiday train on eBay:
    New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

    Then the seller goes on to say their kid opened it and only opened one bag... Whahuh?
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473
    I unfortunately have a new one to add. The seller sending the item to the wrong place. This just happened to me for the 2nd time. I won a msib 10129 SnowSpeeder at a decent price ~$775 (compared to the $1000+ auctions out there) but it seems the seller sent it to another address, most likely another buyer whose auction ended at the same time. Last time this happened I just asked for a full refund back and sent the wrong item back at the seller's expense. I will most likely do the same thing this time as who knows what shady things could have happened to it (sealing, resealing, etc).

    Honestly, how hard is it to get your shipping labels correct? If you can't handle shipping a certain number of items out at one time then don't put them all up for auction at the same time. And with such an expense set as well, you would think the seller would be extra careful, I know I would be. *Sigh* So tired of it.
    I would say Watch the seller for the next few weeks.. I swear some people that sell things for a good price use that 'oops I sent to the wrong address' when they never sent it out and so they can sell it for more later, or if they realized they were selling it too cheap. I hate to sound so cynical but I have seen this before.

  • BumblepantsBumblepants DFW/BGMember Posts: 7,291
    It really irks me when a Bricklink seller lists a set as 'complete' and then says 'no minifigs'. Those are contradictory statements, and anytime I see stuff like that I assume they are going to be a dishonest seller and stop looking at their stuff immediately.
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    Thanks for the advice @madforLEGO. The package arrived today and to my surprise it was the 10129 set. I contacted the seller and he realized that he had completely mixed up and attached the wrong tracking numbers to everything. Thank goodness, that would have been really disappointing and annoying to go through a second time.

  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    I think some of you people here are a little unreasonable. People and businesses alike make mistakes. To automatically assume the seller is dishonest or running some kind of scam is a poor attitude to have. What is important, is that the seller takes action and fixes the problem. If the seller cannot fix the problem, a prompt refund is all that should or can be expected. Also consider where you are buying from. You are not buying from Amazon, Walmart, Target or the like. You are buying from Ebay which is mostly made up of people either clearing out their garage or just doing something on the side from their "real" job.

    I just think a little perspective is in order here.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 329
    ^good posting. Mistakes are going to happen, no one is perfect. It's how the mistake is handled that makes the difference.

    As far as people thinking that breaking the seal on a box makes it "used", I don't agree with that. A set is "used" when it's well, used....as in, when it's been played with or displayed, put together, etc.

    You're looking for the "Sealed"/"Unsealed" option, which Ebay does not have.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473
    Thanks for the advice @madforLEGO. The package arrived today and to my surprise it was the 10129 set. I contacted the seller and he realized that he had completely mixed up and attached the wrong tracking numbers to everything. Thank goodness, that would have been really disappointing and annoying to go through a second time.

    Glad to see that you got the item you were supposed to :-)
  • hoyatableshoyatables Northern Virginia, USAMember Posts: 873
    Hah, saw this for a Holiday train on eBay:
    New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item (including handmade items). See the seller's listing for full details.

    Then the seller goes on to say their kid opened it and only opened one bag... Whahuh?
    I am somewhat sympathetic on that one. For me, if I were looking for a "new" set and saw that disclaimer (provided it was clearly stated in the description), I would still be willing to consider that "new." Some of us look for new sets simply because we want peace of mind, non-worn parts, and so on.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473
    ^----The problem is it is described, by eBay standards, as new. This means UNOPENED.

    By technical standards they should list it as Used and explain that it is barely used, ALMOST new.. not New ALMOST used...

  • scratchdeskscratchdesk Member Posts: 155
    Think I'm part of the @Renny shipping screw up. Sent you a pm in reference to it. I believe I bought from the same seller.
  • RennyRenny USAMember Posts: 1,145
    Hi @scratchdesk, I sent you a message. We actually both did buy from the same seller. I did get my correct item but the tracking number he provided was for another of his auctions.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^^ But it is not "barely used", rather it is "not" used at all.

    There is a market for new parted out sets. No one is going to look under "used" auctions for "new" parted out sets. However, if one was to look for a "used" parted out set they would look under "used" auctions.
  • RedbullgivesuwindRedbullgivesuwind Brickset's Secret HeadquatersMember Posts: 2,051
    Maybe it would be better to have an ebay description of 'new no figures' and 'new with figures' so you can narrow it further. Though almost all sellers tell you in the description if it has them or not.
  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 630
    On some other non LEGO items (toys and games) they currently have a "Packaging" category where you have the option for:
    Original(unopened), Without Packaging, Original (opened), Not Specified.
    Would be easy if they applied this to lego, as its already up and running elsewhere. Anyone had any luck in actually contacting ebay about stuff like this?
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    On Bricklink, there is a "New Incomplete" category which pertains specifically to sets with new parts that have never been used or built with. This is perfectly acceptable for sets that are missing pieces or minifigures. The "New Complete" category means that the set is complete and unused, but not necessarily sealed (box has been opened to check contents, CMF bag has been cut open to identify figure, etc.). Only "New Sealed" refers to brand new sets that are still factory sealed.

    If BL sellers comply with categories (which are outlined pretty clearly by Bricklink), I don't see why buyers should get upset if sets are unsealed or incomplete as long as it is listed as such and anything missing is outlined.

    On Ebay, if a LEGO set is listed as "New" it is defined as a brand new, unused, unopened product. They do have a "New (Other)" category which opened but unused products will fall under. Any unsealed sets or parted out sets should fall under this category. If a set is missing figures or other parts, I do think that the listing title (as well as the description) should reflect that it is an incomplete set.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ but Ebay just doesn't have enough options to cover the normal LEGO conventions. What about minifigures from a set? If one opens a set, pops out the minifigures, never assembles them, and sticks them in a zipper bag, in what universe are those "used" ? they aren't. no one is going to sell them as used - they are brand new. and there are TONS of people who just want to buy new minifigures - they know they aren't coming in a manufacturer sealed box.
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473
    ^^ But it is not "barely used", rather it is "not" used at all.

    There is a market for new parted out sets. No one is going to look under "used" auctions for "new" parted out sets. However, if one was to look for a "used" parted out set they would look under "used" auctions.
    By eBay's Definition (not mine) a new set is classified as unopened in addition to the rest of the guidelines.
  • gmpirategmpirate Member Posts: 1,654
    ^ So your point is what?

    Sellers should post to where it "technically" applies or where they will sell the most product?
  • fyrmedhattfyrmedhatt Member Posts: 128
    edited April 2012
    The above is minor... I'm starting to see more and more postings on Bricklink for items listed as "new", yet the description says "only built once by adult as display model".

    For pete's sake, if it has been built, it isn't new!
    Bricklink has strict definitions of what is new and used, and if it's built once, then it's no longer new, obviously. Report the seller, or if you really want to make the practice stop, hang them out to dry on the Bricklink message boards. They're pretty ruthless about anyone breaking the rules.

  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,837
    Sellers should post to where it "technically" applies or where they will sell the most product?
    Couldn't disagree more. Sellers should list where the policy of which their membership governs states it should.

    I accept that Ebay's policy or definitions need refining, at least something to where Bricklink's are, but for sellers to list goods where they 'believe' they should list it or where they think they will bring in the highest prices would just be downright dishonest in many cases.
  • tk79tk79 Member Posts: 329
    Sure, but until (if ever?) eBay makes it mandatory across the board and actually enforces it to put all sellers on even ground, you won't see the majority of sellers do it.
  • LegoboyLegoboy 100km furtherMember Posts: 8,837
    @tk79 - completely agree with you. I was referring to how all sellers should be listing their goods. But as with most things, it only takes one to stray from the righteous path for it to 'force' everybody else to follow.
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    @dougts - I'm talking specifically about sets. Anytime a set has been opened/unsealed, per Ebay's definition, it is not "New" anymore. It can be sold as "New (Other)". I never said that it was used or should be classified as "Used".

    Minifigures are completely different. If a minifigure is not sold as a sealed set and doesn't have its own packaging, then the sealed/unsealed issue is thrown out the door. As long as it has never been used, then it is still new.

    I know that Ebay definitions are not the best for LEGO, but sellers still have to abide by the definitions that are outlined.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    honestly, the easiest thing for Ebay to do would be just to enable the already-existing New(Other) option for the toy category.
  • jadeirenejadeirene US, CaliforniaMember Posts: 475
    ^ Oh, is the New (Other) category not available for toys? Oops, I guess you can disregard my previous comments. I've seen it for other items before and I just assumed that it would be available for toys as well.
  • dougtsdougts Oregon, USAMember Posts: 4,129
    ^ not sure about all toys, but when I list LEGO, it's not an option
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    I believe the email address to bring up these sorts of issues is < [email protected] >
    Maybe it would be useful for them to hear from the community that their current classifications do not meet the reality of how things are sold.
  • prof1515prof1515 EarthMember Posts: 1,561
    Considering that anything not sealed in a package can not be guaranteed as having never been used, I think eBay's present classification is fine. I don't really trust anyone on eBay as is and have seen the pathetic attempts they've made to dishonestly skirt around existing classifications. (See also: MISB for "Mint In Sealed (Ziploc) Bag")
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    edited May 2012
    So, @prof1515, what about a sealed bag that has been removed from the outer box. New or used?

    Example might be the Toy Story minifigures removed from a larger Toy Story train, or any other set that is being split into subcomponents.
  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,296
    ^ Is that a bag sealed by Lego, or one that has been opened and sealed with sellotape?

    There are so many options, which is why decent photos will always give buyers confidence in what they are buying.
  • AvengerDrAvengerDr Member Posts: 453
    edited May 2012
    There are those who buy a set, strip it of their figs and then sell the remainder on ebay. Some say "unbuilt" or something to that effect. Then there are those who say "only built for the picture". For those who are in good faith: don't do that!. Unbuilt parts stop being new the moment your stick them together for the first time..
  • DaddyDeuceDaddyDeuce Member Posts: 272
    @CCC - for my example question: the original box has been opened and the original bag, sealed by LEGO, has been removed. Is the contents of that unopened bag new or used?

    At the end of the day this is all a gray area. I think you have to just look at the seller's feedback, read their description, and ask yourself if you think the seller is trustworthy and the description accurate for your purposes as a buyer.

  • CCCCCC UKMember Posts: 20,296
    ^ I would call it new. And describe it well, with pictures.

    I don't know how other people buy, but often I ignore the setting of NEW and USED anyway. Simply because many people do not use it correctly anyway. So many people sell CMF as new when they are opened and built. Very few correctly describe these as used.
  • cynthilinacynthilina Member Posts: 188
    Hmmm well it also matter to the purchaser as well. If I were into collecting it I might call it open since it used since the entire set is not factory sealed anymore, including the box. However If I was just going to buy it to build it or piece it out then yeah I could consider it new opened box. But as stated above it needs to be described well. However my question still remains. If your going to sell a Lego set New why would you open the box for it?
  • madforLEGOmadforLEGO Chicagoland USMember Posts: 10,473

    ^--I think you will see a lot of sellers doing this to ensure the set they are selling is what they have (Any set bought in a retail store can be susceptible to tampering-opening that box, taking the contents out, replacing with garbage or random brick from another box, and then resealing the box, so you could not tell it was done)

    Honestly through if you say something is new on eBay, per their existing 'new' description, it cannot be opened at all. It stinks but it is true
  • UKtsumiUKtsumi Member Posts: 630
    One of my pet hates is when you buy a set for say £100 and then pay £15 to post it, and all you get is it wrapped in cheap thin brown paper!

  • cynthilinacynthilina Member Posts: 188
    Thats where the money is at for the sellers, in the shipping.
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