CUUSOO Corner

Redbullgivesuwind

I was thinking more like Buffalo Gals

Wow its amazing where modern music some times steals insperation from I can name at least three songs that have stolen bits from that music song.

Legogeek

Wow its amazing where modern music some times steals insperation from I can name at least three songs that have stolen bits from that music song.

Probably way more than three... the original song is old, REAL old.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Gals

BTW... sorry for getting way off topic.

Redbullgivesuwind

wow it really is alot older.

I spotted Nena Cherry: Buffalo Stance and Eminem: With out me in the song. Ah I miss the 80's.

lulwut

LOL Lego's silly double standards. It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, SW is just as violent. The whole franchise has always revolved around the themes of conflict and death, as is most of their licensed sets are.

The opening in SW EP III where one of the ARC-170 gets blown up, we see what looks like dead clone pilots flailing in space, pretty morbid scene right there. This scene has always been stuck in my head for that reason.

Thezoofox

Modular Western Town on 9849 votes. Hopefully over 10k by morning.

CCC

LOL Lego's silly double standards. It doesn't matter how you want to spin it, SW is just as violent. The whole franchise has always revolved around the themes of conflict and death, as is most of their licensed sets are.

There is a big difference between Star Wars and Shaun of the Dead. Star Wars does involve conflict, with battles between two sides. However, gory detail is not key to the story - the struggle between good and evil is. Very little death is shown, and when it happens, you do not see gory details such as heads split in half or blood everywhere. Shaun of the Dead also involves conflict, with battles between two sides, again between good and bad. Here, the story centres on the killing of zombies. If all scenes of graphic killing are removed, the film would not be watched and would not have its cult status.

lulwut

Less gore makes it okay? I can start counting the number of body parts severed off in SW. Lets not forget the rum bottles they gave us in PotC sets. All Lego has really done to these licensed sets is tone down the sensitivity of "adult material" by nature of what Lego represents.

The only purest form of Lego sets that fit their guidelines as described on CUUSOO are their original lines like City and such.

Redbullgivesuwind

Sorry but I think that arguement fails to stand. By that arguement then lego should either drop all the lines that have violence in such as star wars, castle, lord ot the rings, adventures, poc, the police sets and any other themes. Or allow lego cussoo to produce prositutes, lego terrorists, lego scarface characters, lego blade characters. That just seems a flawed position to argue from. All the lego lines contain fantasy violence. While Star wars is violent its much more violence to robots or faceless thugs. With very little gore or blood.
Which is what the BBFC look at when judging a film. To see how they rate it. The less blood and more fantasy violence that is in the lower the rating the same with lego.

As AFOL we forget that lego is a childs toy. It is always aimed at them much more than us and by lego saying no violence is more about protecting kids from real life violence than violence in general thats where they have to draw the line. And imo iys a good place to draw it.

CCC

Less gore makes it okay? I can start counting the number of body parts severed off in SW. Lets not forget the rum bottles they gave us in PotC sets. All Lego has really done to these licensed sets is tone down the sensitivity of "adult material" by nature of what Lego represents.

The only purest form of Lego sets that fit their guidelines as described on CUUSOO are their original lines like City and such.

Of course it does. When those arms are severed do you get long close ups of blood spurting out? No. Star Wars may have adult oriented themes, but it is a film also aimed at kids. Death is important in life, and needs to be suggested, but not necessary lingered on. Shaun of the Dead is aimed at adults (15+ in UK). The point of the film is gore. Comedy core in this case, but still gore.

It is also more "real" in the sense that it is set on earth, in locations similar to places people actually live in. Kids have access to cricket bats, garden umbrellas, etc which are used for the violence in this film. They do not have access to (real and working) blasters, light sabers, etc.

lulwut

It is also more "real" in the sense that it is set on earth, in locations similar to places people actually live in. Kids have access to cricket bats, garden umbrellas, etc which are used for the violence in this film. They do not have access to (real and working) blasters, light sabers, etc.

Disagree. Did we forget a kid's imagination? I've been battered by lightsaber dowels.

We could argue fantasy violence all we want, but when human parts are flying across the screen, that hits pretty close to home.

But whatever, money talks with TLG.

Redbullgivesuwind

^So lego should drop all violent themes? Or make every thing that wins Cussoo regardless of its content? Because that islogically the only direction you can go with your arguement.

CCC

It is also more "real" in the sense that it is set on earth, in locations similar to places people actually live in. Kids have access to cricket bats, garden umbrellas, etc which are used for the violence in this film. They do not have access to (real and working) blasters, light sabers, etc.

Disagree. Did we forget a kid's imagination? I've been battered by lightsaber dowels.

Kids have hit other people with toy light sabers, swords, sticks, etc since time began. It is just part of being a kid. Yes, they are acting out the film and yes, it may hurt a little, but it is part of growing up. We used to play "guns" and if you were shot you had to lay down and pretend to be dead. That is play acting with toys. I learnt that guns can be used to kill people. But I didn't have access to a real gun. I knew that swords can be used to kill people. I didn't have a real sword.

But showing a kid they can take someone's head off with a cricket bat is a different league. You can do serious damage with a cricket bat / baseball bat and making fun play out of that is wrong, since if repeated it could lead to death. That is why the film is rated 15, and why toys deriving from it should not be marketed to kids.

lulwut

But showing a kid they can take someone's head off with a cricket bat is a different league. You can do serious damage with a cricket bat / baseball bat and making fun play out of that is wrong, since if repeated it could lead to death. That is why the film is rated 15, and why toys deriving from it should not be marketed to kids.

I don't want to argue this any longer, the results are still the same, gore or no gore. A head being chopped is still a head chopped off. At this point the kid is wondering if this is even normal.

TLG making a clear statement and then doing the exact opposite: double standards.

CCC

I don't want to argue this any longer, the results are still the same, gore or no gore. A head being chopped is still a head chopped off. At this point the kid is wondering if this is even normal.

TLG making a clear statement and then doing the exact opposite: double standards.

If you don't want to argue it that's fine, don't. It doesn't make your point correct.

The results are not the same. A child seeing a close up of a head cut off, or cut in half, on which the camera shot lingers for a long time focussing on the gore of the act is more likely to be affected by it than a non-close up shot of dead people in which you do not see the gore of the act.

It is exactly the same with westerns. Seeing an indian killed by a bullet as part of a wide shot, or a cowboy hit by an arrow, then the indian riding off with his scalp is much less damaging to a child than seeing the actual gore of the scalping up close. The result to the story line is the same. The result to the child (or indeed, the adult) seeing it is not.

princedraven

I don't want to argue this any longer

Thank the lord!
(sorry, not aimed at you lulwut, just was getting a tedious argument that was never gonna go anywhere)

lulwut

If you don't want to argue it that's fine, don't. It doesn't make your point correct.

Whatever, you're still spewing the same points that contradicts every word TLG has laid out. If you can't see that, life is must be hard.

andhe

I think the big difference, in TLG's stance as well as film classifications, is the difference between 'real world' and 'fantasy' violence. If you cut the head off an orc/alien, and the blood is black/green then it can have a lower rating than if someone cuts the head off a human and the blood is red. This obviously applies to films set in the 'real world' eg Shaun of the Dead as they contain 'realistic' violence, albeit towards 'fantasy' characters.

The bottom line is that as TLG have themselves stated, their core audience is 6-11 year olds, so even products made for older buyers must still be theme appropriate for that core age. Until they change this policy, we will not see sets Cuusoo or otherwise, based on films/games aimed above this age (eg on a UK 15, US R property).

Getting back on track, this is why I could see TLG approving an idea like the Space Marines project (which I would totally buy), but not a modern war themed equivalent idea.

CCC

Whatever, you're still spewing the same points that contradicts every word TLG has laid out. If you can't see that, life is must be hard.

It does not contradict every word. It is one word - death.

The point is you can play goodies vs baddies, even with guns, without focussing on the act of death. (And in fact, storm troopers were such a bad shot, they rarely resulted in death.) Importantly, on the same line as death, there are the words blood, terrorism, or torture. This (to me), especially the word blood, indicates playing out the act of death. None of the Star Wars sets, or the Castles / Kingdoms, etc come with blood spills. Yes, they have weapons, but the focus is not on death. The point of cuusoo is to suggest ideas that could be made into marketable sets. Lego has made fantasy and historical sets in the past featuring weapons, so obviously considers them safe. There are ideas on cuusoo for new sets containing weapons that are not likely to be removed (eg. Space Rangers), since they fit in with past "safe" ideas. It has not made gore based sets and this suggests that Lego does not consider them safe, or marketable.

Like anything in life, boundaries are slowly pushed back. There were no guns in original Lego sets, but Lego has gradually changed with the market. No doubt if public opinion sways so much that blood and gore becomes the standard plaything for 8 year olds, then they might make sets containing blood.

The statement also says that "Remember, some things are more appropriate for you to build with your own bricks and share online yourself. There are many great ideas out there, but not all make appropriate official LEGO products."

It is clear that Lego is fine with you making models, and for you to display them online, that it would not consider marketing. Cuusoo is not a display area for MOCs, it is for suggesting marketable ideas. If there is something that Lego rules to be not-marketable, it should not be on cuusoo.

Lego are a sensible company. They have placed guidelines and will hopefully apply them with common sense. Life must be hard for anyone without common sense.

cheshirecat

@andhe - although then Indiana Jones would fall foul in exactly the same way as SotD.

The bottom line though is that its up to Lego, their product, their rules - and whilst the double standards issue was somewhat interesting last month it is largely going around in circles.

AvengerDr

On the point of "death". I found it strange that for some aspects, the Clone Wars show seems to be more mature than the movies. In the OT none of the good guys is killed. In the PT only Qui-Gon is killed. On the other hand, in the show clones die all the time and they go as far as showing other clones "checking their pulses". Although they are "just clones" and thus expendable, they are certainly given more background than in the movies..

andhe

@andhe - although then Indiana Jones would fall foul in exactly the same way as SotD.

Indiana Jones, whatever you think of the actual film content, was rated PG and aimed at TLGs core audience, and from what I can remember, it's gore/violence is mainly in a fantastical setting (not many kids have access to an ark of the covenant for face melting purposes), whereas SOTD was a 15. My main point was the actual film rating, regardless of whether people think the film content is appropriate for that age.

LostInTranslation

Suggestion - could we maybe have two different Cuusoo threads? One for debating the new guidelines and one for pointing out and discussing cool designs on the site?

andhe

^lol. Says the Queen of off-topics :P I think it just shows that getting 10,00 AFOLs onboard one idea is going to be near impossible!

LostInTranslation

^ I know, I know.
But the debate seems to be going round in circles and any links to great projects kinda get buried.

cheshirecat

Although, this says otherwise....



But things are now moving, before it was fantasy characters dying without gore (SW) then it was fantasy characters dying, now its humans dying (in a fantasy setting, although I'ld disagree about that - especially in the eyes of children) and lets be honest, from Raiders to Crystal Skull, many of the deaths are particularly unpleasant and involve (slightly extreme) versions of real life dangers - snakes, insects etc.

You also can't rely on film classifications - Europe and the US are different, as has been said particularly between US and northern Europe with their attitude to sexual content. For those of us in the UK as well, we are also talking about just 3 years difference between some IJ,LotR, SW films and SotD.

What I think we can all agree on is that Lego's licensed sets have made their moral position harder to define and a little murkier. But SW has probably saved the brand so a good swap all in all.

cheshirecat

Back on topic, just 110 votes left for Western Modular. But then there's nothing with a reasonable chance (did I read somewhere that Tachikoma wasn't suitable?) until the sand crawler with 4000.

I did wonder if all star wars sets would be a no-no anyway as it might interfere with the license, that may, define fairly strictly the number of sets released per year and the nature of those sets (proportion OT, PT and CW?)

I would love some James Bond projects to vote for, have thought about trying some myself - but its beyond my ability (particularly the curvy cars like the DB4) and many of the locations are just to big. I did think, the vault at Fort Knox with Odd Job, Goldfinger and a Sean James Bond might work, and of course a Pussy Galore.

CCC

I would love some James Bond projects to vote for, have thought about trying some myself - but its beyond my ability (particularly the curvy cars like the DB4) and many of the locations are just to big. I did think, the vault at Fort Knox with Odd Job, Goldfinger and a Sean James Bond might work, and of course a Pussy Galore.

I don't think size of location matters. Just look at the LOTR sets! Some of those locations were rather large in the film but slightly more manageable in the Lego sets.

princedraven

Can someone clue me in on what this Tachikoma is?
Did a quick google search and it seemed to link to Ghost in the Shell which had images of naked women with wires or pipes coming out of her and big guns.
Again I have no real knowledge so dont want to jump to any conclusions without some real info....

cheshirecat

^ She certainly does have 'big guns' ... ;)

Crowkillers

What I think we can all agree on is that Lego's licensed sets have made their moral position harder to define and a little murkier. But SW has probably saved the brand so a good swap all in all.

When you are alligned with a Billion Dollar Franchise and you know that it is going to generate Huge Dollars for you, it is easier to look the other way and let a few "Guideline Standards" go unnoticed...

However, when taking a chance on something much much smaller, it's probably not worth the risk if any questionable elements are involved... And of course if you don't feel that a project is worth your time or money, then you can always use these "Guidelines" as an politically correct excuse for not wanting to partake in a project...

Everyone can argue back and forth about what is morally right and wrong and compare Star Wars to Space Balls, but in the end it's all about what is going to generate revenue and I am pretty sure that is something that Lego looks at first...

ninjagolightly

I just watched a video review of the MF hearse set, and Mrs Vampyre's face print has her mouth dripping blood.
You can see why a lot of people are having trouble buying this party line that "LEGO doesn't have a double standard," "it's apples and oranges." etc.
And that is something they are bending to a license... it's an original theme, they chose of their own free will to make it that way.
And it doesn't bother me, even the double standard doesn't bother me, what bothers me is the repeated insistence of some people that there isn't a double standard. It's like talking to Apple fans, no matter how great the actual product might be, when there are problems, there are hardcore fans who refuse to acknowledge that there could possibly be any flaw or shortcoming. There are clearly some people like that Vis a vis TLG around here.

Redbullgivesuwind

I just watched a video review of the MF hearse set, and Mrs Vampyre's face print has her mouth dripping blood.

I can see why they would have that. It would look odd if the vampire was chewing a carrot :-D.

Nobody has denied that there isnt violence in Lego. But it is fantasy violence its not realistic which is what lego have the objection to. Hell even Lego admit that they realise they have moved away from the no violence policy. But if you look at the posting all the way back up there it says realistic violence is not allowed. Because in my mind, and in Legos mind there is the world of diffrence between having Obi Wan take out some battle droids and a UN soldier beating the hell out of an Afgan person. Which is where, to be honest, we could end up if lego didnt have these rules.

Plus I will keep saying this until im blue in the face or told to be quiet the only logical place that this arguement is going to take us is to a) lego remove all violent themes produce multi coloured bricks and buildings again and thats it. Or b) make everything that wins cussoo regardless of whether the content is okay because they dont want to be accused of being hypocrits and stop being a good company and become every fanboys drooling dream maker and go out of buisness.

graphite

Which is where, to be honest, we could end up if lego didnt have these rules.

There is nothing that says that every idea would get made if they didn't have rules. I don't see any reason why LEGO's policy can't just be "We'll make it if we want to" and not put all these questionable limitations on it. After all it is their product and if they don't feel something fits what they want to sell then they don't have to make it. The support limit should just be the point at which they'll even consider it. It isn't like it would take much time to discard ones that make it to 10k that they know they don't want to make.

Hey guys look the "Whores of Babylon" Cuusoo got turned down after hitting 10k and the reason was "This doesnt fit the type of product we want to sell". That is justification enough for me. Their company their decision.

andhe

Only 10 votes left for the western town to hit 10k...

graphite

Whoever you are that is waiting hoping to be #10000 just vote already!!

timinchicago

Just reached 10,000!

KernelPanic

Since when are zombies realistic? Doesn't that put them in the "fantasy violence" category like a vampire with blood dripping from its mouth.

On another note, welcome Crowkillers! Lover your site. I would love Lego to do a UCS Technic RC Supercar from your designs with PF for drivetrain, steering, and transmission.

Congrats, Western Town!

Redbullgivesuwind

Hey guys look the "Whores of Babylon" Cuusoo got turned down after hitting 10k and the reason was "This doesnt fit the type of product we want to sell". That is justification enough for me. Their company their decision.

Or people could have looked at the rules about entries, not submitted and not got peoples hopes up in the first place. Which seems alot easier and doesnt open lego to loads of flack for not taking an idea.

Modeltrainman

Wow. I don't undrstand. Lots of votes for Back to the Future, ships and what not, and yet no classic Disney or Pixar projects or trains get that many votes? It's all vampires, zombie, cowboys or pirates these days, huh? Sad.

richo

^ I think to get a lot of votes you either need a 'niche' theme with a hardcore following, such as minecraft, or heavy sponsorship from the Lego community, such as the Modular Western build.

Modeltrainman

I just figured evryone loved LEGO's trains though. There are projects for EN add on cars. The intenet wants those, so why aren't there more votes?

Steve_J_OM

It'll be interesting what happens with the modular Western town now. Even if it goes ahead, we probably can't call it a modular town just yet; presumably TLG would go ahead with the first building, and not make a decision on future sets until they saw how well it did.

CCC

@Modeltrainman - EN add on cars would never be made - it's a guaranteed failure. EN is no longer sold officially, so you are only marketing towards a small group of people that have an existing model.

@Steve_J_OM - I agree. This is cuusoo's make or break moment. If nothing happens with the Western idea now (even if it is one building to start), cuusoo is pointless and, in my view, dead.

Bustin

Non licensed projects are taking so long because the traditional Lego community cannot stop arguing about Lego guidelines to get on their and vote. ;)

So until Brickset, EuroBricks and all those other large Lego AFOL networks get on the same page and accept that Cuusoo is what it is the only things that are going to be regularly reviewed are large fanbased licenses.

Congrats to the Western, I've been a supporter since like there were 400 supporters, the promotion from Brickset and EuroBricks was a definite push.

cheshirecat

At its heart a project that doesnt have a licensed fanbase to fall back on needs to be different from what lego produce already or have done in the recent past, exciting and relate to something that people are passionately interested in.

An extra EN carriage sounds so incredibly dull im not surprised it isn't doing well. Zombies are massive, look st the price of the cmf. Its popular, people love them and until the MF range comes out Lego havn't done them. Similarly the western theme has been ignored by lego for a while.

The exo suit is a beautiful model with an incredible design but beyond that doesnt get me excited. Will enough people vote for something purely for the aesthetic?

drdavewatford

The exo suit is a beautiful model with an incredible design but beyond that doesnt get me excited. Will enough people vote for something purely for the aesthetic?

Well, maybe all those people who buy Star Wars UCS sets, for starters..... If those sets aren't about aesthetics above all else then I don't know what is.

cheshirecat

More importantly they are also star wars. I'm trying to think of one that has sold really well in lego shops.

cheshirecat

HHas anyone noticed the western is already listed as s cuusoo product rather than in review. Just a setting that hasn't been manually switched?

drdavewatford

Well, I guess you could make a fairly easy argument for sets such as Tower Bridge, Eiffel Tower and Taj Mahal being primarily about aesthetics, as you could about any of the Architecture theme. In respect of sales, however, such sets are targeted at adults and hence the sales volumes will be modest compared with Ninjago etc.

richo

Whilst I dont really like the Western modular (not a fan of the period with the guns, alcohol, prostitution etc), the UCS Sandcrawler the guy did is simply incredible.

Drawing on a point made earlier, I agree a lot of UCS models are actually just very attractive ornaments once built (latest SSD is the biggest example yet), but the beauty of that Sandcrawler MOC is that it would also be an incredible playset. I can just envisage my daughter (and me) pulling droids in and out of the big workshop.